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March 5, 2010, 06:31 AM
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Sorry Jamie and Shakib: Shommanjonok Porajoys (Honorable defeats) aren't good enough
I am sorry, I can't take a 3-0 whitewash by England at home. England is not the greatest of the one day side and they have a relatively poor record in the sub-continent. A 3-0 drubbing by the England team is a complete failure in my eyes. I don't buy those individual improvement theories. These are bs if you can't win matches after matches. It's win that counts at the end of the day.
It's great if players continue to improve and get individual milestones while they are winning. I will take if they are not setting individual milestones, but still winning. However, it is completely unacceptable as an international team to play only for individual milestones, losing consistently and be satisfied with these so called progresses.
What progress? being able to achieve honorable defaets? Who cares? There is nothing to brag about the defeats, but apparently our team managements are getting satisfaction with some individual performances. Sorry Jamie Siddons, your development curve is too shallow to my liking and I expected better from a developing team.
We lost 10 consecutive ODIs in this year. Where is the improvement? Scoring 239 when the opposition is easily scoring 284s and 300s? I think the message is not clear to the boys. They are settling for honorable defeats and not going for wins to achieve individual milestones. This mentality will never help us to cross the line. Jamie Siddons is saying in 2 years time we will be winning against big boys, with this rate of improvement I don't see it in even next 5 years. Sorry Jamie! I started believing in your words, but time is running out quickly and patience is also running thin at the moment.
A 2-0 whitewash in the Test series is looming large followed by another 5-0 whitewash when we will be touring England later this year. We were good enough to win matches here and there and we should be good enough to win matches at home in suitable conditions. If we are not getting suitable wickets at home, that's again is the failure of the team management.
Shakib and Jamie, stop talking and start delivering results. Smart talking has little place in cricket when results are going only downhill.
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March 5, 2010, 06:38 AM
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Banned
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This is what Chris Gayle said after their defeat to Zimbabwe:
"When you do crap, it's definitely crap and there is no excuse."
At the end of the day it is a binary calculation; no one will give us a s**t if our individual performances do not produce 1.
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March 5, 2010, 06:42 AM
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Cricket Legend
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Well we would have won the 2nd match if not for the umpires.
Posted via BC Mobile Edition (Android)
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March 5, 2010, 06:43 AM
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Banned
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shehwar
Well we would have won the 2nd match if not for the umpires.
Posted via BC Mobile Edition (Android)
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Ohhhhhhhhh..please. If you want to win, you will have to win defeating all odds. Zimbo got some bad decisions yesterday, but they squeezed a win.
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March 5, 2010, 06:55 AM
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Cricket Guru
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@ Miraz bro....can you please send it to Mr. Siddons ? I am sure he is out of focus now. This team is going nowhere except some individual performances which is not helping the team at the moment. I am not against any personal achievements but that should be beneficial for the team. Look at Morgan innings in the 2nd match. He scored his maiden century for his own career but look, that also helped the team to win. But i cant see anything like that for Bangladesh team. Every batsmen are getting runs but whenever they get settled and team needs him to stay longer, right at that moment he looses his cool and gets out, its just because he has achieved his own goal !
JS may not have hair on his head, but i guess, he is not also brainless like our batsmen. He better starts his brain engine sooner than the later !
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March 5, 2010, 07:01 AM
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BC Staff BC Editorial Team
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asddsa bro, I am in regular touch with Siddons and he is fully aware about my views. He clearly differs on my vision and expectations. For the moment, he wants to stick to his individual achievement approach.
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March 5, 2010, 07:05 AM
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Street Cricketer
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Miraz bro, could you also get in touch with Shamim Chowdhury kindly and ask him to stay away from Bangladesh matches as he is the biggest kufa on all our lives and the nation!
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March 5, 2010, 07:10 AM
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Eventually we'll get our one off win and everybody will be all excited and hail Siddons' brilliance.
EVEN IF WE get a Test win against ENG this month, this top half of 2010 has been an UTTER FAILURE.
