"Did we do the right thing?"

[Alien]

Originally Posted by Arnab
Yeah, right.

Bangladesh had ~70 million people back in 1971.

The whole Indian subcontinent was a pile of developing nations, India included.

Occupying/annexing Bangladesh would have given India huge benefits. It would have given her precious territorial continuity, seamless transport of resources from its eastern states, the world's most fertile alluvial plain (Bengal was the richest region in India before the Brits took over and was the seat of British Raj), etc etc.

You know, the same arguments given by those who feel India is always threatening Bangladesh and will attack her soon.

I totally disagree with you. Yes benefits will come to India for occupying BD which you have rightly mentioned above. BUT that will come with disadvantages in the long run. India is suffering from overpopulation. Additional 70 million people (assuming you are right) wont help anyone. All that glitter is not gold. We have lot of resource, gas, excellent fertile soil. But those are accompanied by massive poverty, corruption, literacy problems, muslims here wont intermingle happily with hindus in India.

[Kabir]

Originally Posted by Alien
People aren't taking pro-pakistani stance here. We all understand the brutality of Pakistan and there is no excuse for it. The topic is whether India did it out of geniune feeling for our independence or whether there was something in it for them. Even though I strongly feel it went through all that trouble to break up Pakistan for security reasons, it was no doubt a positive thing for us.

Alien watched the world properly before he registered as a Bangladeshi citizen. So I agree with him.

I personally think that referring back to something that happened 35 years back, be it related to India or Pakistan, doesn't make any sense. It's illogical to think that BD will forget about its own interest for security/trade and what not simply to show its gratefulness to India for its help 35 years ago. Nope...coz that's what India would have expected 35 years ago, and that's something that I would bet my life on that the BD government did right so far.

On the other hand, talking about atrocities by Pakistanis in '71 right now don't make sense to me either. I know a lot of people might jump in here, but to be honest with you, just accept that it was the time of a war, and that's something that can potentially happen during that time. It doesn't mean we should forgive them for that, but it does also mean that we'll act as stupids if we keep fighting over that issue after 35 years. Situations are stable now. Unless keu shukhe thakle bhute kilay, it's simply stupid to bring it up in our relationship with these countries.

If you guys aren't aware of it, there have been many cases when Indians were involved with torture, oppression, and what not IN BANGLADESH. Those happened before '71. Should we do anything about those? No...just becuase it's not gonna make sense after 35 years.

Originally posted by HereYouGo
Ok so now imagine this Rohinga's telling you that Bangladesh did give us refuge and **** but we will never be thankful to them. How wud that make u feel.

"As of 2005, the UNHCR has been assisting with the repatriation of Rohingya from Bangladesh, but allegations of human rights abuses in the refugee camps have threatened this repatriation effort. " just a fact i thought u shud know.

I guess you've made it easier for me. I wouldnt be surprised if Rohingas are thankless to BD. The reason is, they have been treated bad by the govt, and they still are. May be we didn't get treated that bad by the Indians, but we've faced enough troubles because of them. As al Furqaan bhai mentioned, India being the regional power does put BD under pressure, and they get away with it. And such pressures are probably clear to you from my previous post. We don't have to sell our country to India to show our gratefullness...and if this doesn't penetrate through to you, then I better opt out from debating over this issue.

[HereWeGo]

Selling wat and to whom??? grateful doesnt mean selling.... GOD wat is wrong with u guys.....

[HereWeGo]

Chinaman er Sushi kheye peter ashukh hoise... ashtey time lagbey... but pls close this thread neone....I don even know y i waste my time like this...

[Imteaz]

We should not Care What Others are Saying. We Know What We are. It will Never be Changed by Others Negetive Comments. Everyone has a Different Perception. Let Them Tell Whatever They Like.

Have a Nice Time.

[imtiaz82]

Any country be it India or anybody else would have given shelter to refugees. As it has been seen all across the world, no country can stop the influx of refugees in war time situation. Pakistan gave shelter to millions of Afghans during the Soviet invasion, Bangladesh gave shelter to Rohingas. There are countless example in African countries like Rwanda and Somalia.

