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View Poll Results: Should Mushfiqur be stripped of captaincy?
Yes 61 42.07%
No 71 48.97%
Don't know 13 8.97%
Voters: 145. You may not vote on this poll

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  #651  
Old November 9, 2014, 06:28 AM
M.H.Rubel M.H.Rubel is offline
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To me two captain theory is good for us. Mushy in tests Shakib in ODI.
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  #652  
Old November 9, 2014, 10:18 AM
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I like the 3 captain theory. Mash for Odi, Shakib for test, t20 and Mushy for bd village team.
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  #653  
Old November 27, 2014, 08:46 AM
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As per Papon, Mushfiq and gang were making it pretty hard bring in a new player. Mominul had to sit out many matches so that both Riyad and Nasir could go on playing (I guess the comprise was to stick him at #3 instead of letting bat at his natural position #4, where now Riyad bats). Similarly, they could not bring a new spinner (namely A Sunny) to replace Abdur Razzak.

পরিস্থিতি সম্পর্কে ধারণা দিতে গিয়ে নাজমুল হাসান বলেন, “আসার পর দেখেছি, এই দলে নতুন খেলোয়াড়দের আসা খুব কঠিন হয়ে যাচ্ছিল। ওখানে কোনো সুযোগ খুঁজে পাওয়া যাচ্ছিল না। এমন একটা পরিস্থিতি ছিল যে, আমি এত নাম্বারে খেলি, এখানেই খেলব এবং এখানে পরিবর্তন আনার কোনো সুযোগ নেই।”

Papon thinks the newfound team performance is due to be able to break this deadlock.

http://bangla.bdnews24.com/cricket/article888283.bdnews
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  #654  
Old November 27, 2014, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
As per Papon, Mushfiq and gang were making it pretty hard bring in a new player. Mominul had to sit out many matches so that both Riyad and Nasir could go on playing (I guess the comprise was to stick him at #3 instead of letting bat at his natural position #4, where now Riyad bats). Similarly, they could not bring a new spinner (namely A Sunny) to replace Abdur Razzak.

পরিস্থিতি সম্পর্কে ধারণা দিতে গিয়ে নাজমুল হাসান বলেন, “আসার পর দেখেছি, এই দলে নতুন খেলোয়াড়দের আসা খুব কঠিন হয়ে যাচ্ছিল। ওখানে কোনো সুযোগ খুঁজে পাওয়া যাচ্ছিল না। এমন একটা পরিস্থিতি ছিল যে, আমি এত নাম্বারে খেলি, এখানেই খেলব এবং এখানে পরিবর্তন আনার কোনো সুযোগ নেই।”

Papon thinks the newfound team performance is due to be able to break this deadlock.

http://bangla.bdnews24.com/cricket/article888283.bdnews
Wow. There was a mafia like syndicate in the team. Papon did a good job breaking that.
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  #655  
Old November 27, 2014, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
As per Papon, Mushfiq and gang were making it pretty hard bring in a new player. Mominul had to sit out many matches so that both Riyad and Nasir could go on playing (I guess the comprise was to stick him at #3 instead of letting bat at his natural position #4, where now Riyad bats). Similarly, they could not bring a new spinner (namely A Sunny) to replace Abdur Razzak.

পরিস্থিতি সম্পর্কে ধারণা দিতে গিয়ে নাজমুল হাসান বলেন, “আসার পর দেখেছি, এই দলে নতুন খেলোয়াড়দের আসা খুব কঠিন হয়ে যাচ্ছিল। ওখানে কোনো সুযোগ খুঁজে পাওয়া যাচ্ছিল না। এমন একটা পরিস্থিতি ছিল যে, আমি এত নাম্বারে খেলি, এখানেই খেলব এবং এখানে পরিবর্তন আনার কোনো সুযোগ নেই।”

Papon thinks the newfound team performance is due to be able to break this deadlock.

http://bangla.bdnews24.com/cricket/article888283.bdnews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habib
Wow. There was a mafia like syndicate in the team. Papon did a good job breaking that.
That's the problem when we give unconditional support to our players/politicians! All nice guys turn into a monster!!
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  #656  
Old November 27, 2014, 11:58 AM
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And, that's the problem when we believe everything we read in a two bits newspaper without verifying it. We as a community really should stop spreading half-news and gossips. It really is not becoming of us.
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  #657  
Old November 27, 2014, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
As per Papon, Mushfiq and gang were making it pretty hard bring in a new player. Mominul had to sit out many matches so that both Riyad and Nasir could go on playing (I guess the comprise was to stick him at #3 instead of letting bat at his natural position #4, where now Riyad bats). Similarly, they could not bring a new spinner (namely A Sunny) to replace Abdur Razzak.

