Siddons - Even Bangladeshis would walk into Australian team

[Kabir]

Originally Posted by MohammedC
^^^ So you saying there is no one else who have potential.

I say word "potential" sux. What you need is hunger to succeed like Shakib and Tamim.

Posted via BC Mobile Edition (iPhone)

Nope, I didn't say that.

I agree, we use the term 'potential' too lightly. Potential is nothing without the hunger for success. Sakib and Tamim were potentials too, but they wanted to be the best and worked on it. Unlike...need I complete the sentence?

[22Yards]

Originally Posted by Kabir
Somewhere in there I saw a great potential in Naeem Islam. I haven't seen him get picked for a while now. His late order cameo can be useful - and has been useful before.

Somewhere in there i saw great potential in Naeem to be a batsman and not a slogger. Often times he has difficulty making the connection with his bat and bowl when in rage to score runs. That job i think only Mashrafe has done better than anyone in bangladesh camp. DId you see the Zim match where naeem was struggling to hit while mashrafe was hitting the bowl around the park easily during death overs ?

I'd say move him UP the order.

[MohammedC]

Originally Posted by Kabir
Nope, I didn't say that.

I agree, we use the term 'potential' too lightly. Potential is nothing without the hunger for success. Sakib and Tamim were potentials too, but they wanted to be the best and worked on it. Unlike...need I complete the sentence?

Sorry Kabir bhai, I was replying to bangla-red.

Can I call Fazal bhai to complete your sentence.

[Kabir]

Originally Posted by MohammedC
Sorry Kabir bhai, I was replying to bangla-red.

Can I call Fazal bhai to complete your sentence.

My bad

Where is Fazal mamoo? He seems to be in complete hibernation now - or is he?

[bangla-red]

Originally Posted by MohammedC
^^^ So you saying there is no one else who have potential.

I say word "potential" sux. What you need is hunger to succeed like Shakib and Tamim.

Posted via BC Mobile Edition (iPhone)

By hunger to succeed, someone can become a good player. But a world-class player needs the talent. I don't see anyone in our team (apart from Razzak, like I've already mentioned) that could become a world-class player in the next year and there's only a few here that could do it in their career. International standard, yes, world-class, no.

[simon]

besides Tamim likes Shane Watson too.

[Baundule]

Shakib will make any team and Tamim with a bit more control of his temper would have also done the same. Good that Siddons chose the right time to bring us in the discussion of test cricket.

But asking Australia to learn from us is lame. They are up against the red-hot English team and their key batsmen losing the form and getting injured do not make the task easy. Still they have managed to win one and draw another one remaining on commanding position. The two tests they have lost are due to their batting failure in the first innings from where they could not recover. They are sure to get things right before the world cup. If Hauritz performs well, they may be the surprise winner of the world cup as well.

The situation of Bangladesh cricket is completely different from that of the Aussies. The same medicine, whatever it is, does not apply to them. Siddons has taken the approach of developing players playing in the national team. The Aussies have much better infrastructure and their players are ready at the very first moment when they start playing international cricket. With every Australian player, not only the likes of Ponting and Clarke, form is the key, there is nothing to 'work them up' as suggested by Siddons. They are already finished products.

[Equinox]

Originally Posted by Baundule
Shakib will make any team and Tamim with a bit more control of his temper would have also done the same. Good that Siddons chose the right time to bring us in the discussion of test cricket.

But asking Australia to learn from us is lame. They are up against the red-hot English team and their key batsmen losing the form and getting injured do not make the task easy. Still they have managed to win one and draw another one remaining on commanding position. The two tests they have lost are due to their batting failure in the first innings from where they could not recover. They are sure to get things right before the world cup. If Hauritz performs well, they may be the surprise winner of the world cup as well.

The situation of Bangladesh cricket is completely different from that of the Aussies. The same medicine, whatever it is, does not apply to them. Siddons has taken the approach of developing players playing in the national team. The Aussies have much better infrastructure and their players are ready at the very first moment when they start playing international cricket. With every Australian player, not only the likes of Ponting and Clarke, form is the key, there is nothing to 'work them up' as suggested by Siddons. They are already finished products.

So Steven Smith, Phil Hughes, Tim Paine, Xavier Doherty are finished products? No matter how good a country's domestic structure and development program is it never fully prepares a player for International cricket. There is also something called experience. Siddons is spot on here and it fully applies to the current Australian scenario.

