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Forget Cricket Talk about anything [within Board Rules, of course :) ]

View Poll Results: What would you do if your children announced to you they were gay?
Nothing, love is multifaceted. 3 25.00%
Educate why it is not recommended to be gay. 3 25.00%
I won't have children 1 8.33%
Beat them. 5 41.67%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

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  #76  
Old October 17, 2017, 01:01 PM
Yankees Yankees is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportingBD
Do you mean to say stay quite/silent? That would be against the belief/faith etc.
Why? Because you did not listen to what God told you in regards to this. Hence, if you lived amongst that community/place, and you were struck by that punishment, you would be considered the same like them. Therefore, how can you complain against God? That he was unfair? When it was you who decided to mind your own business? By not caring about what your duty was as a believer? What God law is about this?

I don’t know if this example sounds logical.

Assume, my friend committed a crime. I was with him. Let’s say, he killed someone. If I do not stop him, stay quite, do not report to the authority, am I punishable by law?
I think the answer would be yes? Because the murder is a crime and I didn’t do anything? Even though I saw what he did? But I would still be punished? Why?

The same applies here. The Gay thing is a sin in Islam, and it has its law. If I stay quite amongst that community, without warning them, leaving that place etc, would God punish me? I think the answer here would be yes? As I knew the law but decided to stay quite. As I knew what I had to do, but decided I won’t do them.

This issue has a lot to do with peoples faith and belief. I think we should respect that.
If you truly believe this, then why are you in the UK? Europe is the gayest-friendly place on the planet. Not to mention all the other haram consumption of alcohol, drugs, bacon, banks with interest rates.

Why do you draw the line on homosexuality but the rest is okay? Why don't you move if you truly believe what you wrote above? Seems hypocritical.
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  #77  
Old October 17, 2017, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankees
If you truly believe this, then why are you in the UK? Europe is the gayest-friendly place on the planet. Not to mention all the other haram consumption of alcohol, drugs, bacon, banks with interest rates.

Why do you draw the line on homosexuality but the rest is okay? Why don't you move if you truly believe what you wrote above? Seems hypocritical.
I live in a community where what you have stated is not too common. I mentioned about the community, not the country. My initial post mentions about community and place, not country as a whole. I am very lucky to be honest. The are different level of sins. Homosexuality falls in the major sin category. I have nothing against them, it's more about my belief and faith.
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  #78  
Old October 17, 2017, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportingBD
I live in a community where what you have stated is not too common. I mentioned about the community, not the country. My initial post mentions about community and place, not country as a whole. I am very lucky to be honest. The are different level of sins. Homosexuality falls in the major sin category. I have nothing against them, it's more about my belief and faith.
So your community doesn't have banks? Your community members don't have mortgages on their homes?

Just FYI everyone, interests (speculation) is haram. But I'm willing to bet most of you have a bank account and mortgage. So when it benefits you, then it's ok? But if it doesn't, then you get to be all pious.
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  #79  
Old October 17, 2017, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportingBD
I live in a community where what you have stated is not too common. I mentioned about the community, not the country. My initial post mentions about community and place, not country as a whole. I am very lucky to be honest. The are different level of sins. Homosexuality falls in the major sin category. I have nothing against them, it's more about my belief and faith.
I think you have made your points clear. You try to be the best as you can. I don’t think you need to clarify yourself any further
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  #80  
Old October 17, 2017, 01:23 PM
tonmoy.dhaka tonmoy.dhaka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mufi_02
not even close. what African-Americans faced in US could not be compared to anything else.

they had their culture, custom, language, and entire identity robbed from them. while in US, they saw their parents being a slave, while a being a slave themselves as well, and knowing their child (which you are allowed coz it will only mean more slaves) will be slaves as well. just imagine yourself in that situation. post civil war, the jim crow era wasn't necessarily better either.

I acknowledge gay discrimination. but it is more of a personal struggle rather than a systemic discrimination that affects all aspects of your family (parents, kids) that the African-Americans went through.

We should empathize with gay struggle but we should not be hyperbolic coz then it loses credibility.
I was not actually referring to the times of Rev Martin Luther King and not prior or just post civil war.
I was not born at the time and I would be happy to be wrong with my assessment. My aim was never to over-emphasize and make it sound worse than it is.

That being said, in our society, if you come out of the closet than chances are that your family would disown you. You would be barred from places of worship (if you are lucky) and if you speak up for your right, you would be murdered. Your life will constantly be in danger.
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  #81  
Old October 17, 2017, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankees
So your community doesn't have banks? Your community members don't have mortgages on their homes?

Just FYI everyone, interests (speculation) is haram. But I'm willing to bet most of you have a bank account and mortgage. So when it benefits you, then it's ok? But if it doesn't, then you get to be all pious.
My family members, cousins at the year end send the interest money to charity. A lot of Muslim's here in UK are doing this. It has improved a lot. The issue here is lack of awareness. The community is doing a pretty good job here. The mortgage issue was really big couple of years ago, but now it's improved. Not many people these days are taking mortgages, the community I live in. But I still think this is a big issue and over time, it will improve. There is always awareness thing that is happening where I live, which is really good. There are problems, but people are working on them. To bring awareness of what is right/wrong according to our belief and faith etc, it's a good start. But, do remember, we respect everyone in the community irrespective of what religion/culture etc they come from.
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  #82  
Old October 17, 2017, 01:28 PM
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ok on the topic itself -- I think this is a relevant and timely question. But I do not have any children yet and so I don't know how I will react.

is it choice or genetics?

