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Old August 12, 2006, 04:35 PM
imtiaz82 imtiaz82 is offline
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Default Bush's language angers US Muslims

Bush's language angers US Muslims

By Richard Allen Greene
BBC News, Washington

Mr Bush appeared with Muslim leaders soon after 9/11

In the days after the horror of the 11 September attacks, President George W Bush made a point of saying Muslims per se were not America's enemy.

But in the five years since then, he has taken less care to emphasise that message, US Muslim leaders are saying.
They are upset about his use of terms like "Islamic fascists", which he used this week both for Hezbollah and the suspected bomb plotters held in the UK.
"It offends the vast majority of moderate Muslims," Ahmed Younis said.
"The use of the term casts a shadow upon Islam and bolsters the argument that there is a clash of civilisations between Islam and the West," Mr Younis, the national director of the Muslim Public Affairs Council (Mpac), told the BBC.
He said it was wrong to link the actions of violent Muslims to their religion.
"There is nothing Islamic about their fascism. The Prophet [Muhammad] and the Koran clearly articulate that this type of activity is outside of bounds for Muslims."
Regular refrain
Mr Bush used the term on at least two separate occasions this week.
On Monday, during a press conference from his ranch in Texas, he said terrorists "try to spread their jihadist message - a message I call ... Islamic radicalism, Islamic fascism".

Bush: 'Stark reminder'

A moment later, he said "Islamo-fascism" was an "ideology that is real and profound".
Then, on Thursday after the arrest in Britain of two dozen people suspected of plotting of bomb planes travelling to the US, he said "Islamic fascists... will use any means to destroy those of us who love freedom".
That day, the Council on American-Islamic Relations wrote to him to complain.
Its chairman Parvez Ahmed condemned his "use of ill-defined hot-button terms", which, he said, "feeds the perception that the war on terror is actually a war on Islam".
The council had not had a reply from the White House as of Friday afternoon, its legal director Arsalan Iftikhar told the BBC.
Neither the White House nor the State Department responded to BBC requests for clarification of the term.
Mr Younis of Mpac said he believed the president's use of the term was "a mistake" and that Mr Bush's speechwriters would drop it in the future.
He added that the idea that "there is a school of thought called Islamic fascism is a misnomer".
'Different breed'
Security expert Daniel Benjamin of the Center for Strategic and International Studies agreed that the term was meaningless.
"There is no sense in which jihadists embrace fascist ideology as it was developed by Mussolini or anyone else who was associated with the term," he said.
Muslim leaders say the Koran does not justify terrorism

"This is an epithet, a way of arousing strong emotion and tarnishing one's opponent, but it doesn't tell us anything about the content of their beliefs.
"The people who are trying to kill us, Sunni jihadist terrorists, are a very, very different breed."
Zanab Chami, a Muslim community activist in Dearborn, Michigan - home to one of the largest Arab communities in the US - said the administration had seized upon a new term to frighten people.
"I think the word terrorism has lost its edge. They are looking for something with a little more oomph."
And she is afraid that such language does have an effect on how Americans view Muslims.
"In the post-9/11 era, people are apt to fear Islam. These terms get thrown around so easily and it builds upon a foundation of fear that has already been instilled."
In fact, a Gallup poll released the day of the arrests in Britain showed that two out of five Americans admit to feeling prejudice against Muslims.
In Washington, Mr Younis said the president's linking of Islam with fascism would alienate "moderate Muslims who are needed at the front line of any effort to counter terrorism or extremism by Muslims".
But in Michigan, Ms Chami said it was already too late to worry about indelicate phrases.
"Members of the Muslim community here do not believe in the administration. They rightfully discount much of what President Bush says. People have closed their ears to him."

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Old August 12, 2006, 05:35 PM
mhferdaus mhferdaus is offline
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why are they angry ???

bush will say all the sh*t he can and he is.

talking about fascism, his chouddo ghusti is fascist, from the time of anglo empire to the modern american empire ( new anglo empire ) his family were fascists, his grand dad even funded hitler as a masonist plan create fear and then portray themselves as heroes, now what this man says should actually mean opposite ...

Last edited by reverse_swing; August 12, 2006 at 05:55 PM.. Reason: mod.content: Please try to avoid using large quote. Thanks!
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Old August 13, 2006, 12:32 PM
Ubiquitous Ubiquitous is offline
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Stupid saying that he thinks is cool but does more damage than all the money put into public diplomacy could mitigate. What's new...
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Old August 13, 2006, 06:50 PM
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how come the muslim community/council do not feel offended, angered and protest, have demonstration when bin laden and co. uses the words like jihad, allah and islam during their act of terrorism. They need to realise which group is harming or attacking islam the most and come with clean hearts.
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Old August 13, 2006, 07:20 PM
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Old August 13, 2006, 08:51 PM
Tehsin Tehsin is offline
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give up bro. some people will never see the light and only point fingers at others. that's how it works and how it has been working since the beginning of time. we know that and we'll still be stupid enough to keep on feeling superior to anyone who does not follow our beliefs (not matter what it is), or our group, or are not a member of our family. Just think about how excited people get over simple sports (cricket, football, olympics, abahani, msc) or politics (bnp, jamaat, al) and how your team or group is always better then your opponents.
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Old August 13, 2006, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by allrounder
how come the muslim community/council do not feel offended, angered and protest, have demonstration when bin laden and co. uses the words like jihad, allah and islam during their act of terrorism
Because bin laden and co. was funded and armed by Bush and his daddy. Without his daddy's double standard, Bin Laden wouldnt be where he is today, terrorising in the name of Jihad.
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Old August 14, 2006, 03:41 AM
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Default Bush's belief in a worldwide Islamist conspiracy is foolish and dangerous