[PoorFan]

As Shamim would have said ... "Siddons is on fire!". Nice read.

[shakibrulz]

Originally Posted by Shaan
Shakib is musch better batsman comparing to Vettori, only thing Shakib played lesser than Vettory!!

Shakib:
Vettori:

source:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/conte...yer/56143.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/conte...yer/38710.html

Vettori averaged nearly 60 in 2009. He averages 50+ against Pak and has decent record against other countries too. Take out that knocks against WI and Shakib's average drops considerably. So I don't think Shakib's better than Vettori in batting as of now, let alone being much better. He might improve on that, of course.

But Shakib's bowling is awesome. He gets lots of turn and drift despite his round arm action (which is not ideal for spinners btw). Terrific bowler, much better than Vettori.

[shakibrulz]

Originally Posted by nycpro96
I don't even see how you can compare Shakib's batting with Vettori's. Vettori is completely inferior to Shakib in the batting department. Vettori might be a little better than Shakib with the ball though. But not by a whole lot.

Answered above. And really surprised to see no one rates Shakib much as a bowler. Even NZers rate Shakib higher than Vettori with the ball.

That said, Vettori was nowhere as good as Shakib when he was of his age, though.

[al Furqaan]

Originally Posted by shakibrulz
Shakib much better batsman than vettori? Disagree, Shakib as of now is not much better, but he's by far the better bowler imo.

Posted via BC Mobile Edition

i think the opposite is true. actually i think shakib is or at least will be the better bowler, batsman, fielder, captain, you name it.

however, as of now, vettori has proven himself as a bowler, more than shakib has. the numbers suggest it also. vettori is also a more intelligent bowler who picks wickets although he can't turn the ball an inch.

in the same vein, shakib is leagues better than vettori as a batsman. ODIs its not even up for discussion. tests, although the numbers suggest they're even, its plain to see DV is at his ceiling. in other words DV is a 25 average batsman who happens to be averaging 30+ right now. shakib is a 40 average batsman who happens to be averaging 30+ right now.

[Night_wolf]

Originally Posted by shakibrulz
Answered above. And really surprised to see no one rates Shakib much as a bowler. Even NZers rate Shakib higher than Vettori with the ball.

That said, Vettori was nowhere as good as Shakib when he was of his age, though.

i trust u on this but a source would be nice (i just want to read!)

[Night_wolf]

we now need a world class 1st bowler..i think rubel has all the potential to be that in the future..lets hope he doesn't do a mash..

[max410]

thank god he did not choose Ashraful in fact AS n fooool has no talent and does not deserve to play for BD , consistency is the key

[IanW]

Originally Posted by Baundule
Shakib will make any team and Tamim with a bit more control of his temper would have also done the same. Good that Siddons chose the right time to bring us in the discussion of test cricket.

But asking Australia to learn from us is lame. They are up against the red-hot English team and their key batsmen losing the form and getting injured do not make the task easy. Still they have managed to win one and draw another one remaining on commanding position. The two tests they have lost are due to their batting failure in the first innings from where they could not recover. They are sure to get things right before the world cup. If Hauritz performs well, they may be the surprise winner of the world cup as well.

The situation of Bangladesh cricket is completely different from that of the Aussies. The same medicine, whatever it is, does not apply to them. Siddons has taken the approach of developing players playing in the national team. The Aussies have much better infrastructure and their players are ready at the very first moment when they start playing international cricket. With every Australian player, not only the likes of Ponting and Clarke, form is the key, there is nothing to 'work them up' as suggested by Siddons. They are already finished products.

Bandule, 2006 just called, and thanked you for the memories.

I mean, *seriously* have you seen Australia play this year ? Two of Australia's lowest ten scores in Test cricket have happened in calendar year 2010.

[cricket_king]

Originally Posted by shakibrulz
Shakib much better batsman than vettori? Disagree, Shakib as of now is not much better, but he's by far the better bowler imo.

Posted via BC Mobile Edition

Originally Posted by nycpro96
I don't even see how you can compare Shakib's batting with Vettori's. Vettori is completely inferior to Shakib in the batting department. Vettori might be a little better than Shakib with the ball though. But not by a whole lot.

Both Shakib's batting and bowling surpasses Vettori's. Vettori is probably a little more solid when first coming in, and Shakib perhaps a little shaky initially, but when Shakib's set and on song with the bat, Vettori doesn't even come close. Bowling-wise, they bowl quite differently, so it's not easy to compare. I would say Vettori bowls slightly flatter, while Shakib likes to toss it up moreso. Either way, you only need to look at the stats - who has taken more wickets this year?

