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  #51  
Old February 20, 2011, 06:25 AM
firstlane firstlane is offline
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Thank you Coach Pont to take your time and feed us with news & answers. You didnt have to do it. We all have numerous questions about the national team what we would like to ask the captain/head coach. But you stepped up and tried to feed our curisity. In this process sometimes our frustration exploded and you took it on your chin although you are not the only one responsible for running the show. We appreciate that and so glad to see your here.
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  #52  
Old February 20, 2011, 07:06 AM
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Purna Purna is offline
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My first question, why weren't Shuvo anf Nafis chosen in such an important match against India?
Secondly why didn't the coach fix the Riyad and Naeem?
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  #53  
Old February 20, 2011, 12:30 PM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Pont
Ok guys... we are what we are.

We are ranked 8th for a reason (and this an improvement in the last 6 months). The PP is meant to help batting teams but in BD case it actually works against them because the batters lose wickets trying to hit out. For whatever reason, the batsmen have not found their way of coping with it.

I don't have the answers. I am merely saying we don't appear to have the batters to deal with it at this stage. It's so so easy for us all to scratch our heads and wonder why this cannot be worked out. But there has been no solution for a long time. If we had natural hitters to come in at this time then we never have to discuss this. But PP does not stop us from winning matches! We beat NZ 4-0.

Credit to India for being world's number one and professional in their batting. Maybe one day we can dream of being as good as them - but we need players as good as them to be that good. We are trying hard to improve fast. Signs are there. I guess you will all have to wait and hope, like Sri Lankan fans had to wait and hope.

Coaching - and development of players at all levels - is the answer.
Actually, Coach, many of the top teams also struggle in the batting PP. There was another Cricinfo article published just within the last 24 hours, saying that no one had really figured out the batting PP so far. That is probably a bit over the top as teams like Pak and Ind prolly have figured it out very well. However we seem to have the least grip over it.

We don't have any magic answers, but we should have taken it earlier at least in the last India game. In general it should be taken when you have better batsman vs when you don't.

I know we have to wait and hope...we are 8th ranked, and are comining up quickly. We appreciate all the time and hard work the coaches and players are putting through to bring this cup home.
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  #54  
Old February 20, 2011, 12:59 PM
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So we need Lees, Tendus, Sehwags, Pontings to do the right things. Hmm.... I think I heard these things like 3 years before from someone, who is so popular in this forum.

We've beaten no.1 South Africa with a much inexperienced team in last World Cup.

If we don't take the risk(PP3) when we have two set batsmen at the crease, then will never learn how to deal with it. Shakib needs to learn this thing. He's been doing the same mistakes over and over again. He got out playing the same shots before. If he took the PP then he wouldn't get out.
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  #55  
Old February 20, 2011, 01:08 PM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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... thought there is a gag order, not to question anything about the team.

the fans are supposed to be successfully maimed.

Looks like the attempt didn't worked.... Its all Tunisia/Egypt effect.
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  #56  
Old February 20, 2011, 01:27 PM
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Naimul_Hd Naimul_Hd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Pont
Let me repeat: the CAPTAIN decides the PP not the coaches.
Sorry for my ignorance.

I know, Captain makes all the call but does it mean that coaches have no say/opinion once game starts ? As a coach, if you watch your captain is doing something wrong, should you not inform him or give him some advice by sending 12th man ?

If captain takes PP at earlier stage then understandably coach has nothing to do. But if coach sees that captain should take PP now, then i guess, coach should give him some sort of signal to take PP. Sometimes, outsider sees things clearly than people in the middle.

Anyway, what is gone is gone. Best of luck for future matches.
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  #57  
Old February 20, 2011, 01:40 PM
abherath abherath is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Were you aware that there is no rule in the ICC Laws of the Game which state that batting Powerplay must be taken when the least capable batsman are at the crease?

Did you know that the batting powerplay is a resource for all teams and not just non-BD teams?