So India giving shelter to Bangladeshis was nothing out of the ordinary. What were they suppose to do, keep BSF in the border and shoot every other Bengali crossing it?

Then some are saying that INdia could have occupied/annexed Bangladesh after the war, simply ridiculous. They can't even hold on to Kashmir with 600,000 troops stationed. IN Assam and the 7 sister states there is violence all round the year. Why would they risk in getting 70 million muslim and create another domestic nightmare? Moreover, USA the world superpower and China the regional powerhouse were against INdia's involvment in the war. And they would have clearly hit back if not militarily but then atleast economically to India. At that time India was not even in the state they are today, they were just a large poor nation.

[Alien]

Originally Posted by HereWeGo
Chinaman er Sushi kheye peter ashukh hoise... ashtey time lagbey... but pls close this thread neone....I don even know y i waste my time like this...

No one is losing his/her temper here and discussions are carried out with civility and mutual respect of everyone's view. Any reason why it should be closed?

[Alien]

Originally Posted by imtiaz82
Any country be it India or anybody else would have given shelter to refugees. As it has been seen all across the world, no country can stop the influx of refugees in war time situation. Pakistan gave shelter to millions of Afghans during the Soviet invasion, Bangladesh gave shelter to Rohingas. There are countless example in African countries like Rwanda and Somalia.

So India giving shelter to Bangladeshis was nothing out of the ordinary. What were they suppose to do, keep BSF in the border and shoot every other Bengali crossing it?

Then some are saying that INdia could have occupied/annexed Bangladesh after the war, simply ridiculous. They can't even hold on to Kashmir with 600,000 troops stationed. IN Assam and the 7 sister states there is violence all round the year. Why would they risk in getting 70 million muslim and create another domestic nightmare? Moreover, USA the world superpower and China the regional powerhouse were against INdia's involvment in the war. And they would have clearly hit back if not militarily but then atleast economically to India. At that time India was not even in the state they are today, they were just a large poor nation.

You just spoke my mind. Cant agree any more

India cares as far as breaking its arch rival in two pieces. Anyone who says India could be the next super-power has serious problems. Their fourth largest airforce consists of old soviet junks which falls of the skies like bird poop. That reminds me that there was even a Amir Khan film about it "Raang De Basanti".

Army? In the nuclear age with weapons MOAB, you can have an army of 2 million wiped of an instant.

Navy? With 1 air-craft carrier, and that too being second-hand and having 10 years of service left, its no way near other countries

Nukes? Everyone is having them now. Its the latest trend. Even improvised countries like N.Korea has some of it. Nukes doesnt help anyone anymore other than create stalemates in arms race.

India can be super poor nation. Thats as far it will go for any time near future.

[mhferdaus]

Originally Posted by Alien
I totally disagree with you. Yes benefits will come to India for occupying BD which you have rightly mentioned above. BUT that will come with disadvantages in the long run. India is suffering from overpopulation. Additional 70 million people (assuming you are right) wont help anyone. All that glitter is not gold. We have lot of resource, gas, excellent fertile soil. But those are accompanied by massive poverty, corruption, literacy problems, muslims here wont intermingle happily with hindus in India.

I guess it might be also for Nehru Doctrine, hope that is their past thinking, cuz otherwise the problem will grow

[mhferdaus]

Originally Posted by Alien
You just spoke my mind. Cant agree any more

India cares as far as breaking its arch rival in two pieces. Anyone who says India could be the next super-power has serious problems. Their fourth largest airforce consists of old soviet junks which falls of the skies like bird poop. That reminds me that there was even a Amir Khan film about it "Raang De Basanti".

Army? In the nuclear age with weapons MOAB, you can have an army of 2 million wiped of an instant.

Navy? With 1 air-craft carrier, and that too being second-hand and having 10 years of service left, its no way near other countries

Nukes? Everyone is having them now. Its the latest trend. Even improvised countries like N.Korea has some of it. Nukes doesnt help anyone anymore other than create stalemates in arms race.