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March 5, 2010, 07:19 AM
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Moderator BC Editorial Team
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miraz
asddsa bro, I am in regular touch with Siddons and he is fully aware about my views. He clearly differs on my vision and expectations. For the moment, he wants to stick to his individual achievement approach.
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Any idea what he does about the side's fielding ? For batting and bowling, you cannot change a donkey into a horse overnight, and can be improved only so much. But these are young men in early 20s representing their country, if they can't catch and field and seem to be getting worse every match, it is the coach who must be made run around the ground 20 times a day.
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March 5, 2010, 07:28 AM
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BC Staff BC Editorial Team
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Jamie wanted to keep Salahuddin as the fielding coach and was very satisfied with his effort as fielding coach and mentor of the boys. BCB thought otherwise and sacked him. Our fielding has gone significantly downhill since the departure of Salahuddin from the coaching staff.
Moron BCB.
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March 5, 2010, 07:41 AM
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Agreed with this thread. I'm going to be off cricket for a while - these idiots are affecting my uni studies.
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March 5, 2010, 07:42 AM
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Excellent post Miraz bhai. I do agree with you on all the points, but in Siddons' defense what do you expect him to do? You cannot expect the team to transform overnight; afterall, he is not a miracle worker. I am sure this is exactly what would Siddons be thinking if he reads your post.
I haven't seen the presentation ceremony, so I am not sure if Shakib said that he is happy with the losses and that the team is making progresses. But, if he said anything of that nature, I agree with you that this is far from truth at least from today's match.
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March 5, 2010, 09:17 AM
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Cricket Savant
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Yes this worthless English One day out fit did win against SA recently.
Role playing wasn't there. Selection was questionable.
We could have done way better, I agree. Even with all this we had two good chances of winning.
+++
Do we have any alternatives at this point? State them if any. You want Ashraful to be the captain again since he was the one when we last won against G8 full strenght? You want Habibul Bashar? Dav Watmore to be the captain again?
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March 5, 2010, 09:29 AM
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BC Staff BC Editorial Team
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
+++
Do we have any alternatives at this point? State them if any. You want Ashraful to be the captain again since he was the one when we last won against G8 full strenght? You want Habibul Bashar? Dav Watmore to be the captain again?
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I don't want Bashar or Ashraful or Rafique. I believe current bunch of players have the ability to do much better than what they are doing. A change in attitude and strategy is required. An inspirational and tactical coach could have done lot better with the current lot of players. Dav Whatmore has shown what underperforming players can achieve if you can inspire them and gel them into a team.
Current team doesn't look like a winning outfit to me. They aren't gelling properly. Their individual performances are very isolated incidents. Individual performances are not backed by team efforts. This is where I am not comfortable. They are pleased with very little gains.
International sports is mostly played in minds. Most international players are of similar quality except few geniuses like Tendulkar. Mentality and self-belief makes the difference between the winners and losers.
If a team is happy about losing matches and content with individual performances, you can't expect them to be hungry for win.
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March 5, 2010, 09:44 AM
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Would like to hear some temporary solutions for next 2 Test Matches. :p
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March 5, 2010, 09:47 AM
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Agree current players are more technically advanced (are they really - can't field, catch, keep, bowl, run!!!) and our old players are no match to their individual advancement - but those faltu low scale players when combined and guided properly could do miracles. What would you do if you lost each 3 matches in the series closely, or lost 2 like minnow and won 1 neck and neck.
The records will still say 2-1 and nobody will be thinking that during the whole series no BD player got a 4 wicket haul, no batter got a half century. PM will send congratulation to the team and coach.
Honorary win although hard fought.
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March 5, 2010, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magic boy
Would like to hear some temporary solutions for next 2 Test Matches. :p
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While batting second we may hit centuries but perish when actually possess the potential to draw. This "draw" mentality is lost, cos now they are guided by the coach for individual performance.
