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  #51  
Old February 21, 2006, 03:44 PM
rudro rudro is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spitfire_x86
You're focusing only on last few matches, which are very small in number to judge a player. All of my comparisons were based on career achievements (except "Pilot's record since 2002")
I agree the numbers are small. But what should we count here, recent matches or alltime record? If alltime record speaks for a player's ability to play in the current team, then teams like west indies would have digged out dead players to play in the current team.
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  #52  
Old February 21, 2006, 03:52 PM
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Tigers_eye Tigers_eye is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spitfire_x86
You're focusing only on last few matches, which are very small in number to judge a player. All of my comparisons were based on career achievements (except "Pilot's record since 2002")
Yes sir,
If nafeez Iqbal scored less than 20 in 4 outings he is labelled as out of form. Let him play with the A team/ Domestic Cricket etc. Drop him from the team is echoed every where. No matter how he got out. Biased we are. Ash didn't score significant in 9 outings and still he is inform. Otherwise, what is the justification?

Believe me, if we were slightly competitive I wouldn't ask for JO in our team. To compete we must be able to play 50 overs. Our super stars are not worth more than the other players as they are potrayed.
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  #53  
Old February 21, 2006, 04:09 PM
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pagol-chagol pagol-chagol is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cats_eye
Popular belief vs. Reality

Since everyone thinks Ash is the best batsmen (ODI and test) and JO is the worst kind...
Some Head to head stats between JO and Ash

Last nine international outings stats: (excluding Bd-SL current series) Both played in all matches.

Ash
runs (Balls)
0(1)
7(4)
4(4)
31(54)
0(3)
17(63)
0(1)
42(41)
26(80)
Total: 108(271) Avg of 12. SR 39.8 %

JO
runs (Balls)
81(150)
0(10)
14(16)
18(36)
18(26)
30(48)
9(6)
18(33)
9(19)
Total: 197(344) Avg of 21.8. SR 57.26%

Perception is Ash is a much better ball stricker than JO. However, in the recent outings it shows just the opposite. The poor kid is out of form for how many months? Since the 3 back to back luck filled innings in England. We all know how he performed in Test against England. Here more stats for you guys.

Ash: 1st Test (against England)
6(9)
2(7)
2nd Test
3(9)
12(31)
Total: 23(56) Avg of 5.75. SR: who cares when you have less than 6 average and claim 2nd down position?

JO: 1st Test (against England)
22(60)
25(44)
2nd Test
37(83)
71(108)
Total: 155(295) Avg of 38.75. SR 52.5%.

Popular belief, Hah!! a joke. Drop Ash after this series. Nine innings an no fifty with 12 avg.
Pretty good thumping of Ashraful. JO is in too good of a form to be out of the team. He and Tikolo were the only two dominating performer in the league this year.

Here is a comparison I just ran on cricifo comparing Ashraful and Golla. Took out HongKong game.
CI Comparison

Actually Ashraful has scored about 10 more runs/game than Golla in the last 20 games if you take out Asia-Africa game.

It looks like Ashraful really sucked in the beginning of his career and only recently started to average over 25. Golla has been averaging 17 in the last 20 games. If thats his ceiling at this age, may be its time for us to let him go. He had an amazing England tour though. And he always comes through when his back is against the wall. So expect something big on Wednesday from him.

Edited on, February 21, 2006, 9:49 PM GMT, by Ahmed_B.
Reason: Fixed Link
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  #54  
Old February 21, 2006, 04:19 PM
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Tigers_eye Tigers_eye is offline
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Bhai'rey (Pagol-chagol),
Ami ki dosh korsi jey apney amar beloon futa korchen?

Anyways, Good luck to both of them and pray and hope they perform well and win the next one or atleast be very competitive.
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  #55  
Old February 21, 2006, 04:19 PM
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Ahmed_B Ahmed_B is offline
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Default Lets take a more detailed look....

