Bangladesh's Image in Politicians' Eyes

[mb444]

Taking apart Daily Star's Indian propaganda meterial-----oh sorry i mean article.


1.The title - Dhaka urged not to fight border fencing

I postulate the headline was designed to sap the morale of BD. any patriotic paper would have qualified the statement with something like India urgues bangladesh to................

2. Diplomatic protocol dictates that official communiques between nations are out of public bounds unless both nation agrees otherwise. Why does then indian high commission brief against BD and to Daily Star in Particular. No brainer really --- cause it is an arm of indian propaganda machine in BD. Further evidence can be cited on this. If you read the rag regularly you will note that its frequently used by indian high commissioner to spread lies about indian intentions. Furthermore it facilitates massive amount of column inches to indian writers.

3. It sanitises what is happening in the border. It does not state that building a fence is directly in contravention of the 1974 treaty signed by india. it spins reality to make bangladeshi action in defence of her territorial integrity seem petulant and india's actions reasonable.

4. It manages to report BDR and bsf meeting. Yet reports BD Generals comments as per an Indian channel. Could it be that the entire piece was a plant by the Indian High Commission to pressure BD. Cisco-guy if the daily star is a popular, credible and patriotic paper surely it would have no problem in getting a quote from BDR directly


CiscoGuy -----------

Sometime what is not said speakes louder than that which has been spoken. One is not chasing shadows and it does not require any more than an enquiring mind and simple use of logic to look through all the smoke and mirrors.

I suggest you seek to aquire atleast a minimum level of sophistication in deconstructing information presented before you and not take them as gospel truths.

[mb444]

Cricket Pagol,

I marely state that if Jamat was complicit in the atrocities against Bangladeshies............bring them to justice.

nothin more and nothing less.

I am only stating a mere fact that both BNP and Al have forged alliance with them.

I will not seek to defend jamat as i personally do not care for their politics but the overall interests of the muslims is of interest and i do consider secularism a threat to the national identity of bangladesh.


I did not correlate Mujibs parenthood to his maglomaniac personality. i simply pointed that as a [] and a paid indian spy his aligience was not with the muslims and as such he had much to gain by turning the reason d'etre of Bangladesh from a homeland for the muslim to a secular version of a homeland for the bangali. He sought to achieve his objective by turning against the muslim identity - which at that time was jamat. Mujib's mission of turning BD into a vessal state of india culminated in the creation of baksal.

His daughter sat with advani- the sacker or the babri masjid and the most anti muslim politician in india and bad mouthed Bangladesh. Enough said as to the aligience of Al to the muslims of BD.

I am sorry you do not like it but Bangladesh is a muslim majority nation.

Edited on, March 15, 2005, 2:45 AM GMT, by pompous.
Reason: please refrain from using religious affiliations in a denigrating fashion

[AsifTheManRahman]

ok...i need some help here...a single scratch can turn a 4 into an A, and if you'd held the caps lock by mistake, you probably had intended to write an "a"...tolerance is greater (trust me, it is), english is a bit better, fewer typos (probably also in nick), however general style the same.

can't be sure though. i'm not an expert, and that's why i said i need some help. ok - i'll stop being a smart butt and hand it over to agent to figure out.

sorry for poking my nose into this thread, esp into this discussion

[mb444]

AsifTheMatRahman


???????????

[Zobair]

mb444! you obviously have some strong views on this subject. You are welcome to air your views but please be advised that, attacking the messenger is a big "no no" on this site. Also a person's religious affiliation is out of bounds and any discussion making denigrating use of religion is expressly forbidden. Any profiling along religious/racial lines will not be tolerated regardless of the context. While you are welcome to deconstruct a poster's point of view please do avoid making judgements of a personal nature. It muddies the atmosphere and crowds out the goodwill. Hope you will take my advice in good faith.

