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  #1776  
Old October 22, 2019, 06:29 AM
iDumb iDumb is offline
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all of you guys have money to fly business/first class? then go for it. I never flew anything beside economy mainly because the pricing for business and first classes are ridiculous for the little "comfort" that they provide. I guess if you can flatten seats and sleep - thats significant in long flight but the
price difference would be in thousands.. not hundreds - thousoands dollars. How many of you worked extra with lack of sleep to earn some more money...

unless you or your family owns some multi national business.. you are multimulti millionaire - i don't get the point of this discussion.

and there are some credit card point system gamers - that's different story.. not worth it either for me.
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  #1777  
Old October 22, 2019, 06:30 AM
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all of you guys have money to fly business/first class? then go for it. I never flew anything beside economy mainly because the pricing for business and first classes are ridiculous for the little "comfort" that they provide. I guess if you can flatten seats and sleep - thats significant in long flight but the
price difference would be in thousands.. not hundreds - thousoands dollars. How many of you worked extra with lack of sleep to earn some more money...

unless you or your family owns some multi national business.. you are multimulti millionaire - i don't get the point of this discussion.

and there are some credit card point system gamers - that's different story.. not worth it either for me.
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  #1778  
Old October 22, 2019, 08:24 AM
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Purchased economy ticket - then applied for upgrade through optiontown.

Signup fee is $3, upgrade price is about 75% original buss class ticket minus econ price. Whether I get upgrade or not, sign up fee is not refundable.
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  #1779  
Old October 22, 2019, 08:31 AM
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I btw randomly got upgraded to Qatar Airways business class about four times - such a pleasant surprise. Here are few pics from the last FREE upgrade I got We bangalis only like when it is free

















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  #1780  
Old October 22, 2019, 08:31 AM
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BTW, my personal opinion is Qatar Airways economy class food is better than business class food.

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  #1781  
Old October 22, 2019, 08:35 AM
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ToBeFair ToBeFair is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iDumb
all of you guys have money to fly business/first class? then go for it. I never flew anything beside economy mainly because the pricing for business and first classes are ridiculous for the little "comfort" that they provide. I guess if you can flatten seats and sleep - thats significant in long flight but the
price difference would be in thousands.. not hundreds - thousoands dollars. How many of you worked extra with lack of sleep to earn some more money...

unless you or your family owns some multi national business.. you are multimulti millionaire - i don't get the point of this discussion.

and there are some credit card point system gamers - that's different story.. not worth it either for me.
Hey, Biman business class ticket sometimes is cheaper than econ class ticket of other world class airlines.

Plus if you purchase business class ticket, you also get to enjoy the lounge
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  #1782  
Old October 22, 2019, 04:12 PM
iDumb iDumb is offline
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So you are sharing food pics? LOL. I don't understand this "luxury". If I can't completely sleep in a flat bed, it's all same crap.

Last time i checked the price for a first class flight it was 6K and my econ ticket was 800 dollars. So I said - LOL.
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  #1783  
Old October 22, 2019, 04:13 PM
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If I wanna have a proper fancy meal i go to restaurant not a plane.
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  #1784  
Old October 22, 2019, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToBeFair
Looks like a crap seat for first class. ppl's 3rd class 20 years old car have better seats.
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  #1785  
Old October 22, 2019, 05:13 PM
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Shingara Shingara is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iDumb
Looks like a crap seat for first class. ppl's 3rd class 20 years old car have better seats.
US first class = Middle East Business class.
Middle East First class or even higher Etihad's The Residence are miles above.
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  #1786  
Old October 22, 2019, 05:28 PM
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Shingara Shingara is offline
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idumb,
I paid for and flew Business class only once in my life few years ago. LHR > BD return cost me £1500. Economy is usually £450 for same route. It was just for the experience.

I often got upgraded to Business class for free from Dhaka to AbuDhabi multiple times , when I held my Etihad silver membership ( courtesy of Etihad AMEX card).

Let me share my pics too































AbuDhabi Al-Reem lounge ( poor compared to Business or First class lounges in AbuDhabi )





This is what was served on Biman's 777 Business class :

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  #1787  
Old October 22, 2019, 05:31 PM
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Shingara Shingara is offline
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Etihad Business class has a A la Carte menu. You can order food whenever you like as much as you want from a selection of sandwiches and ice-creams.
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  #1788  
Old October 23, 2019, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iDumb
Looks like a crap seat for first class. ppl's 3rd class 20 years old car have better seats.
You are just jealous - grapes are sour
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  #1789  
Old October 23, 2019, 02:14 PM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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Do Baiman offer cha and Shingara in Business class?
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  #1790  
Old November 5, 2019, 02:11 PM
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R0ssei R0ssei is offline
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I absolutely hate flying 19-20 hour (Toronto to Dhaka) in econ class. When I was a student, used to think that I would fly buss someday....never happened as I have to pay for 4 now...grrrrrr

