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  #26  
Old June 10, 2018, 02:59 PM
adamnsu adamnsu is offline
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Sarkar Rubel Mossadek and Mehedy are not t20 material.

I think it’s time BCB stop giving chances to players who have failed or too old and start giving chances to new players
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  #27  
Old June 10, 2018, 05:35 PM
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tiger1000 tiger1000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mufi_02
He was poor with the ball except today.

Shakib (having played in IPL, BBL, CPL, PSL) should lead from the front. Look at what Nabi did.

I believe he should resign from captaincy and let someone build the team in their own image.
Yh he took 1/19 in the first game
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  #28  
Old June 11, 2018, 09:30 PM
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Tausif Tausif is offline
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Players not suited for this format
Tamim Iqbal
Mosaddek Hossain
Mehedi Hasan Miraz
Rubel Hossain
Abul Hasan

Watchlist
Soumya Sarkar
Shakib Al Hasan
Ariful Haque
Abu Jayed

Solidified players/deserves more chances
Mahmudullah Riyad
Mushfiqur Rahim
Liton Das
Sabbir Rahman
Nazmul Islam Opu
Abu Haider Rony
Mustafizur Rahman

Players who should be in T20s
Anamul Haque
Zakir Hasan
Afif Hossain
Al-Amin Hossain

Honestly speaking, we do not have pure T20 players that I can think of. No one really stood out that much during BPL 17. But this is what I think how it should be.
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  #29  
Old June 12, 2018, 03:11 AM
zura zura is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tausif
Players not suited for this format
Tamim Iqbal
Mosaddek Hossain
Mehedi Hasan Miraz
Rubel Hossain
Abul Hasan

Watchlist
Soumya Sarkar
Shakib Al Hasan
Ariful Haque
Abu Jayed

Solidified players/deserves more chances
Mahmudullah Riyad
Mushfiqur Rahim
Liton Das
Sabbir Rahman
Nazmul Islam Opu
Abu Haider Rony
Mustafizur Rahman

Players who should be in T20s
Anamul Haque
Zakir Hasan
Afif Hossain
Al-Amin Hossain

Honestly speaking, we do not have pure T20 players that I can think of. No one really stood out that much during BPL 17. But this is what I think how it should be.
Putting Tamim not suited for T20 and Sarkar on the watchlist! What kind of madness is this? Tamim has been our 3rd highest scorer in the format in the last 12 months and so far the only opener to show some consistency in the format. And Liton Das as "solidified player/deserves more chances". He has been given way too many chances and hasn't shown any sign of being anywhere near a consistent performer. He is more suited to tests than LOI.
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  #30  
Old June 12, 2018, 04:17 AM
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Tausif Tausif is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zura
Putting Tamim not suited for T20 and Sarkar on the watchlist! What kind of madness is this? Tamim has been our 3rd highest scorer in the format in the last 12 months and so far the only opener to show some consistency in the format. And Liton Das as "solidified player/deserves more chances". He has been given way too many chances and hasn't shown any sign of being anywhere near a consistent performer. He is more suited to tests than LOI.
And what’s Tamim’s strike rate in those last 12 months? SR of only 115 for an opener is dismal at this format. And his career SR doesn’t differ that much either, too slow. Soumya on the other hand is 4th highest run scorer in that same period but his SR is 125+. Has scored less runs than Tamim but played like an opener should. It’s not “madness” if you check the specific stats related to this format.

Liton Das has consistency issues but he is the only opener so far who has shown any promise of using the powerplay overs to score some runs. But his issue is he throws his bat at everything and gets out but that’s nothing you can’t fix with a proper coaching staff.
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  #31  
Old June 12, 2018, 05:30 AM
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tiger1000 tiger1000 is offline
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Tamim should be given chance to rectify his style, like Mushfiq did

He needs to go big and he needs to go early, he's got plenty of power to clear the infield easily, he's developed this anchor role because of our weak middle order, but now Mushfiq and ullah have come along, he should change to a more aggressive opener that he's capable of.

