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  #1  
Old November 8, 2004, 04:56 AM
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Ahmed_B Ahmed_B is offline
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Default More Youngstars??!

Here is a stat for those who wholeheartedly prefer young guns over seniors and demand the seniors to be dropped at every possible opportunity without any second thoughts:

Can you guess what is the difference between average ages of out players & other Top Teams?? Well here is the info about our very last series:

Ave. age of BD players in vs. NZ : around 23!
Ave. age of NZ players vs. BD: around 28!!!

We are 5 years behind by age and experience alone!! And Iím sure comparison with other teams would be quite similar.
:duh:
.. anyone still want more youngsters or U-19 or maybe U-16 players in the squad??

Edited on, November 8, 2004, 10:07 AM GMT, by crickethorizon.
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  #2  
Old November 8, 2004, 11:43 AM
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Rubu Rubu is offline
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yes.

five years latter, i'd want the team's average age to be 28, not now.

u have to keep in mind that NZ has been playing cricket in international level for decades. we are not. we are in the training process of it. now, regardless of anything, i still believe young brains (and of course body) are much faster in learning than old folks. once the training period is over, we can think of keeping the experienced ones. but, right now, the old guys are not trained either. we've to train any age group we choose. what age group to choose, u can think of it.

it is true that nannu-bulbul-akram's were dropped a bit earleir then they were supposed to. but that was not the current selector board. now, there is no going back. unless ofcourse, they can prove themself in domestic league and goes past the fitness test. bulbul gonna play domestic league. this would be a good measure to see who leads the runs, the current team or the oldies.
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  #3  
Old November 8, 2004, 12:54 PM
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Ahmed_B Ahmed_B is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by AgentSmith
u have to keep in mind that NZ has been playing cricket in international level for decades...
I'm too lazy to go through background statistics... but yet my intutions tell me that whn NZ or any other countries started playing TEST cricket.. they dint start with an average age of 22-23.. and then grow to the current average age.. as your proposition...
(Sorry.. don't hav the energy to go through stats!)


Quote:
Originally posted by AgentSmith
..right now, the old guys are not trained either. we've to train any age group we choose. what age group to choose, u can think of it.
vs.
..now, there is no going back. unless ofcourse, they (seniors) can prove themself in domestic league and goes past the fitness test...
Self-Contradiction in logic
firstly you made the ability to learn fast as the prime selection criteria.. on the other hand, you fail to totally ingnore the factor of 'performance' still shown by the seniors. If your first logic is correct.. then seniors shudn't be considered no matter how good they perform.. coz they lack the ability to learn fast!


Quote:
Originally posted by AgentSmith
it is true that nannu-bulbul-akram's were dropped a bit earleir then they were supposed to. but that was not the current selector board. now, there is no going back....
don't get me wrong.. my point is not to bring back senior players immediately!! Rather I suggest not to 'push-in' 1 or 2 debutants in every match!!
I just prefer keeping the current pool of players and try to improve them and mature them up.. instead of dropping a few after every series and bringing 'fresh-young-blood' out of hunger for early & cheap success!!

Edited on, November 8, 2004, 5:58 PM GMT, by crickethorizon.
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  #4  
Old November 8, 2004, 02:19 PM
Zephaniah Zephaniah is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by crickethorizon

don't get me wrong.. my point is not to bring back senior players immediately!! Rather I suggest not to 'push-in' 1 or 2 debutants in every match!!

Edited on, November 8, 2004, 5:58 PM GMT, by crickethorizon.
Ditto. No more debutants for this year. We can easily make a pool of 25 players who played international cricket within year. Shuffle them around.
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  #5  
Old November 8, 2004, 02:33 PM
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Rubu Rubu is offline
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sorry, i fail to see the contradiction: of course performance is the key, not ability to learn. but when both are in the same level of performance (the way our senior and junior are, very few difference in stat and ability), a youngester gets the advantage because of his ability to learn quickly. just a quick example, if a office gets to learn a new softaware of which no one has a clue (unless u ofcourse think that our seniors are specilist in internation level), it will send a younger person who can learn it fast and will be in service for quite a while as oppose to sending someone who will retire in few years and will take half of that time to learn.

also, when looking at stats, keep in mind that, the oldies had plenty of time to play for themself instead of the team. they never played for win in international level and can try to improve their stat while match goes without a compition from the first ball. on the other hand, the young guns try to win in most occations (most i said) and that obviously effects their stats.

one more point, JO was out of them getting this "not useful" tag like the oldie trio. he came back, and that proves selectors are open to anyone who can make himself useful. why can't they come in then?
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  #6  
Old November 8, 2004, 03:15 PM
billah billah is offline
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I was watching the videotape of the 1997 ICC trophy when Bangladesh became champion. Not the famous final, but the semifinal against Scotland. Both the semi and final were held on the same poor ground, where the outfield was just the worst you could have. Our batsmen had to hit the ball very hard, still, if it dropped before reaching boundary, the ball would just die on the spot. On any other ground, they would have had at least 20 more boundaries it seems.

At the 25th over, Aminul hoiks a sixer, Bangladesh reaches 98/2 against quality Scotland bowling. Harsha Bhogle, the venerable commentator, was saying that Aminul is the only Bangladeshi batsman that reminded him of Javed Miandad. Sound techniques, style and patience. I suddenly had the shocking thought that how comforting it would be to hear this same score of 98/2 by us, at the 25th over, against just about any opponent today.

