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  #1  
Old July 29, 2013, 06:17 AM
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Roey Haque Roey Haque is offline
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Default Are you happy with the Zimmerman verdict?

There are little bits of evidence which favor either Zimmerman or Trayvon, and so it could have gone either way. Indeed, the conservative and liberal media are both guilty of only highlighting the facts which suit their account.

Based on what I've researched: Trayvon was the type of kid who would look for trouble. ( Not the sweet goody two shoes kid most of the media portrayed him to be) And Zimmerman himself was an arrogant overzealous neighborhood watch guy. So put the two together, and it's a recipe for disaster. Color is NOT even an issue for me, and I think too much race baiting goes around in USA anyway, but that's just my opinion.

However, I'm not happy with Zimmerman going scott-free. I thought a jail sentence for manslaughter was needed. Maybe 5 years or so. At the end of the day, a 17 year old kid is dead and we should feel sorry. But we should also feel sorry for Zimmerman's situation, as far too many people are calling for his head without hearing all of the evidence. And based on the trial and proceedings, the evidence does indeed slightly favor Zimmerman.

What do you think? Whose side are you on? Or are you sitting in the fence as I am?
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  #2  
Old July 29, 2013, 09:04 AM
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I think you summed up the situation very well. The media played with emotions rather than giving concrete evidences. And I absolutely agree, that recently that there is a lot of race baiting going on in USA.

The jury should have been more diverse. As far as I know, it was 5 white women and that can't be counted as 'peers'. In the end, Zimmerman should have received at least some sort of jail sentence.
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  #3  
Old July 29, 2013, 01:54 PM
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People want to talk about facts...

Fact:
-Trayvon had every right to be in the neighborhood
-Trayvon was not armed and was minding his own business
-Trayvon was followed/stalked
-Zimmerman was told by the police control room NOT to approach or pursue Trayvon
-Zimmerman quite clearly stated - I'm sick of these punks getting away with it

Who are these punks? Getting away with what?

So Zimmerman has a right to defend himself - after instigating the situation in the first place, but Trayvon doesn't have a right to defend himself? How would you react if you had a stranger - a cop wannabe follow you and then come up to aggressively? My question is, if Trayvon had stood his ground and survived, with Zimmerman getting killed(remembering Zimmerman weighed more than him and was armed with a gun - while Trayvon had candy and a drink bottle) - what would people have said then?

Of course we only have one side of the story - the other side of the story was shot dead, KILLED.

Trayvon wasn't a goody two shoes...what was Zimmerman?

Quote:
In 2005, the same year that Zimmerman lost his security guard job, he was also arrested for “resisting officer with violence” and “battery of law enforcement officer,” both third-degree felonies. Those charges were dropped after he agreed to enter an alcohol education program.
Quote:
MSNBC reported that his ex-fiancee, Veronica Zuazo, alleged domestic violence and filed a motion for a restraining order in 2005. Zimmerman then filed for a restraining order against Zuazo and both later dropped their motions.
This scumbag was basically like the bouncers you see at nightclubs - FAILURES. Losers, who go on power trips.

*I posted in here, but in reality I'm not that bothered by this. I live in Bangladesh, and we have enough problems here without me pretending to care about 1 murder in the US. But the facts show, black men in the US don't get justice - this doesn't excuse their criminality...but a black guy is more likely to get convicted for a crime. I suppose this makes up for OJ - no wait, that was to make up for Rodney King
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  #4  
Old July 29, 2013, 02:50 PM
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Zimmerman might have walked away as a free man, but that doesn't mean he is actually 'free'. He is going to have to watch over his shoulder for the rest of his life. He probably would have been safer in jail.
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  #5  
Old July 29, 2013, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gladiators
People want to talk about facts...
-Zimmerman quite clearly stated - I'm sick of these punks getting away with it
Who are these punks? Getting away with what?
I will answer that for you. There were many break ins in that complex over the past year. Even the house's front lawn where Zimmerman first spotted Trayvon, that very same house had been broke into a few months back. And Zimmerman had partially stopped that robbery , but some goods were still stolen. It was a complex riddled with break ins, hence the need to introduce a neighborhood watch guy in the first place! So that was what Zimmerman was referring to. You see, there are so many little facts which don't really mean anything unless you use it to suit your account. But you must be well versed in both sides.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gladiators
Of course we only have one side of the story - the other side of the story was shot dead, KILLED.
Yeah, well that is no reason to demonize the survivor. You have to reach a verdict in the court of justice with the help of witnesses and evidence. As I said before, the biggest tragedy here is that a 17 year old is dead. But the next biggest one is that people are calling for one guy's head without researching all the evidence first. And if you did the see the court trial videos,they are on youtube, the evidence does lean towards Zimmerman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gladiators
Trayvon wasn't a goody two shoes...what was Zimmerman?