India can be super poor nation. Thats as far it will go for any time near future.

atleast they have million times better than their neighbours ... but one thing is pivotal here, that is they have bill gates ... yes bill gates made india his new home and that should be enough to make them economical super power of the region atleast ...

[al Furqaan]

no one has yet attempted to refute anything this dog has barked...often times dogs are quite a bit more perceptive than humans, hehe

[Arnab]

Originally Posted by Alien
I totally disagree with you. Yes benefits will come to India for occupying BD which you have rightly mentioned above. BUT that will come with disadvantages in the long run. India is suffering from overpopulation. Additional 70 million people (assuming you are right) wont help anyone. All that glitter is not gold. We have lot of resource, gas, excellent fertile soil. But those are accompanied by massive poverty, corruption, literacy problems, muslims here wont intermingle happily with hindus in India.

I don't think you "totally" disagree with me.

Just to play the devil's advocate properly:

• Most of the gas fields were not discovered yet in 1971.
• India' minority Muslim population is larger than the population of Bangladesh.
• Muslims and Hindus have co-habited relatively peacefully for centuries in the Indian subcontinent.
• Poverty, corruption, literacy, etc were ills in every part of the subcontinent. Bangladesh could fit right in along those dimensions.

[Kabir]

Muslims and Hindus have co-habited relatively in a murderous way. History books tell me about riots in the sub continent during the split after the British. I guess that's not quite peaceful. If not that time, events as recent as the Babri Mosque tells you about peace in India.

But one thing is true. If someone says India helped PURELY out of goodwill, that's probably the lamest thing I've heard. there's no goodwill in international politics. Everything is based on national interest. But in the process, since we got help from India, we should thank them. But sorry to say, we cannot be thier puppet...it's for our national interest.

[Arnab]

Originally Posted by Kabir
But one thing is true. If someone says India helped PURELY out of goodwill, that's probably the lamest thing I've heard.

I don't think anybody in the thread said that. However, India's help was so pivotal in gaining out independence in 1971 that nitpicking about the "purity" of their "goodwill" at that point is extremely silly.

It's like someone saving you from drowning and it just happens that your enemy is his enemy. You don't question the "purity of the goodwill" of the guy who saved you. He freakin' saved your life! You wouldn't even exist right now had he not saved you.

But sorry to say, we cannot be thier puppet...it's for our national interest.

I don't think anybody suggested such a thing either.

[Arnab]

Originally Posted by Kabir
Muslims and Hindus have co-habited relatively in a murderous way. History books tell me about riots in the sub continent during the split after the British. I guess that's not quite peaceful. If not that time, events as recent as the Babri Mosque tells you about peace in India.

Not really, I think the length of peaceful cohabitation exceeds the length of murderous riots. It's the bad things that stick to people's mind more. But yes, the two communities are deeply distrustful of each other. But no so much so that they cannot live in the same country under a common law.

[billah]

Originally Posted by Arnab
Not really, I think the length of peaceful cohabitation exceeds the length of murderous riots. It's the bad things that stick to people's mind more. But yes, the two communities are deeply distrustful of each other. But no so much so that they cannot live in the same country under a common law.

Uncivilized, barbaric, medievel style race riots ONLY takes place in India with clocklike certainty every few years. This has been the history of India. There is not another nation on the face of this earth where religious/race riot is a certainity. This time bomb has a short fuse and lights up once every few years. Regardless of hindu muslim differences, Indians have hatred towards each other that are very deep rooted within their own social system. This is probably why, there was NEVER a united India throughout history, unless some foreign powers came in and IMPOSED unity on them.

Other problems, India easily blames on ALL of her neighbors. Regular race riots are the only things India can't tag on others, since those are the times they themselves blow up on each other's face. Come to think of it, time may be ripe for yet another one of those soon.