পরিস্থিতি সম্পর্কে ধারণা দিতে গিয়ে নাজমুল হাসান বলেন, “আসার পর দেখেছি, এই দলে নতুন খেলোয়াড়দের আসা খুব কঠিন হয়ে যাচ্ছিল। ওখানে কোনো সুযোগ খুঁজে পাওয়া যাচ্ছিল না। এমন একটা পরিস্থিতি ছিল যে, আমি এত নাম্বারে খেলি, এখানেই খেলব এবং এখানে পরিবর্তন আনার কোনো সুযোগ নেই।”

Papon thinks the newfound team performance is due to be able to break this deadlock.

http://bangla.bdnews24.com/cricket/article888283.bdnews
As an outsider with little knowledge what's going on behind the screen, I was also suspecting that they were too slow to give opportunity to new players when established players were struggling. Papon's comment (politically correct or not) validates what some of us were complaining for so long.

Its already on the record that at every opportunity that he got, Rahim used to publicly humiliate (throw them uner the bus) the young players under his leadership and used to defend his older under performing players.

As for me, glad to hear that Papon also had the same concern.
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  #658  
Old November 28, 2014, 08:27 AM
jeesh jeesh is offline
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50-50 news for me.

On one hand if its true, then kudos to BCB, team management on shedding light on this.

On the other hand its hard the believe the players having so much influence. Our selectors are very much involved in the process, some of them even accompany teams on tours even playing a role in selection of the final XI. And if players did have more influence than the coach why didnt they appoint a tougher head coach long time back before a lot of the damage was done.
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  #659  
Old November 28, 2014, 08:43 AM
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Shameful if true, glad he was sacked
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  #660  
Old November 28, 2014, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeesh
And if players did have more influence than the coach why didnt they appoint a tougher head coach long time back before a lot of the damage was done.
Under Papon, that's what they did. Didn't he? First he gave a chance to old coach to grow some backbone, he failed and pretty much singing the same song as Rahim. Capatin and the coach had one-to-one meeting with Papon and both of them said the same thing i.e. against bringing new players... according to them its creating uncertainty and pressure among existing players.

At that point Papon decided to bring a new coach.

Don't know about other BCB members, Papon on the record repeatedly said, if existing players repeatedly fails, he is in favor of giving chance to new players. Papon was very consistent on this issue, and he systematically made moves to achieve that.
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  #661  
Old November 29, 2014, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal
Under Papon, that's what they did. Didn't he? First he gave a chance to old coach to grow some backbone, he failed and pretty much singing the same song as Rahim. Capatin and the coach had one-to-one meeting with Papon and both of them said the same thing i.e. against bringing new players... according to them its creating uncertainty and pressure among existing players.

At that point Papon decided to bring a new coach.

Don't know about other BCB members, Papon on the record repeatedly said, if existing players repeatedly fails, he is in favor of giving chance to new players. Papon was very consistent on this issue, and he systematically made moves to achieve that.
See that attitude among players is ridiculous, make runs and take wickets that's how you ensure your place, it's not supposed to be easy to keep your place it is hard work but if you want to be there then that is what you have to do. Glad they brought in a new coach if that was his attitude and glad they've now got mash for ODIs because it's the wrong attitude and the coache and captain certainly shouldn't be thinking like that. Perform or get out.
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  #662  
Old November 29, 2014, 03:14 AM
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Apparently its not so easy now. The new head coach is very strict, and although he wont come to the foreground, behind the scenes there is a lot more rules and control. He has been working to shun individualism and is working on developing a collective unit-which made him very unpopular also on how he reported Shakib.

