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  #1  
Old May 27, 2003, 09:12 AM
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fwullah fwullah is offline
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Default Is there any similarity between Klusener - Pilot?

Smith hits out at Klusener


Klusener has played 48 Tests and 111 one-day internationals
South Africa captain Graeme Smith has described dropped all-rounder Lance Klusener as a disruptive force who can "infect a team".
Klusener was last week left out of the South African squad for the tour of England which begins next month, and was also passed over for a central contract.

"We decided Lance as a team man can only cause hassles and we want to move forward in SA cricket," Smith told a business breakfast in Cape Town.

"To be honest Lance, as fantastic as he is ... can sometimes ruin a team.

"His ability as a cricketer is very good, but his ability as a team man is not very good and he kind of can infect a team and bring down the youth."

Full squad:
South Africa's England tourists
Smith, an injury replacement in the World Cup squad, replaced Shaun Pollock as captain after the hosts failed to reach the second round of the tournament.

After a rain-affected tie in the final match against Sri Lanka, Klusener was widely quoted as asking distraught team-mates what all the fuss was about.

After hearing he had been dropped - but prior to Smith's comments - Klusener said: "I am the way that I am. If personality gets in the way of statistics and performance, then so be it."

"If the powers-that-be want to make decisions like that then so be it. It's their loss."

Klusener added that he had received offers to play in Australia and was also interested in appearing in English county cricket.

South Africa in England:
Full tour itinerary

South Africa take on England and Zimbabwe in the one-day NatWest Series, which begins on 28 June, and then play a five-Test series.

Smith said he was confident his team would perform well in England as South Africa look to win a series there for the first time since readmission to the international game in 1991.

South Africa drew 1-1 in 1994 and were controversially beaten 2-1 in 1998 after a series of umpiring decisions went against them in the deciding Test at Headingley.

"We are determined to go there and win the series - a daunting task when looking at our two previous tours there," Smith added.


Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/2940018.stm
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  #2  
Old May 27, 2003, 09:20 AM
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fwullah fwullah is offline
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If South Africa can leave out Klusener - an over 30 year old match winner with the bat, then we can easily leave out Pilot - a 27 year old keeper who is NOT a match winner - but only a respect earner for Bangladesh.

Personally, it is really disappointing for me to see a batsman who can score 70 runs against an ICC associate team during 1997 in a semifinal match for qualifying for the world cup, and yet he cannot score even a decent regular 20 or 30 runs that he is used to scoring against big teams against another ICC associate team IN THE WORLD CUP, he cannot do it only about 5 or 6 years later.

One would have thought that when a batsman can score 70 runs at a young age of may be 22/23, then he can easily score a decent 20 or 30 runs at the age of 27 with all the experience that he's got. And yet, what did we see? We have experienced CHOROM KHOMOTAR OPOBYABOHAR!
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  #3  
Old May 27, 2003, 11:43 AM
Arnab Arnab is offline
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I seriously don't see the point in Pilot bashing, fwullah. He was the captain for godssakes. Think of the pressure. He was a wicketkeeper as well. Added pressure. Then he has to come to bat at like 30/5 almost all the time and try to salvage Bangladesh as a batsman which is NOT his job exactly. His top order batsmen always failed him. Still more often than not, he scored a decent 20/30/40 while other batters couldn't even reach double figures. He proved his worth many times over. Give him a break.
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  #4  
Old May 27, 2003, 12:00 PM
Sham Sham is offline
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Default I agree

Smith was referring to Klusenar's off field influence. In that sense, he
may be similar to what Pilot has been in the WC. However, as a player, I have no complaints about Pilot. Thank God for him I say. Without him, we would have broken every lowest score record by now.
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  #5  
Old May 27, 2003, 12:13 PM
Pundit Pundit is offline
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With all due respect Fwullah, you seriously need to calibrate your thought process.
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  #6  
Old May 27, 2003, 12:32 PM
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I know. But I still can't get over the sorrows of the world cup.

When will it end?
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  #7  
Old May 27, 2003, 01:49 PM
Ockey Ockey is offline
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Default Re: Pilot

Using Pilot as a scapegoat for all the WC woes makes no sense. Goes without saying that the BD top order let us down. Not to mention the erratic BCB selection of the opening pair. Even if Pilot influenced the performace of certain players it does not explain how the entire batting order could collapse the way it did, especially against a team like Canada. I refuse to believe the Canadian bowling rather than the BD batsmen's complacency that lead to the defeat. But being a BD fan you have to let these things go.