Shakib is far too good not to play, he's the best bowler, he needs to average mid 20's though, makes no sense why a guy with that many shots slogs out early, he can easily be 15/15 and end up with a great innings
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  #32  
Old June 12, 2018, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger1000
Tamim should be given chance to rectify his style, like Mushfiq did

He needs to go big and he needs to go early, he's got plenty of power to clear the infield easily, he's developed this anchor role because of our weak middle order, but now Mushfiq and ullah have come along, he should change to a more aggressive opener that he's capable of.

Shakib is far too good not to play, he's the best bowler, he needs to average mid 20's though, makes no sense why a guy with that many shots slogs out early, he can easily be 15/15 and end up with a great innings
Definitely had power since he started playing but I think he has transitioned into that anchor role player full time. That is how he bats in ODIs too. He is up there with all the other openers in ODI but he has the lowest SR amongst all. Just takes time to settle in and that works in ODIs but not in T20s. Like you said he needs to go big and he needs to go big early but that almost never happens.
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  #33  
Old June 12, 2018, 06:44 AM
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tiger1000 tiger1000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tausif
Definitely had power since he started playing but I think he has transitioned into that anchor role player full time. That is how he bats in ODIs too. He is up there with all the other openers in ODI but he has the lowest SR amongst all. Just takes time to settle in and that works in ODIs but not in T20s. Like you said he needs to go big and he needs to go big early but that almost never happens.
In odis he's doing well, averages over 55 since last World Cup and we need an anchor in Odis

We don't need one in t20

He needs to be given freedom, he bat's with too much pressure, be given freedom to go over the top, risk getting out for 5, rather have that then 30 off 25 Everytime, let him try and get a quick 40/50

He needs to be scoring quickly, because younger guys can't bat with him because he can't take quick singles
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  #34  
Old June 12, 2018, 07:35 AM
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R0ssei R0ssei is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tausif
Definitely had power since he started playing but I think he has transitioned into that anchor role player full time. That is how he bats in ODIs too. He is up there with all the other openers in ODI but he has the lowest SR amongst all. Just takes time to settle in and that works in ODIs but not in T20s. Like you said he needs to go big and he needs to go big early but that almost never happens.
Apart from it, I also think that, if he changes his style to suit T20 other than rotating strike & taking singles, it will hamper his ODI and Test stats. He is not versatile enough like Kane Williamson that can fit any role.

He is doing good in other formats, let him be. A S/R of 100-115 is no good in T20, especially as an opener, even he makes 40 odd runs.

Re: SS, if he can regain some confidence, he can face any pacer of the world. Yes, he has problems with bouncers and spin. But most non-Asian teams will open the bowling with pacers and he can really dominate during the powerplay period once he gets going. That's why I want to give him few more chances.

I've talked about Mehedi Maruf for a long time b4. He should have been picked right after BPL-2016. BCB/Haturi didn't care. Now, I don't think they will ever look at him when he is over 30. He could have been our x-factor in our T20 batting.

Until we get some serious hitters for T20i with S/R over 140, we cannot improve our stats much in this format. And one of the top 3 batsmen need to produce longer innings (60+ runs) every now and then using no more than 40-42 balls.
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  #35  
Old June 12, 2018, 07:41 AM
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Tausif Tausif is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger1000
In odis he's doing well, averages over 55 since last World Cup and we need an anchor in Odis

We don't need one in t20

He needs to be given freedom, he bat's with too much pressure, be given freedom to go over the top, risk getting out for 5, rather have that then 30 off 25 Everytime, let him try and get a quick 40/50

He needs to be scoring quickly, because younger guys can't bat with him because he can't take quick singles
Yeah that’s what I meant that he has transitioned himself into an anchor role type player and he has been doing that in ODIs but that is not needed in T20s for us currently.