Here is a complete picture of the last 15 innings (assuming that recent innings matter most to determine 'form') played by our top-order batsmen. Practically, I see no real difference between them in terms of runs scored or averages or even consistancy. All of them are equally inconsistant and low-averaged. Perhaps the reason why we consider JO or Pilot or Bashar to be more reliable is because they take more time to settle and play more balls than others. And surely that is one good reason why their strike-rates will be lower than the strokemakers. In this way... having a low average and a high strike rate, like Ash does, is pretty much harmful for the team as well... because it leaves the team under pressure instantly.



I would like to add the following assumptions as well:

1-Higher or Midium Average with High strike rate = Highly productive Batsman and a matchwinner on most occassions

2-Midium Average with Average/Low strike rate = Usefull batsman (in BD context) but possibly never a matchwinner

3-Midium/Lower Average with High/Average strike rate = Probably the least usefull one.

Edited on, February 21, 2006, 9:31 PM GMT, by Ahmed_B.
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  #56  
Old February 21, 2006, 04:19 PM
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Shafin Shafin is offline
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One thing is for sure,Golla is not anyway a match winner which ash is,so if we need our team to win,we need more of ash,not golla,as there is nothing like the so called shommnjonok har.
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  #57  
Old February 21, 2006, 04:24 PM
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Spitfire_x86 Spitfire_x86 is offline
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(in reply to Cat's_Eye)

Nafees Iqbal's achievement in last 1.5 years was nowhere near Ashraful's achievements against quality sides in both Test and ODI. I only made comparisons among the players who are in the current squad, and all my references were strictly limited to ODIs. But you had to mix Test and ODI records.

We have not been competitive at all in too many matches during in couple of years. And Javed played many ODIs in last couple of years. The objective should be moving forward, not moving backwards or standing still. This is why I think dropping Javed and experimenting with Rajin was a right decision. He opened innings in his last few ODIs and in this domestic season. He was metally prepared to do the job, giving him just one chance isn't fair. If he became successful, then it could've been good for both him and the team. His place in the middle order is not very secure anymore, and the players like Mushfiq are pushing hard for a position in middle order. Flexibility can save Rajin from turning into another Hannan in near future.

If you're really curious, then I'll bring up real facts in time which will hopefully prove me right about my educated guess (that there's no relation between Javed's contribution and batting full 50 overs/scoring 200+)
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  #58  
Old February 21, 2006, 04:38 PM
rudro rudro is offline
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One thing for sure from those graphs is that no one has improved his/her game. They are all inconsistent. Once in a while their score jumped to the average of a decent one-day player of a team like IND or AUS but dropped sharply in the next game.
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  #59  
Old February 21, 2006, 04:41 PM
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Tigers_eye Tigers_eye is offline
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Spitfire_x16 bhai,
I have no issue with Rajin. His game more emulates Golla than Ash. I just think Ash is immensely talented but his head is not in the game. It would do good for the team if he is to sit for a series. He did come with evengence earlier in his career. Against a team like SL (without 3 regular players) we should at least be competitive. Not be able to play out 50 overs batting first, bothers me more than the 118 low score.

Please do not go through the trouble to bring up real stats. I believe you.

My personal preference: Test over ODI anyday of the week. So I tend to like golla type players who can grind. Not Ash/Aftab/Bashar the Smash masters. making a boundary and out in the next ball. The bowlers have the last laugh.
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  #60  
Old February 21, 2006, 11:44 PM
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Electrequiem Electrequiem is offline
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so any live video feeds today brothers?
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  #61  
Old February 21, 2006, 11:44 PM
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Electrequiem Electrequiem is offline
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so any live video feeds today brothers?
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  #62  
Old February 21, 2006, 11:57 PM
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irteja irteja is offline
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this is not match treat
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  #63  
Old February 22, 2006, 12:30 AM
himu himu is offline
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Animated live score:

http://www.tigercricket.com/cricketlive.htm
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  #64  
Old February 22, 2006, 12:39 AM
himu himu is offline
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Heres the live link:

http://www.bangladeshlive.net/1050891.html
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  #65  
Old February 22, 2006, 06:02 AM
Tushar1970 Tushar1970 is offline
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We Won!!!