[as a Moderator]

Now my personal opinion. I believe there is a certain amount of spin that the Daily Star does put on its reporting. However, objectivity is not "humanly" possible. Personal bias, arising from personal beliefs, will bear on how we recount various events. "We report it as we see it" is hardly reassuring for it seems people even "see" things differently. Daily Star is motivated by a humanist perspective on how things should be in Bangladesh and I dare say is suspicious of the current Islamist Politicians and their objectives perhaps by a shade more than would be explained by an "government critic" regression. However, I will refrain from casting aspersions on people's motives. Calling a newspaper "the mouth-piece of a foreign power" doesn't do justice to the paper, IMHO. I, personally, never quite got that impression and I have been following the newspaper for a long time now. Keeping their inevitable slant aside, they have made an effort to be studied and thoughtful in their reporting. Of course they could have done a better job on many instances, but they have never claimed to be perfect. Obviously many may beg to differ. That is why we have so many different media and news outlets catering to the different sections of society, each with a different set of political and social beliefs. Ironically this again puts a question mark on our efforts to reconcile the quest for a truly objective media to cater to our subjective consciousness. It is more realistic to keep an open mind, and try and educate ourselves as widely as possible about a subject from as many sources as possible.


Edited on, March 15, 2005, 2:50 AM GMT, by pompous.

[Arnab]

Interesting...mb444's arguments are kinda like a Bangladeshi version of reactionary neocon commentaries in the US. The use of rhetoric is impressive, albeit a liitle lacking in the spelling department.

[Pundit]

Interesting...mb444's arguments are kinda like a Bangladeshi version of reactionary neocon commentaries in the US.

But Arnab, where it mattered, the US has been a secular country historically. Even if it that is not true, Christianity has by and large been bottled within the walls of the Church, in Modern history.

As for Bangladesh, ever since Islam and the Mughals arrived, it has been a Muslim country. Maybe you are less inclined to accept, or even be alarmed of Muslim Fandu in recent years. But that should not make you overlook the fact behind BD's religious affiliation.

As I have always stated, most of our vocal readers on this board have softer feelings towards Socialism, and hence a natural apathy towards religion. You are no different ofcourse. Buckle up tight and always remember, Wall street is much closer to you than you think/want.

Curious also, since I consider you to be one of the most intelligent members here - just the other day you mentioned of having lost faith in God after witnessing the squalor of the Geneva camps. I can only assume that for someone so moved to the point of renouncing the existence of God, you are surely preparing your life to go back and tend to the pains of people such as the inhabitants of Geneva Camp ? Are you ?

Oh yes, just the other day also, Ms. Hasina called Hartal in BD and happily boarded British Airways destined for the USA, later that evening. I can only speculate, to take a short course in neo-capitalism?

Oh yes, and believe it or not, or admit it or not, most of the people in BD do believe that the attacks instigated against folks like SAMS K. and Ms. Ivy were party internal.

So, to most of you guys here, dump your hippocracy at your door steps, and remember, you have 2 alternatives -

be honest like Arnab and speak of renouncing GOD, or let me herd you Westward into the Ganges for your real ritual. Considering how full of crap that is, I doubt you will find secularism their either.

[Beamer]

Jamat's complicity in 1971??

They are lucky to have survived by virtue of a general pardon!

That was a mistake by Bangabandhu but certainly an offtopic in this particular discussion. So, you can say, by allowing them to survive, he gave them enough breathing room to manuever and regroup until Zia revived and rehabilitated it by bringing them back to the political field. Mass pardons did indeed happen in many nations for the sake of healing and rebuilding the society and the country in the aftermath of civilwars.

Jamat may have fought for Pakistan but definitely fought against her breakup. Ignoring that fact tacitly under the veil of a few nicely written rhetorics is nothing but an attempt to rewrite the history of Bangladesh.

As for as Daily Star is concerned, I enjoy redaing it. They have many column writers from Pakistan as well, in case anyone asked. So, what is wrong being secular, progressive and forward minded? They write many in-depth articles about many positive aspects of our country. To brand them as a mouth piece of Indian hedgemony is unfortunate and really a bit irritating. Does India have evil designs with Bangladesh? 100%. It is increasingly looking very clear. We should get our own house together before blaming everything on India though.

What about Inqilab? Manabjamin? very patriotic Bangladeshis ?

[rafiq]

yeah it's 2005, and the freaks still come out at night...

[Arnab]

Pundit, I am beginning to think that I made the wrong analogy. American neo-cons don't really care about religious values much. To them market is the real God, with its invisible hand and other fairytale qualities.

