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  #26  
Old November 4, 2004, 03:49 AM
PoorFan PoorFan is offline
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AsifTheManRahman

How do you like it, if some street gang force you to pay 2 luck taka as "Chada"(toll)?
How do you feel, when they call your home over and over and threatened your family, your brother and retired father?
How do you feel, when you find yourself no way but to pay that money to keep your family safe?
I don't feel good at all by any means when I see they comes out of jail, soon after they get arrested over and over.
Please don't talk about the "Text book logic" or LAW or SYSTEM and everything,
when the reality is far far different in our country. If it's not our country then I would think different way without any doubt.

Every time we the normal people are victim and have to pay our life's and wealth and energy for this situation.
But those criminals are making money from us, for them, for police, for buying arms, for making new criminals
doing crime for politician and finally again coming back after us with more power.
This is not just acceptable by any means for those who are the victim.

What you heard in summer from a short visit to Bangladesh, could be a different story
and you may come up with some detail so that we can understand your point and story.
I am sure there are huge story does really exist like I mention above,
and who really don't give a damn about the HUMAN RIGHT of those criminals.
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  #27  
Old November 4, 2004, 02:08 PM
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AsifTheManRahman AsifTheManRahman is offline
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Well, first of all, please don't tell me what to say and what not to say.

Secondly, I would definitely feel bad if anything like that happened to my family...which is exactly why RAB sucks...

How would you like it if one day a bunch of masked losers break in to your house and break everything in the search for illegal weapons and then leave without finding them? I'm pretty sure you wouldn't like it would you?

The point is that normal people have to pay the price - RAB or no RAB. RAB has already begun to turn into a bunch of criminals, much like the police.
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  #28  
Old November 4, 2004, 02:09 PM
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AsifTheManRahman AsifTheManRahman is offline
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The point I'm trying to make here is that RAB should be more accurate in their predictions, and should be there to help people ALL THE TIME, not harass them occassionally - that's all.
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  #29  
Old November 4, 2004, 03:38 PM
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Navarene Navarene is offline
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I totally agree with Asif. RAB's present actions reflect the shadow of notorious Rakkhi Bahini of Bakshal regime in eraly 70's. There has already been whispers in the air about RAB's so-called direct action activities among the mass. The most controversial part of it's action is that criminals are always being killed in so-called "cross fire", which remains extremely fishy. At least 44 criminals are killed in mysterious cross fire since RAB was appeared in the scene in last June(Prothom Alo). Who knows may be these mouths were needed to be shut forever to avoid some untold stories that might unveil the mask of some big shots of our political leadership.

The last thing the mass people of Bangladesh want to see is a law making force turns out to be a serial killer.
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  #30  
Old November 4, 2004, 03:42 PM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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If RAB supporters think that, for the current situation in Bangladesh, we need RAB with absolute power and no accountability for their action, then basically what they are saying is " for LAWLESS country like Bangladesh we need LAWLESS enforcers like RAB to protect the lawless citizens from bad guys to enforce street justice". So why sugar coat? Say this in straight face.

In that case why not call them Mafia, as mafia used to have absolute power and no accountability to the whole nation. They had their own territory and followers to protect. They enforced their own street justice.

To me Bangla Bhai is a Bangladeshi Mafia and RAB is going to the same path unless we realize that and make them accountable for their actions. At least I would hope that Bangladesh Government give them some legal tools to legalize their actions. Otherwise they are doomed to be corrupt. Lies and deception never bring any good to the society.

This mess was not created overnight and trying to by-pass the normal process and trying to do quick fix is just an desperate attempt by desperate people and doomed for failure. Its like trying to fix the problem blindfolded without seeing the whole picture of the consequences that will be created as a by-product of this quick fix attempt.

We always look for Quick Fix and Quick Money without going through the painful process. And that is the cause of most of our failures.