No one comes anywhere near Shakib.

[Shaan]

Mushfiq is also a good candidate for world class player title who just need to prove his batting potentiality.. We all know what a good batsman he is, just look at his recent DPL bating !!

[beshideshi]

Big up to Siddons for stating the obvious[though it will be a huge surprise to the Aus media]. Given the current state of the Australian team, Abdur Razzak will also walk in the team.
And if Australia plays test matches in Bangladesh, we might see some serious re-writing of the record books.

[IanW]

Beshideshi,

I'd pick any of Razzak, Shuvo, Enamul or even Rafique ahead of Beer or Doherty.

[shakibrulz]

Originally Posted by beshideshi
Big up to Siddons for stating the obvious[though it will be a huge surprise to the Aus media]. Given the current state of the Australian team, Abdur Razzak will also walk in the team.
And if Australia plays test matches in Bangladesh, we might see some serious re-writing of the record books.

....unless batsmen play like headless chickens, yes.

[beshideshi]

Originally Posted by shakibrulz
....unless batsmen play like headless chickens, yes.

There always is an if ......

and yes Ian, doherty, Beer, Hauritz and even Steve Smith will have a hard time finding a place in the Bangladesh team right now.

[IanW]

Originally Posted by shakibrulz
....unless batsmen play like headless chickens, yes.

If Shaiful can bowl at the top of off stump at 140, as he can, and Rubel can get it to swing both ways at 140, as he can, and if Shakib can keep it *just* there, as he can, then the sort of headless chickens that collapsed for 88 at Leeds and 98 at the MCG are more than possible.

[Baundule]

Originally Posted by Equinox
So Steven Smith, Phil Hughes, Tim Paine, Xavier Doherty are finished products? No matter how good a country's domestic structure and development program is it never fully prepares a player for International cricket. There is also something called experience. Siddons is spot on here and it fully applies to the current Australian scenario.

All those guys you mentioned (and also add Beer) are just makeshift players, they are coming in the team only to cover up injured players or as an effort to try something new. Australia certainly has finished products (Hauritz, Katich, Haddin and Hodge and David and ....) for those positions. If I read correctly, those weak links are inline with Siddons' suggestions. As per Siddons, the Aussies has to now 'develop' these or some other bunch of players, while already developed players are performing in the domestic circuit. You are right about the international experience part. But it also depends on the standard of the domestic cricket. Australia having a high standard of their domestic cricket will produce players that can (most often) survive well in the international arena. For us, the story is different, our highest run scorer may fail to survive against quality bowling.

Originally Posted by IanW
Bandule, 2006 just called, and thanked you for the memories.

I mean, *seriously* have you seen Australia play this year ? Two of Australia's lowest ten scores in Test cricket have happened in calendar year 2010.

In this year most of their batsmen are having a deep in their forms. They are used to playing attacking cricket; but that is not possible when your Ricky Ponting continues scoring 10-, Clarke can not time the ball, no opener can make it a big score and the tailenders are left with too much to do with the bat which they were not used to. The bowling looks fine, except the uncertainty about the spinner. I expected a much better performance in the World cup, because they are to include some in form players.

You can mark this post and revisit after the world cup. If only half of their batsmen can perform, they will play the world cup final.

[IanW]

Bandule,

You posted

"The Aussies have much better infrastructure and their players are ready at the very first moment when they start playing international cricket. With every Australian player, not only the likes of Ponting and Clarke, form is the key, there is nothing to 'work them up' as suggested by Siddons. They are already finished products. "

I quoted the current Australian #2 batsman, the current #6 batsman, their current #1 and #2 spinner as being totally unready for international cricket.

You then say "All those guys you mentioned (and also add Beer) are just makeshift players, they are coming in the team only to cover up injured players or as an effort to try something new."

I say the fact they arent up to international cricket - at least international cricket where pitches and balls are rigged in favour of batsmen - shows that your statement about the Australian infrastructure to be working is crap.

Something has broken, badly, in Australian cricket. It cannot currently seem to make anything other than Ahmed Aftab.

Bandule, go read the Cricinfo commentary on the Australian first innings against pakistan at Leeds, and against England at the MCG. See how absolutely similar the dismissals are to the old Bangladesh. Its the same wafts outside off stump, the same suicide running, the same refusal to work yourself in.

Thats the scary bit for me.