Never got upgraded either although my wife got once with my Etihad points...grrrrrr

In fact I never get good deals either.
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  #1791  
Old November 5, 2019, 02:49 PM
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Tigers_eye Tigers_eye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R0ssei
I absolutely hate flying 19-20 hour (Toronto to Dhaka) in econ class. When I was a student, used to think that I would fly buss someday....never happened as I have to pay for 4 now...grrrrrr

Never got upgraded either although my wife got once with my Etihad points...grrrrrr

In fact I never get good deals either.
How convenient. My first trip to US: 1. Dhaka to Bangkok (over night stay there), 2. Bangkok to Taipei, 3. Taipei to Tokyo, 4. Tokyo to Seattle, 5. Seattle to Salt Lake city, 6. Salt Lake City to Minneapolis, 7. Minneapolis to Souix City (and lost my only luggage). 2 and a half days later....
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  #1792  
Old November 11, 2019, 02:35 PM
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R0ssei R0ssei is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
How convenient. My first trip to US: 1. Dhaka to Bangkok (over night stay there), 2. Bangkok to Taipei, 3. Taipei to Tokyo, 4. Tokyo to Seattle, 5. Seattle to Salt Lake city, 6. Salt Lake City to Minneapolis, 7. Minneapolis to Souix City (and lost my only luggage). 2 and a half days later....
My first trip to Canada when I was 19:

1a. Dhaka to London
My dad dropped me off at Dhaka airport. Damn BA flight did not fly due to heavy fog. I was put in a shitty hotel, called home, Dad picked me up and went home.
1b. Dhaka to London (2nd attempt)
So, I had my see-off crying episode for the 2nd time with mom. Off to airport again.
2. London to Montreal
Obviously I couldn't catch the scheduled flight from LHR. Over-night stay in London, 0C with only a fall jacket. Next day, BA attendant made me open my check-in bag to reduce 2 kgs. Had to take 1 pair of boots out and put in my backpack. Reached Montreal after 42+ hr delay.
Mom gave some food and customs opened all my bags. I was told I'm being added to a blacklist, I said I don't give a s***; just let me go.
3. Montreal to Windsor
My cousin picked me up, stayed at his place overnight and then took a 11-hr train journey to Windsor.

After like 4 days, I reached my final destination. Things happen to everyone I suppose.
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  #1793  
Old November 13, 2019, 11:43 AM
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Tigers_eye Tigers_eye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R0ssei
My first trip to Canada when I was 19:

1a. Dhaka to London
My dad dropped me off at Dhaka airport. Damn BA flight did not fly due to heavy fog. I was put in a shitty hotel, called home, Dad picked me up and went home.
1b. Dhaka to London (2nd attempt)
So, I had my see-off crying episode for the 2nd time with mom. Off to airport again.
2. London to Montreal
Obviously I couldn't catch the scheduled flight from LHR. Over-night stay in London, 0C with only a fall jacket. Next day, BA attendant made me open my check-in bag to reduce 2 kgs. Had to take 1 pair of boots out and put in my backpack. Reached Montreal after 42+ hr delay.
Mom gave some food and customs opened all my bags. I was told I'm being added to a blacklist, I said I don't give a s***; just let me go.
3. Montreal to Windsor
My cousin picked me up, stayed at his place overnight and then took a 11-hr train journey to Windsor.

After like 4 days, I reached my final destination. Things happen to everyone I suppose.
May be we need to open a new thread to compile everyone's travel experience. It would be a great read.
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  #1794  
Old November 16, 2019, 08:11 PM
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When I was returning from Umrah, I arrived late for check-in and couldn't catch my flight. Being the start of Ramadan, hotel prices had sky-rocketed. I ended staying in Jeddah airport for 24 hrs. The only food source was a single mediocre restaurant.
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  #1795  
Old May 3, 2020, 11:56 PM
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zman zman is offline
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I'm trying to get objective answers to a couple of questions regarding the Quran. Please do not start unnecessary fights and refrain from making any derogatory remarks here. If Mods anticipate any of that please feel free to delete this topic.

1) What is the oldest version of the written Quran that exists in it's entirety today?
2) Is there any difference between the oldest version and the current version? If so how much?

According to Islamic traditions, Uthman (RA) collected the different versions of the Quran and destroyed all of them save one. The destroyed versions were essentially written in different dialects. Uthman (RA) codified this version after ensuring authenticity, ordered 10 copies of this version to be sent to diff parts of the Islamic world to maintain uniformity.

