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  #26  
Old February 15, 2007, 11:49 PM
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Beamer Beamer is offline
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Great stuff babubangla !

Daily Star has dissapointed me massively since Pilot's non-inclusion. They have never backed up their position with any written arguements for the non-inclusion. If they had done so, I would have at least put forth some counter arguements simmilar to what babubangla has aptly shown. You can't reason with someone who doesn't know what it is !Instead, they have taken a cheap populist position and now have resorted to publishing garbage, tired, old opinions of bonehead fans. I understand they like Pilot very much. So, do we, for what he has done over the years. But, there comes a time when the writing is all over the wall, and if you don't see, then I guess nothing would matter. I have completely lost respect for the sports editor of Daily Star and Prothom-alo. Never thought that would happen.

Shahriyar...saw your post on DS today. Good plug for BC..yeh??
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  #27  
Old February 15, 2007, 11:49 PM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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billah bhai,

mushfiq is a better batsman than mashud. and even now, with all the pressures of WC on an 18 year old, young mushy can give us at least what pilot can. thats not to say that we are guranteed that mushy will have success. but the only thing we are losing with mushy in, pilot out is experience. and frankly pilot's experience, however vast, is not going to make a world of difference to our team.

pilot is not a captain, top order batsman, key bowler, or star performer...he has virtually no experience that would drastically alter a game.

and mushy's keeping is much better than people think. he may be a better keeper and a better batsman than pilot right now.

it was a good decision to let pilot go.
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  #28  
Old February 16, 2007, 12:16 AM
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[quote=Beamer;373558]Great stuff babubangla !

Daily Star has dissapointed me massively since Pilot's non-inclusion. They have never backed up their position with any written arguements for the non-inclusion. If they had done so, I would have at least put forth some counter arguements simmilar to what babubangla has aptly shown. You can't reason with someone who doesn't know what it is !Instead, they have taken a cheap populist position and now have resorted to publishing garbage, tired, old opinions of bonehead fans. I understand they like Pilot very much. So, do we, for what he has done over the years. But, there comes a time when the writing is all over the wall, and if you don't see, then I guess nothing would matter. I have completely lost respect for the sports editor of Daily Star and Prothom-alo. Never thought that would happen.

Shahriyar...saw your post on DS today. Good plug for BC..yeh??[/quote]


Well I just wanted them to know that there are fans all over the world who support and welcome the selector's decision in case they havent seen it already in BC. The way they have been writing about this incident is disappointing to say the least. It was all one sided which is why I encouraged BB to send this to DS. BB if you dont have the time then I have a friend who works for DS. I can email this to him with your permission offcourse and taking all the credits for the writing myself. :p
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  #29  
Old February 16, 2007, 01:15 AM
billah billah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shahriyar
Billah Bhai I cannot agree with your statement that it is not possible to compare Mushfique with Pilot in terms of batting.
Pilot: 126 matches, 3315 balls faced. Runs scored: 1818
Rahim: 9 matches, 269 balls faced. Runs scored: 151

Please refere to the picture of the apple and the three-quarter wingnut in my previous post. Case closed.

Quote:
If this was the case then you could not compare any batsman with one another.
Not so. I can compare Tendulkar and Inzamam. Both scored 10,000 runs in ODI in the same era. Very comparable.

Quote:
But the main thing I wanted to show you was that even by looking at their batting any person who knows about batting would be able to say that Mushfique is a much better batter than Pilot and that is the answer I expected from you as well. Agreed that Mushfique has not played against top teams but for sure he will be more successful against them than Pilot. You can just wait for the WC matches and find out. If this is not the case then I will think that I do not understand cricket at all.
If I were to compare Rahim and Pilot as batsmen, I would be taking the same risk you are taking on your reputation

Quote:
However "success" is a very tricky term and it all boils down to perspective. If mushfique does not waste balls like PIlot does and scores a decent 30 in the world cup I would call him more successful than Pilot.( thats how bad Pilot is)
I wish Mushfiq every success. But, for the heck of it, let's save this moment and these comments. It would backfire on our face if he flops. Under pressure, Mushfiq flopped badly. Not once, several times. For a young cricketer his age, it's natural he would fumble under pressure. In time, he will adjust well. He will probably be one of our best middle order bat.