Edited on, November 4, 2004, 8:48 PM GMT, by Fazal.
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  #31  
Old November 5, 2004, 01:34 AM
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Well, I don't see RAB's actions reflects Rakkhi Bahini of Bakshal regime yet.
As long as they are working on top ranked criminals,
and no matter which political party he is involve with but get arrested and punished,
RAB should not compare with Rakkhi Bahini or Bangla Bhai in my opinion.
Even compare RAB with mafia hardly require any comments.

The point is there is too many death in the process of arrest by so-called "cross fire".
According to the newspaper most of these are well known criminals
who committed crimes including murder and rape for several times.
But yet our justice and authority failed to keep them in jail rather
making money by granting bail again and again for them.
So they come out from jail using their HUMAN RIGHT and POLITICAL POWER
provided by some GOD FATHER, and again doing crime for their GOD FATHER
or for money against NORMAL PEOPLE LIKE US.
And the so-called GOD FATHERS remain unseen when these criminals and the victims are now face to face.

So my point is, as long as we are not allowed take the law in our hand though we normal people are so weak,
let the RAB do their job. If they had to gun down those criminals sometime, why should we shout for their human right?
Although it becomes quite a number of death since the RAB started their operation but hey,
same or even more numbers of victims exist there at the same time
because of those criminals are walking around free in the society.
Who cares or do something for real about those victims human right?
It doesn't necessarily means that the RAB should not be accountable for their actions, rather surely they should.

I think RAB is doing their job fine even though it's looks like little inhuman way,
but sooner or later criminals will start to provide names, information's, evidence of their GOD FATHERS
and we will be able to bring them to justice, and I hope this time it will work.
Atleast those criminals will either die or go under ground or flee to other country or whatever,
people will have some peace in mind and live their lives for a while.

I admit that the incident which I mentioned in my earlier post,
was actually happened to me in July of this year.
Later I read in newspaper that one of the criminal has been shot dead by RAB.
Believe me I didn't feel anything but some kind of mental relief.
I hope it doesn't happened to Asif what he meant on his previous post.
I really feel sorry if he and his family had to face that.
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  #32  
Old November 5, 2004, 01:59 AM
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Just because the judicial system is broken and the top criminals/politicians uses the loopholes to free themselves - we cannot ask a special force to avoid the 'rule of law' and kill whomever they want. This is complete disregard for the values of LAW. People who are letting RAB do this or continue this doesn't understand the value of why we should have a proper rule of law.

Already the allegations are out the RAB is being used to cover up illegal works of the politicians. One of the jamat goon in Chittagong had recently left his party and joined a different one. He was killed by RAB 'crossfire' within a month.

In the Past, any regime that has tried to do something like this, i.e. raise a special force and given them absolute power to kill people, has suffered terrible consequences later on. The sooner the current administration realizes this, the better for them and the rest of the society.
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  #33  
Old November 5, 2004, 12:09 PM
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Yes authority to kill without any questions can make the situation really nasty and out of hand.
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  #34  
Old November 5, 2004, 12:10 PM
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And no, nothing like that happened to me, but it did happen to other people.
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  #35  
Old November 6, 2004, 05:40 AM
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RAB is a group of “Angel”, guessing it, but why they are not trying to find out the root of power of a miscreant? Who are giving the shelter to them? Why the statement of associates, ringleader, money, property and wealth of a miscreant is not being recording and publishing before the “cross-fire”?

How the think tank of RAB are damn sure that killing of these miscreant will be enough not to producing more miscreant? Are only these miscreants responsible for all havoc?

DB, SB, CID and Metropolitan police are corrupted, inefficient and not dedicated, well who are the ringleader of POLICES and RAB? What genetically engineering cured all the RAB from all the tropical dieses of Police and who are the sensational engineers?

When a miscreant killed by his opposite group or sometimes by his own group victimized people always expressed their cheers, but it does not approve the process.

This is wild life history, mankind passed this era long long before. This is not good signage for mankind at all.
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  #36  
Old November 7, 2004, 09:35 PM
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RAB is an elite force whose members are extracted from different law enforcing forces. So, comparing them with Rakhi Bahini is illogical.