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March 5, 2010, 09:58 AM
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Cricket Legend
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miraz
I don't want Bashar or Ashraful or Rafique. I believe current bunch of players have the ability to do much better than what they are doing. A change in attitude and strategy is required. An inspirational and tactical coach could have done lot better with the current lot of players. Dav Whatmore has shown what underperforming players can achieve if you can inspire them and gel them into a team.
Current team doesn't look like a winning outfit to me. They aren't gelling properly. Their individual performances are very isolated incidents. Individual performances are not backed by team efforts. This is where I am not comfortable. They are pleased with very little gains.
International sports is mostly played in minds. Most international players are of similar quality except few geniuses like Tendulkar. Mentality and self-belief makes the difference between the winners and losers.
If a team is happy about losing matches and content with individual performances, you can't expect them to be hungry for win.
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Thats what me and few others have been screaming our lungs out on all the while being ostrasized by the majority on this board.
You can not develop winners by creating a culture where losses are acceptable. On pen and paper, this team is way better than Whatmore's team. Yet the self belief and the desire to win doesn't seem as strong.
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March 5, 2010, 10:04 AM
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Cricket Savant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miraz
Jamie wanted to keep Salahuddin as the fielding coach and was very satisfied with his effort as fielding coach and mentor of the boys. BCB thought otherwise and sacked him. Our fielding has gone significantly downhill since the departure of Salahuddin from the coaching staff.
Moron BCB.
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Players gelling or not gelling, being satisfied with individual achievements, Coach not looking at wins and losses are secondary. What you mentioned is primary problem and a this is a serious issue that is beyond Siddons control. If the board wouldn't give the coach all the amenities that he needs to succeed then how can you blame him entirely? If catches were held don't you think we would have won few games already this year?
If the answer is 'yes', then your opening post needs a revamp. ABC always comes before XYZ. What we are talking about is XYZ which needs to be addressed one point of time though. But putting blame solely on XYZ is not right.
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The Weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is an attribute of the Strong." - Gandhi.
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March 5, 2010, 10:11 AM
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BC Staff BC Editorial Team
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T_E bhai, your post defies logic. A fielding coach is an essential part of the team, but presence or absence of a particular fielding coach can't be difference between wins and consecutive losses. Until recently we had a very capable fielding coach in Kalpage and before Kalpage we had Salahuddin, still we failed to win matches under Siddons.
It's good to defend Siddons, but you should put forward stronger arguments to back him. Siddons has got everything at the moment. Trainer, Physio, Bowling Coach, Fielding coach, computer analyst, assistant coach in Sujan and he is a batting coach himself. Addition of couple more support staff won't make much differnce. The problem is in strategy.
BCB wasn't any better during Whatmore and we had less support staff (no bowling coach or assistant coach), still Whatmore succeeded due to better strategy with less capable players.
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March 5, 2010, 10:14 AM
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Super Moderator BC Editorial Team
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Personally, I wasn't expecting a win in the ODI series. The truth is the game has changed a lot in a very little time and we haven't kept up. I get the feeling we might have been focusing too much on individual batting performances during this time (and there's nothing wrong with that because if the basics aren't right then there's no point playing), which means that the world has moved up two steps while we have moved up one.
So although there has been some progress in the batting and we're scoring 240/250 more often, we have lost track of the fact that we actually need 300 to win games on batting tracks these days. Even then, we might get chased down. The rate at which the game has excelled is simply > the rate at which we have. So essentially, although we have made some improvements, the fact that we haven't done so fast enough means that we have effectively taken a couple of steps back.
We were supposed to build on the successes of the 2007 world cup, but instead we ended up here, with 14 losses in the first quarter of 2010 already. Personally, I don't think this team has what it takes to win ODI matches. The batting isn't strong enough, the bowling is toothless, the fielding crap. With 12 months left for the world cup, we'll have to work much harder if we're going to make it to the second round.
I like Siddons and I think he's the right man for the job, but it is what it is and three losses against England isn't ideal. In fact, one can only blame the coach so much when the players aren't delivering.