This scumbag was basically like the bouncers you see at nightclubs - FAILURES. Losers, who go on power trips.
I never said Zimmerman was any better.
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  #6  
Old July 29, 2013, 07:13 PM
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Am iBadCitizen if iReally don't care?
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  #7  
Old July 29, 2013, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeshan
Am iBadCitizen if iReally don't care?
No.

Just that it is a very interesting case. There is the issue of racism,there is the issue of the legal system, and then there is an issue of media selecting facts to hit home a certain point of view.

I myself have swayed from taking Trayvon's side, to Zimmerman's side, to Trayvon's side again, before taking no sides at all! You might not care, but you might be surprised how much you do, once you look into the case.
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Old July 29, 2013, 10:10 PM
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There is a new trayvon martin where a kid was shot and killed for playing loud rap music. That douche is obviously racist he will probably defintiely get convicted.
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  #9  
Old July 30, 2013, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roey Haque
I will answer that for you. There were many break ins in that complex over the past year. Even the house's front lawn where Zimmerman first spotted Trayvon, that very same house had been broke into a few months back. And Zimmerman had partially stopped that robbery , but some goods were still stolen. It was a complex riddled with break ins, hence the need to introduce a neighborhood watch guy in the first place! So that was what Zimmerman was referring to. You see, there are so many little facts which don't really mean anything unless you use it to suit your account. But you must be well versed in both sides.
What fact have you highlighted here? Was there a burglary in progress? Did the police control room tell him to back off or not? Did this utter failure of a human being decide to play cop and ignore the instructions of the police or not? And can we also stop pretending like Neighborhood watch is some big deal...I've been to America, and every other suburb/street has a neighborhood watch sign posted on lamposts or similar.

You can keep trying to justify this murder, which is what it was...and the fact that so many of the jurors are now breaking their silence and saying, they knew in their hearts it was murder, but the scope of the law prevented them from convicting him.

That Fox News - the standard bearer of racist white america is his biggest defender(I know he's half latino) tells me all I need to do about this case and individual.

All I know is, if the roles were reversed, Trayvon would have been convicted.
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  #10  
Old July 30, 2013, 02:13 AM
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Roey, how about you wear a hoodie and walk around some of the "nicer" gated communities in FL. Come back and tell us your experiences please - I have a feeling you may change your position.

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  #11  
Old July 30, 2013, 02:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RazabQ
Roey, how about you wear a hoodie and walk around some of the "nicer" gated communities in FL. Come back and tell us your experiences please - I have a feeling you may change your position.

- As myself
Excellent! In the back of my mind, I was hoping for a reaction like this.

So despite me wanting a jail sentence for Zimmerman, just the very fact that I'm raising the issue that the defendant could be innocent based on how the trial went down, somehow makes me a Zimmerman apologist?
Now I'm only using you as an example here, so chill. But why is this? Why do people automatically resort to "oh, you don't know, what it's like to be profiled and so and so". This is very important because any such claims taint the case in my opinion. Because even if I was profiled,it doesn't mean jack. Because there is no way to prove it and it cannot be admitted into court as evidence.
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  #12  
Old July 30, 2013, 03:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gladiators

You can keep trying to justify this murder, which is what it was...and the fact that so many of the jurors are now breaking their silence and saying, they knew in their hearts it was murder, but the scope of the law prevented them from convicting him.
I don't believe it was murder but manslaughter, and I wanted a jail sentence as I've already said in the first post. But making him out to be a cold blooded killer, that's what I don't like. Like someone mentioned before, Zimmerman now probably has to constantly watch his back in fear that someone may recognize him and retaliate. I don't think he deserves this for squeezing the trigger in what he believed was a threat on his life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gladiators
That Fox News - the standard bearer of racist white america is his biggest defender(I know he's half latino) tells me all I need to do about this case and individual.
But other news channels have been guilty in this case for pushing an agenda as well. NBC distorting Zimmerman's 911 call to make it seem like he was a racist. MSNBC having on Rev. Al Sharpton 24/7 as if he's some sort of expert in criminal justice.

