Einstein's Theory of Relativity Under Microscope

[BANFAN]

"Faster than Light" Particles Threaten Einstein

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CERN, also home to the Large Hadron Collider that is probing how the universe began and developed, said measurements over three years had shown invisible neutrino particles covering the 730 km to a laboratory in Italy 60 nanoseconds -- or 60 billionths of a second -- faster than light.

That reading could show that Albert Einstein, father of modern physics, was wrong when he laid down in his 1905 theory of special relativity that the speed of light was a "cosmic constant", and nothing could go faster.

CORNERSTONE OF SCIENCE

That principle, and Einstein's later general relativity theory, which expanded it into wider fields of physics, have been cornerstones of scientific views of the cosmos and how it works ever since.

The new finding was recorded when 15,000 neutrino beams were pumped over three years from CERN to an underground Italian laboratory at Gran Sasso near Rome.

Physicists on the experiment, called OPERA after the initials of its formal scientific title, say they had checked and rechecked over many months anything that could have produced a misreading before announcing what they had found.

Professor Jenny Thomas, who works on neutrinos at Fermilab, the U.S. physics research centre near Chicago, commented: "The impact of this measurement, were it to be correct, would be huge."

OPERA's Dario Auterio, presenting the findings to a packed and clearly sceptical auditorium at CERN on Friday, said they were of "high statistical accuracy" and could not be explained by extraneous effects such as seismic tremors or moon phases.

He declined to get into theoretical interpretations and told his audience of largely CERN scientists that other research centres -- Fermilab and probably Japan's T2K neutrino research team -- must now take up the baton.

"In science, you can never be sure. Something odd can always happen, however careful you are," said CERN spokesman James Gillies. "You've always got to get an independent result from someone else before you can say it's a discovery."

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http://www.bdnews24.com/details.php?id=206934&cid=8
http://arxiv.org/abs/1109.4897

Well, it may take a long time to be sure and i'm not really sure how much of impact that will make in the field of future scientific research & achievements of mankind, if it really is proven and accepted some time. But one thing will be established once more; There will always be more to what we think to be absolute / Ultimate knowledge.

The creator knows all of it, who created this universe. We are just reading his creation to learn... & it never ends. Thanks to the scientists of all time; for unveiling the knowledge of His creation to the laymans like me ..

[Zeeshan]

Originally Posted by BANFAN
"Faster than Light" Particles Threaten Einstein


Well, it may take a long time to be sure and i'm not really sure how much of impact that will make in the field of future scientific research & achievements of mankind, if it really is proven and accepted some time. But one thing will be established once more; There will always be more to what we think to be absolute / Ultimate knowledge.

The creator knows all of it, who created this universe. We are just reading his creation to learn... & it never ends. Thanks to the scientists of all time; for unveiling the knowledge of His creation to the laymans like me ..

[shaad]

From XKCD, which encapsulates my view perfectly:

[nakedzero]

Tell me if I'm wrong, I'm little confused about this. Einstein never said light is the fastest, conclusively. He only theorized that if you travel twice as fast as light, you can travel time.

[Zunaid]

Originally Posted by nakedzero
Tell me if I'm wrong, I'm little confused about this. Einstein never said light is the fastest, conclusively. He only theorized that if you travel twice as fast as light, you can travel time.

No. no. no.

No particle that has rest mass can be accelerated to the speed of light.

The special theory postulates that the speed of light is an universal constant and it remains the same no matter what speed an observer is traveling. Space and time are relative according to the postulate. Observers traveling at different speeds will witness events differently (where time and distance becomes altered depending on the speed at which the observers are traveling). His theory also gives the formula of time dilation as one approaches the speed of light.

The most counter-intuitive implication of his special theory is that the duration of time interval between two events as observed by different individuals is not equal if their relative speeds are not equal.

Special Theory + other laws of physics can be used to prove the quivalency of mass and energy vi the well-known formula E = MC^2 (Do note that this formula is NOT his Special Theory but is explained and derive from it).

[Ashfaq]

The title is misleading. Relativity is as ironclad as gravity and just as evident too. This new observation, if it's proven to be correct, won't change the fact that space and time are relativistic. It just means we open a new frontier.

Who knows, we may finally get that warp driver.

[nakedzero]

Thanks Doc.

[BANFAN]

Originally Posted by Ashfaq
The title is misleading. Relativity is as ironclad as gravity and just as evident too. This new observation, if it's proven to be correct, won't change the fact that space and time are relativistic. It just means we open a new frontier.

