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  #26  
Old February 19, 2011, 09:44 PM
firstlane firstlane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger444
One thing that bothered me about him though was that he was blocking deliveries with a dead bat
Seriously that annoyed the hell out of me.
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  #27  
Old February 19, 2011, 09:47 PM
firstlane firstlane is offline
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Can someone tell me what could be the possible reason behind Imrul's geting out at 33/34 most of the times? Is there a spell on him?
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  #28  
Old February 19, 2011, 10:43 PM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Pont
The PP is the captain's decision not the coach... he was out in the middle and chose NOT to take it when he was batting. We all know what happened but the captain is in play and batting at the time then it is his shout.
i wasn't 100% sure whose decision it was so i put both in the title.

but we did hear something about riyad being part of some solution. but he now has i think 20 consecutive innings with a SR of 100 or less. that simply will not get the job done in batting PP/slog overs. in contrast all of India's players barring Tendulkar scored quicker in the middle overs.

its not about beating one of the best teams in the world, its about giving ourselves, as much of a chance to win as possible.

we are still 100% with the team, and we support fully whatever XI goes out there and the coaching/support staff. but we do hope that the boys realize that CALCULATED risk-taking is a necessity.

yes, batting PP is risky and even top teams lose a wicket here and there, but you have to take it at some point. you might as well take it when your 2 BEST batsman are there and set. failure to do so is to tie one's hands behind their back BEFORE the game even begins.

and that should be unacceptable.
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  #29  
Old February 19, 2011, 10:53 PM
F6_Turbo F6_Turbo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reyme
I want coachig staff from my college team: Texas Longhorns. Yes they play football alright, but they are smart enough to make this is a winning team in no time, something which so called coach named siddons wont be able to deliver in his lifetime. This team has much more potential than remain happy with a respectable loss.
Just so long as we let them have one of the best recruiting classes every season eh....

As they say, no matter how much you polish a turd, it is still a turd.

EDIT:

Actually I have a genuine question. why is it that after more than a decade of playing regular international cricket, our batsmen are still '4 or block' type of batsmen. Why is it that we lack the ability to find the gap, and rotate the strke....there is no point in hitting a 4, if you are going to block out the next 5 deliveries.

I realize Tamim only hit 4 boundaries in his knock of 70, but I believe he also had 40+ dot balls....this simple is not good enough. Why has this not improved over time?

Last edited by F6_Turbo; February 19, 2011 at 10:59 PM..
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  #30  
Old February 19, 2011, 11:55 PM
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Sohel Sohel is offline
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I understand your mood Asaad and share the disappointment. Guys like us want to win, always believe we have a chance and when we're losing, we want to go down swinging.

Honestly though, don't you think it was our bowlers, particularly Shuhash and Nostrilamous Rex who choked and gave our batsmen no chance to go beyond 330 max? Rex was back to his old 1-or-2-boundary-balls-per-over mode and Shuhash was clearly rattled beyond recovery, unlike RBX. Nayeem and Riyad are bits-and-pieces bowlers and expecting too much out of them tells me more about our wishful thinking than what they're likely to deliver out there.

That being said, Riyad has good potential and especially when aided by pressure from the other end, can be effective wicket-taker with some surprisingly good deliveries. All of our bowlers, in my humble opinion, could have demonstrated more predatory intent, to take nothing away from Sehwag, a genuine force of nature having a great day, and Kohli, possibly the finest young batsman out there in International cricket and a future captain of India.

Batting-wise, I thought we did well. Bhimrul took it to them with sometimes streaky and other times beautiful batting while Tamim was getting bogged down. ODI 50s aren't that easy for Mr. 30s and he ran out of depth before reaching that landmark. Wasn't the first time and won't be the last.

Tamim's 70 from 86 would have been infinitely more valuable on most days, as baffling as his initial tentativeness seemed to all of us. He needs to rotate the strike and wait for the ball, as simple as that, but to Dhoni's credit, he was scouted and contained exceptionally well.

Imroze showed signs of resigning from Sid's Sissified Trio and played well before succumbing to Dhoni's excellent glove-work. His strike rotation was exemplary and shot making elegant.

Mauyna is the man, enough said.