Rakhi Bahini was created to undermine the national army and to suppress the opposition. Rakhi Bahini is infamous for its infliction of indescribable torture upon the ordinary people. This Bahini was trained by General Uban of Indian army and was used to consolidate Mujib's political power by rooting out oppositions.

On the other hand, RAB has been created to root out convicted criminals to bring about peace and tranquility in the society. This is a highly trained and well motivated force capable of handling any challenge. They go after those people who have criminal records in the police book and try and subdue them in the manner befitting the level of challenge they face. Thousands of innocent people are captive of these convicted criminals' unlawful activities. These bad guys resort to murder, extortion, and rape to spread terror in the society. If the police is not capable of handling these rotten elements, then RAB will have to do it to maintain peace and harmony in the society.

God fathers should be brought to justice to root out terrorism from the society once and for all. But this is a political decision. RAB cannot make this decision for the politicians. These God fathers are, unfortunately, our political leaders. So, the onus to end this God father-ism should be put on the highest political leaders not RAB.

RAB has been doing a super job within its limit. Yes, there are some instances where innocent people have been harassed but it was due to faulty intel. Even a country such as America is not always right in providing correct intel.
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  #37  
Old November 8, 2004, 04:06 AM
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How and why this miscreant was escaped from Crossfire?

News
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  #38  
Old November 8, 2004, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mzia
RAB is a group of “Angel”, guessing it, but why they are not trying to find out the root of power of a miscreant? Who are giving the shelter to them? Why the statement of associates, ringleader, money, property and wealth of a miscreant is not being recording and publishing before the “cross-fire”?
this is because there is a high possibilty that the RABs themselves and/or their superiors are under direct payroll of the "root of power of a miscreant". There is no way u cud make me believe that the a part of the bd police force is not corrupted.
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  #39  
Old November 8, 2004, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mzia
How and why this miscreant was escaped from Crossfire?

News
My previous post has the answer to your question, my good friend.

RAB has shown visible success in rooting out those elements who resort to murder, extortion, and rape to spread terror in the society.

But there are some cases where these elements get protection from our nincompoop political leaders. In these cases, RAB and other law enforcement agencies are handicapped by the wishes of the civilian authority. Should we blame the law enforcement agencies for the wrondoings of our political leaders?

RAB has successfully eliminated convicted criminals in many cases except where political God fathers waived their divine hands to protect these criminals. Your link above is one such example.
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  #40  
Old November 9, 2004, 04:14 AM
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What is the definition of success? Killing a person without any trial? After killing he was this, he was that, so many allegation. And common cheap escape gate, rotten politicians are responsible for all, as if politician, a new species in the earth.

But we are watching dignified ex-army personnel are doing politics, veteran bureaucrats are in politics, Doctor, Engineer, Lawyer, Educationist, Journalist, Artist, Businessman and who not are doing the bloody politics. So politicians are not imported items they are son of the soil, relatives of simple peoples. But some elite groups are using these politicians.

Government has been changing. New peoples are in cabinet, New chairpersons are in autonomous body, New vice chancellors are in national university, New chief of Army staff, New Ambassadors and High Commissioners, New President and Chairman of various Sports federations and so on.

And every thing is being going on as usual, no lacking of lubricating. All the previous were corrupted, now every thing is perfectly all right. And any disorder, loophole, politician are responsible.

As if politicians are preparing all the file, noting, investigating, foreign training, feasibility study, market survey, tendering, awarding work order i.e. every thing is doing by politician, there are no mechanism, no organizational structure.

Resultant,

There was chorus “Rakki Bhaini is good”, patriot and now RAB is good, elite force.

New rank was awarded to service personnel, subsequently rank withdrawn by others.

Housing plot allotted by the Razuk and subsequently entire allotment cancelled by others.

But this is vicious cycle. Not good. No band-aid treatment is enough to cure it. Instead of establishing rules, law, policy, procedure, system and accountability no one is elite, superior, innocent and safe.
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  #41  
Old November 9, 2004, 02:13 PM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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RAB are saints from heaven

They came from heaven to save us from evil.

