Kapali scores a 77 (double lucky ;))

[Sham]

Originally posted by AgentSmith


what is talent? what is technique? and what is style? it is easy to mix up one or two of them in any case. but keep in mind that they are 3 completely different thing. u can't be possible sure about telent without performance. what are the visual clues about telent?

Talent is when a batsman can play a world class fast bowler with time to spare ala Ashraful. Style is when a player plays a shot and looks good doing it. What is there to confuse? Take Lara for example, highly talented, highly stylish and brilliant technique. Even when he hits out, his technique is never compromised. What about Mark Waugh? Highly talented, highly stylish, but technique wasn't all that great. He didn't really get to the ball, but his hand eye coordination was superb and boy did he look good batting. Steve Waugh? Fair amount of talent, good technique, but no style. Plenty of grit though. As for Sehwag, I don't think he is stylish (but some might), poor technique but awesome talent! Just because he scores runs doesn't mean he is going to rewrite orthodoxy! His technique is poor, but his hand-eye coordination, his reflexes are so good that his lack of technique doesn't hurt him! Bashar is the same, but to a lesser degree!

So, I don't think there need be any confusion among the different aspects of batting that are visible to us spectators. The one thing thats hard to see is the mental element and that in the end is the difference between a lot of players. Take Tendulkar and Kambli for example! One had it and one didn't! Same with Mark Ramprakash. Excellent talent, good technique, very stylish batsman but lacked mental toughness, so did Hick!

Now to get on to Kapali. Good talent, good technique and very stylish. But, he hasn't performed in a long time. Now we can all come up with a hundred reasons why that might be the case. Maybe poor concentration, lack of mental toughness, complacency, lack of desire, lack of commitment? I don't know. But if you have seen one of his 80s, surely you aren't going to deny that he has talent. That is something I refuse to accept. Have a go at him for not performing, for some poor shot selection in recent times, lack of commitment even, but to say that he doesn't have talent is bunch of crap! Its like saying Hick didn't have talent or Opee didn't have talent!



Edited on, April 6, 2005, 7:34 PM GMT, by Sham.

[shovon13]

agentsmith...i understand the points you are trying to illustrate. but since you haven't watched kapali bat in his prime form, please dont say "we dont need to worry about him anymore". we'll let the selectors decide on that one.

[Sham]

Yeah, I feel for those who haven't seen him bat! What a player. Ashraful apart, I havent seen any other Bangladeshi batsman play world class bowlers with such ease. If some of these guys had had the fortune to see him in action, they would be praying for Kapali to be back in the BD fold making runs rather than hoping that he never comes back!

[Rubu]

Originally posted by shovon13
agentsmith...i understand the points you are trying to illustrate. but since you haven't watched kapali bat in his prime form, please dont say "we dont need to worry about him anymore". we'll let the selectors decide on that one.

i never said i have not seen him bat for crying aloud. i've not seen him on that two rare occations when he got the 80s. but i've seen him bat in several occations including once in naked eyes (4 off 14 balls) against zim.

to add to my previous coments, give me another example of a player getting more chance than kapali in bangladesh or world. it is like that old saying "jar hoila noiye, tar hoina nobboiye" [rough transilation: if u can do it at 9th (age/attempt/try..), u can' do it on 90th.]

who can't prove himself after given so many chances, will never be able to prove. besides that two fluke 80's what have he done to deserve a national cap? only thing he can do is to blocking other players way.

i really find it funny. whats the point of telent style and technique if thats not ever converted to score?

Edited on, April 6, 2005, 8:04 PM GMT, by AgentSmith.

[Beamer]

As Sham said very eloquently I don't need to further elaborate on that point. But anyone who has seen him play, has any cricketing sense and overall has the eye for judging a cricketers stock, won't disagree with the level of talent that Kapali is naturally blessed with. I have said it before and saying it now, that very few people in Bangladesh can play the way he does. It is so unfortunate for him and for us that he hasn't been able to transform that God given ability into meaningful contribution for the team. The selectors do see what he is made off. That is the only reason they kept on picking him series after series hoping he will come around. To be fair with them, they have afforded kapali more chances than anyone else in recent memory, and I am sure very painfully they took the decision to leave him out of the 20 men squad. I hope he continues to do well in NCL, regain his confidence and form, take wkts and do claim his place back in the team. He can be an awsome sight when in full flow unlike that pathetic Rana who some people think is a batsman beacuse of his relatively better avg.