But, letting him use our world cup matches to practice for that, while our real wicketkeeper sits home? It's just bad judgement. Regardless of what kind of consensus the number-crunchers build in favor of it.
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  #30  
Old February 16, 2007, 01:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RazabQ
Billah, forget the numbers. Do your eyes tell you, based on watching matches for the last year or so that Pilot will do a better job of batting than Mushy in the WC? Yes or No?

Nice post BB.
100%
Freakin
Abso-freakin-lutely
no-freakin-doubt-in-my-mind
Yeeeeeeeeeeeesss.

Aside from that, I see you are finally steppin away from those ever-slippery number analysis in Rahim's defense. There is light.... For me, that's one nut down, several more to go..haha...
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  #31  
Old February 16, 2007, 01:29 AM
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Well if I were to reply to your post then I presume you would do too and it would carry on for sometime. I will come back to this thread after the first round matches of Bangladesh and yes I am willing to put my reputation on the line in terms of my cricketing knowledge as far as Rahim being better than Pilot.

JUst could not resist one thing though. I think you might have misunderstood my post. When I asked you to compare Rahim with Pilot I meant purely from a "watching them bat" point of view, ie looking at their techniques and the ease with which they play shots, the types of shots they have in their arsenal and overall the quality of batting that each has to offer. By showing their stats you have relied on numbers and bought in the experience factor for Pilot. I was only asking for comparison from a purely "batting talent" point of view and the probability of Rahim being better based on his batting abilities which I think is better than PIlot's. In that sense you can compare a Habibul Bashar with Tendulkar even though both dont have the same amount of matches. I hope that made some sense.
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  #32  
Old February 16, 2007, 01:35 AM
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I liked that one innings Rahim played in England. I think he needs some muscle on his bones. I saw him in a few other instances. He has the right height. Sorry I missed the Zimbabwe innings but, saw him batting in Bogra. Nothing impressive. I can't just make it up and. In his whole illustrious "career" he hit only nine 4s. Never hit a sixer.

Hmm... the more I think, the more I get that sinking feeling about this poor young chap. If you folks are not careful, you're gonna make a Hannan out of him. He isn't a force of nature that some of us are making him to be.....
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  #33  
Old February 16, 2007, 01:58 AM
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Billah bhai: That's playing really safe. Just because there's no info on Pilot's number of 4s and 6s in ODi, you're comparing him with Mushfiq. But here's something you may want to see.

Code:
class	 mat	 inns	 no	 runs	 hs	 ave	 bf	 sr	 100	 50	 4s	 6s	 ct	 st
Tests	  41	  79	  9	  1361	  103*	  19.44	  3970	  34.28	  1	  3	  145	  1	  75	  8
Just one six???? Ouch...that hurt!

Anyway, you can argue all that you want to. But here's the deal. He has made sufficient contributions to the team, but now it's time for new players to take over. He has played 126 ODIs, and scored 1818 valuable runs for us, with a highest of 71*. Thank you for the greatest contribution any cricketer has made for Bangladesh...we can give him a BC medal (gold) and honor him. But please, bringing someone in just based on the merit of his contribution more than a year ago is unacceptable.