We can only see off the serious threat we face if we separate real Muslim grievances from al-Qaida's homicidal mania

Max Hastings
Monday August 14, 2006
The Guardian

George Bush sometimes sounds more like the Mahdi, preaching jihad against infidels, than the leader of a western democracy. In his regular radio address to the American people on Saturday he linked the British alleged aircraft plotters with Hizbullah in Lebanon, and these in turn with the insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan.
All, said the president of the world's most powerful nation, share a "totalitarian ideology", and a desire to "establish a safe haven from which to attack free nations". Bush's remarks put me in mind of a proverb attributed to Ali ibn Abu Talib: "He who has a thousand friends has not a friend to spare, and he who has one enemy will meet him everywhere."
In the United States a disturbingly large minority of people - polls suggest around 40% - remain willing to accept Bush's assertions that Americans and their allies, which chiefly means the British, are faced with a single global conspiracy by Islamic fundamentalists to destroy our societies.
In less credulous Britain one could nowadays fit into an old-fashioned telephone box those who believe anything Bush or Tony Blair says about foreign policy. Many of us are consumed with frustration. We know that we face a real threat from Muslim fundamentalists, and that we are unlikely to begin to defeat this until we see it for what it is: something infinitely more complex, diffuse and nuanced than the US president wishes to suppose.
There is indeed a common strand in the anger of Muslim radicals in many countries. They are frustrated by the cultural, economic and political dominance of the west, whose values they find abhorrent. In some, bitterness is increased by awareness of the relative failure of their own societies, which they blame on the west rather than their own shortcomings.
They turn to violence in the spirit that has inspired fringe groups of revolutionaries through the ages. It is essential for the western democracies to defend themselves vigorously against such people, whose values and purposes are nihilistic. We must never lose sight of the fact that al-Qaida's terrorists attacked the twin towers on 9/11 before Bush began his reckless crusade, before the coalition went into Afghanistan and Iraq, before Israel entered Lebanon.
In September 2001, most of the world clearly perceived that a monstrous crime had been committed against the United States, and that the defeat of al-Qaida was essential to global security. While many ordinary Muslims were by no means sorry to see American hubris punished, grassroots support for Osama bin Laden was still small, and remained so through the invasion of Afghanistan.
Today, of course, everything has changed. In the eyes of many Muslims, the actions of Bush and Blair have promoted and legitimised al-Qaida in a fashion even its founder could hardly have anticipated a decade ago.
Bush has chosen to lump together all violent Muslim opposition to what he perceives as western interests everywhere in the world, as part of a single conspiracy. He is indifferent to the huge variance of interests that drives the Taliban in Afghanistan, insurgents in Iraq, Hamas and Hizbullah fighting the Israelis. He simply identifies them as common enemies of the United States.
Almost three years ago he contemptuously challenged the Iraqi insurgents to defy American will: "My answer is - bring 'em on." Today he has widened this bold defiance to embrace a vastly more ambitious range of foes: "He who has one enemy will meet him everywhere."
Far from acknowledging that any successful strategy for addressing Muslim radicalism must include a just outcome for the Palestinians, he endorses Israel's attempt to crush them and their supporters by force of arms alone, together with Israeli expansion on the West Bank. The west faces the probable defeat of its efforts to stabilise Afghanistan, a worthy objective, because of the likely failure of its campaign in Iraq, which began on false pretexts.
There is no chance that the west will get anywhere with the Muslim world until the US government is willing to disassemble a spread of grievances in widely diverse societies, examine them as separate components, and treat each on its merits. America cannot prevail through the mere deployment of superior wealth and military power, the failure of which is manifest. Judicious and discriminatory political judgments are fundamental, and today quite lacking.
The madness of Bush's policy is that he has made a wilful choice to amalgamate the grossly irrational, totalitarian and homicidal objectives of al-Qaida with the just claims of Palestinians and grievances of Iraqis. His remarks on Saturday invite Muslims who sympathise with Hamas or reject Iraq's occupation or merely aspire to grow opium in Afghanistan to make common cause with Bin Laden.
If the United States insists upon regarding all Muslim opponents of its foreign policies as a homogeneous enemy then that is what they become. The Muslim radicals' "single narrative" portrays the entire course of history as a Christian and Jewish plot against Islam.
It is widely agreed among western governments and intelligence agencies that, in order to defeat the pernicious spread of such nonsense, a convincing counter-narrative is needed. Yet it becomes a trifle difficult to compose this when the US president promulgates his own single narrative, almost as ridiculous as that of al-Qaida.
Whatever the truth about last week's frustrated aircraft bomb plot, we cannot doubt that Britain faces a serious and ongoing threat from violent fanatics undeserving of the smallest sympathy. Yet we shall defeat them only when our Muslim community at large perceives that its interests are identified with Britain's polity.
This objective will remain elusive as long as the British government supports the United States in pursuing policies that many Muslims perceive as directed against their entire culture. You and I know that this is not so. We are as dismayed as they are by Bush and Blair's follies.
Yet, however eloquently we explain this, many Muslims respond by pointing to the spectacle of American, Israeli and British troops daily executing operations that the president declares to be in furtherance of his global jihad. It avails little that we know our boys in Afghanistan are pursuing infinitely more admirable purposes than the Israelis in Lebanon, when Bush is telling the world that the two conflicts are mere different fronts in a common struggle.
Tony Blair - "waist deep in the big muddy", as Pete Seeger used to sing about Lyndon Johnson in the Vietnam era - clings to a messianic conviction that he must continue to endorse American statements and policies to maintain his restraining influence on George Bush. This invites speculation about what the president might do if Tony was not at his elbow. Seize Mecca?
The west faces a threat from violent Muslim fundamentalists that would have existed even if a Lincoln had been presiding at the White House. As a citizen, I am willing to be resolute in the face of terrorism, which must be defeated. I become much less happy about the prospect of immolation, however, when Bush and Blair translate what should be an ironclad case for civilised values into an agenda of their own which I want no part of.