No offence, but SJ was extremely paly with the players-they were like his peers and soldiers. Once there was even an article where he was quoted saying players need to be managed like adults not children. Not sure such an approach will always work with any of our sporting teams. There needs to be discipline and process. Sth thats clearly there atm, and its yielding some fruit.
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  #663  
Old November 29, 2014, 03:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeesh
Apparently its not so easy now. The new head coach is very strict, and although he wont come to the foreground, behind the scenes there is a lot more rules and control. He has been working to shun individualism and is working on developing a collective unit-which made him very unpopular also on how he reported Shakib.

No offence, but SJ was extremely paly with the players-they were like his peers and soldiers. Once there was even an article where he was quoted saying players need to be managed like adults not children. Not sure such an approach will always work with any of our sporting teams. There needs to be discipline and process. Sth thats clearly there atm, and its yielding some fruit.
Dont count your chickens just yet. We lost 13 ODIs this year and a fair share of those were under Hatura.

Furthermore, it's not wise to think strict rules always bear fruit. Just look at Lehmann. His carefree attitude clearly worked wonders for them. For an example closer to home, refer back to Stuart Law. He wasn't a taskmaster by any means but I haven't seen our players play better cricket than when they were with him.

Winning a bunch of games against Zimbabwe at home should never be the yardstick to measure the success/failure of the coach, or the captain for that matter. I dont think Hatura had any impact on our players, to be honest. He must shoulder some blame for our listless display in WI. I just can't see how he can improve the individual players, or increase the team spirit by enforcing a bedtime.
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  #664  
Old November 29, 2014, 03:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
See that attitude among players is ridiculous, make runs and take wickets that's how you ensure your place, it's not supposed to be easy to keep your place it is hard work but if you want to be there then that is what you have to do. Glad they brought in a new coach if that was his attitude and glad they've now got mash for ODIs because it's the wrong attitude and the coache and captain certainly shouldn't be thinking like that. Perform or get out.
I don't think for a moment what Papon said is true. He's a Fu*king politician, lying is the name of the game for him. And the source of the news isn't very trustworthy as well.

It is true that a culture has been created where it was difficult for a new players to come in, and that's not a bad thing, per se. A decade back we were trying new players every other day and that led to nowhere. Since 2010, we stuck with a core group of players and that bore fruit. We had the best year in our cricket history in 2012-13. It's not a coincidence that it came on the back of some excellent cricket from a set of players that played together as a settled unit for a long time.

People think all of our problem was with the captain and coach because the new combination is winning against Zim . Hold on just a minute, wait until the WC and then pass judgement.
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  #665  
Old November 29, 2014, 03:43 AM
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You do remember how we initially did under Stuart Law right, including getting beaten in Zimbabwe? And whether our success under him at Asia Cup was because of him or confidence from BPL, or work done by JS- its still debatable.

Lehmann is a terrific motivator and man manager, but doesnt mean there are no rules in the Aussie camp. He is much more involved and under players skin compared to his predecessor and hence their improvement. And lets not forget players from Australia etc are inherently more professional and values tuned towards working hard. Siddons, Whatmore, Greenidge were all very tough characters, who may have seemed soft on the outside but were very demanding and firm. After Pybus's departure there was absolute anarchy. Yes we did manage to win quite a bit, but eventually the lack of seriousness, lack of commitment, lack of process, lack discipline caught up which resulted in a terrible 2014.

If you havent seen any improvement in this current series, then i am not sure what you ve been watching. Not just the batting, even the bowling seems better under Streak and Kalpage. Fielding could be better, but its definitely better compared to the days of Corey Richards and Jason Swift.

True winning against Zimbabwe shouldnt be a yardstick, but heres a start! Wonder what you would have said if we lost a game or two.
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  #666  
Old November 29, 2014, 03:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashfaq
I don't think for a moment what Papon said is true. He's a Fu*king politician, lying is the name of the game for him. And the source of the news isn't very trustworthy as well.

It is true that a culture has been created where it was difficult for a new players to come in, and that's not a bad thing, per se. A decade back we were trying new players every other day and that led to nowhere. Since 2010, we stuck with a core group of players and that bore fruit. We had the best year in our cricket history in 2012-13. It's not a coincidence that it came on the back of some excellent cricket from a set of players that played together as a settled unit for a long time.