Socialism as in Marxism also has sort of a fairy tale feel to it. The extreme confidence with which socialists predict the demise of the current capitlist system (which by no means is the ideal, invisible-hand-controlled capitalist system we find in Ecnomics textbooks, far from it) and subsequently the dawn of an utopian socialist society with no borders, boundries or markets seems really far-fetched.

Capitalism has very little to do with God (other than being a faith-based system itself), and atheism (lack of faith in God, possibly induced by personal, philosophical introspection) has nothing to do with socialism (another enterprise based on some incredible assumptions taken as truth on faith).

And a soft corner for democratic rights should not be unequivocally identified with a penchant for socialism either, like you just did.

Getting back to the analogy, I personally find the arguments presented by the American neo-cons, e.g., Perle, Fukuyama, Wolfowitz, Huntington, and basically most of the Chicago economists, pretty unconvincing. Their rhetoric is awesome, but I think there are big holes in their main line of thinking, which, to me, makes all the bombast somewhat meaningless. I found a stylistic similarity in our mb444's posts, that's all.

Edited on, March 15, 2005, 7:58 AM GMT, by Arnab.

[Arnab]

And since you brought up Wall Street and religion, may I ask what your stance is on the strategies of deception, bluffing, and puffery that traders on Wall Street habitually engage in? Lying through one's teeth is the condition of the game isn't it? How do you reconcile that with Christian or Islamic or any other religious values?

[mwrkhan]

Folks, the rules of this forum prevent me from "attacking" any members, so I shall refrain from addressing anyone personally, but from what I can gather from his posts in this and other threads, there is a forum member who seems to be either an "ummah" fetishist or afflicted with a "pan-islamist" mind-set. At the very least he appears to be defined by his own religious convictions and seems to be offended when others, who perhaps nominally describe themselves as muslim, even countenance a point of view which does not wholeheartedly embrace the rigid tenets of faith - as evidenced by his repeated emphasis on Islam being the crucial defining characteristic of Bangladesh. It is but one among many and not even the most important in my view.

Any way, I cannot help but get the impression that he is wistful for pre-independence times. I hope I am wrong.

BD should not be defined by its opposition to India or the vagaries of communal tensions past and present. We have our problems with India for sure, but gratuitous antagonism (which seems to be the default position of certain people, akin to the reflexive anti-Americanism observed amongst many liberals, sholarly types, Europeans and muslims) is intellectualy indefensible and untenable in the long run. India will be our neighbor forever. We should find out ways to co-exist in a meaningful manner. This in no way implies that we have to become a country of "dalals".

As for the Daily Star, it is, by some margin, the best English language newspaper we have. There is no such thing as a politically neutral news medium so no one should be surprised if editorial bias creeps in, even into pure reportage. Yet, even on this account, the DS fares better than a lot of other publications, especially in the vernacular press.

Finally, I do not hesitate to describe myself as a secularist, for which I make no apology. Unfortunately, there are some who would consider me and others of my ilk as an insidious threat. Fortunately, I see scant evidence of that in this forum barring a few exceptions.

[RazabQ]

aaah pretty intelligent discourse going on here. Without taking any sides, I do want to mention one nugget. My Nana was an old school politician in the Pakistan days. He was involved with the JuktoFront (United Front ) government that first toppled Muslim Leage from power (tho it didn't last). Anyway, my Nana had known Mujib ever since the days when he was "a Dhaka University gunda" (his words not mine) and he was a legal adviser to AL during the Agortola trials. I always recall my nana stating that Mujib, at that time, was guilty as heck of sedition (he _had_ met with Indian intelligence and what not ) and that his trial should be a text-book example of how to win a court case regardless of the alleged's culpability. The OJ Simpson case is another classic example, but I digress

[RazabQ]

Oh, and while we are on this topic, does anyone know if there is a book on the "Kolkata Kendrik Budhdhijibder something something"? It was published as a series on the Daily Inqilab during the late 80s and actually was a pretty well written series of articles. The pertinency to this here discussion is that it would definitely shed some light on mb444's assertions.