GoBoy succumbed to the pressure of accelerating before his time, and Can't-See-DaRok, my least favorite payer in the universe other than Can't-See-Khondokar Mohammad Rajin Saleh Alam, played magnificently. He rotated the strike well and hit a clean, well-sighted over boundary. Strike-rotation, rather than stroke-making is what I want to see in our guys as long as they put half-volleys and full-tosses away.

Nayeem and Riyad now comprise Sid's Sissified Duo and I see players with significantly better potential replacing them soon unless they take a page out of Zunaed's book and desissify themselves pronto. Guys like Shubhagoto Hom, Fazle Rabbi, Shabbir Rahman Rumman, Nasir Hossain and even young Anamul Haque Bijauy are simply way better than they are, and a few others in the current team. Then again, you "nebhar" know with BCB, especially this version stunk-up with Loitta Khyatmal, "Taigar" Mama and SidVision.

We must make do with what we have and sorry bro,the Baulod cannot be an option. Abir is a much better option with both he and Imroze capable of playing further down the order. Perhaps an emotionally and physically fit Alok would've been better in light of the current batting PP situation, but there's no point in wallowing in coulda-been-shoulda-beens at this point. We have matches and a tournament to win, and if we bowl and field well, scores between 283 and 330 with the occasional 350 give us pretty good odds to do just that.

Peace & GOD bless my brotha, and keep the faith. জয় বাংলা ! ...
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Last edited by Sohel; February 20, 2011 at 12:18 AM..
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  #31  
Old February 19, 2011, 11:59 PM
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Ian Pont Ian Pont is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
i wasn't 100% sure whose decision it was so i put both in the title.

but we did hear something about riyad being part of some solution. but he now has i think 20 consecutive innings with a SR of 100 or less. that simply will not get the job done in batting PP/slog overs. in contrast all of India's players barring Tendulkar scored quicker in the middle overs.

its not about beating one of the best teams in the world, its about giving ourselves, as much of a chance to win as possible.

we are still 100% with the team, and we support fully whatever XI goes out there and the coaching/support staff. but we do hope that the boys realize that CALCULATED risk-taking is a necessity.

yes, batting PP is risky and even top teams lose a wicket here and there, but you have to take it at some point. you might as well take it when your 2 BEST batsman are there and set. failure to do so is to tie one's hands behind their back BEFORE the game even begins.

and that should be unacceptable.
Please give me YOUR solution.. rather than criticise. I would LOVE TO HEAR IT. And I mean your plan, not just yesterday. So you should bear in mind everytime we take it we lose wickets. So please tell me your answer.
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  #32  
Old February 20, 2011, 12:03 AM
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Ian Pont Ian Pont is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F6_Turbo
Just so long as we let them have one of the best recruiting classes every season eh....

As they say, no matter how much you polish a turd, it is still a turd.

EDIT:

Actually I have a genuine question. why is it that after more than a decade of playing regular international cricket, our batsmen are still '4 or block' type of batsmen. Why is it that we lack the ability to find the gap, and rotate the strke....there is no point in hitting a 4, if you are going to block out the next 5 deliveries.

I realize Tamim only hit 4 boundaries in his knock of 70, but I believe he also had 40+ dot balls....this simple is not good enough. Why has this not improved over time?
Have you ever realised why were ranked at number 9 and 8 and not number one like India? Or 2, 3 or 4 like SL, SA or Australia?

WE ARE NOT AS GOOD AS THOSE TEAMS. If we were then we would perform like them and be ranked in the top 4 like them.

That's why..

Your question should be why are we not as good as those teams. Then you will find the answer.
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  #33  
Old February 20, 2011, 12:07 AM
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Baundule Baundule is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Pont
Please give me YOUR solution.. rather than criticise. I would LOVE TO HEAR IT. And I mean your plan, not just yesterday. So you should bear in mind everytime we take it we lose wickets. So please tell me your answer.
We have to solve that wicket losing problem, otherwise we can not make proper use of the PP, which is an opportunity, not a disadvantage for the batting team.

The best time to take batting powerplay is when we have two set batsmen. The only thing they need to learn from the coaches is that play according to the merit of the delivery and the field. Power play is not blind hitting. It is just taking advantage of the fielding restriction.