[AsifTheManRahman]

actually those two 80's were not fluke. i watched them, as well as the 50 odd in the same series (his first test match), and a couple of other innings where he scored runs. trust me agent - this guy's got talent. he does have the ability to play world class bowlers with plenty of time in hand. one of his sixes - the one he simply lifted over mid wicket (the ball was roughly around good length and was about waist high) - was one of the best shots i've ever seen: best in terms of the ease with which it was played and the difficulty that any regular batsman would face trying to play that shot. that was just one example. time and again, he has shown hints of greater maturity and ability than anyone else in bangladesh. he is pure, raw, classic talent.

however, like you said, there's no business having him in the team if he isn't performing. his talent is useless if he cannot use it to generate good performances, and i think right now he is going through a really bad patch. he deserved to be dropped from the side, and i wouldn't lose my sleep over a couple of half centuries and decent bowling spells (like the one today) yet. i won't want him back unless he convinces me that he'll not repeat his failures in the international scene. however, i wouldn't say that we're done with him; and yes, i'd rather have the talentless, classless, enough-shots-under-the-belt-less rana in my 16 over kapali under the current circumstances.

Edited on, April 6, 2005, 9:04 PM GMT, by AsifTheManRahman.

[Sham]

Originally posted by AgentSmith

to add to my previous coments, give me another example of a player getting more chance than kapali in bangladesh or world.

Edited on, April 6, 2005, 8:04 PM GMT, by AgentSmith.

Sanath Jayasuriya made his debut for Sri Lanka in the 91/92 season and scored his first hundred in the 95/96 season! And in those 4 years, he had one score above 80. What fools those Sri Lankans, they really should have dropped him for his lack of talent and his one flukey 80 and never picked him again!!

And in case you were wondering, in those 4 years, he took a grand total of 4 test wickets!

[AsifTheManRahman]

much of sri lanka's success has come from playing a fixed 11 on a regular basis, irrespective of the performance of those eleven. this is an excellent tac tic for a developing team. in fact, that's what we're doing now, which makes me hopeful. however, i stand by what i said about kapali's inclusion in the team.

[Rubu]

Sanath jayasuria was considered a spinner at that time and no one expected him have 50+ runs (until dav transformed him).

now, will not this be funny if u drop enamul or nazmul because they are not having any decent runs? compare him with someone who is considered a batsman or even allrounder.

[AsifTheManRahman]

haha agent! sham's gonna have a go at you now! you didn't read his last line!

[Rubu]

He can be an awsome sight when in full flow unlike that pathetic Rana who some people think is a batsman beacuse of his relatively better avg.

u know what, the pathetic rana saves your bottom (and the country's) when your genius kapali create the deep $hit coming before him. yeah, thats the difference. one takes u into trouble and other takes u out of it.

almost from all perspective: rana = 1/kapali.

ok enough with this conversation what will not take us anywhere. just tell me this: if he is such overflowing talent and technique why have not he performed in years after years?

if he has not done that in years, when will he perform?

and if he never perform why are u will to keep him in the team?

Edited on, April 6, 2005, 8:48 PM GMT, by AgentSmith.

Edited on, April 6, 2005, 8:53 PM GMT, by AgentSmith.

[Sham]

Actually, Sanath is quite a good example! He scored three half centuries in his first 6 test matches. And then he went through 10 test matches where he scored one further half century and averaged a mere 17!

Yeah, the more I look at his figures, the more I wonder why the stupid Sri Lankan selectors kept picking him. They really shouldn't have 'worried about him anymore' after such a pathetic run of scores!

[Sham]

Originally posted by AsifTheManRahman
haha agent! sham's gonna have a go at you now! you didn't read his last line!

Haha! I don't even know how to have a go at him anymore. Had a feeling that he doesn't read posts in full before replying. Made quite a fool himself on thi occasion! Now he has decided that this conversation isn't going anywhere! Well done Agent, happy to call it quits if you are!



Edited on, April 6, 2005, 8:51 PM GMT, by Sham.