People think all of our problem was with the captain and coach because the new combination is winning against Zim . Hold on just a minute, wait until the WC and then pass judgement.
Here's the problem. We werent winning against Zimbabwe either!
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  #667  
Old November 29, 2014, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashfaq
I don't think for a moment what Papon said is true. He's a Fu*king politician, lying is the name of the game for him. And the source of the news isn't very trustworthy as well.

It is true that a culture has been created where it was difficult for a new players to come in, and that's not a bad thing, per se. A decade back we were trying new players every other day and that led to nowhere. Since 2010, we stuck with a core group of players and that bore fruit. We had the best year in our cricket history in 2012-13. It's not a coincidence that it came on the back of some excellent cricket from a set of players that played together as a settled unit for a long time.

People think all of our problem was with the captain and coach because the new combination is winning against Zim . Hold on just a minute, wait until the WC and then pass judgement.
Excellent post this, Ashfaq.

You're absolutely bang bang on about our politicians and "news" outlets. Papon is a shady character by all counts. He makes Lota look a ferista. There are so many things happening behind the closed door. Shala wants to get rid of settled players "for the sake of BD cricket" but no mention of down-sizing his fellow thieving party members looting the coffers of BCB as Board directors. Gazi TV deal also needs to be urgently investigated.

As for Haturi da, I think he was a bit unlucky to come in when some of the most performing players (Tamim, Nasir and, even, Mushy) went out of form and Shakib was suspended. But, yes, we will have a better idea after the WC.
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  #668  
Old November 29, 2014, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeesh
You do remember how we initially did under Stuart Law right, including getting beaten in Zimbabwe? And whether our success under him at Asia Cup was because of him or confidence from BPL, or work done by JS- its still debatable.

Lehmann is a terrific motivator and man manager, but doesnt mean there are no rules in the Aussie camp. He is much more involved and under players skin compared to his predecessor and hence their improvement. And lets not forget players from Australia etc are inherently more professional and values tuned towards working hard. Siddons, Whatmore, Greenidge were all very tough characters, who may have seemed soft on the outside but were very demanding and firm. After Pybus's departure there was absolute anarchy. Yes we did manage to win quite a bit, but eventually the lack of seriousness, lack of commitment, lack of process, lack discipline caught up which resulted in a terrible 2014.

If you havent seen any improvement in this current series, then i am not sure what you ve been watching. Not just the batting, even the bowling seems better under Streak and Kalpage. Fielding could be better, but its definitely better compared to the days of Corey Richards and Jason Swift.

True winning against Zimbabwe shouldnt be a yardstick, but heres a start! Wonder what you would have said if we lost a game or two.
We lost to zim in zim under Law, true. Remember that at home, with pacer friendly pitches, they can still beat us irrespective of coaches,

As for improvement of our batting, please enlighten me. If the Zim bowlers didn't serve up long hops every over, or didn't field like school boys, we'd be in serious trouble every game. And the bowling would have looked toothless if the zim batsmen weren't so damned inpatient.

I'm not saying we're worse off now, but I'm unwilling to say we've had our problems solved. However, let's agree that its a start.
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  #669  
Old November 29, 2014, 01:43 PM
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I am not entirely going to believe those statements. This thing is not on Cricinfo which means it may not be entirely true.

But some mentioned that we did lose a good number of matches against WI and India under Hatura's tenure. First you cannot make an assumption on a coach on the basis of a couple of series. Hatura was coaching a team that just lost to Afghanistan and HK. And the reason why we lost plenty of matches over time was due to "NERVES" or rather the lack of it.

We were overdependant of Nasir and I was crying about it in the last 1.5 years. Now Nasir goes out of form and we started losing matches we should have won. Gazi became absolute rubbish. Our fielding was horrible. In this series we improved very well in the fielding department but batting and bowling was ordinary. Yes we won but more because of the poor show by Zimboks
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  #670  
Old November 29, 2014, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashfaq
We lost to zim in zim under Law, true. Remember that at home, with pacer friendly pitches, they can still beat us irrespective of coaches,

As for improvement of our batting, please enlighten me. If the Zim bowlers didn't serve up long hops every over, or didn't field like school boys, we'd be in serious trouble every game. And the bowling would have looked toothless if the zim batsmen weren't so damned inpatient.

