Biggest Disappointment - Shane Jurgensen and Jason Swift

[Naimul_Hd]

Once our players will start performing well (similar to Asia Cup performance), all will look rosy again !

[mehedi]

had to post this video as someone said our pace bowlers did not contribute much in matches that we won during Ian Pont's tenure as national team's bowling coach



thank you Ian

[Ajfar]

Originally Posted by Ian Pont

I don't mind you trying to lessen the record by attempting to point out who the opponents are but the bottom lime is a 71% win rate is what fans care about

It seems with some so called 'fans' you cannot win. If we had lost all those 14 matches, I would have been BHUA. But we win 10, which is the greatest set of results in BD history, and that's not amazing.

If the strength of the opposition does not matter than that is not the greatest set of results in BD cricket history. The greatest set of result in BD history was from October 13, 2006 to March 25, 2007. Leading up to the WC 2007 to the end of the group stages of WC 2007. We won 15 out of 17 games in that time frame and that puts the winning percentage at 88%.

[mufi_02]

Originally Posted by Ian Pont
It seems with some so called 'fans' you cannot win. If we had lost all those 14 matches, I would have been BHUA

Now, please don't take my stats and argument personally. There is no doubt you have more cricket knowledge than me. But when it comes to being a fan of BD cricket, I think now I have to learn the definition of fans, true fans, so called fans from you. Your implicit accusation of calling some of us so called fans isn't really appreciated.

Originally Posted by Ian Pont

PS... you missed the GREATEST win against England at Chittagong. I hope that wasn't deliberate but simply in your desperation to put the best team results down

I also didn't mention 58,78, and the embarrassment against India, narrow escape against IRE in that post as well. Bhai, I have no desperation to put down the achievement of my team.

Originally Posted by Ian Pont
but before my arrival, Bangladesh had lost 27 out of 29 games. In my time there, they won 10 out of 14. At the end of 2010, Bangladesh had won 7 out of 8 matches (including the Banglawash) which was 2nd only to India in results at that time across 8 matches.

Which isn't true, as I explained it here

Originally Posted by mufi_02
I don't know if you referring to ODIs by saying we lost 27 out of 29 games before your arrival (Sep 2010). We should only take ODIs as standard here because you weren't with us for any Test matches.

Our ODI record (Jul 2009 – Sep 2010)
Played – 30
Won - 14

Originally Posted by Ian Pont
greatest set of results in BD history,

Originally Posted by Rabz
Thought they weren't that big of a disappointment when we reached the Asia Cup final, which is unarguably our biggest success so far.

Originally Posted by Ajfar
If the strength of the opposition does not matter than that is not the greatest set of results in BD cricket history. The greatest set of result in BD history was from October 13, 2006 to March 25, 2007. Leading up to the WC 2007 to the end of the group stages of WC 2007. We won 15 out of 17 games in that time frame and that puts the winning percentage at 88%.

Originally Posted by Ian Pont
I hate to repeat statistics at you

I hate to repeat statistic to you as well.

Also, if opposition also don't matter, then by W/L ratio our we also had another better period.

From Jan 2009 - Aug 2009
ODIs played - 13 ; Won - 11 ; Ratio - 85%
Our first overseas Test Series win also occured during this period

So who cares about opponents, both by ratio and significance this period was better than yours.

Originally Posted by Ian Pont

How short a memory some people have...

Your accusation of calling some so called fans and memory problems is really interesting. I never took any personal attack to you but that didn't stop you. In fact, if you go back you will see many times I said you and Julien are good coaches. I merely presented some statistics and you came with 'so called fans' and 'memory problems'.

[BrianLara7]

And what great work have Ian pont and Julien fountain done since they left? No offense but for all their greatness, Ian pont hasn't even been hired by any test team and Julien fountain hasn't really done anything for Pakistan. Pakistan still has arguable the worst fielding team among all in top 8. Jergunsen and Swift are even worse, we need to hire coaches who have good track record as being coaches of test teams and that shouldnt be a problem (Bcb has enough money).

[Ian Pont]

Originally Posted by BrianLara7
And what great work have Ian pont and Julien fountain done since they left? No offense but for all their greatness, Ian pont hasn't even been hired by any test team and Julien fountain hasn't really done anything for Pakistan. Pakistan still has arguable the worst fielding team among all in top 8. Jergunsen and Swift are even worse, we need to hire coaches who have good track record as being coaches of test teams and that shouldnt be a problem (Bcb has enough money).

Yeah very true.

No International team is employing me at the moment, which just proves how bhua I am as a coach. You are absolutely correct.

Dennis Lillee is also a really crappy coach by the same measurement, as is Glenn McGrath, Craig McDermott, Waqar Younis, Wasim Akram, Michael Bevan, Tom Moody, TA Sekar, Darren Lehmann plus hundreds of other coaches like me who have project work, short term contracts and private coaching commitments developing talent elsewhere.

By the same token then David Sekar, Joe Dawes, Mohammed Akram, Ottis Gibson, Champaka Ramanayake are the very FINEST bowling coaches in the world because they hold national posts?