I hate Fox. But I would never let that override my willingness to still check with every news channel to gather evidence. Especially when they take such bipolar views on the same case.
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Old July 30, 2013, 03:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roey Haque
I don't believe it was murder but manslaughter, and I wanted a jail sentence as I've already said in the first post. But making him out to be a cold blooded killer, that's what I don't like. Like someone mentioned before, Zimmerman now probably has to constantly watch his back in fear that someone may recognize him and retaliate. I don't think he deserves this for squeezing the trigger in what he believed was a threat on his life.
A threat he invited on himself when he despite the explicit instructions of the Police followed and confronted Trayvon. I hope he has to watch his back the rest of his life..at least he has a rest of his life, while Trayvon is rotting 6 feet underground.

You constantly speak of Zimmerman and the threat to his life, what about the fear Trayvon must have felt as a stranger followed him/stalked him and then confronted him?

You have every right to sympathize with the fat murdering piece of ****, me I'm hoping there is retribution and that he gets gunned down like the lowlife scumbag he is.
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  #14  
Old July 31, 2013, 12:49 AM
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This is what most GZ supporets/fans do;
they disregard everything, and start their account of the event with the moment Trayvon supposedly was about to kill GZ .
But what happened before that?
The only account of the full happenings before that comes from GZ's mouth, and we know it can be very biased in his favor.

He followed/stalked Trayvon by his own admission

Then did he show his gun to him, or ask him to stop or just try to attack him?

And its hillarious when we hear accounts on how Trayvon was a criminal in the making, and how his FB posts showed criminal intent etc etc

Lets talk GZ's past, shall we? One that includes assaulting police, beating up women, being fired from security jobs for assaulting people, and stalking people for littering from a car.
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  #15  
Old July 31, 2013, 12:30 PM
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Am I happy? No; how can I?
Am I sad or angry ? No. Not really.
Am I satisfied with the verdict? Yes


I didn't care much about one way or another about the verdict untill some people tried to make it a race issue. At that point I was hoping that Zimmerman doesn't become a scape-goat to satisfy the public pressure and kind of happy that it didn't impact the judgement.

I trust on jury sysetm and have no problem with the verdict. law is blind ... most of the cases its good, in some cases it may not be good ... but this is the way it is ... you take the good and the bad. As I was not a jury and don't know what evidence was presented and what was considered non-relevent (to this case), its hard for me to say whether its right or wrong decision.

btw Zimmerman was also half hispanic. So I never bought into those sterio type race card played by some people. Aslo Zimmerman may not be the angel, and may have done some bad things in the past, but he was not completely evil... after a verdict... he saved some lifes in an street accident by acting quickly rather than watching as a bystander for police to save their lives.
Zimmerman was one of two men who came to the aid of a family of four -- two parents and two children -- trapped inside a blue Ford Explorer SUV that had rolled over after traveling off the highway in Sanford, Fla. at approximately 5:45 p.m. Thursday, the Seminole County Sheriff's Office said in a statement.
Also I agree that we lost an unfullfiled life at 18, which should have been avoided ... Zimmerman could have avoided the tragedy... so could others who were close to that teenager (including himself).
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Old July 31, 2013, 12:55 PM
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Some people questioned about the construction of jury and some mentioned that they would be happy with some kind of judgement against Zimmerman. In both cases it point towards prosecutor's mistake.

None of the sides can select jury by themselves, but both sides are allowered to remove people from the pool of potential jury. So if the construction of jury was problematic, then prosecutor's team has to take the blame.

On the other hand it looks like a mistake in prosecutor's for not including 3rd degree murder in the first place. They tried to include that at the last moment, but it was too late to include that.