I'm not saying we're worse off now, but I'm unwilling to say we've had our problems solved. However, let's agree that its a start.
Er what? Zimbabwe bowling was ordinary but they didn't bowl that bad and their fielding was really good. I watched almost every moment of this series and I am stating my own opinion based on what I saw. If anything, it was bowlers who were dishing out a half volley or short stuff every over. In the 4th ODI, Abul bowled so many short and wide stuff yet returned with decent figures. Against teams like SA he would have scored a 100, not with the bat though.
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  #671  
Old November 29, 2014, 05:59 PM
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In my opinion Mushy is the worst captain we ever had..His team selection, bowling change, field settings, no lesson learnt and above all , his off field issues lead his downfall. He is a dedicated sportsman but not a right person to lead our team.
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  #672  
Old November 29, 2014, 09:17 PM
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Zimbabwe's bowling has been very disciplined more than anything else-much more than ours anyway. They ve stuck to a plan, bowled in the channels. They probably missed Jarvis, Vitori, Utseya, but i am pretty sure thats not an excuse they will try to use.

But remember the Bangadeshi batsmen who were struggling to hold the bat and occupy the crease against Afghanistan and Hong Kong. Put those guys against this Zimbabwe lineup, you never know what could have happened.

Whatever work the coaches (I am not saying one individual) have done seems to have helped Tamim get back to some form. Riyad looks much improved. All others have shown more intent on occupying crease, playing with a plan. I d call this some improvement.

Even with our bowling. Pacers are bowling a much better line. SJ being a bowling oriented coach had several years to change our bowlers, i see more change with Heath Streak in a few months.

Bottomline its a professional coaching unit with both playing and coaching experience. They will certainly put us back on track. Obviously its easy to say we could have been better off with Andy Flowers and Tom Moody's, but i d take the current group ahead of guys like SJ and Pybus.

We might not agree with Papon, but Mushfiq has often shown favoration towards Riyad-quite blatantly in the past despite his poor performances. Although his commitment as an individual player is excellent, i am not sure he was doing the best as a leader. Glad selectors, team management have realized.
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  #673  
Old November 29, 2014, 11:00 PM
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Eshen Eshen is offline
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If you are looking for another news source, here is one -

New Age: Nazmul admits to player’s syndicate

Also, here is a reminder what kind of lame logic Mushfiq and SJ used to make to keep non-performing seniors in the team -

Quote:
বোর্ড থেকে আগেই পরিষ্কার বার্তা দেওয়া আছে, যারা পারফর্ম করবে না, তাদের যেন দলের বাইরে রাখা হয়। কোনো কোনো ক্ষেত্রে সেই বার্তা মানা হচ্ছে না কেন—জানতে চাইলে কোচ-অধিনায়কের কথায় ফুটে উঠেছে ‘মানবিকতা’। সভায় উপস্থিত এক বোর্ড কর্মকর্তার ভাষ্য, ‘কাউকে বাদ দেওয়া হলে তারা কী মনে করবে..., তাদের যদি মন খারাপ হয়...এসব কারণেই নাকি খারাপ খেললেও কাউকে বাদ দেওয়া হচ্ছে না।’

হংকং-ট্র্যাজেডি ভোলার অপেক্ষা
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  #674  
Old November 30, 2014, 12:07 AM
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reyme reyme is offline
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Join Date: May 19, 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rana Melb
In my opinion Mushy is the worst captain we ever had..His team selection, bowling change, field settings, no lesson learnt and above all , his off field issues lead his downfall. He is a dedicated sportsman but not a right person to lead our team.
You are not exaggerating, pretty spot on. If we watch few games earlier this year under Mushys leadership, it was very obvious his poor captaincy coupled with spineless coaching by Shane cost us match after match. Shane was a yes man and did lot more harm than good. Glad that captaincy has changed at least in ODI and the head coach is keeping things pretty disciplined. The results are now started to show up on the field.

Under previous combo we would have done a lot worse in the current series. There was a reason we lost to HK and AFG.
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  #675  
Old November 30, 2014, 06:49 AM
mij mij is offline
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Join Date: September 21, 2004
Location: London, UK
Posts: 4,610

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
If you are looking for another news source, here is one -

New Age: Nazmul admits to player’s syndicate

Also, here is a reminder what kind of lame logic Mushfiq and SJ used to make to keep non-performing seniors in the team -
Far as I know Habla is another one against new comer, what I heard from him while back on TV.
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