What Law & Order? What proper procedure? What is right and wrong? What accountability? What lies and deception ? RAB is above all of those.

So don't worry be happy.
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  #42  
Old November 9, 2004, 03:29 PM
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Bangla Bhai's men collecting Eid levy for jihad fund
Staff Correspondent, Rajshahi

Islamist militant band Jagrata Muslim Janata Bangladesh (JMJB) commanded by Bangla Bhai has imposed Eid levies on the Muslim villagers of the pockets it controls in the northwestern region triggering fresh panic among the locals.

Bhangla Bhai's men have been asking the villagers over loudspeakers of mosques in Naldanga of Natore Atrai, Raninagar of Naogaon and Bagmara of Rajshahi for the last few days to pay them tolls on occasion of the upcoming Eid-al-Fitr.
.......
......

Sources said Bangla Bhai is still in command, though in underground, and is considering staging come back with much increased force.

Rajshahi Superintendent of Police Masud Mia however said he was quite unaware of any such extortion, claiming, "Bangla Bhai or his people have no chance even to enter any village in Rajshahi."

http://www.thedailystar.net/2004/11/10/d4111001077.htm
--------------

Where is RAB? Are they busy capturing the chuno-puti or busy counting the share from Bangla Bhai? .oops:

Edited on, November 9, 2004, 8:38 PM GMT, by Fazal.
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  #43  
Old November 9, 2004, 04:59 PM
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Navarene Navarene is offline
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Default Move to challenge formation of RAB

The establishment of the Rapid Action Battalion (RAB) is being challenged. A petition under the writ jurisdiction of the High Court Division has been made ready by the petitioners Md. Raziur Rahman Chowdhury and Sheikh Golam Hafiz, both practicing lawyers. They have brought in this as a public interest case though none of them were ever affection by any action of RAB personally.

It is up for hearing on Saturday.

The petitioners questioned the very formation of RAB claiming it had no legal foundation as such and thus illegal.

The petitioners made the Secretaries of the Law Ministry, Cabinet Division, Home Ministry and the Additional Inspector General of Police (and Director of RAB) as respondents.

According to the petitioners, RAB was raised under the Armed Police Battalions (Amendment) Act, 2003. But while doing so the amendment Act of 2003 has deleted the very name of the Armed Police Battalion Ordinance 1979 and replaced it by Rapid Action Battalion.

So RAB has turned out to be a head less body and ultra vires of the Constitution, the petitioners said.

According to them this law was also running parallel to the existing law on the subject---The Police Act 1961.

In a Unitary form of Government as ours, two laws on the same subject can not proceed at a time, the petitioners also said.

Source

More on elite RAB action:

Rapid Action Battalion officers arbitrarily torture and detain three men, resulting in the death of one
Rafique Al Islam
Must people die in custody?
Drishtipat
Murder case filed against RAB
Bangladesh rights group claims security force involved in killings

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  #44  
Old November 17, 2004, 06:20 AM
acker acker is offline
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The Pacific Islands are unfortunately becoming a big target for unsavoury well armed characters like the Russian mafia.
To let them not only run the vice in an island country but possibly run the government as well is unthinkable.
The rapid deployment force is well worth while,
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  #45  
Old November 19, 2004, 10:08 AM
mzia mzia is offline
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Last midnight, early mornings RAB raided a house in Gazipur for hunting some miscreants and one of those attacked the RAB with a big knife (!) and also tried to snatch the arms of RAB!! For self-defense RAB opened fire and three miscreants were killed. TV News.

Still there are so many heroic characters that dare to attack the RAB, as if people do not know any thing about the RAB!

Today Zafar Iqbal expressed his view about Crossfire.

I think this is the echo of mass people.

Crossfire
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  #46  
Old December 1, 2004, 03:32 AM
mzia mzia is offline
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“A notorious miscreant was arrested by the RAB. They arrested him with arms, ammunitions, drug and blah blah blah.