Coaches should have a bit more 'real' trust on the team, not on paper, but in the field and the decisions.
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  #34  
Old February 20, 2011, 12:16 AM
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Baundule Baundule is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Pont
Have you ever realised why were ranked at number 9 and 8 and not number one like India? Or 2, 3 or 4 like SL, SA or Australia?

WE ARE NOT AS GOOD AS THOSE TEAMS. If we were then we would perform like them and be ranked in the top 4 like them.

That's why..

Your question should be why are we not as good as those teams. Then you will find the answer.
This is quite lame actually. Although as a team we lag behind India, the likes of Shakib and Tamim are world class. You say that ranking thing to Chris Gayle (a player of the #9 ranked team) and you will find the answer in no time.

To win regularly loser mentality should be changed first and that can not be done with a management having negative attitudes.
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  #35  
Old February 20, 2011, 12:16 AM
F6_Turbo F6_Turbo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Pont
Have you ever realised why were ranked at number 9 and 8 and not number one like India? Or 2, 3 or 4 like SL, SA or Australia?

WE ARE NOT AS GOOD AS THOSE TEAMS. If we were then we would perform like them and be ranked in the top 4 like them.

That's why..

Your question should be why are we not as good as those teams. Then you will find the answer.

I'm sorry, you're telling me after 15 years of regular ODI matches, the explanation for why our batsmen can't find gaps to get singles in this format, regardless of the caliber of the bowler, of the game is because we aren't as good as our opponents?

I'll take your explanation on board, and count how many singles we run against Ireland and the Netherlands...because as you say, they are ranked below us.
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  #36  
Old February 20, 2011, 12:24 AM
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Zeeshan Zeeshan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Pont
Have you ever realised why were ranked at number 9 and 8 and not number one like India? Or 2, 3 or 4 like SL, SA or Australia?

WE ARE NOT AS GOOD AS THOSE TEAMS. If we were then we would perform like them and be ranked in the top 4 like them.

That's why..

Your question should be why are we not as good as those teams. Then you will find the answer.
Ian,

Would you agree it's debilitating to the team to keep reinforcing the idea we are not good as others? Imho, by ranking we may be in lower rung, but if ranking decided everything why bother to play a game?

Well I am curious why we are not good as those teams?
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  #37  
Old February 20, 2011, 01:11 AM
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Ian Pont Ian Pont is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baundule
We have to solve that wicket losing problem, otherwise we can not make proper use of the PP, which is an opportunity, not a disadvantage for the batting team.

The best time to take batting powerplay is when we have two set batsmen. The only thing they need to learn from the coaches is that play according to the merit of the delivery and the field. Power play is not blind hitting. It is just taking advantage of the fielding restriction.

Coaches should have a bit more 'real' trust on the team, not on paper, but in the field and the decisions.
Let me repeat: the CAPTAIN decides the PP not the coaches.

Secondly, when you take the PP, the opposition bring back their best two bowlers. If we lose wickets THEN (early) we still have many, many overs to go after the PP with low order batsmen trying to bat out 50 overs and not scoring.

Think long and hard about your answer please...
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  #38  
Old February 20, 2011, 01:16 AM
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Ian Pont Ian Pont is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeshanM
Ian,

Would you agree it's debilitating to the team to keep reinforcing the idea we are not good as others? Imho, by ranking we may be in lower rung, but if ranking decided everything why bother to play a game?

Well I am curious why we are not good as those teams?
Ok... Australia has Lee, Ponting, Tait, Johnson, Clarke, Hussey, etc etc etc.. India sehwag, tendulkar, harbajhan, kohli, yuvraj, dhoni etc etc etc.. do I need to go naming all the world class players in the top 4 teams?

It is REALITY and a fact that we do not have their players. That's why they are above us and why they beat us. The table doesn't lie. If you find that 'debilitating' don't look at it. But I am simply trying to explain why we do not beat these teams regularly, if at all.

Coaching, coaching and coaching is the answer to being a better team of course..
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  #39  
Old February 20, 2011, 01:18 AM
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Ian Pont Ian Pont is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F6_Turbo
I'm sorry, you're telling me after 15 years of regular ODI matches, the explanation for why our batsmen can't find gaps to get singles in this format, regardless of the caliber of the bowler, of the game is because we aren't as good as our opponents?