Bangladesh was to be born through the hard work of our freedom fighters. 80+% work was done by us. At the end, India destroyed our airports, bridges and looted our national wealth in the process of "liberating" us. They even shot at the helicopter of our supreme commander (Osmani), so he could not participate in the surrender of the pakis. Without India's "help", it would have taken us longer, but only that. Now that more paki military officials are coming forward with information on the beating they took in the hands of our fighters, we are getting more authentic pictures of the real fights. These were buried behind India's propaganda of "help" for a long time.

India's help accelarated the paki fall, but, it was inevitable, with, or without Indian help.

[Special 1]

Originally Posted by billah
Bangladesh was to be born through the hard work of our freedom fighters. 80+% work was done by us. At the end, India destroyed our airports, bridges and looted our national wealth in the process of "liberating" us. They even shot at the helicopter of our supreme commander (Osmani), so he could not participate in the surrender of the pakis. Without India's "help", it would have taken us longer, but only that. Now that more paki military officials are coming forward with information on the beating they took in the hands of our fighters, we are getting more authentic pictures of the real fights. These were buried behind India's propaganda of "help" for a long time.

India's help accelarated the paki fall, but, it was inevitable, with, or without Indian help.

And where did all these freedom fighters get their training and ammunitions?
Where did 1/7th of our country go to during the war?
And I believe India had a huge role to play in the UN to make sure that Russia vetoed a resolution that would have crushed our liberation war.

So, 80% of the work was not done by the freedom fighters when India joined the war. India joined the war early on, when they recognized as a country early on during the war. And I doubt we would have gotten our independence any time near 1971 if it were not for India.

[billah]

Originally Posted by BBgun
And where did all these freedom fighters get their training and ammunitions?
Where did 1/7th of our country go to during the war?
And I believe India had a huge role to play in the UN to make sure that Russia vetoed a resolution that would have crushed our liberation war.

So, 80% of the work was not done by the freedom fighters when India joined the war. India joined the war early on, when they recognized as a country early on during the war. And I doubt we would have gotten our independence any time near 1971 if it were not for India.

Well, US intelligence data indicated that India "joined" in many years back, with covert operations and with putting our politicians in RAW payroll, with the intention of dividing up pakistan, not for any benevolent purpose.

At the end, I think a strong Mujib role prevented them from gobbling up the new nation, that they boasted of helping during the war. So, they remained true their benevolent image and supported us. This earned them more points with the international community. They also bagged millions of dollars in aid to help feed the refugees.

True, without India's military intervention, it would have taken us longer to liberate ourselves.

[Special 1]

Originally Posted by billah
Well, US intelligence data indicated that India "joined" in many years back, with covert operations and with putting our politicians in RAW payroll, with the intention of dividing up pakistan, not for any benevolent purpose.

At the end, I think a strong Mujib role prevented them from gobbling up the new nation, that they boasted of helping during the war. So, they remained true their benevolent image and supported us. This earned them more points with the international community. They also bagged millions of dollars in aid to help feed the refugees.

True, without India's military intervention, it would have taken us longer to liberate ourselves.

Does this mean you changed your initial statement of india joining the war once 80% of the work was done?

[Alien]

Originally Posted by Arnab
Most of the gas fields were not discovered yet in 1971.

Well then thats all the more reason that they wouldnt bother about invading us.

India' minority Muslim population is larger than the population of Bangladesh.

Today, India's minority Muslim population is around 200 milllion, and BD's population is around 150 million. Add that and you get 350 million. Back then it was significantly lesser but the proportion remains the same.

There was a good reason why BD went with Pakistan and not with India during the partition and the reason was religion. Religious coexistence is something new in our region. Our JMB and their Shiv Sena will always incite religious strife which you or I or any normal minded Indian wouldn't want to go through.

Muslims and Hindus have co-habited relatively peacefully for centuries in the Indian subcontinent.

Muslims and Hindus always had their mini fights which escalated into a major ones just before the British were about to be kicked out. They never got along and which is the very reason we have a country called India and another called Pakistan. If they coexisted for centuries there would be one united India and no Pakistan. And if they coexisted peacefully at some point in past, then that's history and has no relevance whats happening for last 50 years.