To showing his arms collection he was taken to a place and then some of his colleagues opened fire and RAB also replied, mean time arrested miscreant was trying to flew and fallen in cross firing and injured by bullets and subsequently dead.

This was happened around 3 am. That person was a listed terrorist and numerous cases were against him.”

The above is an official statement of RAB giving after most of the entire crossfire incident. Language is more or less same in all the cases.

Yesterday law minister Maodud Ahmed said in a parliamentary committee meeting that to save their won lives, to protect arrested person from the miscreant’s attack, RAB forced to open fire and resultant “crossfire”!

News

Few common questions arisen due to recurring nature of the crossfire incident.

1. Why all the missions are being operating always at after midnight?

2. Why sufficient measuring steps are not taking in light of previous incident?

3. Why the sufficient forces did not cordon the spot before? As it was planned mission why sufficient forces were not deployed?

4. Elite force, extracted from different forces, selected for theirs smartness, performance and agility. But always only the captured man shot dead why not a single alleged associates, who opened fire first, killed or injured or caught?

5. Those are the most ferocious who dare to attack the RAB knowingly. What is the measure is being taken to hold these proven miscreants and what is the scenario of success?
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  #47  
Old December 1, 2004, 01:11 PM
Tehsin Tehsin is offline
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Mzia,

If you are referring to this one from dailystarnews:
----------------------------------------------------
http://www.thedailystar.net/2004/12/01/d4120101033.htm

CHITTAGONG
A Rab team arrested the absconding criminal after firefight with his gang at Patharghata at around 10:00 last night.

The Rab men were taking him to Fatehbad in Hathazari when Iqbailya's associates opened fire on them to snatch him, prompting them to retaliate.

Receiving several bullets, Iqbailya died on the spot.

The law enforcers said they recovered four sophisticated firearms from his possession.
------------------------------------------

This Mr. Iqbal or Iqbailya (if that's what you prefer) has been forceably living in one of our rental properties for the last few month. He has done so after getting out of prison for the umpteenth time. He has numerous cases against him and probably equal number of incidents that has never been reported. I can assure you that his victims and those lives that he has touched in his own special way are not going to question RABs actions.

This is where I am going to level with you:

- RAB should not have absolute power. There should be some kind of accountibility.
- There should be special care taken to insure the safety of the general public/the innocent.
- IF we arrest them, we may get more info about their bosses. MAY.

Unfortunately, that's all we can agree on at this moment.

- On the question of accountibility, to who ? To who ? The public ? Bhai, we can't even make our politicians accountible, our pesky little govt/non-govt employees accountible, how do you propose we get accountability from RAB ?
- How about this, once we get rid of the little minions, we will have another group formed to go after the bigger criminals. I hope you have no problem with the death and destruction of all things evil in Bangladesh.
- Why does it happen in midnight ? Don't really know. I guess it's dark and it gives RAB proper cover to plan and implement a surprise attack. Surely, we don't need to alarm the Iqbailya's before planning to arrest or assasinate them.
- Sufficient measures? I guess not many people really care about the death of these goons and hired hands.
- Suffucuent forces ? Presense of too many RAB forces are clearly going to alert the neighborhood mastans and with the advent of mobile phones, your friendly neighborhood mastan is only a click away. You keep it small enough to finish the operation without much hungama.
- If I was there to arrest so and so, my primary objective is going to be to get my man, dead or alive. Alive preferred (who are we kidding, he is going to bail out sooner or later and we'll have more crime to solve) but dead if I must. I really do not have any soft corner for any criminals. Look at the US, they try to do the right thing but all you gotta do is either hire a good (read - sleazeball) lawyer or claim insanity and you may get off the hook.
- If we do get to arrest one of these, what are the chances that he will confess ? How much do you think he will know about the goings on of his bosses ? how much will this confession help in briging down the real culprits.
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  #48  
Old December 1, 2004, 05:19 PM
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This thread is a good reminder why it is so easy to capture and retain absolute power in Bangladesh. Give the people a few dead criminals, and they all forget the rest of the crap they are being doled out. These criminals are a dime a dozen in Bangladesh. Each one is more infamous than the next, and they all claim to be the worst most dangerous criminal ever. There are more of them then there are RAB crossfire bullets available to mow them down. Like jihadi suicide bombers, killing them won't necessarily reduce overall crime. Since the most cunning criminals are in the halls of power, what is the big deal with all this RAB action? Just sit back and enjoy a good shootout not on some Bollywood movie but at the street corner near you.
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  #49  
Old December 2, 2004, 04:43 AM
mzia mzia is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by tehsin