[PoorFan]

People who you hate - Jamat -ul -Islam and its supporters represents the constituancy which led and fought for the creation of pakistan vis a vis now bangladesh......
Now you can point at Jamat's complicity at 1971. Yet no charges have ever been bought, why not? If they are so anti-BD why has both AL and BNP sought and formed alliance with them. Looking at it in another way after the liberation of BD, what would have been the the quickest way for Mujib to consolidate power - simple effective and tried/tested solution of creating a common enemy - in this case Jamat, which incidently apart from the commies was the only other political entity in Bangladesh. Mujib is a []and certainly a paid indian agent (as confirmed by hasina) who then proceeded to destroy the nation and its islamic soul - a dictator banning all press,political parties and creating a one party state backed up by his own personal gang of thugs. He was a disgrace and the nation deserved a better leader having paid such a high price for its sovereignity. By the way Cisco-guy until Mujib returned to a liberated BD he never called for a free BD and a break-up of pakistan.

Like it or not history of BD did not begin in 1971, the path to the sovereinty of muslims i.e bengladesh was bought with blood. i wish to know what you mean when you say religious fundamentalism cause misery to Bangladeshi People.............I say it was that same islamic identity and the intrinsic need for freedom that has given birth to Bangladesh. Our war of liberation was never fought on the basis of secularism, that was a spin fabricated by mujib.

Your hatred of Jamat is illogical and baseless. ....However when you call Jamat or pro-muslim parties such as BNP bigots you dishonour the muslims of this land who fought and died first for the creation of pakistan and then Bangladesh.

So, Jamat deserve the credit for today's independent Bangladesh by fought for the creation of pakistan?
And in 1971 Jamat tie up with Pakistan and fought against Bangladesh's independence.
And killing intellectual's just before independence, still seems creditable and logical somehow?
How do we call it if not "religious fundamentalism cause misery to Bangladeshi People"?
If Jamat did the right thing and it's not a complicity where they have been after liberation?
why they didn't refuse general pardon which has given? Even now, why don't they claim whatever they did was right?
If someone who call "Mujib a hi*du bas**rd and certainly a paid indian agent", reminds me the feelings
of those who called razaker by people, and their heart always belongs to Pakistan.
"Mujib returned to a liberated BD he never called for a free BD and a break-up of pakistan"?!
Why not talk about Jamat's tie with Pakistan and fighting and killing the people of Bangladesh,
instead of trying to divide this nation?

Blaming Jamat is "illogical and baseless" and it's dishonor the muslims of this land who fought and
died first for the creation of pakistan and then Bangladesh???
Isn't it a ruthless dishonor to those muslims who died for Bangladesh when jamat deny complicity with Pakistan?
Surely jamat's honor doesn't mean anything to those muslims, nor they care though.

I don't think people of Bangladesh will ever buy this crap, never.
People of this country are different than India and Pakistan. Some people just don't or try to realize.

[akabir77]

Pls take your political opinions to sleep or home this is a cricket site and please keep it that way...

[bdmoderator]

No Comments.

[rafiq]

Akabir why are you so afraid that others should not discuss their political opinions? Being a Test Cricketer, you should know by now that this is "Forget Cricket". Although maybe you don't get as much of a kick out of this as I do, having intellectually superior total strangers redefine who you are; where you came from; what you should think, feel and believe; and generally what is good for you...indeed liberating if you allow yourself.

[akabir77]

Well i don't believe on discussions (political) anymore cause no one wants to hear/learn from others its all power and i am certainly not afraid.. to me the only solution is RAB get all the blind supporters who thinks mujib, zia or azam r great.. there thinking took us no where.. when we will be like us then we can start thinking about our past.. right now people wants think more and do less...

[rafiq]

Originally posted by akabir77
supporters who thinks mujib, zia or azam r great.. there thinking took us no where.. when we will be like us then we can start thinking about our past.. right now people wants think more and do less...

explain "when we will be like us"? Us as in people on this board or something else?

It would be nice if we could respect our past, wouldn't it? If we could learn about and give credit if due to everyone who had a role in it - Mujib, Zia included. And we could also objectively learn about and criticize things that these men and others did poorly, as none of them were perfect. But our way is to use our own self-proclaimed intellectual superiority to try to put everyone else in a box, so we can feel secure about our own insecurities. Lot of big words, no passion, no action...you're right.

[Fazal]

Originally posted by rafiq
[ Lot of big words, no passion, no action...you're right.

You were expecting some Hatha Hathi

"Hath Thakte Muk ke"