The Coach, we know, is a Test specialist coach and is pretty clueless about ODIs. At least about 21st century ODIs. Gavaskar's 36* may be technically sound, but its not the template one wishes to follow to figure out what to do with 170 odd deliveries in a limited overs match.

But Shakib, I thought you were different. You have disappointed me many times in the past. I thought you had a pair of steel. I always gave you the benefit of the doubt. I understand that maybe you do not like the fragrance of Ashraful, not many do, as it smells like a stench to them. But he was not in the XI to hold ten back. Why did you willingly accept to give India a batting powerplay and not keep one for yourself? The shot you got out to would have been 4 had a fielding restriction been in place. But for that you have to call for the powerplay.

Coach Siddons said the issue was resolved with Riyad and Rahim. Rahim perished 3rd ball of powerplay because he ran out of partners. Riyad was thuroughly outlcassed by Munaf. But now I think I understand. The problem was that we were scoring to many runs in the powerplays. Now I understand that the real objective is to score as few runs as possible whilst losing as many wickets as we can.

Thank you for your time.
Good writing, I mean the English and the style of writing but beyond that this is nothing. It is nothing but words borne out of frustration at suffering a loss.

You cannot take either the coach or the captain to task just because of this one loss. Both of them have produced results in the very recent past.

The Bangladeshis have now come of age. None treat them as minnows any more and that in itself is a great achievement and most of the the credit for that should go the smart young captain you have - well I say you, as I am Sri Lankan - and the coaching staff.

The Bangladeshi selectors have taken brave decisions in the recent past resulting in a team that could whitewash the Kiwis. So they too could take some credit.

Bangladesh now has some really world class players who have not only the ability but also the correct temperament. Even in a losing game, the body language , the posture and the visible confidence of players like Imrul Kayes and Junaid Siddiqui were impressive.

Tamim can walk into any national XI in the world, in my opinion. Shakib has already been recognized as the world's best all rounder in one form of the game. Bangladesh is also supposed to have the world's best spin attack.

This team will go places. If you do not do well at the CWC, that would not be the end of the world. Do watch them in the months to come. A lot of recognized teams will come a cropper at the hands of the Tigers.

So give them some breathing space. Let them put the defeat to the World's best team behind them and move on. Stand by your team and spare your smart writing for a literary forum.

Last edited by abherath; February 20, 2011 at 01:53 PM..
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  #58  
Old February 20, 2011, 01:50 PM
abherath abherath is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by munnabhai
We don't have a Yousuf Pathan, Afridi, Sehwag or Razzak, for now Ashraful will do, anyday over Naeem and Mahmudullah.
Ash is a player for the big occasion. He is no respecter of names.

Yes, he has a lot of failures still fresh out of the oven but he is likely to deliver in this probably last world cup of his.

Ash, Bash and Mash should be respected for what they have done for cricket in Bangladesh.
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  #59  
Old February 20, 2011, 02:16 PM
abherath abherath is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Pont
Please give me YOUR solution.. rather than criticise. I would LOVE TO HEAR IT. And I mean your plan, not just yesterday. So you should bear in mind everytime we take it we lose wickets. So please tell me your answer.
Great to see you step in and reply.

As a Sri Lankan, I have been observing the good work you and the other coaching staff have been doing for Bangladesh.

We would love to see you doing some work with our players in Sri Lanka.

Best of luck to you and the Tigers in the CWC 2011.
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  #60  
Old February 20, 2011, 05:32 PM
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reyme reyme is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Pont
Ok guys... we are what we are.
We are ranked 8th for a reason (and this an improvement in the last 6 months). Coaching - and development of players at all levels - is the answer.
Dear Ian, Thank you for sharing your insight. We the fans, are all very appreciative. Here are my thoughts:

The ranking should not be the mere factor to decide the outcome of a match. If we would just go by sheer ranking why even bother playing the higher ranked team, just accept the loss and dont take the field. We did beat SA and IND in the last WC with lot less quality players than now. The core players of IND, you pointed out, those players played in that game too, plus more like Dravid, Ganguly. How come we could not even make it atleast a close/competitive game this time around?