That’s the issue with him being an opener in T20s because he doesn’t score too quickly and can’t take quick singles. And frankly I don’t see that changing very soon that is why I put him in the ‘shouldn’t be considered’ category.

That doesn’t mean I don’t believe he can’t change his approach though, he sure can. He has changed his style in the past and I am sure he can be aggressive for T20s. That’s what we need from him and the sooner he realizes, the better for us.
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  #36  
Old June 12, 2018, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R0ssei
Apart from it, I also think that, if he changes his style to suit T20 other than rotating strike & taking singles, it will hamper his ODI and Test stats. He is not versatile enough like Kane Williamson that can fit any role.

He is doing good in other formats, let him be. A S/R of 100-115 is no good in T20, especially as an opener, even he makes 40 odd runs.
That is a very good point, I do not think he is versatile enough like Kane or Kohli and that might be the reason why he has been struggling with his approach in T20s. That is why perhaps we should be looking at other options.

Quote:
Re: SS, if he can regain some confidence, he can face any pacer of the world. Yes, he has problems with bouncers and spin. But most non-Asian teams will open the bowling with pacers and he can really dominate during the powerplay period once he gets going. That's why I want to give him few more chances.

I've talked about Mehedi Maruf for a long time b4. He should have been picked right after BPL-2016. BCB/Haturi didn't care. Now, I don't think they will ever look at him when he is over 30. He could have been our x-factor in our T20 batting.

Until we get some serious hitters for T20i with S/R over 140, we cannot improve our stats much in this format. And one of the top 3 batsmen need to produce longer innings (60+ runs) every now and then using no more than 40-42 balls.
Yeah I feel the same about SS. I think he can bat very well in the powerplays and he has proven his abilities before. Confidence and consistency is an issue with him so hopefully the new coach is able to instill some of that once he joins.

I think the likes of Liton, Mushy, Riyad, Sabbir are very much capable of striking at 140. They are all currently in the 130s range in the last 12 months. But all barring Mushy and Riyad suffer from consistency issues. That seems to be our biggest roadblock.
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  #37  
Old June 12, 2018, 08:42 AM
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tiger1000 tiger1000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tausif
That is a very good point, I do not think he is versatile enough like Kane or Kohli and that might be the reason why he has been struggling with his approach in T20s. That is why perhaps we should be looking at other options.



Yeah I feel the same about SS. I think he can bat very well in the powerplays and he has proven his abilities before. Confidence and consistency is an issue with him so hopefully the new coach is able to instill some of that once he joins.

I think the likes of Liton, Mushy, Riyad, Sabbir are very much capable of striking at 140. They are all currently in the 130s range in the last 12 months. But all barring Mushy and Riyad suffer from consistency issues. That seems to be our biggest roadblock.
Kohli and Williamson are better t20 players no doubt, because they can take quick singles, but doesn't mean Tamim can't be better than what he is, look at Gayle, he can't take a single and he's the greatest in the format, not saying he can be Gayle, but he can be Gayle lite

He can easily bludgeon his way in to 30's in the powerplay, for crying out loud look at narine, he's a blind slogger
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  #38  
Old June 12, 2018, 09:23 AM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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Here is today's lineup of currently #1 T20 team against Scotland:

Pakistan (probable): 1 Fakhar Zaman, 2 Hussain Talat, 3 Asif Ali, 4 Shoaib Malik, 5 Sarfraz Ahmed (capt & wk), 6 Mohammad Nawaz 7 Shadab Khan, 8 Faheem Ashraf, 9 Mohammad Amir/Shaheen Afridi, 10 Hasan Ali, 11 Usman Khan

How many senior players you see in the team? Three. The rest are all relatively new and young. Even Amir is still pretty young.

Our core/senior players did what they could do best (to their capability) and took us to #10 (or is it #12?).

Do you want to better than that? Then somehow we need to find new players beyond our current core players.