I'll take your explanation on board, and count how many singles we run against Ireland and the Netherlands...because as you say, they are ranked below us.
We scored LOADS of singles last night! What game did YOU watch?
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  #40  
Old February 20, 2011, 01:39 AM
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Naimul_Hd Naimul_Hd is offline
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C'mon....one tough match cant shake our dreams and hopes. Mistakes do happen. I hope our coaching staffs had pointed out these things and make sure they do not repeat again in coming matches.

To Ian...please have some jokes around with our boys to make them free and tension free. Watch movies/comedy shows in spare time with them if you can. We just want them to play as natural and stress free as they can.

Good Luck. We are with you regardless of result.
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  #41  
Old February 20, 2011, 01:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Pont
Let me repeat: the CAPTAIN decides the PP not the coaches.

Secondly, when you take the PP, the opposition bring back their best two bowlers. If we lose wickets THEN (early) we still have many, many overs to go after the PP with low order batsmen trying to bat out 50 overs and not scoring.

Think long and hard about your answer please...
Oppositions using up their 'best' bowlers early also means they will have to use relatively worse bowlers at the end. This 'early' is actually not so early. The first 15 overs are usually the power play overs anyway. Then it takes another 15/20 middle overs to get a set pair of basmen. So, we are talking about some time after 35 overs. You do not have too many overs left anyway. And the new ball after 34 overs gives an opportunity to score quickly.

Many a times, the score in the last 10 overs make the difference between a win and a loss. Think of a scenario when we take the PP for overs 41-45 with even 5/6 wickets down. The last 5 overs are going to be quick scoring anyway. That makes a total of 10 quick scoring overs at the death. If we lose 1/2 wickets in the power play, survival is still not a hard task, at least the new batsman gets an opportunity to get settled and go for runs afterwards. But if it works in our favor, the set batsmen can go to the last overs with much more confidence. It can make a difference of at least 20/30 runs. The risk of losing wickets is even higher in the last 5 overs, because you are surely facing the best bowlers and once you get out the new batsman does not get any chance to get set. Even Pollards and Pathans can not hit sixes straightaway.

Just to clarify, I am not blaming any one. We spend our time talking here and watching cricket only because we love the game, we love the team. If Shakib is doing mistakes, the management should make him aware of it.
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  #42  
Old February 20, 2011, 01:50 AM
F6_Turbo F6_Turbo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Pont
We scored LOADS of singles last night! What game did YOU watch?
The match where

4nd over - 4 dot balls
6th over - 4 dot balls
7th over - 5 dot balls
8th over - 4 dot balls
9th over - 5 dot balls
12th over - 4 dot balls
15th over - 4 dot balls
22nd over - 4 dot balls
...

....
In a lot of those overs, we hit a boundary and then did absolute nothing the rest of the over. I am also aware that in the early overs, with the field being in, finding singles isn't the easiest job in the world...but this is a regular occurrence with the national team. I have no problem with you pointing out the difference in class, and India obviously didn't have mugs bowling for them(Zaheer was excellent, and Munaf was hard to get away) , but surely our mental approach has to be called into question.

Top class bowlers will not give offer up freebies every other delivery, so we have to constantly look for runs...the point of my question was, do our batsmen know how to do this, if yes, why didn't they, and if not, why?

I'll give you an example, Junaid hit the 6 off the front foot, and the rest of that over, he tried 2 expansive shots, and three straight bats back to the bowler....all leading to zero runs scored.

Anyways....Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions...I've never gone overboard with praise or criticisms regarding the national team, and last night did nothing to change that stance. We are a work in progress, so I'll continue to look out for incremental improvements in our game.

Best of luck to you and the boys.

*I realize you're the bowling coach, and I'm asking about the batting...so thanks for indulging me.
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  #43  
Old February 20, 2011, 02:10 AM
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cricman cricman is offline
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I don't think the middle overs were a problem, if you use the 30 over rule we were on pace to score 325-330

Just a slight critique on the batting is that we let Yuvraj and Yusuf bowl about 12 overs without the intent of punishing them. It's one thing to milk the ones of Munaf and Singh but if you don't try to Rattle a part time bowler for them to make them try something different than you give the opposition the advantage. Those two aren't as well equipped to handle adversity as the main bowlers are.