My observation was we did not have the right gameplan put together this time. It is sad when the coaches point fingers to the captain for PP and TOSS decision. The gameplan should be prepared by the coaching staff, not by the captain. Captain is out there to execute the gameplan, not invent it while actually playing and more importantly batting. If the captain was not taking the PP on time, then it was upto the coaches to send him the message. Coaching the captain to make right decison is part of coaching, so when captain make mistakes, it is the reflection of the coach himself, either he was not coached/briefed well or he is simply the wrong person to be the captain to begin with. It is the coaches who should select the right captain and then prepare him, coach him so that he becomes a wiser, sharper, well equipped captain. TOSS was a management decision and is part of the gameplan. If it was a wrong TOSS decisoon, then the responsibility lies with the people who came up with the gameplan.

In summary, no matter what your rankings are, be you are the 1st or 100th, when you are an international team, you should have your basics right to begin with. It all starts with selecting the best players at your disposal, in the right order for the right position. Then coach them as best as you could and come up with a gameplan and team selection by doing homework about your opposition. Just because we are ranked below than IND and has less experienced/quality players, does not mean that we have to be less wiser too.

We should not be making poor TOSS decisons, should not be struggling PP solution for far too long like this, should not have to blame the captain for numerous on field decisons. We have a batting coach for 4 years and we should have spcialist PP batters and finishers by now. Players will work hard, but so do the coaching staff and the selectors to bring out the best out of these players.
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  #61  
Old February 20, 2011, 05:50 PM
Equinox Equinox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Pont
Please give me YOUR solution.. rather than criticise. I would LOVE TO HEAR IT. And I mean your plan, not just yesterday. So you should bear in mind everytime we take it we lose wickets. So please tell me your answer.
How about getting players who actually bat at number 6 or 7 in domestic cricket and are natural hitters of the ball into the team instead of converting top-order batsmen into lower-order sloggers? I'd like to give you same names to research: Alok Kapali, Nasir Hossain, Shabbir Rahman, Nazmul Hossain Milon, Aftab Ahmed.
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  #62  
Old February 20, 2011, 06:20 PM
DJ Sahastra DJ Sahastra is offline
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As long as the players can get on the field and perform, there is no gameplan needed. And when players can't perform, no amount of gameplan can help. Cricket asa game is THAT simple.

As for toss decision, there was no right or wrong decision. All the criticism are an afterthought based on the outcome of the game. The last time around, Shakib had chosen to bat first and was unable to defend 290+ against the same opponent under similar circumstances.

Powerplay is still a double-edged sword. Teams have lost their way during the batting powerplays.

Hindsight is always clever.
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  #63  
Old February 20, 2011, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Pont
Ok guys... we are what we are.

We are ranked 8th for a reason (and this an improvement in the last 6 months). The PP is meant to help batting teams but in BD case it actually works against them because the batters lose wickets trying to hit out. For whatever reason, the batsmen have not found their way of coping with it.
Dear Coach,

It is most unfortunate and disheartening for a fan to be constantly reminded how lowly their team ranks in the chart. Believe you me...most descerning posters here are well aware of that little fact. YES, we are ranked 8th but we also have the No.1 Allrounder in the World. We EVEN have world's only cricketers who performs only twice a year ( more recently not-even-once-a-year). Hopefully, this is all about to change soon.

With all respect, I think, you might be taking this ranking business a little too seriously, Ian. We are 8th and WI are 9th. Does it mean a win against them automatically guaranteed...of course, not. Similarly, a defeat against a higher ranked opposition...of course, not. As you know the game has drastically changed over the last 20 years and the gap between the Traditionals and Pretenders are not so unbridgeable nowadays. The difference is becoming quite marginal. We also must look at it from this perspective. Cricket is a game of glorious uncertainty. There is nothing "written"...in cricket.