[Edited on 27-5-2003 by Ockey]
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  #8  
Old May 27, 2003, 02:35 PM
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Zobair Zobair is offline
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Default To Sham

Was the allegations against Pilot investigated? If so was a verdict issued? If so has the report been made public? Thank your for your attention!
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  #9  
Old May 27, 2003, 10:05 PM
rafiq rafiq is offline
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Default callibrating the thought process

Fahmida, you know more stats about bangladeshi cricket than I would ever be able to master. However some of your comparisons of performance are so many years apart that there is no real correlation between them. Pilot's innings in 1997 and those in 2003 have an ocean of time and circumstance that separates them. 1997 is not an indicator of what will or should have happened in 2003. As they say in the financial markets, "past performance is not an indicator of future results".
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  #10  
Old May 27, 2003, 11:18 PM
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fwullah fwullah is offline
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I thought it was quite the opposite? That past performance IS an indicator of the future! But its the cricket field that we're talking about and experience should count.

Anyway, all of you are going to have to bear with me because I am not thinking straight now a days. May be I will start thinking straight when Whatmore comes to the scene.

In OB (Organizational Behavior) I read that an organization cannot take a separate person to work for it - like an accountant or a marketing manager - that the organization must take a WHOLE PERSON. There was a case study that if a Mr. X is social but not always serious for his work and that he has a family, doesn't work much overtime etc. etc. And then there's Mr. Y who is not social at all - doesn't have any family and works overtime all the time even during Christmas - then who is the best person for the job. The answer was Mr. X is the best person for the job.

Similarly, Pilot is kinda like Mr. Y who was not behaving the right way with everybody - i.e., we all have been hearing rumours of conflicts between him andothers including the youngsters in the team. Mind you, its a big challenge for the person - Pilot to change his behavior and attitude back to what he had before being the captain, and that people can change.

I guess I am still angry at him for not being straight - for not being honest everytime. There are lots of unanswered questions still to be answered. For example:

1) In Bangladesh, before going to Namibia, Pilot has always been saying that the practice facilities are not good. And also the print media is saying that Pilot was dropped because he was telling these things against the BCB.

And yet, when he went to Namibia, he said exactly the opposite thing - that practice facilities are excellent there. Why this sudden change in saying? I agree that if the practice facilties are that great in Namibia, then he should say it (and so he did), but instead of talking about only the 15-day's limited time in Namibia, he didn't tell about that to the media.

So, who was he trying to fool?

2) I read it in Kriralok that when someone (I am guess it that he was most probably Ashraful) suggested to Pilot to let him open, Pilot had shouted at him for saying that, and yet, we had seen that Ashraful opening against New Zealand and against Kenya.

I guess that the team management (well Pilot and manager Faruque to be exact - because from 1 Holiday report we know that Mohsin Kamal was non-existent in team meetings) had at first thought it was wrong and then understood their mistakes and tried to correct the mistake by taking Ashraful's suggestion.

But why was this suggestion taken so late? It should have happened against West Indies - but in the rain abandoned short innings of Bangladesh, that didn't happen - Rokon and Seejan had opened.

So you see, I am still thinking about all these staffs and trying to figure out what the hell was going wrong. I guess unless we can all hear a proper logical explanation, it will never end for me.
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  #11  
Old May 28, 2003, 01:20 AM
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Orpheus Orpheus is offline
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Default Pilot the Player!

It is obvious that we have a lot of Pilot fans on this board. So it is understandable that many of you are defending Pilot. As much as Fwullah’s denigration of Pilot does not make much sense to some of you, your infatuation with him does not make sense either.
No one has to “calibrate their thought process” here. These are just differences of opinions and they can all indeed be substantiated. “Past performance is not an indicator of future results” may be true in economy sector but it does not completely apply in cricket. We can all dig up past performances of great cricketers to see some sort of patterns but who has time for that? The one man that comes to mind is Tendulkar, whose nonage performance was an indication of a great cricketer in making. So I do not see any reason why past/present performances wouldn’t elevate a cricket fan’s expectation of a player. Think of Ashraful, Kapali, Tapash etc. I think we expect a lot from them. But why? Obviously because they are young and they have few good matches under their belt. So, one would hope that they will mature to a better player. The future maybe dark but unless we find an augur, we should go with past/current performances.

The thing is Pilot improved!! The experience made him an assiduous batsman. We all acknowledge his “contribution” in saving Bangladesh’s face on several occasions. Thus the expectation from this man is higher than from any other top order batsmen. The top order is a gamble for us whereas Pilot is a safe investment.

Now, someone please explicate the term “embarrassment” to me. Which is more embarrassing: Scoring below 77 against a test nation or losing to Canada and Kenya. The latter is more embarrassing to me because I am already inured by Bangladesh’s incompetency against test nations. Your views might differ.

Pilot had no contribution against Canada and Kenya. As a matter of fact, he is one of the main reasons why we lost against Kenya. I think the world would have been much lenient toward us with their censorious remarks had we beaten Kenya because that particular game affected the whole world cup in an ugly way!