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  #66  
Old February 22, 2006, 07:11 PM
ToeCrusher ToeCrusher is offline
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Numbers are just that. Totally depends on how you interpret them. Only thing that counts is how many do you score and at what strike rate. I think most of the contributors are presenting numbers to suit their arguments.
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  #67  
Old February 23, 2006, 01:33 PM
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pagol-chagol pagol-chagol is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by pagol-chagol
Golla has been averaging 17 in the last 20 games. If thats his ceiling at this age, may be its time for us to let him go. He had an amazing England tour though. And he always comes through when his back is against the wall. So expect something big on Wednesday from him.
I had to gloat. It was easy though. Golla always comes through after not making the 11. So does Rana.

Here is another prediction. Easier one. Srilanka will blow us away in the 3rd game. At least one century for them. May be 2.
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  #68  
Old February 23, 2006, 04:37 PM
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Tigers_eye Tigers_eye is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by pagol-chagol
Here is another prediction. Easier one. Srilanka will blow us away in the 3rd game. At least one century for them. May be 2.
Pagol-chagol manush abol tabol tho bokbei. Only natural
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  #69  
Old March 17, 2006, 10:02 AM
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Spitfire_x86 Spitfire_x86 is offline
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I think it's time to bump this thread. He played only 3 matches since this thread, so the figures are still quite accurate.

JO is not international class at all. He's not a good opener, he's not a good batsman for either Test or ODI. He bats like a nightwatchman, but still has a huge fanbase which thinks he's the most reliable batsman we have.
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  #70  
Old March 17, 2006, 10:12 AM
nayef nayef is offline
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reliable or not... i think we shud give him 35% credit for the opening partnership of 92 {27% for the runs and 8% for sticking out there and not throwing his wkt}.

he's definitely not world class... but did a job asked for by the captain and coach.

ofcourse this leads to questions of why he's called reliable and not others.. which cant exactly be explained in numbers... Ashraful ... even when in total control makes ur heart leap to ur mouth... but JO gives u a false sense of security... hence the talk of "reliabililty"!
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  #71  
Old March 17, 2006, 11:39 AM
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Sovik Sovik is offline
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he scored 26 runs against toothless bowling. there was not a hint of swing.


anyone ever seen javed playing a pull shot, coz doesn't have the reflex.


sooner or later we have to leave him out, so why not now. this is the right time, all the batsman are in good touch. and we could play our much loved mushfiq rahim.


but 1 thing. i may not like javed's batting but i am a big fan of his fielding. and i think bd team should learn something from him
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  #72  
Old March 17, 2006, 12:29 PM
mafizraju mafizraju is offline
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Spitfire, seems like you are realy up against Javed Omar. did u promise not to sleep till javed gets out of the team? good to see such a great conviction and even better when it inspires you that much. Gotta love you Mate.!

Now I am not a huge fan of Javed but nonetheless I am one of the Javed pushers. When all other batsmen are stroking out its hard to understand why Javed is fishing and shuffling. His todays innigs seemed like he is out of water. He is much better batsman in a bit faster pitch where his push doesnot need to be as hard to score. But still I am not willing ot write him off or kick him out. If the rest of the batsmen can improve their consistency only then I would think he doesnot have a place in the team. But blaming soulely for all the awful performances of the team is not a good approach. He tries hard to fit in even in the new dimension of all stroke making bd batsmen. but he lacks strokes for sure, he becomes awafuly contained when the fielding restriction is not there. but still he is safer (dont know whether its a better) bet in the oppening slot. Nafis Iqbal is out of form, Hannan doesnot seem like invited, Rokon is completely ignored, who else can open. I am against all kind of testing and proving. A team can have the luxyry to test when they know there are 10 more players to make a difference. We dont know that yet. If there is any such potential (if rokon gets included and proves himself or Nafis sorts out his game or hannan comes back dont want to include U19 players since I beleive they need few more years) surely Javed is a goner. but untill that time come he should be entrusted. he may be able to score 19/20 in a 92 run partnership but certainly the time spent on the crease and to see off the new ball will give much comfort in the dressing room. If he can continue to have scores in 20ies and able to give company to one or two top order partnerships I am okay to keep him. And if he is a goner in year and a half surely we will have nafis or who ever who is year and half more mature and worked hard year and half more to be included in the team. That benefits the team. Btw Rokon should have been given a chance
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