According to scientific studies these are the 7 oldest versions of the Quran that appear to have been verified by carbon dating:
https://www.oldest.org/religion/qurans/

When you pose these questions, the answers you get generally fall in one of two extreme categories. The devout muslim will tell you the Quran hasn't changed, it's been preserved through memorization and passed down from generation to generation. On the other hand, the anti-muslim will tell you the Quran was changed from the get go, there are many different versions of the Quran today, etc. I'm not interested in any of these.

I'm interested in objective answers that can be verified. Going by recent history, the Quran was officially canonized in Cairo in 1924. I'm sure there are much older versions of the Quran that are identical to this 1924 version. Any idea how old that Quran is? Where does it exist?
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  #1796  
Old June 11, 2020, 10:30 AM
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ToBeFair ToBeFair is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zman
I'm trying to get objective answers to a couple of questions regarding the Quran. Please do not start unnecessary fights and refrain from making any derogatory remarks here. If Mods anticipate any of that please feel free to delete this topic.

1) What is the oldest version of the written Quran that exists in it's entirety today?
2) Is there any difference between the oldest version and the current version? If so how much?

According to Islamic traditions, Uthman (RA) collected the different versions of the Quran and destroyed all of them save one. The destroyed versions were essentially written in different dialects. Uthman (RA) codified this version after ensuring authenticity, ordered 10 copies of this version to be sent to diff parts of the Islamic world to maintain uniformity.

According to scientific studies these are the 7 oldest versions of the Quran that appear to have been verified by carbon dating:
https://www.oldest.org/religion/qurans/

When you pose these questions, the answers you get generally fall in one of two extreme categories. The devout muslim will tell you the Quran hasn't changed, it's been preserved through memorization and passed down from generation to generation. On the other hand, the anti-muslim will tell you the Quran was changed from the get go, there are many different versions of the Quran today, etc. I'm not interested in any of these.

I'm interested in objective answers that can be verified. Going by recent history, the Quran was officially canonized in Cairo in 1924. I'm sure there are much older versions of the Quran that are identical to this 1924 version. Any idea how old that Quran is? Where does it exist?
Came across the following playlist - 98 lectures - almost 50 hours of academic lecture on the preservation of Quran.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...agObVSuob98Ejc

Recently there has been a renewed call from orientalists and Christian apologetics to prove Quran has not been preserved properly. Their attempt intensified after an email of Yasir Qadhi was leaked on the topic of ahruf.

The path to the truth is arduous. We need to have the correct intention, do research and work hard, and not fall for reactionary materials from propagandists.
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  #1797  
Old June 11, 2020, 11:07 AM
HereWeGo HereWeGo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zman
I'm trying to get objective answers to a couple of questions regarding the Quran. Please do not start unnecessary fights and refrain from making any derogatory remarks here. If Mods anticipate any of that please feel free to delete this topic.

1) What is the oldest version of the written Quran that exists in it's entirety today?
2) Is there any difference between the oldest version and the current version? If so how much?

According to Islamic traditions, Uthman (RA) collected the different versions of the Quran and destroyed all of them save one. The destroyed versions were essentially written in different dialects. Uthman (RA) codified this version after ensuring authenticity, ordered 10 copies of this version to be sent to diff parts of the Islamic world to maintain uniformity.

According to scientific studies these are the 7 oldest versions of the Quran that appear to have been verified by carbon dating:
https://www.oldest.org/religion/qurans/

When you pose these questions, the answers you get generally fall in one of two extreme categories. The devout muslim will tell you the Quran hasn't changed, it's been preserved through memorization and passed down from generation to generation. On the other hand, the anti-muslim will tell you the Quran was changed from the get go, there are many different versions of the Quran today, etc. I'm not interested in any of these.

I'm interested in objective answers that can be verified. Going by recent history, the Quran was officially canonized in Cairo in 1924. I'm sure there are much older versions of the Quran that are identical to this 1924 version. Any idea how old that Quran is? Where does it exist?
You have to first define what you mean by preserved.

As a muslim I was taught " Quran is preserved, every word is sacred. No one can change a single word of the Quran. Quran bought during all ages and all times from everywhere will have 100% matching text"

The above quote that was taught to me in my home and in school is ABSOLUTELY FALSE. There are different narrations of Quran, Hafs and Warsh being the most prominent. There are many dissimilarities between the two narrations.

Once Uthman initiated and completed the compilation of the Quran, he ordered any variant from his compilation to be destroyed. Now that does not sound like being preserved either. For example, I have an Engineering text book that gets a new version every few years. Now if the author manages to convince people to burn all his older versions of the book, it does not necessarily mean that a variant never existed.

Anyways that is my 2 cents.
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  #1798  
Old June 11, 2020, 01:12 PM
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ToBeFair ToBeFair is offline
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Hafs and Warsh are two prominent qiraat among the still existing ten qiraat of Quran. Different qiraat absolutely do not refer to different versions of the Quran - and the Muslim scholarship unanimously agree about it.