Quote:
Secondly, when you take the PP, the opposition bring back their best two bowlers. If we lose wickets THEN (early) we still have many, many overs to go after the PP with low order batsmen trying to bat out 50 overs and not scoring.

Think long and hard about your answer please...
This is a moot point since it's Captain call as you say

Were not advocating to use the PP in the 21st over but to use it when it makes the most logical sense. If we had been correctly utilizing the 3rd PP since it's inception, we wouldn't have this conversation in the 1st place. There wouldn't be discussion in articles and television commentators talking about this inept PP.

The Whole point of the powerplay is to give an Advantage to the Batsman, The best bowlers in the world hate bowling in those situations. A Powerplay can singlehandingly sway the momentum of a match one way or the other. Not utilizing it properly when other teams have been taking matches away from is just poor.

Our Lower Order Batsmen and Scoring should never be used in the same sentence.

Best of Luck in the rest Tournament, We back you guys no matter what. Just give us something to cheer about, It's a big moment in our Cricket.
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  #44  
Old February 20, 2011, 02:42 AM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Pont
Please give me YOUR solution.. rather than criticise. I would LOVE TO HEAR IT. And I mean your plan, not just yesterday. So you should bear in mind everytime we take it we lose wickets. So please tell me your answer.
Answer is simple: if we wouldn't take 10 men onto the field to play against XI, i see no reason why we should volunteer to accept 15 overs of PP when our opposition will 9 times out of 10 (and i'm being generous here) take 20 overs.

S Rajesh put up a good piece which showed that we are the worst of the 10 test nations when it comes to PPs. India is 2nd worst in bowling economy rate, but makes up with batting, but they still have a negative net run rate in the last 10 overs. Even Zimababwe has a higher run rate towards the end of ODI innings than we do.

I'm not asking why our players aren't better than the Indian counterparts, and how come we didn't win yesterday.

I'm asking (Shakib) why he chose to place an added restriction on ourselves.

I fully understand that first 2 balls of the PP could see the dismissals of Tamim and Shakib and we'd be doing this but, that was even given the chance to occur. We don't expect to flip a coin and get 20 consecutive heads or tails, but for some reason we expect that Riyad will be the "solution" after 20 consecutive innings where he was unable to accelerate.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine...ry/497612.html

Its not a matter of criticizing this bowler or that fielder. Its a matter of me as a fan trying to figure out what Shakib's intention was, and why he thought that. If its none of my business, OK, I accept that, but I am curious.

**************

I don't want to sound like I know what I'm doing and I have all the answers. But I do believe that our run rate after 50 overs should be equal to or greater than our run rate after 40 overs, more so when we have wickets in hand. this hasn't happened.

We all want the boys to be successful, and we support them full on. There's no booing during game time. We've made some strides. Just a few months ago we made a mockery of cricket by scoring 240-6 while chasing 380 against Pakistan. Today we made far better effort of making a game of it, but its still not 100%.

I just want to see that 100% effort, just like you do, Coach.
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  #45  
Old February 20, 2011, 02:54 AM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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just to clarify:

I am not interested in results per se (although that is the ultimate objective, obviously)...right now, as a developing team beginning to form an identity (which we did not have in 2007), i'm interested in the process. Its the "outside the box" thinking that will please me, no matter how disasterous it might in the short run.

Perfect example is the toss decision. Coach, you were not here a year ago, but at that time we played a D/N against India at Mirpur, and the day after complaining about dew, Shakib won the toss and inexplicably chose to bat first citing "if India bats first they'll score 350".

Yesterday, Shakib won the toss and chose to field. I think this was the right call. We just couldn't implement it, and thats fine. Even the great Aussies lost games, they weren't perfect. Who are we to expect perfection?