Its time to say thank you for your service and good bye to (most of) our core players and start giving opportunity to new players (like Zakir, Afif, etc) in T20 team and find out who will be part of our future and who is not.
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  #39  
Old June 12, 2018, 10:26 AM
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tiger1000 tiger1000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal
Here is today's lineup of currently #1 T20 team against Scotland:

Pakistan (probable): 1 Fakhar Zaman, 2 Hussain Talat, 3 Asif Ali, 4 Shoaib Malik, 5 Sarfraz Ahmed (capt & wk), 6 Mohammad Nawaz 7 Shadab Khan, 8 Faheem Ashraf, 9 Mohammad Amir/Shaheen Afridi, 10 Hasan Ali, 11 Usman Khan

How many senior players you see in the team? Three. The rest are all relatively new and young. Even Amir is still pretty young.

Our core/senior players did what they could do best (to their capability) and took us to #10 (or is it #12?).

Do you want to better than that? Then somehow we need to find new players beyond our current core players.

Its time to say thank you for your service and good bye to (most of) our core players and start giving opportunity to new players (like Zakir, Afif, etc) in T20 team and find out who will be part of our future and who is not.
What works for them doesn't mean it'll work for us

Our best players are our core group of Shakib, Ullah, Mushfiq and Tamim

Tamim is the only question mark there because there are replacements, but he should be given time to adapt his game

It's the fact that our younger players are too inconsistent

Das throws bat at everything, when he can score boundaries easily

Sarkar is all over the place

Sabbir for all his talent is an idiot

Mossadek can't bat in short format

Mehedi can't bowl in short format

Our domestic cricket is structured poorly, dead surfaces challenges no one and darters prevail

We need bouncy quick seaming pitches
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  #40  
Old June 12, 2018, 10:27 AM
zura zura is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tausif
And what’s Tamim’s strike rate in those last 12 months? SR of only 115 for an opener is dismal at this format. And his career SR doesn’t differ that much either, too slow. Soumya on the other hand is 4th highest run scorer in that same period but his SR is 125+. Has scored less runs than Tamim but played like an opener should. It’s not “madness” if you check the specific stats related to this format.

Liton Das has consistency issues but he is the only opener so far who has shown any promise of using the powerplay overs to score some runs. But his issue is he throws his bat at everything and gets out but that’s nothing you can’t fix with a proper coaching staff.
Would you rather have a player score 16 of 12 deliveries off 24 off 22 deliveries? Sarkar has been awful since South Africa and that series is only keeping his batting at a respective level. There is no point in having an opener like Liton who will score 30 in one innings and not score more than a dozen runs in the next 3. We don't want Ashraful 2.0.

The ideal situation should be use Tamim and a more aggressive partner to attack the ball. Maybe give Zakir a chance with him at the top or play Sabbir to open with Tamim.
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  #41  
Old June 12, 2018, 10:31 AM
zura zura is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal
Here is today's lineup of currently #1 T20 team against Scotland:

Pakistan (probable): 1 Fakhar Zaman, 2 Hussain Talat, 3 Asif Ali, 4 Shoaib Malik, 5 Sarfraz Ahmed (capt & wk), 6 Mohammad Nawaz 7 Shadab Khan, 8 Faheem Ashraf, 9 Mohammad Amir/Shaheen Afridi, 10 Hasan Ali, 11 Usman Khan

How many senior players you see in the team? Three. The rest are all relatively new and young. Even Amir is still pretty young.

Our core/senior players did what they could do best (to their capability) and took us to #10 (or is it #12?).

Do you want to better than that? Then somehow we need to find new players beyond our current core players.