All Test teams of the world have mentor players that are older, that guide the youngsters. Except for us!. I sincerely think Aminul was not given enough opportunities to serve the team after his debut century. Look at how many times we brought Kapali back. Look at Hannan, he's still in. Durjoy, Aminul played many high pressure innings against quality subcontinental bowlers in the local leagues. Many of our young players never had the opportunity. Thus far, only the seniors, (and I emphasize "Only"), are the consistant performers for the team, not the youngsters. Obviously, I am pointing to Rafique and Pilot. Mentoring is an absolute necessary component of team building.

Last year, when there was no local league, you would find our little master, Ashraful, crisscrossing Dhaka with a couple of buddies, on a Rikshaw, looking for cricket to play. He would play anywhere, any form of his favorite game. Where has the high pressure, competitive local league gone? Where is the big money, big name stuff where the superstars of India, Pak & SL will bowl & bat against us? I'm sure many of us remember the clash of the titans like Biman, Surjotorun, Abahoni, Mohamedans, not too long ago. The locking up of the national pool was probably the first step in the backward direction. It takes time to create and establish cricket culture. Strong local league is essential.
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  #7  
Old November 8, 2004, 03:25 PM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by billah
Strong local league is essential.
I guess we ALL agree on that one.

I miss those matches between Abahani, Mohamedan and Biman.
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  #8  
Old November 9, 2004, 12:31 AM
shaoun shaoun is offline
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well i think bcb believes now the important of domestic cricket. i know they will bring it back from this yr. bcb is doing everything to improve cricket in bangladesh. i think we made just couple of mistakes. it was bringing too many young players at the same time. i agree that nafiz ashraful alok aftab are all talented. they can be future superstars. but we do need bulbul, shumon akram nannu to guide them. but i think its too late now. i felt nannu should have been back to national team after 2001 national league. he was in top form. scoreing over 1000 runs. he is 39 now so he was 36 then. nannu could of played entire 2002/2003 and mayb even this yr and retire. what would nannu do? yes he may have stopped rajin or hannan or nafiz from getting into the team but he would make ashraful of whomever young batsman that are in the team better with his guidence and experience. but ritenow nannu is 39 and not in his best form. but i think if he brought nannu then it would have helped the team. i think aminul should not have been dropped from the team so quickly either. he should have played until now maybe even 1/2 more yrs. in my opinion it is okay to bring fast bowlers in the team when they are young. because fast bowlers lose their form earlier then batsman or spin bowlers. but batsman and spin bowlers need time to get experience. look at rafique, he was never this good as he is now. he is in his best form ritenow. and he is making rana better at the same time. i think rafique is helping ranas bowling too. spinners gets better with age and experience and so does batsman.
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  #9  
Old November 9, 2004, 02:16 AM
Imran Imran is offline
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Shaon, well said..

Look at how many left handed spinners we have now. A senior is a mentor, a guide and helps producing new players.

Our selectors like young players. Younger the better. More younger, more better.

Nannu, Akram, Bulbul are too old to come. But what about Durjoy, Rokon, Bidduyt, Api, Faisal (did he got enough chances!), Monju, Shezan, Tushar Imran ? Where are they? Why have we forgotten as soon as we saw some new bloods like Hannan, Alok, Aftab and Co.

Look at the terrible BCB 11 team that played against NZ. All the top five batsman played in that game played in the first test. None of them even make a half century. Nafees even scored a 20 plus ball duck and yet got a test nod.

If I were a selector, I would not make a team like that. A selector must have it in his mind like who is going to play for sure in the test. Like Ashraful, may be Hannan (at that point). So I would definitely keep them out of the team and add two more probables in the team, so that in that 2 innings who ever scores better would get a chance. You never ever play your first Test with an opening batsman who just scored a duck in the practice match. None does that. No international team would do that with a youngstar especially.
There has been a lot of places where I have found our selectors and coach lacks in patience and too prone to experiment. They seem a lot fickle minded than most of other selectors in other countries. And also they favor players by things that I do not understand.
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  #10  
Old November 9, 2004, 03:14 AM
bourny3 bourny3 is offline
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Shaoun and Imran both good points. I agree that those older players should have been in the team 2 or 3 years ago up until now. But they wont get a place in the team now. They are too old.
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  #11  
Old November 9, 2004, 05:42 AM
Shish Ahmed Shish Ahmed is offline
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Billah bhai, you have made some very good points, let's just hope Aminul can do the business in domestic cricket so the selectors have no option but to have a look at him.

By the way i would love to see the video tape of them matches or if you can tell me where i can get hold of them.
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  #12  
Old November 9, 2004, 04:01 PM
billah billah is offline
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Dear Shish: Thanks for the comments. I have the tapes. The local Bangladeshi video stores no longer have copies of these. If you want, I can try to make copies and mail them to you. Let me know.
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  #13  
Old November 10, 2004, 07:37 AM
Shish Ahmed Shish Ahmed is offline
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Dear Billah, please check your U2U
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  #14  
Old November 10, 2004, 08:33 AM
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Shehwar Shehwar is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by billah
I was watching the videotape of the 1997 ICC trophy.. Strong local league is essential.

Well written..Absolutely awesome Bro...n by the way...I also have that tape...It really was a classy little 57 by our real little master.

Edited on, November 10, 2004, 2:22 PM GMT, by chinaman.
Reason: Please do not quote large post. Only the relevant part. Thanks.
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