Despite its serious shortcomings, BCB has done well in hiring top experts to turn our boys into accomplished professionals. We want to see our boys excel. Yes, we have patience, too.
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  #64  
Old February 20, 2011, 07:27 PM
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Excellent reply reyme.

@DJ, so what's the point of a head coach then if no gameplan is needed esp. one of whose main job is to be a strategist?
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  #65  
Old February 20, 2011, 10:42 PM
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Coach pont,

Banglacricket doesn't allow to make a live exclusive discussion with Jamie Siddons, as your are one of the coaches of Bangladesh team, I have something to say. I am not going to ask you a question or anything...just wanna say that traditional game plan doesn't work anymore.If coaches and stuff can't come up with innovative plans and game strategies like Dave Whatmore did last time, we will be way behind. Now you may say that we have innovative plans, but where is the innovative plans? In those 4 yrs under siddons era, there is still no decent power hitting batsman.... Forget the original Mashrafe, we still can't create another Mashrafe. Shafiul and Rubel can be allrounders. If they can bowl upto 140kph then they also can be pinch hitter of the national team. It would work if jamie siddons could spend enough time on their batting before the world cup
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  #66  
Old February 20, 2011, 11:24 PM
DJ Sahastra DJ Sahastra is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeshanM
Excellent reply reyme.

@DJ, so what's the point of a head coach then if no gameplan is needed esp. one of whose main job is to be a strategist?
The Coach's job is to prepare the players and the team, physically and pyschologically. Coach is there to train. His job ends where the match begins.

Once a match is on, it is up to the captain and the players. And in cricket, especially our experience with Greg Chappel has taught us, strategy is highly over-rated. It is the performance that really matters.
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  #67  
Old February 21, 2011, 12:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Sahastra
The Coach's job is to prepare the players and the team, physically and pyschologically. Coach is there to train. His job ends where the match begins.

Once a match is on, it is up to the captain and the players. And in cricket, especially our experience with Greg Chappel has taught us, strategy is highly over-rated. It is the performance that really matters.
This is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard.
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  #68  
Old February 21, 2011, 12:48 AM
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irampool irampool is offline
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Okay, it was Shakib's decision not to take the batting PP when he and Tamim were batting. And I'm also assuming, over the last one year or so, it has always been the decision of our batters who were out there in the middle not to take the PP in a reasonable period.

So does that man, every time we failed utilizing the batting PP over the last one year, JS didn't discuss it to Shakib or any other batsmen so that he or any other players who are at the crease, don't repeat the same mistake over and over again?

This particular scenario has been happening for so long now, but no one just seems to come up with a solution! Over the last one year, we had at least 10 matches where we were 190-200 odd after 40 overs, and then ended up with 240 odd!
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  #69  
Old February 21, 2011, 02:18 AM
hbk619 hbk619 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Sahastra
The Coach's job is to prepare the players and the team, physically and pyschologically. Coach is there to train. His job ends where the match begins.

Once a match is on, it is up to the captain and the players. And in cricket, especially our experience with Greg Chappel has taught us, strategy is highly over-rated. It is the performance that really matters.
i think u r watching sports for the first time
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  #70  
Old February 21, 2011, 02:57 AM
Dilscoop Dilscoop is offline
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I sense a "I Give Up" vibe from Pont. Wonder how the team is feeling then.

Not good! Not good at all.
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  #71  
Old February 21, 2011, 02:57 AM
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Jadukor Jadukor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Sahastra
The Coach's job is to prepare the players and the team, physically and pyschologically. Coach is there to train. His job ends where the match begins.