Its time to say thank you for your service and good bye to (most of) our core players and start giving opportunity to new players (like Zakir, Afif, etc) in T20 team and find out who will be part of our future and who is not.
The whole Pakistan team is quite young. Our seniors perform better than the highly inconsistent "new blood". Even their test squad vs England is quite young and most players are under 24.
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  #42  
Old June 12, 2018, 10:45 AM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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>> What works for them doesn't mean it'll work for us
>> Our best players are our core group of Shakib, Ullah, Mushfiq and Tamim

and

>>

The whole Pakistan team is quite young. Our seniors perform better than the highly inconsistent "new blood".


Sure there is no guarantee that it will work for us, but not trying to be better is also no excuse. Shakib, Ullah, Mushfiq and Tamim are senior players, they are already giving us what they are capable of. Hopping that suddenly they would do miracle improvement is day dreaming. They will not take you to the next level. If you are happy with current performance and our current ranking (in T20), then just keep the core and the old. Are you happy? I am not.

Some young players failed does not mean you stop trying, you cut loss and move on with next in line (of-couse you take into consideration of a young reject if he shows clear sign of improvement after he is dropped). btw Afif/Zakir and few others were brougnt into the national team but was never given enough chance.

"Success is the Pillar of Failure". Just because you may fail doesn't mean you stop trying.


>> It's the fact that our younger players are too inconsistent

Expecting a young players to perform in consistent basis rarely happends. It didnt happened with our current
core group (of Shakib, Ullah, Mushfiq and Tamim), They slowly developed over time with experience. Expecting instant success from young players is stupidity and unrealistic. What we need to see is are they developing and learning from their mistakes or not... that's important. If they don't, drop them (for now) and try someone else in line and let them (dropped young player), fix his problem outside the national team. But you need to give your young player enough try before dropping him. But we are not doing that, we are bringing some new players and dropping them too early. that's not helpful developing a player.
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  #43  
Old June 12, 2018, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal
>> What works for them doesn't mean it'll work for us
>> Our best players are our core group of Shakib, Ullah, Mushfiq and Tamim

and

>>

The whole Pakistan team is quite young. Our seniors perform better than the highly inconsistent "new blood".


Sure there is no guarantee that it will work for us, but not trying to be better is also no excuse. Shakib, Ullah, Mushfiq and Tamim are senior players, they are already giving us what they are capable of. Hopping that suddenly they would do miracle improvement is day dreaming. They will not take you to the next level. If you are happy with current performance and our current ranking (in T20), then just keep the core and the old. Are you happy? I am not.

Some young players failed does not mean you stop trying, you cut loss and move on with next in line (of-couse you take into consideration of a young reject if he shows clear sign of improvement after he is dropped). btw Afif/Zakir and few others were brougnt into the national team but was never given enough chance.

"Success is the Pillar of Failure". Just because you may fail doesn't mean you stop trying.


>> It's the fact that our younger players are too inconsistent

Expecting a young players to perform in consistent basis rarely happends. It didnt happened with our current
core group (of Shakib, Ullah, Mushfiq and Tamim), They slowly developed over time with experience. Expecting instant success from young players is stupidity and unrealistic. What we need to see is are they developing and learning from their mistakes or not... that's important. If they don't, drop them (for now) and try someone else in line and let them (dropped young player), fix his problem outside the national team. But you need to give your young player enough try before dropping him. But we are not doing that, we are bringing some new players and dropping them too early. that's not helpful developing a player.
You can't drop the performers hoping young ones play well, it's the seniors role to provide foundation, but the young ones need to win it, that's how it always works

For example, Mehedi won vs England Because foundation was there.
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  #44  
Old June 12, 2018, 05:39 PM
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aklemalp aklemalp is offline
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T20 is not real cricket.