Coaches often apply for roles because they wish to find out how much money is on offer. Others apply to get their name known to those boards whether they get shortlisted or not.

This sort of post above really winds me up as it shows little understanding of what makes a good coach or not.

[Ian Pont]

mufi_02... I stand corrected.

My tenure with the national team is the second best win record in the history of Bangladesh Cricket.

I will settle for that - end of discussion :-)

[BrianLara7]

Originally Posted by Ian Pont
Yeah very true.

No International team is employing me at the moment, which just proves how bhua I am as a coach. You are absolutely correct.

Dennis Lillee is also a really crappy coach by the same measurement, as is Glenn McGrath, Craig McDermott, Waqar Younis, Wasim Akram, Michael Bevan, Tom Moody, TA Sekar, Darren Lehmann plus hundreds of other coaches like me who have project work, short term contracts and private coaching commitments developing talent elsewhere.

Coaches often apply for roles because they wish to find out how much money is on offer. Others apply to get their name known to those boards whether they get shortlisted or not.

This sort of post above really winds me up as it shows little understanding of what makes a good coach or not.

How about the fact that likes of Moody, Mcdermott, Waqar have all been succesful coaches for TOP TEAMS before? It's not because of their lack of credentials as coach of test teams that they don't have a coaching job currently. Some of the other guys don't really have any record as coaching top national teams so I don't think it shows anything really (great player doesn't mean great coach). I have just posted my opinion, you don't need to feel offended by it.

[Ian Pont]

Originally Posted by BrianLara7
How about the fact that likes of Moody, Mcdermott, Waqar have all been succesful coaches for TOP TEAMS before? It's not because of their lack of credentials as coach of test teams that they don't have a coaching job currently. Some of the other guys don't really have any record as coaching top national teams so I don't think it shows anything really (great player doesn't mean great coach). I have just posted my opinion, you don't need to feel offended by it.

HMMM let me see what I shouldn't feel offended by:

"what great work have Ian pont and Julien fountain done since they left? No offense but for all their greatness, Ian pont hasn't even been hired by any test team"

You are implying I am not a good coach bhai because I am not with a national team and my work is poor because of that. You don't even know me dost so please be very careful about what you say.

This is not opinion based on any fact. I don't criticise what you do in your life as not being very good. In fact I don't care. But I do have to defend myself against such crappy comments that attack my credibility.

Most friends tell me I shouldn't bother responding to such tripe, but I cannot let you get away with saying what you said.

At least mufi_02 had the decency to argue his point (somewhat laboriously but nonetheless with some sense).

[Matribhasha]

I want to keep it simple here. I feel that Safiul Islam's bowling in the WC was the reason behind the debacle. And this can be tied to Ian Pont. We basically gave up the game within the first 3 overs.

But clearly, all else seemed to be good when they were here to help. The vibe was good. We had no fast bowlers, but they seemed to be getting some success with Rubel and Shafiul. Fans were optimistic with their future (the 2 bowlers). As a unit they did gel well.

And the same thing can be said about Julian.

I think Ian has many holes in his conversations here. But they have been by any measure, the best deputy coaches we have had. If I had a pocket full of money (and more), I would like to have asked them back for 18 months, for their help, under some general agreements though.

[Ian Pont]

Originally Posted by Matribhasha
I want to keep it simple here. I feel that Safiul Islam's bowling in the WC was the reason behind the debacle. And this can be tied to Ian Pont. We basically gave up the game within the first 3 overs.

But clearly, all else seemed to be good when they were here to help. The vibe was good. We had no fast bowlers, but they seemed to be getting some success with Rubel and Shafiul. Fans were optimistic with their future (the 2 bowlers). As a unit they did gel well.

And the same thing can be said about Julian.

I think Ian has many holes in his conversations here. But they have been by any measure, the best deputy coaches we have had. If I had a pocket full of money (and more), I would like to have asked them back for 18 months, for their help, under some general agreements though.

Thanks for the partial vote of confidence.. but just one thing....

Just sometimes, how about Shafiul Islam being responsible for his own performance?

[mufi_02]

Originally Posted by Ian Pont

I will settle for that - end of discussion :-)

Yes, lets call it end of discussion

Originally Posted by Ian Pont

At least mufi_02 had the decency to argue his point (somewhat laboriously but nonetheless with some sense).

I guess, thanks. Yes I hope I made some sense. You are a good coach and yes there was some improvemnt in Shafiul and most in Rubel under your tenure.

[SS]

Jogra fesad koira ki luv ase....ignore korlei to hoi...Hope Mods steps in...

[NoName]

How does one forget how to catch a ball, just cause they have a different coach.

[Zeeshan]

Originally Posted by SS
Jogra fesad koira ki luv ase....ignore korlei to hoi...Hope Mods steps in...

shetai. I was thinking hard: If Ian posts before the lock, would it be 'Ian before the lock?'

[meazz1]

We all are are entitled to our openion and here's mine. The fact is, during Pont's tenure we had seen better cricket from the boys which has been going downhill ever since he left. it could be simpley that the boys were more confident having Ian around which is a sure miss right now.