The grey area exists among the following matters:

- the definition of ahruf. What is afruf and what is the reality of ahruf? Many authentic traditions mention that the Quran has been revealed in seven ahruf. How do you define ahruf?

- what is the correlation between ahruf and various authentic qiraat (styles of recitation)?

Dr. Yasir Qadhi was asked recently about this grey area in a recent interview and he admitted that this grey area exists.

https://youtu.be/8Dc1HJ8Uif4

Pseudo orientalists like Jay Smith and the likes promote in youtube that Quran has different versions or that Quran has not been preserved based on different qiraat. This shows the shallowness of their knowledge. This also tells something about their intention.

The playlist that I have posted above addresses the issue of ahruf in Episode 17 (12 parts).

Anyway, we are are used to Hafs recitation but warsh is a beautiful recitation. One of my favorite Warsh reciter is Shaykh Hisham Al-Harraz. Here is a clip:

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  #1799  
Old June 12, 2020, 05:42 AM
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zman zman is offline
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There is no doubt the preservation techniques used by early muslims were phenomenal. The methodical approaches and investigative frameworks may have contributed to the rise of the scientific era in eighth century Andalusia. I also don't deny that the different Qiraat and Ahruf don't take much away from the Quran, if anything they probably add more dimensions and depth to its meaning. However I like to think religion is a matter of faith while science is the knowledge of worldly facts. It irks me when I see many muslims going overboard just to prove that the Quran is the most scientific book of all time.

Just as folks like Jay Smith try to promote that there are different versions of the Quran, a lot of muslims try to claim that the Topkapi manuscript is the earliest version of the Quran, it was compiled during the time of Uthman (RA) and no alterations have been made to it since. Among many other things this type of refutable claims make muslims look bad. I'm trying to understand if this claim is correct at all.

Even if we were to accept that premise for the sake of argument, there seems to be some minor discrepancies (7 or 8) between the Topkapi version and today's version. It is possible that ancient versions of the Quran do not exist in their entirety today. A possible explanation could be that muslims were content with the strength of their preservation techniques and focused more on memorizing and printing new copies of the Quran, so they didn't feel the need to preserve the most ancient copy per se. We just need to know the facts and answers to these questions. Not getting to the bottom of these matters only adds to the confusion.
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  #1800  
Old June 12, 2020, 11:06 AM
HereWeGo HereWeGo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zman
There is no doubt the preservation techniques used by early muslims were phenomenal. The methodical approaches and investigative frameworks may have contributed to the rise of the scientific era in eighth century Andalusia. I also don't deny that the different Qiraat and Ahruf don't take much away from the Quran, if anything they probably add more dimensions and depth to its meaning. However I like to think religion is a matter of faith while science is the knowledge of worldly facts. It irks me when I see many muslims going overboard just to prove that the Quran is the most scientific book of all time.

Just as folks like Jay Smith try to promote that there are different versions of the Quran, a lot of muslims try to claim that the Topkapi manuscript is the earliest version of the Quran, it was compiled during the time of Uthman (RA) and no alterations have been made to it since. Among many other things this type of refutable claims make muslims look bad. I'm trying to understand if this claim is correct at all.

Even if we were to accept that premise for the sake of argument, there seems to be some minor discrepancies (7 or 8) between the Topkapi version and today's version. It is possible that ancient versions of the Quran do not exist in their entirety today. A possible explanation could be that muslims were content with the strength of their preservation techniques and focused more on memorizing and printing new copies of the Quran, so they didn't feel the need to preserve the most ancient copy per se. We just need to know the facts and answers to these questions. Not getting to the bottom of these matters only adds to the confusion.

What do you mean by "Preserved"? You need to answer that first.

Do you mean "every word" is preserved?
The answer is a definite "NO". There are different recitation of Quran. Hafs being the most predominant, while Warsh is the most common in Northern Africa. Please note, they are all considered equally authentic.

Do you mean the "Meaning" is preserved?

The answer is again a definite "NO".
Quran 7:141 - There is a word "Yuqatiloon" (they fought) in Hafs and "Yaqtaloon" (they got killed) in Warsh. Different meaning. Why would God produce same verses but with different meaning and consider both authentic? Why would human consider that to be preserved?

Worst still
Quran 2:184 - In "Hafs", the God asks to feed ONE poor person when you miss your fast. In "Warsh" the same God asks to feed many poor people if you miss your fast. So which is correct? What should Muslims follow? They both cannot be correct.
This is not what "Preserved" entails.

Anyways, Finally you can make the point that the "Sentiment" is preserved, may be.... Or like most muslims use some abstract philosophy to falsely proove your point.
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