So it's obvious you play a totally different team than the one you play in real cricket (Test).
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  #45  
Old June 12, 2018, 06:39 PM
DinRaat. DinRaat. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger1000
What works for them doesn't mean it'll work for us

Our best players are our core group of Shakib, Ullah, Mushfiq and Tamim

Tamim is the only question mark there because there are replacements, but he should be given time to adapt his game

It's the fact that our younger players are too inconsistent

Das throws bat at everything, when he can score boundaries easily

Sarkar is all over the place

Sabbir for all his talent is an idiot

Mossadek can't bat in short format

Mehedi can't bowl in short format

Our domestic cricket is structured poorly, dead surfaces challenges no one and darters prevail

We need bouncy quick seaming pitches
If thats our best set of players, then we are only going down, not up in this format. Maybe we can get away with a few more years with the solid 4, but thats about it, we either find replacements or become the next zimbabwe in a few years time.
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  #46  
Old June 13, 2018, 05:19 AM
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tiger1000 tiger1000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DinRaat.
If thats our best set of players, then we are only going down, not up in this format. Maybe we can get away with a few more years with the solid 4, but thats about it, we either find replacements or become the next zimbabwe in a few years time.
We're losing because young players are not performing, if they did, we would win

If we need replacements, it's replacement for those younger players like Sabbir who doesn't perform
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  #47  
Old June 13, 2018, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DinRaat.
If thats our best set of players, then we are only going down, not up in this format. Maybe we can get away with a few more years with the solid 4, but thats about it, we either find replacements or become the next zimbabwe in a few years time.
You are too generous if you say we will get away with a few more years even with the solid 4 players ,some of whom are more fragile (mind the pun).

We wont get away as our batsman really are not capable of regular power hitting and constantly rotating strike that is why we are bottom of the table really.
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  #48  
Old June 13, 2018, 06:45 AM
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R0ssei R0ssei is offline
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^
True. Our basics are flawed. Quick singles, rotating strike, fitness are imperative in T20. We lack seriously in all these. On top of that, we neither have technically sound batsmen nor power hitters. We only have 2 fixed T20 bowlers (Shak & Fizz) and one of them is injured half the year. Opu is only doing well recently.

Yes, as aklemalp is always saying. T20 isn't real, meaning it's not Test cricket; but it's also the future. While only 4 spots are taken by the seniors, the rest of the 7 spots are open for youngsters. But none of them can perform on somewhat regular basis let alone become a Kohli or a Kane or a Hasan Ali...
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  #49  
Old June 13, 2018, 07:00 AM
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Mushfiqur has started to perform well in the t20s only recently. Mahmudullah has been good for some time. Tamim has to improve his strike rate. Sabbir was very consistent when he started his t20 career but his form has dipped recently. In order to play well in the t20s they have to perform as a team.

None of the Bangladeshi openers in the BPL has a strike rate over 130. BCB shouldn't solely rely on bpl as it allows the opportunity to only a limited number of players. There should be a t20 competition for the local cricketers only(they used to have a tournament called victory day t20 cup before the bpl started). They also have to prepare better pitches for these tournaments.
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Old June 13, 2018, 07:40 AM
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tiger1000 tiger1000 is offline
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Join Date: February 23, 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R0ssei
^
True. Our basics are flawed. Quick singles, rotating strike, fitness are imperative in T20. We lack seriously in all these. On top of that, we neither have technically sound batsmen nor power hitters. We only have 2 fixed T20 bowlers (Shak & Fizz) and one of them is injured half the year. Opu is only doing well recently.

Yes, as aklemalp is always saying. T20 isn't real, meaning it's not Test cricket; but it's also the future. While only 4 spots are taken by the seniors, the rest of the 7 spots are open for youngsters. But none of them can perform on somewhat regular basis let alone become a Kohli or a Kane or a Hasan Ali...
Our fielding and running between wickets costs us 20 runs per innings, if we did those right we could have won Asia Cup, would have gone into semi finals of World T20, we would have won nihandas or whatever it was called trophy and thrashed Afghanistan

Our players are retarded Shakib is quite clearly our best player even in his weakest format in t20 and he's completely retarded with the bat, bat's like a tail ender, when he's such a good rotator of strike and has many boundary scoring shots along the ground

Mushfiq and ullah are the only two that bat sensibly and back themselves to take time
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