It’s because of the aforementioned reasons why I blame Khaled Mashud for tarnishing our image in cricketing world. And NO, he is not the scapegoat – he is one of the biggest goats! – Maybe THE ONE!!

By the way, before some of you take out your calculator – one thing should be said. Scoring highest runs do not make a player hero/important. So Pilot’s 99 runs in the WC are as meaningless as Shahid’s posts. What makes him important is his contribution toward victory. Ever wondered why we value Mashud more than Al-Shahariar or Hannan Sarkar even though the latter two have better averages than our precious captain? It’s because Mashud’s runs were “face-savers”. Besides one of the reasons why Pilot got the highest score is because he played all 6 matches rather than only 2 (ex: HB). Bashar could have been the hero had he played all of them!! But that’s a different topic!

In conclusion: I don’t think Pilot should be replaced but I also don’t think he is indispensable like Sham once mentioned. In fact I don’t give the**** if he never returns!! I am angry at him for the world cup debacle. And it ain’t emotional talk, I have my reasons!!! Pujaa your idol all you want!!

Peace: 30 mins wasted off my life!!!


[Edited on 28-5-2003 by Orpheus]

[Edited on 28-5-2003 by Orpheus]
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  #12  
Old May 28, 2003, 01:52 AM
shahid shahid is offline
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Default Orpheus,

Pilot is a wicket keeper batsmen for BD who can hang his bat around. He is a bit useful batsmen for tests.

I think our loss to Canada was the most embarrasing. The defeat to Kenya was no embarrasment as they had already beaten Sri Lanka earlier and also New Zealand due to forfiet. Over 99% people in the world including BDis believed that BD will lose to Kenya. Scoring 76 is also a big embarrasment. We need to score atleast 150 in the matches against test nations to avoid embarrasment. Also, we have to beat atleast one test nation this year.

Quote:
So Pilot’s 99 runs in the WC are as meaningless as Shahid’s posts.
Orpheus, are my posts meaningless ??? I have made lots of meaningful posts in this board.

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  #13  
Old May 28, 2003, 02:36 AM
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Orpheus Orpheus is offline
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Yes you certainly have. Like the one that you just made now. But your immature posts outnumbers your thoughtful ones. So let's stay focused on the topic and not talk about this. We don't want to make all the threads trash.. do we?

Anyways, You can look at my simile in a bit different way only if you want to. Perhaps Pilot's 99 is not meaningless at all

Back to pilot. You are certainly right, pilot is a useful batsman for tests. Infact he is also useful in ODs as long as BD's top order remains fragile.

And yes ...Kenya may not be embarrassing....like I said ... it all depends on how well you define "embarrasment" or "victory". If to your victory is to pass the lowest score - then Pilot is a hero BUT if your victory is actually getting a victory against weaker opponents .. then Pilot is a Duffer (thanks wisden for that unavoidable word).
You know what's interesting: According to many of us, not getting embarrassed is our victory!!! Anyways, i don't want to confuse you or myself.. laterz
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  #14  
Old May 28, 2003, 02:46 AM
shahid shahid is offline
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Orpheus, this was meaningful.

To me, victory means if we score over 200 in an ODI, take 5 or more wickets of the opposition. We should atleast be able to give test-playing teams a scare. In tests, we should avoid innings defeats. Also beat non-test teams and Zimbabwe in ODIs.
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  #15  
Old May 28, 2003, 03:01 AM
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That's South Africa they can afford to drop Zulu...but BD you can't drop sum1 in the calibre of Pilot
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  #16  
Old May 28, 2003, 05:02 AM
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fwullah fwullah is offline
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As I said earlier (and I am repeating myself) that I am not thinking straight, this is what I actually wanted to say which Orpheus said it first:


Quote:
it all depends on how well you define "embarrasment" or "victory". If to your victory is to pass the lowest score - then Pilot is a hero BUT if your victory is actually getting a victory against weaker opponents .. then Pilot is a Duffer (thanks wisden for that unavoidable word).
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  #17  
Old May 28, 2003, 05:12 AM
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fwullah fwullah is offline
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Default Perfect Reply!


Quote:
Scoring highest runs do not make a player hero/important. So Pilot’s 99 runs in the WC are as meaningless as Shahid’s posts. What makes him important is his contribution toward victory
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  #18  
Old May 28, 2003, 05:26 AM
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fwullah fwullah is offline
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Quote:
That's South Africa they can afford to drop Zulu...but BD you can't drop sum1 in the calibre of Pilot
In that case we will play Pilot only in the matches against Australia-South Africa where there's no chance of winning for Bangladesh whereas we will play Selim against England/Pakistan/India/Sri Lanka for Selim to get experience and we will definitely play Selim against the ICC associates.
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