Poverty, corruption, literacy, etc were ills in every part of the subcontinent. Bangladesh could fit right in along those dimensions.

Sure it is. But there is nothing to be gained by adding poverty by including another 150 million. You shouldn't add it if you can't contain it atleast.

[Special 1]

Originally Posted by Alien
Today, India's minority Muslim population is around 200 milllion, and BD's population is around 150 million. Add that and you get 350 million. Back then it was significantly lesser but the proportion remains the same.

There was a good reason why BD went with Pakistan and not with India during the partition and the reason was religion. Religious coexistence is something new in our region. Our JMB and their Shiv Sena will always incite religious strife which you or I or any normal minded Indian wouldn't want to go through.

Muslims and Hindus always had their mini fights which escalated into a major ones just before the British were about to be kicked out. They never got along and which is the very reason we have a country called India and another called Pakistan. If they coexisted for centuries there would be one united India and no Pakistan. And if they coexisted peacefully at some point in past, then that's history and has no relevance whats happening for last 50 years.

Sure it is. But there is nothing to be gained by adding poverty by including another 150 million. You shouldn't add it if you can't contain it atleast.

First of all the proportions changed after the partition. during the partition there were mass movements within the borders of pakistan and India, which changed the composition of muslim and hindu population.

We have a country called India and another country called Pakistan because of two people Jinna and Nehru, and the British Empire. Hindus and Muslims can live peacefully. Its the politicians in their countries, (shiv shena and JMB included) that exploit religion to incite hatred amongst each other. And this is a new trend in the last 50 years.

Finally, there were tonnes of reasons for India to occupy Bangladesh.
Jute and access to eastern states are just two of such reasons.

[billah]

Originally Posted by BBgun
Does this mean you changed your initial statement of india joining the war once 80% of the work was done?

This inquiry makes me think you have a comprehension problem.

[Special 1]

Originally Posted by billah
This inquiry makes me think you have a comprehension problem.

And yet you do not give an answer. definately raises questions about your comprehension capabalities too

[Mav]

Let anyone criticize. One thing u must know that the people who are criticizing our independence dont have their own base. They certainly do not value humanity, rather they believe in power, nuclear weapons, violence. They have forgotten, never knew or dont value the lives of 3 million human that died in Bangladesh.

We were definately on the right side, we didnt get our rights, negotiations didnt work and a surprise attack was held. What do you thing normal humans wud do in a situation like this.

Next

Was India right to help us making Bangladesh?

First of all, We appriciate India's indirect help for training Bangladeshi Freedom fighters near Indo-Bangla borders But Everything Happens for a reason.

* India wanted Bangladesh to win the battle for Geological reason. Certainly they dont want two Pakistan when they have issues like Kashmir with Pakistan and had already fought 2 wars.

It not that they just came as a friend and helped us. India was right with their own reasons.

Bangladesh, sooner or later, would have defeated West Pakistan anyways. Before India's direct help/action in the war on december 6th, 1971, Many west Pakistani forces stopped fighting on different sectors of Bangladesh.

Do you think - India came and within 10 days Bangladesh is Free????/

Nope, People of Bangladesh did the Hard work, sacrifice and freed Bangladesh. Thanks for india's indirect help from the very begining and direct help from december 6th, 1971, But India didnt do it without a reason.

[Pundit]

This unrelenting submission to everything that is India is just mind boggling. If only some of you had reserved a small percentage of that devotion for your own country, and only your own country, with no conditions attached, what EVEN MORE wonderful citizens we would have had.

Just 2 things,

why did the Bangabandhu let the al-badrs free after the war?
why did the Bangabandhu have to visit Pakistan within a year of our independance (some of you call it liberation)?

Its called real politik. You guys should no ONLY ONE THING :

YOU ONLY OWE YOUR GRATITUDE TO YOUR OWN COUNTRY, AND NO BODY ELSE!!

Now quit wasting everybodies time with your naki kanna and grow some b_lls. Your country will need them the next time hanadars come to get your moms,sisters or wives.