[Dilscoop]

^ Yup, if you look at the pic from pre WC11, you will notice how happy Rubel and Shafiul looked around Ian.

[BengaliPagol]

Whats with this arguing about when we were good at bowling and win/ratio and disndat. Were are a crap team and the truth is if we dont get a really good specialist coach particularly for pace bowling we are going to get even worse...

[reyme]

All I want to say, regardless of the W/L ratio, Ian, Julien, Sujan, Siddons was the best set of coaches we have had till now. Ian and Julien made immediate impact, Siddons was doing good with batting (but he lacks head coaching quality)...and Sujan definitely helped a lot by bringing the team together. Sujan was the architect for awesome results in WI, our first whitewash series. The team was playing amazing as a unit. Now sure we were disappointing in the world cup 2011...but we still played as complete team!

And today, that same old team spirit is just not there...with the very same set of players. What's the difference? Simple: a new set of coaches, the one who have apparently no control over this team, no solid gameplan in any games, terrible performance in all 3 departments. These might be good coaches, but they won't work out for a team like ours. We needs more hands on coaches.

[Isnaad]

I hope Shane Jurgensen and Jason Swift see this thread and step up soon. They are still our bowling & fielding coaches and yes they have had a bad tour. I'm waiting eagerly to see 1 more series. Looking back would only be a solution if Ian Pont and Julien Fountain had any chance of coming back and/or if BCB would reconsider them again. None of that is happening in the near future.
...
Another thing, while you all are jumping into the wagon of criticism of SJ, one has to take into consideration the fact that our 2nd best bowler is injured and hasn't had a go for a pretty long time now. Under SJ's tenure, he has done pretty well too. With such a shallow pipeline, it is really hard to gel a bowling attack with the likes of Rubel being injured. Spare a thought too because our pace bowling was not bad at all during the Asia cup that too with Rubel injured.
...
As for Jason Swift, I don't know what he is doing. Fielding has really been poor recently.

[BengaliPagol]

Maybe you cant just vent your frustration on the coaches. The coaches might teach them everything their is in training but on the field the players cant execute. If thats the case then its not the coaches fault.

[Ian Pont]

Originally Posted by Isnaad
...
Another thing, while you all are jumping into the wagon of criticism of SJ, one has to take into consideration the fact that our 2nd best bowler is injured and hasn't had a go for a pretty long time now. Under SJ's tenure, he has done pretty well too. With such a shallow pipeline, it is really hard to gel a bowling attack with the likes of Rubel being injured. Spare a thought too because our pace bowling was not bad at all during the Asia cup that too with Rubel injured.

It's a good point. Without making excuses for anyone it is hard if you are missing a bowler like Rubel as the pipeline is so small behind him. I can recall fans saying Rubel was wayward and not effective when I arrived in the role, so we shouldn't forget that not everyone is a fan of Rubel. I love the guy... as I do Nazmul, who has been so poorly treated by successive selection policies.

I recall being told Mash was our best bowler yet we Banglawashed the Kiwis without him and this is where I feel Shafiul and Rubel gained genuine confidence and belief for the first time.

The problem comes from clutching at straws when a bowler has a decent match. Instead of backing a fast bowler and working with him to develop his skills, they get discarded almost series by series - yet there is no place they can go be be developed outside of the national team where it isn't the role of a national coach to do hard-nosed development work for players who are meant to be internationals. SJ just wouldn't have the time.

My first viewing of Bangladesh bowlers in 2010 had Mash (carrying a knee injury and lost the captaincy), Shafiul, Rubel, Shahadat, Nazmul, Syed Rasel, Dollar, Robin and some promising net bowlers.

The fast bowling relies now on just Mash and Shafiul.

[Gowza]

this is why an academy would be good, however, there needs to be quality coaching in the domestic tournaments as well and there also needs to be good coaches for the age group teams.

[jeesh]

Anyone noticed Sri Lanka's overall fielding in WC T20. Its been exceptional. Probably the best amongst the 4 subcontinental teams. Guess who is their fielding coach? A guy called Ruwan Kalpage who was at one point our academy coach, and if i am not mistaken fielding coach for a short while.

My point is sometimes even with the best coaches we wont see improvement, unless and until the players have the intent to learn and improve. I bet none of you would want Kalpage as our fielding coach or Ramanayake (Again) as our bowling coach. But see how disciplined Sri Lanka's pace attack is. Even their all rounders have more skill, variety and consistency than our front line bowlers.

So while i am not praising or supporting SJ and JS, all i am saying sometimes it is very easy to blame coaches and make them scapegoats. But are our guys working hard enough or learning, or are they even interested? A couple of days ago there was an interview of A Team coach Stuart Barnes who also made the same point. Guys have plenty of talent and ability but they just dont seem to be interested to learn and grow-they seem happy with 50's and 60's. They cannot become world class cricketers if they dont have the desire and ambition.

[Gowza]

we need more shakib's, nasir's and mushy's. players who want to work and want to improve, i believe that rubel is one that has a strong desire to improve, his results and improvement suggest that. it's a real shame, some good talents are going to waste and it doesn't have to be like that, but they have to want it.