Guardian >>

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Old August 14, 2006, 05:11 AM
thebest thebest is offline
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The relation ship between Bush Family and Bin Laden family is well documented. Also the connection between Fascist and Bush Family is documented. So at the top of the pyramid Bush know that he is right, this bin ladens and Al quaida are facist. But the crucial question is who created and spomsored them? And what about Israil's apartheid.
But Tehsin and allrounder is also right. I saw many people (not the illitarate but really literate, reasonble persons) was in the moon hearing 9/11 and 7/7. We - the moderate muslims should ask how we allow these crazy people to hijack our religion. Islam is the first religion which prophessed democracy - remember Rasullah (SA) did not nominate Hazrat Ali (RA) his brother and son-in law to become the leader of muslim world. And we stupid people are going after Bhutto's daughter, Mujib's daughter, Zia's wife and son, Sukorno's daughter in all those country so called muslim democracy.
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Old August 14, 2006, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by thebest
And we stupid people are going after Bhutto's daughter, Mujib's daughter, Zia's wife and son, Sukorno's daughter in all those country so called muslim democracy.
Thats life my friend.
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Old August 15, 2006, 08:08 AM
mhferdaus mhferdaus is offline
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Bush's belief in a worldwide Islamist conspiracy is foolish and dangerous
We can only see off the serious threat we face if we separate real Muslim grievances from al-Qaida's homicidal mania

Max Hastings
Monday August 14, 2006
The Guardian

once again, I know what do they feed them, the article totally overlapped the info about Be-Insaf that is being done against Muslims by the possies and the new english empire itself, and look they say we are arrogant enough to think us better than them??? dude if he knew Islam, he would know that there is no place for arrogance and pride in Islam, and Al-Qaeda is not a factor, the meaning of Jihad as always they think is synonim of crusade, and attacking other weak nations when they remain contempt is never allowed by Muslims.

This is how it is : As Muslims we should try to work for peace, and try to be re-united with our creator ALLAH-RABBUL-ALAMIN, with great Iman, we are to have Iman in our own terms, and not to attack other countries and push Iman on to their brain, that would not make sense, as you can not kick someone in to heaven, and we do not believe we would become weak if do not forcefully convert other people into our religion. If you look at the history people of Bangla already had the knowledge of Islam even before the Turkish campaign, as a matter of fact some parts of Bangla had been attacked by aryans to annihilate Muslim and Buddhist population from Bangla and put a stranglehond in it,and thus a Military campaign was needed, the Khalifas in my knowledge never attacked China to put on Islam in their mind and yet there are 20 million Muslims in China, and you can have a lot more examples if you really want to know the truth.

as for Khalifah Umar's (RA campaign in all of Arabia and Persia, was not a campaign to make them Muslims, but to end the war, if he wanted he could conquered rome, and know that Gazi Saladin could have slaughtered innocent civilians and call it casualty of war ...

so mister ... whatever he is , tell him to stop kidding with yourself and know exactly what you are doing. might meet ya in judgment day pal.

and it is not Osama vs Bush, as it is now Dhalimun vs Muslims, and with in the Dhalimun can be some so called Muslims. I wonder though who are they kidding anyway ???

EDIT : but like recent bombing plot like in heathrow does give them new inspiration to do more Dhulm, I wonder who was the real master mind behind these plots...

Last edited by mhferdaus; August 16, 2006 at 09:00 PM..
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