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March 5, 2010, 10:22 AM
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It is the sum of the parts makes the whole. This is what SD is banking on. He is hoping that the indvidual performances will some day add up to a brilliant display of team effort. I am not that discouraged by the 3rd ODI performance as most of you. We had many batting starts. We had four middle order batsmen scored in the excess of 30 but none in the excess of 50. This where we suffer. We need to convert these starts into something more tangible. Our batting is definitely improving. It is fielding side that looked bad this series. I am bewildered by Sakib's many decisions in this aspect of the game. I could not find any logic behind the bowling changes he employed. Granted that he does not have much variety. But bowiling two SLA simultaneously is hardly ever effective. Naeem and Mahmudullah should have been paired with SLAs. As for Mahmudullah, I am surprised that Sakib is willing to use Rubel but not him when both went for runs. What is going on? There was glaring lack of use Mahmudullah on the 2nd ODI where he could have made difference. In this series, Sakib's choice of defensive fielding was also letting the batsmen bat without any pressure (six pushes and six runs). The decision to field first aftr winning the toss was rather dubious. I suppose this is the peril of having a very inexperinced captain. As for umpires allegedly giving wrong decisions, these all evens out. That is part of the game. Just hold on to the catches and you will win a number of close games despite what the umps do.
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March 5, 2010, 10:23 AM
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Cricket Savant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miraz
T_E bhai, your post defies logic. A fielding coach is an essential part of the team, but presence or absence of a particular fielding coach can't be difference between wins and consecutive losses. Until recently we had a very capable fielding coach in Kalpage and before Kalpage we had Salahuddin, still we failed to win matches under Siddons.
It's good to defend Siddons, but you should put forward stronger arguments to back him. Siddons has got everything at the moment. Trainer, Physio, Bowling Coach, Fielding coach, computer analyst, assistant coach in Sujan and he is a batting coach himself. Addition of couple more support staff won't make much differnce. The problem is in strategy.
BCB wasn't any better during Whatmore and we had less support staff (no bowling coach or assistant coach), still Whatmore succeeded due to better strategy with less capable players.
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Who is that? He don't deserve to be there for sure. I thought we didn't have any in this series.
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The Weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is an attribute of the Strong." - Gandhi.
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March 5, 2010, 10:27 AM
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Cricket Legend
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look,the coach cant really do much unless our players get it through their thick skulls dat they are representing our country on international level.they walk into the ground every time with no sense of responsibility or any guilt conscience bcoz they kno dat however badly they suck,they wouldnt get the sack as there is no "replacement" for them ,so yeah.....
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March 5, 2010, 10:34 AM
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Cricket Savant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LateCut
...I am bewildered by Sakib's many decisions in this aspect of the game. I could not find any logic behind the bowling changes he employed. -I on the otherhand found the changes almost perfectly sequenced. Granted that he does not have much variety. But bowiling two SLA simultaneously is hardly ever effective. -Yet Pieterson fell to SLA previously that was the study done, and fell to an SLA yesterday. Immidiately after Pieterson's departure Shakib brought in off spinner. Naeem and Mahmudullah should have been paired with SLAs. As for Mahmudullah, I am surprised that Sakib is willing to use Rubel but not him when both went for runs. What is going on? There was glaring lack of use Mahmudullah on the 2nd ODI where he could have made difference. -Each of three SLAs are different. Different in run up to the pitch, grip, bowling, bowling angle, turn, speed. Read RazabQ's comment on Riyad's bowling. he got carted for six as well. In the dying moments of the game he would have conceded more for sure. In this series, Sakib's choice of defensive fielding was also letting the batsmen bat without any pressure (six pushes and six runs). -Well when players are dropping catches like flies what must a captain do? England went on a hitting rampage with lives. ...As for umpires allegedly giving wrong decisions, these all evens out. -In this ODI series, it is 1:3 in favor of England if not more. That is not evening out. ..
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The red ones are my comment.
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The Weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is an attribute of the Strong." - Gandhi.
Last edited by Tigers_eye; March 5, 2010 at 10:41 AM..
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