Once a match is on, it is up to the captain and the players. And in cricket, especially our experience with Greg Chappel has taught us, strategy is highly over-rated. It is the performance that really matters.
I personally think the role of coaches vary with the Team...

in Case of India... where you have players like Sachin, Sehwag, Laxman, Dravid, Zaheer... you don't need a Coach to teach you the basics... they are hugely experienced and they know their own game very well. Because of that the Coach can spend his time working on specific problem areas of individuals and provide guidance and advice when needed... a lot of the work is probably done in analyzing strengths and weaknesses of the team and formulating proper game plans with the captain...

in case of Bangladesh... our players are simply rookies coming out of a very weak domestic setup... so a coach has to start from zero and build these cricketers up from scratch... For example Tamim, when he played the world cup in 2007 had a lot of technical issues... he would come down the track every now and then and could not rotate the strike... his legside play was weak as well... So over years Tamim's improvement is a testimony to the work done by our coach. I think JS probably has to spend majority of his time going through the basics with squad and so as a result gets to spend lesser time on game plans strategies etc...
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  #72  
Old February 21, 2011, 03:05 AM
Dilscoop Dilscoop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadukor
I think JS probably has to spend majority of his time going through the basics with squad and so as a result gets to spend lesser time on game plans strategies etc...
Not to be disrespectful towards JS, but he isn't very good at making them either. But true about the rest. That's why I've been saying, either we hire someone else to do that part of the job, and make JS the batting coach so he can spend even more time with the batters. Because no doubt JS is a top class batting coach.

(But I did not like how he tired to change guys like Aftab, Naeem etc into proper batters.)
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  #73  
Old February 21, 2011, 06:02 AM
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Naimul_Hd Naimul_Hd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Sahastra
The Coach's job is to prepare the players and the team, physically and pyschologically. Coach is there to train. His job ends where the match begins.

Once a match is on, it is up to the captain and the players. And in cricket, especially our experience with Greg Chappel has taught us, strategy is highly over-rated. It is the performance that really matters.

Mate, its not 1951. Its 2011. Wake up !!!
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  #74  
Old February 21, 2011, 10:58 AM
DJ Sahastra DJ Sahastra is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadukor
I personally think the role of coaches vary with the Team...

in Case of India... where you have players like Sachin, Sehwag, Laxman, Dravid, Zaheer... you don't need a Coach to teach you the basics... they are hugely experienced and they know their own game very well. Because of that the Coach can spend his time working on specific problem areas of individuals and provide guidance and advice when needed... a lot of the work is probably done in analyzing strengths and weaknesses of the team and formulating proper game plans with the captain...

in case of Bangladesh... our players are simply rookies coming out of a very weak domestic setup... so a coach has to start from zero and build these cricketers up from scratch... For example Tamim, when he played the world cup in 2007 had a lot of technical issues... he would come down the track every now and then and could not rotate the strike... his legside play was weak as well... So over years Tamim's improvement is a testimony to the work done by our coach. I think JS probably has to spend majority of his time going through the basics with squad and so as a result gets to spend lesser time on game plans strategies etc...
Jadukor Bhai,

Actually what you said above is 100% true, not only for BD but for every team. Coaches are there to mentor the team, help newcomers get to the next level, correct any bad habits a batsman/bowler may have caught and so on and so forth.

My point was, all that is a pre-match responsibility. Once a game gets going, a coach cannot go and tell the batsman how to bat or tell a bowler how to bowl in the right areas. The captain and the players take over.
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  #75  
Old February 21, 2011, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Sahastra
As long as the players can get on the field and perform, there is no gameplan needed. And when players can't perform, no amount of gameplan can help. Cricket asa game is THAT simple.

As for toss decision, there was no right or wrong decision. All the criticism are an afterthought based on the outcome of the game. The last time around, Shakib had chosen to bat first and was unable to defend 290+ against the same opponent under similar circumstances.

Powerplay is still a double-edged sword. Teams have lost their way during the batting powerplays.

Hindsight is always clever.
You are absolutely right.

This is the best, most intelligent post I see here.

You have said it right, in just a few words.

Once can say a lot of things in hind sight. To say it beforehand one needs to be a prophet.
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