- How about this, once we get rid of the little minions, we will have another group formed to go after the bigger criminals. I hope you have no problem with the death and destruction of all things evil in Bangladesh.
I think no one, regardless victim or non-victim, should have any problem to seeing that all the bad element are eliminating, but not through killing without trail!! It will create more havoc and confusion.

Quote:
Originally posted by tehsin

- Suffucuent forces ? Presense of too many RAB forces are clearly going to alert the neighborhood mastans and with the advent of mobile phones, your friendly neighborhood mastan is only a click away. You keep it small enough to finish the operation without much hungama.
But what is the success? Killing only who was in hand? Lots of miscreant opened fire to free the arrested one but no one has ever been killed or caught, what a performance!

Quote:
Originally posted by tehsin
I really do not have any soft corner for any criminals.
No one have and no one should have. This is not the question of soft corner to miscreant its question of ethics!

Quote:
Originally posted by tehsin
- On the question of accountibility, to who ? To who ? The public ? Bhai, we can't even make our politicians accountible, our pesky little govt/non-govt employees accountible, how do you propose we get accountability from RAB ?
Tehsin, how do you make sure that RAB is doing absolutely right thing. They are killing the miscreant, why they are not touching the ringleader? How they are compromising?



Questions have already been uttered why only BNP, AL and LEFTIST parity’s cadres are fallen in the crossfire, no one from Jamat Shibir cadre. “Jamat Shibir caders are being handing over their arms smoothly that so”- RAB official said for clarification. Source Prothom Alo.

It is not so simple. As Rafiq said in his posting “Give the people a few dead criminals, and they all forget the rest of the crap they are being doled out.” It’s true. For the shake of power, some are using this non-ethical approach.

It is not good. Temporarily it feels some relief, especially those who are directly victimize, but it would not be helpful to create congenial environment. Root should be identified and eliminated. No one should be above the law.

Two higher police official has been punished in Khulna. They took money from a terrorist in lieu of “crossfire” and subsequently it has been proved by the military intelligence. Prothom Alo.

This is the worse out come of freedom of choice.

If every person hands up, okay thing will be happened like this, how the democratic path will be created? Problem is in everywhere, in every society and way of get rid of has also been defined but not in a wild way.
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  #50  
Old December 2, 2004, 05:23 AM
PoorFan PoorFan is offline
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I thought we are not that crap, that don't understand the logic "capture and retain absolute power" by gunned down few criminals.
Although in old days every government has done the same trick soon after take power, including BNP, Ershad, AL etc.
But nothing like this time RAB trying to do. I think we all understand the logic of "crossfire" which shouldn't be evaluate only by ideology or politics.
The reality of our society is that the criminals are committing crime like murder or rape repeatedly and remain free in the society.
There must be so many reason behind it like corrupted police, politics, justice etc., but that's not the point here and RAB is not responsible to fix it.
This is a worst situation and there is no way to ignore it or left alone for a good ideal system or good politics to come, not even for a single day.
Since we the normal people are not living in power hall and the criminals are on the street, face to face to us, it's a "do or die situation".
So why someone should not enjoy a good shootout on the street near by him, not in Bollywood movie but on street naturally.

We have to start from somewhere, do we have any better idea which may bring effective result for instant?
If we have then lets discuss about that before putting political color on RAB activity.
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