By the way, in this case you may want to argue with Ashraful's inclusion, as he hasn't proved anything. I'll tell you this...Ashraful's inclusion isn't something to be excited about in recent year or two. But he at least performed in domestic level. Pilot failed to do even that. Jokes.
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  #34  
Old February 16, 2007, 02:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billah
100%
Freakin
Abso-freakin-lutely
no-freakin-doubt-in-my-mind
Yeeeeeeeeeeeesss.
guess we'll have to agree to disagree then
Quote:
Originally Posted by billah
100%Aside from that, I see you are finally steppin away from those ever-slippery number analysis in Rahim's defense.
Go back and check my posts. I never used stats for my justification though they _do_ provide one datapoint. I merely went with what I saw and what I saw jives well with what a WC winning cricket coach and some other smart ppl seem to be seeing (I dare you to call BB a knucklehead - I double dare you ) And what I saw was a great player who has lost his physical ability to play the kind of gritty but effective knocks, leaving merely the grit. And in that context, the kid deserves the shot.
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  #35  
Old February 16, 2007, 03:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabir
Billah bhai: That's playing really safe. Just because there's no info on Pilot's number of 4s and 6s in ODi, you're comparing him with Mushfiq. But here's something you may want to see.

Code:
class     mat     inns     no     runs     hs     ave     bf     sr     100     50     4s     6s     ct     st
Tests      41      79      9      1361      103*      19.44      3970      34.28      1      3      145      1      75      8
Just one six???? Ouch...that hurt!
Kabir: so, how are you justifying comparing test data with ODI data? I was not putting up data to maliciously distort facts, man.

Quote:
Anyway, you can argue all that you want to. But here's the deal. He has made sufficient contributions to the team, but now it's time for new players to take over.
Exactly my feeling also. In case you missed it, please read this. Better yet, just go to the front page of your site.

http://banglacricket.com/html/article.php?item=438

Quote:
He has played 126 ODIs, and scored 1818 valuable runs for us, with a highest of 71*. Thank you for the greatest contribution any cricketer has made for Bangladesh...we can give him a BC medal (gold) and honor him. But please, bringing someone in just based on the merit of his contribution more than a year ago is unacceptable.
So, replacing an experienced ODI player with someone that has played 9 matches and scored a total of 151 runs, for the WORLD CUP is acceptable? I suggest you say this out loud several times to yourself. I bet it would sound quite odd.

Quote:
By the way, in this case you may want to argue with Ashraful's inclusion, as he hasn't proved anything. I'll tell you this...Ashraful's inclusion isn't something to be excited about in recent year or two. But he at least performed in domestic level. Pilot failed to do even that. Jokes.
I'm sure, you missed my point on bringing Ashraful in this. Ash's numbers look bad also. Should we dump him also? After all, we are using the numbers arguments to justify replacing Pilot with Mushfiq? Oh, here's another important fact you forgot here:

Ashraful's job description - Middle Order batsman
Pilot's job description - Wicket keeper

Pilot's club team is not expecting a double century from him every match. He has batted reasonably in the domestic league. Ash needed a double century to get back in the national team. If you wanted Pilot to do the same, you should have told him that about 20 years ago. That way he could also have prepared himself to be a middle order bat, instead of WK.

Cheers. I just hope, sincerely hope and pray that Mushfiq does well both in wicketkeeping and batting.
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  #36  
Old February 16, 2007, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billah
So, now I see where your confusion is. Clearly, your thought process has reached a limit when you decided:

Having better average than Pilot's is proof positive of a "Capable Batsman". Wow! Really?

Let's expand that logic:

Rana should be included instead of Ashraful
Mehrab Jr. Should replace Tamim, and, and...
Javed Omar should replace Habibul !

Brilliant ! Boy them numbers ! They never lie...using that argument, heck, we can easily put Nannu back in the team. And, and.. oh our Shahriar Nafees is actually better than both Tendulkar and Inzamam !

Why this would be like, sitting in the selection commitee room in Navana Tower, looking at 30 pieces of papers with numbers on them. The team would look very peculiar, man !
Billah bhai, understanding is the most important part of any discussion which you are clearly lacking at least in this case.

You can twist posts, make your own conclusions and try to find some bizarre correlation.

Look at the mirror and I hope you will find the answer.

I don't want to engage in any further debate with you in this matter.