[Rubu]

its not my conversation that not going anywhere. its the argument thats not going anywhere.

i'll call it a quit if ever kapali can prove me wrong with bat, not before that. which does not appear to be happening in few decades.

btw, 4 test wicket + how many ODI?

i did see the line but did not worry much because "figures can't lie, but liers can make the figure". i've seen a lot of those static manipulations to go in your favore and dont care much about it.

Edited on, April 6, 2005, 8:58 PM GMT, by AgentSmith.

[Sham]

Now I'm curious, what is your take on Jayasuriya? 4 wickets and 231 runs in 10 Test matches over three years? What was that all about and why the hell was he picked again?

Edited on, April 6, 2005, 8:56 PM GMT, by Sham.

[Rubu]

Originally posted by Sham
Now I'm curious, what is your take on Jayasuriya? 4 wickets and 231 runs in 10 Test matches over three years? What was that all about and why the hell was he picked again?

Edited on, April 6, 2005, 8:56 PM GMT, by Sham.

could be many many things, some example:

* did not have a better choice.
* did always better in other class tournaments.
* did good in ODI, and having two team for test and odi is a very recent trend.
* had backing.
* just an incidence. attapattu was drop after just one test after scoring 1 and 0 and took years to come back again into the team. why, u know? its not that they did this with every single player.

o btw, who u think kapali should replace (and therefore better talent and player)? rajin, ash, bashar, aftab?
2 opener + 4 batsman + 1 keeper + 4 bowler = 11. which slot u wanna consider him for?

[Sham]

Right now? None! But if he can get back his form and get back to his best? Ashraful and Bashar apart, I'd give him anyone's slot! But I wouldn't make him an opener, so I guess Aftab's or Rajin's!

[Sham]

Originally posted by AgentSmith


i did see the line but did not worry much because "figures can't lie, but liers can make the figure".
Edited on, April 6, 2005, 8:58 PM GMT, by AgentSmith.

This is when I decide that you aren't worth my time or effort. So, I'm done answering to your posts on this thread!

[RazabQ]

Originally posted by Sham

This is when I decide that you aren't worth my time or effort. So, I'm done answering to your posts on this thread!

Now now, let's be civil

[Sham]

That is as civil as I could be!

[AsifTheManRahman]

haha...chaten ken bhai bonera...after all kapali's not making it to the england tour anyways...

[Rubu]

in the time frame given above, jayasuria got 65 wickets in 32.8 average and scored 9 half centuries and 1 centuries. enough reason to be in odi? how about a time when same team used to play test and odi? brings jayasuria into test team as well ah?

this is what i call................

[Rubu]

Originally posted by Sham
Right now? None! But if he can get back his form and get back to his best? Ashraful and Bashar apart, I'd give him anyone's slot! But I wouldn't make him an opener, so I guess Aftab's or Rajin's!

back to his form? couple 80's and few double figures in pak, is was the best for he ever achieved. i'd not even replace taposh's batting for that.

[Sham]

Wonderful. Thank you for your opinion!

[Fazal]

Originally posted by AsifTheManRahman
haha...chaten ken bhai bonera...

Who is licking what.

I would request every one to save our tongue for a while, because after the England series, we will be pretty busy licking our wounds....


I think people are bored and therefore making something out of nothing in the argument.

No one in the right mind can deny the following:

1. Aloke has some god gifted talent. Now the question can be how much.
2. Recently Alok failed to justify his inclusion in the team and therefore justifiably omitted from the team.
3. He needs some time and some more good performance before he should be considered to the national team. Now the question can be how much performance and how long he needs to perform in local league to justify his next inclusion.
4. Once omitted, a player (in this case Alok) needs to compete with other prospective players who have done well as well as an opening in the national team due to bad performance or injury in the national team.
5. One can complain his inclusion before the game or after a bad performance. But no Bangladeshi will hope for Alok’s failure once he is batting or bowling in the national team (regardless he is a alok’s fan or not). If you can replace the name ‘Alok’ with ‘Rana’ or ‘Hannan’ or ‘Jodu’ or ‘Modhu’ it should be true.

Therefore which side you are in, there is nothing to get emotional and exited about this issue. Therefore relax and enjoy the good days before it gets really ugly. In test we are still undefeated (I mean in this year).


Edited on, April 6, 2005, 11:06 PM GMT, by Fazal.