Who knows, we may finally get that warp driver.

SCEPTICISM VOICED

Many leading scientists were sceptical that Einstein's theories would have to be abandoned.

Einstein's theory has been tested thousands of times over the past 106 years and only recently have there been slight indications that the behaviour of some elementary particles of matter might not fit into it.

It's not misleading at all. Above Quotes are from the article and the sceptics are scientists.

I'm sure you have problem in understanding the theories. Neither I claim to know it that much. But you are trying to understand the theory of relativity linguistically, while it needs to be understood scientifically. Please read the link bellow, might help.

[BD_2015]

Originally Posted by BANFAN
"Faster than Light" Particles Threaten Einstein


Well, it may take a long time to be sure and i'm not really sure how much of impact that will make in the field of future scientific research & achievements of mankind, if it really is proven and accepted some time. But one thing will be established once more; There will always be more to what we think to be absolute / Ultimate knowledge.

The creator knows all of it, who created this universe. We are just reading his creation to learn... & it never ends. Thanks to the scientists of all time; for unveiling the knowledge of His creation to the laymans like me ..

Well said brother.

[cluster11]

From what I understand in the article (and related links) this was performed in particle accelerator at a sub-atomic level anyways. Relativity is proven many many times over in the macro world and it's clash with Quantum Mechanics in the sub-atomic level is well known. So I'm not sure that it proves anything wrong, rather may shed lights on newer findings. Experiments being conducted at the LHC will shade light on the Higgs Boson's existence or lack of it. This can impact the Standard Model. This news about neutrinos FTL travel maybe another twist in the mix.

[al Furqaan]

Originally Posted by cluster11
From what I understand in the article (and related links) this was performed in particle accelerator at a sub-atomic level anyways. Relativity is proven many many times over in the macro world and it's clash with Quantum Mechanics in the sub-atomic level is well known. So I'm not sure that it proves anything wrong, rather may shed lights on newer findings. Experiments being conducted at the LHC will shade light on the Higgs Boson's existence or lack of it. This can impact the Standard Model. This news about neutrinos FTL travel maybe another twist in the mix.

the accelerator is itself is in the macro world, not sub atomic...it would be impossible for us to build an accelerator that incredibly tiny. the particle also has a non zero mass, on the surface, at least to a novice like myself it seems impossible for it to travel faster than light, or even at light speed as Doc pointed out above.

maybe the answer is simply instrument error?

[Severus]

I don't think that there will be a major problem. According to relativity theory, if something goes faster than light its mass shall become an imaginary number. But we already use imaginary numbers in plenty of real life situations, for example electricity.

Posted via BC Mobile Edition

[cluster11]

Yeah the accelerator of course is in the macro world :-) and LHC is the most powerful one ever built. What I was referring to is that in particle accelerators lot of experiments are carried out in sub-atomic level and relativity doesn't hold up once we get into worlds smaller than atoms. For example gravity is not explained at that level (there is hypothesis about graviton but it's existence is not proven) . Conversely, Quantum mechanics explains most thing sub-atomic but fails in the macro world. So while 'General Relativity' and 'Quantum Mechanics' are solidly proven theories in macro and sub-atomic world respectively it's not true vice-versa. What I think has not been observed so far is this FTL phenomenon in sub-atomic world. I have no clue how that can happen actually. It defies logic, but so does quantum teleportation !

Originally Posted by al Furqaan
the accelerator is itself is in the macro world, not sub atomic...it would be impossible for us to build an accelerator that incredibly tiny. the particle also has a non zero mass, on the surface, at least to a novice like myself it seems impossible for it to travel faster than light, or even at light speed as Doc pointed out above.

maybe the answer is simply instrument error?

[Rabz]

Does this mean that we, the Earthling, can colonize the Diamond Planet which is about 4000 light years away from Planet Earth ??

I call the first dibs then.

[bujhee kom]

But what uis the consequence of this find, this microscope...are we in any danger.....is the microscope now NOT working? hwat is the problem?

[Zeeshan]

Originally Posted by bujhee kom
But what uis the consequence of this find, this microscope...are we in any danger.....is the microscope now NOT working? hwat is the problem?

microscope is ok....problem is with the size

[NoName]

Well it was a theory, over the years theories have always been subjected to improvement or just scraped.

[Blah]

Faster-Than-Light Neutrino Puzzle Claimed Solved by Special Relativity

http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/27260/

[Zeeshan]

blah crusade continues...