Thank you.
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  #37  
Old February 16, 2007, 07:23 AM
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As always... great work BB bhai.

guess we cant get enough of our current fav time pass...
Pilot and his omission from the national team.

But in this one, i think the selectors has done a good job.

Here is my two cents,
To reach the next stage, we have to take our chances..
and im ready to take those chances with Tamim and Mushfiq.

Only time can tell us if we were right or wrong...
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  #38  
Old February 16, 2007, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billah

Ashraful's job description - Middle Order batsman
Pilot's job description - Wicket keeper
Sorry to disagree that Pilot's job is only wicket keeping rather than a handy batsman for ODI atleast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billah
Pilot's club team is not expecting a double century from him every match. He has batted reasonably in the domestic league. Ash needed a double century to get back in the national team. If you wanted Pilot to do the same, you should have told him that about 20 years ago. That way he could also have prepared himself to be a middle order bat, instead of WK.
so, he didnt know that he should be prepared as a good middle order batsman as well? then he definitely missed the changing attitute in the team..
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  #39  
Old February 16, 2007, 09:28 AM
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BB thx for ur wonderful post...
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  #40  
Old February 16, 2007, 09:31 AM
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MUSHFIQUR RAHIM

class mat inns no runs hs ave bf sr 100 50 4s 6s ct st
Tests 2 4 0 24 19 6.00 85 28.23 0 0 3 0 1 0
ODIs 9 6 1 151 57 30.20 269 56.13 0 1 9 0 7 3


PILOT

class mat inns no runs hs ave bf sr 100 50 4s 6s ct st
Tests 41 79 9 1361 103* 19.44 3970 34.28 1 3 145 1 75 8
ODIs 126 110 27 1818 71* 21.90 3315 54.84 0 7 91 35


AVERAGE STRIKE RATE 50's predictability Experience in w.keeping TOTAL
RAHIM 1 1 1 0 3
PILOT 0 1 0 1 2


Rahim wins !


[ 1 = WIN, 0 = LOSS , 1&1 = DRAW ]
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  #41  
Old February 16, 2007, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akabir77
Ki kon bhai apnara prothom-alo porley to money hoy bangladesh worldcup jitto kintu pilot key doley na noya sheta hochey na
1. Three selectors r OBHANCHITO in ranjshahi
2. Daily star posted some letters where most of them where angry and unhappy and thinks he is the best keeper in the world.
3. People r saying no pilot no worldcup.

I am confused should i believe my brain or to their CHillachilli...
Kichu lok ache srinkhola bhongokari. Tader mejaj gorm r olpotei uttejito ha pore. Laathi maira thik kora dorkar shalader.
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  #42  
Old February 16, 2007, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billah
Kabir: so, how are you justifying comparing test data with ODI data? I was not putting up data to maliciously distort facts, man.
I've put that only because Pilot doesn't have any ODI stats on 4s and 6s. But as I expected, you don't seem happy about this. My aplogies.

Quote:
So, replacing an experienced ODI player with someone that has played 9 matches and scored a total of 151 runs, for the WORLD CUP is acceptable? I suggest you say this out loud several times to yourself. I bet it would sound quite odd.
I wonder why Viv Richards stopped playing cricket. He was more experienced, had more runs, and much older than many of his team-mates. Oh well, too bad...we can't make the same mistake by letting Pilot go. No way.

Quote:
Ashraful's job description - Middle Order batsman
Pilot's job description - Wicket keeper
And Mushfiq's suggested job description is a wicket-keepter batsman. In case you forgot. Yes, he couldn't prove it yet...but he hasn't played sufficient number of games to prove it yet. And you're comparing his ODI numbers with Pilot's. Why not compare his national level stats with Pilot's. Oh btw...before you do that, do keep in mind that when Pilot started playing at national level, Mushfiq was just a doodher shishu.