"Jurors will consider charges of second-degree murder — which requires prosecutors to prove Zimmerman had a “depraved mind” and “ill intent” — and the lesser offense of manslaughter. But Judge Debra Nelson blocked a prosecution attempt to add the option of a third-degree murder charge based on the claim that Zimmerman committed child abuse since Martin was a minor."
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Old July 31, 2013, 03:27 PM
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Watch the ending of the video. A Florida woman got 20 years for firing a warning shot. Judge said, "Stand your ground" law doesn't apply. And that right there is the true face of the justice system.
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Old July 31, 2013, 03:40 PM
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"Alexander had just given birth to their child but was staying at her mother’s house. When Rico showed up, he read her phone and saw that she had texted her ex-husband. After a fight ensued, Alexander managed to get to her car. She said she left her keys and had to go back, this time taking her gun for protection.
That’s when she fired the warning shot near Rico, without hitting him. Two children ages 10 and 13 were in the house at the time, whom the prosecution argued could’ve been killed. Since she left the house and then returned with a gun, she was not allowed to use the Stand Your Ground law as a defense." from Fox.


That's the explaination they provided.

Also interesting is :
"After the sentencing, Rep. Corrine Brown confronted State Attorney Angela Corey in the hallway, accusing her of being overzealous, according to video from CNN affiliate WJXT. "There is no justification for 20 years," Brown told Corey during an exchange frequently interrupted by onlookers. "All the community was asking for was mercy and justice," she said.
Corey said she had offered Alexander a plea bargain that would have resulted in a three-year prison sentence, but Alexander chose to take the case to a jury trial, where a conviction would carry a mandatory sentence under a Florida law known as "10-20-life." - from CNN

Interesting that both cases we had the same State Atorney.
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Old August 1, 2013, 01:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roey Haque
There are little bits of evidence which favor either Zimmerman or Trayvon, and so it could have gone either way. Indeed, the conservative and liberal media are both guilty of only highlighting the facts which suit their account.

Based on what I've researched: Trayvon was the type of kid who would look for trouble. ( Not the sweet goody two shoes kid most of the media portrayed him to be) And Zimmerman himself was an arrogant overzealous neighborhood watch guy. So put the two together, and it's a recipe for disaster. Color is NOT even an issue for me, and I think too much race baiting goes around in USA anyway, but that's just my opinion.

However, I'm not happy with Zimmerman going scott-free. I thought a jail sentence for manslaughter was needed. Maybe 5 years or so. At the end of the day, a 17 year old kid is dead and we should feel sorry. But we should also feel sorry for Zimmerman's situation, as far too many people are calling for his head without hearing all of the evidence. And based on the trial and proceedings, the evidence does indeed slightly favor Zimmerman.

What do you think? Whose side are you on? Or are you sitting in the fence as I am?
What is your evidence for the bolded comment? If trayvon shot zimmerman, because he rightly felt threatened as he was being followed... would you be OK with it? It's not about who is a good person or bad person, nobody deserves an unjust and untimely death.

Zimmerman got away because of stand your ground law, this law is messed up. I was reading a news the other that this gang member got away for 20-25 rounds at car and killing the person inside the car, because the person inside the car shot at them first.
http://www.wctv.tv/home/headlines/92183289.html
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  #20  
Old August 1, 2013, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cricket_pagol
What is your evidence for the bolded comment?
Stolen jewelry and screwdriver found in his bag.
Possession of marijuana.
Drawing graffiti on walls.
Suspended from school 3 times.
Kicked out from his biological mother's house at least a couple of times.

All this is HARDLY bad, but enough to convince someone that he might want to take it on with someone who annoyed him. Especially when there are witnesses at the trial, more than one, who placed Trayvon above Zimmerman. But yes, none of this would have happened if Zimmerman didn't follow him, and so yeah, you're right, stand your ground is messed up.
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Old August 1, 2013, 02:48 AM
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The verdict reached by the Jury was correct but the law itself is surely messed up.
If Trayvon had a gun himself he could have shot Zimmerman too under this law for following him
I liked what Obama had to say about this case
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Old August 1, 2013, 04:28 AM
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Royey, as per a jury (of 6 people) of his peers, there is no could. Zimmerman IS legally innocent. I'm just saying your whole desire to see both sides of the issues could undergo a change. Try the hoodie thing, fer real.
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