That was a good move. But the hesitency to take the PP was made all the more ironic and inexplicable because both Shakib and Tamim got out with aerial shots trying to get boundaries, and at least Shakib's dismissal could have been avoided had a PP been taken.
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  #46  
Old February 20, 2011, 03:13 AM
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We badly need a hitter, a left arm steady seamer, and pace bowling alrounder...the main problem is sid is'nt focusing on the weakness..Under siddons coaching we did really bad on two t20 world cups...i m doubtful we'll reach the quarter...our selectors our coaches don't know how to gamble...but if we make the quarter then only bcoz of shakib..no one else..sid a good batting coach but totally childish as head coaching role..i strongly blieve if Faruk, athar selector panel come back & whatmore is the coach this players can rule everything...but sid has failed.

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  #47  
Old February 20, 2011, 03:17 AM
fuadomar fuadomar is offline
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My suggestion for the next matches based on yesterday's one:

1. Instruct Imrul and Junaed to free their arms in the first 15 and suggest tamim to play a long innings like yesterday's game.
2. Exclude either naeem or riad and bring back a bowler (my choice is nazmul) or atleast a genuine batsman like SN or Ash.
3. Take the 3rd batting powerplay in 16-20 overs because the players at the crease can maintain the momentum. Most of the team takes it at 46-50 but it does not work for us at all, so we need not to follow them.
4. Why everyone is criticizing Rock? Look at his avg., strike rate and them comment. To me he seems to the most consistent performer.
5. I don't know, where and in place of which player, but Ash MUST play. We need to win 3 out of next 5 and Ash himself has the potential to win at-least 1 out of these 5 himself. If that does not happen, then it is our sheer bad luck.
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  #48  
Old February 20, 2011, 05:28 AM
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Ian Pont Ian Pont is offline
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Dhaka Gladiators Head Coach
 
Join Date: February 1, 2011
Posts: 1,377

Ok guys... we are what we are.

We are ranked 8th for a reason (and this an improvement in the last 6 months). The PP is meant to help batting teams but in BD case it actually works against them because the batters lose wickets trying to hit out. For whatever reason, the batsmen have not found their way of coping with it.

I don't have the answers. I am merely saying we don't appear to have the batters to deal with it at this stage. It's so so easy for us all to scratch our heads and wonder why this cannot be worked out. But there has been no solution for a long time. If we had natural hitters to come in at this time then we never have to discuss this. But PP does not stop us from winning matches! We beat NZ 4-0.

Credit to India for being world's number one and professional in their batting. Maybe one day we can dream of being as good as them - but we need players as good as them to be that good. We are trying hard to improve fast. Signs are there. I guess you will all have to wait and hope, like Sri Lankan fans had to wait and hope.

Coaching - and development of players at all levels - is the answer.
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  #49  
Old February 20, 2011, 05:46 AM
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Jadukor Jadukor is offline
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Join Date: October 17, 2010
Favorite Player: Shakib, Brian Lara
Posts: 13,916

The recent South Africa vs India series showed that the Batting Power Play can be a double edged sword... sometimes Batting team can score 40 runs in 5 overs without losing wickets and sometimes 2-3 wickets can quickly fall as well... the risks are obviously there...but that doesn't stop any other teams from taking risk of utilizing the PP at the right moment... which other team in the world has this fixed plan that no matter what we will take the power play in the last 5 overs besides bangladesh? The longer we don't try to get used to it...the further we are falling behind... if we don't try to take the powerplay when the set batsman are there/momentum is with us... then we will NEVER learn how to use it...
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  #50  
Old February 20, 2011, 05:52 AM
zainab zainab is offline
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Join Date: August 16, 2007
Location: Canada
Favorite Player: Ash,Tamim, Rahim,Sakib
Posts: 4,650

Hello Coach,

All my friends here in Canada who are not Bangladeshis, but West Indian, thought that the boys did fairly well, they commented that in the past they woulf have crumbled for between 200 and 250 runs, but they tried here. could have easily reached 300 runs but was not aggressive enough in the batting, No 7 to No 11 batsmen were failures, so the top made the runs which is good. There is room for greater improvement and hope we see it as the competition progresses. Hope theyknow that the match against Ireland is very imprtant, also they have a chance against Nethrlands, thse two teams beat them last year in England. Also beating WI is a great possibility, England and SA will not be easy, they have good bowlers and batters.
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