And in case you don't know, when numbers aren't comparable in absolute values, they're compared relatively. Mushfiq's experience hasn't reached that level yet to have a relative value...and you seem to be taking advantage of that for proving your numbers.

Quote:
Pilot's club team is not expecting a double century from him every match. He has batted reasonably in the domestic league. Ash needed a double century to get back in the national team. If you wanted Pilot to do the same, you should have told him that about 20 years ago. That way he could also have prepared himself to be a middle order bat, instead of WK.
Bhaijan, please, you didn't understand what I was saying (possibly deliberately). All I was saying is, taking Pilot's under-performance reason, you could also argue about Ashraful's inclusion...but where did I say they're trying for the same role in the team? But since you brought it up, Mushfiq's inclusion is because of just that...he seems to fit well as a middle-order batsman based on his domestic experience, and U-19 WC experience. If that's not enough, I wonder how can new players come into the team. You're probably bringing that into a "chicken and egg" situation...who came out first, domestic level player? Or International level player? Jokes.

Quote:
Cheers. I just hope, sincerely hope and pray that Mushfiq does well both in wicketkeeping and batting.
This is the only place where we agree. I'm sure every Bangladeshi supporter should agree on this
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  #43  
Old February 16, 2007, 10:51 AM
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Pilot is a great wicketkeeper, but his batting was not good enough for an ODI slot.
We will certainly miss his service behind the stumps, but it’s not like that we do not have any wicketkeeper at all. With all that chaos…I seems like we are going to the World Cup without even a single wicketkeeper!!
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  #44  
Old February 16, 2007, 10:52 AM
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Super Stuff!! I wonder how did you collect all those records!! I don't see many pro-pilot post in this thread. Pilot-fans are completely stunned, aren't they?
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  #45  
Old February 16, 2007, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babubangla
Pilot is a great wicketkeeper, but his batting was not good enough for an ODI slot.
We will certainly miss his service behind the stumps, but it’s not like that we do not have any wicketkeeper at all. With all that chaos…I seems like we are going to the World Cup without even a single wicketkeeper!!
Shukh nai re bhai...shukh nai kisutei. Pilot er support dekhe mone hoche he's more famous and powerful than our Bangabondhu. On crap, we now have to rename Banglabondhu stadium into Pilot Stadium, Bongobondhu Bridge into Pilot Bridge...and what not.
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  #46  
Old February 16, 2007, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabir
I wonder why Viv Richards stopped playing cricket. He was more experienced, had more runs, and much older than many of his team-mates. Oh well, too bad...we can't make the same mistake by letting Pilot go. No way.
............:p
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  #47  
Old February 16, 2007, 11:00 AM
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With what i have seen I can compare the maturity level in batting sense of Mushfiq is better than Bashar. When to take a single; When to go for a four? How to rotate strike. Almost in the same level of Sakib.
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  #48  
Old February 16, 2007, 11:28 AM
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I remeber Pilot in tears when he stepped down as the captain. This time he had a little less emotional response. However, he could have been more diplomatic in reacting to his fall from the grace. I am sure there is substance in his public statements. Let me remind you that the team was not selected based on performance alone. If there were so, Ashrafool will have been warming a chair or at best carrying towels and drinks. Nevertheless, Pilot could have said something about is current batting form and a break would give him ths opportunity to straighten things up.
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  #49  
Old February 16, 2007, 12:06 PM
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And the Pilot debate runs on and on and on...
I suggest a truce! Everything that could have been said, has been said. Lets start looking for some other scapegoats now. we have 14 other guys, make your pick!
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  #50  
Old February 16, 2007, 12:15 PM
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BOTTOM LINE

Pilot is the best batsman and keeper we had but Faruk did politics not to take him just like he did not to take goola and akram last time.

SO I say to the pilot supporters

NA NANA NA NA

Winter doesn't leave in month.... (bangla koira nen)
ATo khothar ki dorker. Hazar chillachilli korleo ora nawa jabey na.. Hi HI..
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