There is no way to scientifically prove this. Unless genetic science identifies a certain gene and its trigger and primer. I am straight not by choice. I am straight and always had attraction for women. I never questioned myself why and how. It just naturally occurred to me as I reached puberty that I am attracted to woman. So I think being gay is similar to that. But I can't speak for them.

this brings us to the next point..

does natural inclination means it is right?

human beings are naturally inclined to many things. even on things that are sexual in nature, there is wide variety of kinks/fetishes or personal preferences. some people are aroused through sadistic/dominatrix styles. some are into couples and many more that I can't list due to PG restriction here. note that they are all between consenting adults. so is polygamy. on non sexual, a lot of human behaviors are also dictated by genes. so just because something is natural does not mean it is acceptable. I am not saying being gay isn't acceptable. just stating being natural doesn't equate to acceptable.

so what do I believe?

on a personal level, I do not discriminate against gay people. In fact, through my work, I volunteered and signed up against my local city mandate which allows businesses to refuse service to gay people. I was disturbed. Because I do not believe they should be discriminated because of their personal lives or whom they love.

with that being said, I do not agree with its practice. This is based on my personal faith.

so how do I reconcile the two?

we are all flawed. none of us are perfect. in my faith, this act is not allowed. but so isn't lying, cheating, corruption, taking advantage of others and so many other things. I am not the one to judge. if they are good person with a good heart in the eyes of Allah they who am I to judge them? I know plenty of people who prays and has marks on their forehead but still takes bribes and doesn't lost an opportunity to rob others.

sorry I had to write all that.

I won't escape gay community coz in the fear of crosshair of God. There are gays everywhere. If one need to escape "immoral acts" we should be more concerned about hypocrites, liars, murderers, cheaters in our society rather who loves whom.

in the end, I hope I will not be termed as a bigot and backward person just because I do not agree with the act. just like two consenting adults have the right to love who they want, so should some of us to not agree with the act.
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  #83  
Old October 17, 2017, 01:35 PM
tonmoy.dhaka tonmoy.dhaka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportingBD
But, do remember, we respect everyone in the community irrespective of what religion/culture etc they come from.
Sorry but you don't.
You live as a separate society with in a society.
You failed to integrate with the British culture. I am sure you do not interact with Jewish people in your broader society, and your idea of "staying 1000 feet away for Gays" says a lot about your respect for people with a different sexual orientation.
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  #84  
Old October 17, 2017, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonmoy.dhaka
I was not actually referring to the times of Rev Martin Luther King and not prior or just post civil war.
I was not born at the time and I would be happy to be wrong with my assessment. My aim was never to over-emphasize and make it sound worse than it is.

That being said, in our society, if you come out of the closet than chances are that your family would disown you. You would be barred from places of worship (if you are lucky) and if you speak up for your right, you would be murdered. Your life will constantly be in danger.
noted.

on paragraph 2, bro our society is deeply bigoted. my female cousin was disowned by my family coz she fell in love with my home tutor. he wasn't deemed worthy enough. only after 15 years and 2 kids, my family accepted her and it was only when her brother became sick with a terminal illness and wanted to see her.

there is absolutely no doubt that gay people suffers discrimination. in our society, many are not even aware that someone can be gay. I was having a casual conversation with my mother once and mentioned gay people. she said "do you mean hijra". I said no mom I mean "shomokami". She was confused and I obviously didn't get into the details of it coz it is super awkward with parents. But I realized it is alien concept to her.

people are always afraid and skeptical of things that are unknown to them. I didn't get any gay people until college. And never had a close friendship until my first job where my boss (who became sort of my mentor later on) was gay. so my idea and perception evolved through interaction.
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  #85  
Old October 17, 2017, 01:44 PM
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Great!
After being in this thread for too long, now I have all the Gay Dating Sites shwoing up on my screen as google ads.
That was not needed.
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  #86  
Old October 17, 2017, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonmoy.dhaka
Sorry but you don't.
You live as a separate society with in a society.
You failed to integrate with the British culture. I am sure you do not interact with Jewish people in your broader society, and your idea of "staying 1000 feet away for Gays" says a lot about your respect for people with a different sexual orientation.
I work with a Gay person, who is the Company COO. One of the best guy in the company, we get along very well. Very helpful, very smart and too talented. He is an American that came to UK, has never returned back to USA. I think it has something to do with this Gay issue. There is this Jewish lady in our work place, amazing. We don't communicate often, as she is working on a different team. But when we have time, we always communicate. She is also an American. One of the kindest person I have met. Even though, I live in a majority Muslim community, most of my friends are British, English.
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  #87  
Old October 17, 2017, 01:48 PM
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I don't like mainstreaming homosexuality.
Like in many tv shows, music videos, movies having gay charecter seem to hv become a trend and mainstreaming gay-ness is not the right thing as it could brainwash kids/teens.
Just my personal opinion.
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  #88  
Old October 17, 2017, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bujhee kom
Great!
After being in this thread for too long, now I have all the Gay Dating Sites shwoing up on my screen as google ads.
That was not needed.
bhalo hoise
Khushi hoisi
Uchit shikkha hoisey
😁
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  #89  
Old October 17, 2017, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mufi_02
ok on the topic itself -- I think this is a relevant and timely question. But I do not have any children yet and so I don't know how I will react.

is it choice or genetics?

There is no way to scientifically prove this. Unless genetic science identifies a certain gene and its trigger and primer. I am straight not by choice. I am straight and always had attraction for women. I never questioned myself why and how. It just naturally occurred to me as I reached puberty that I am attracted to woman. So I think being gay is similar to that. But I can't speak for them.

this brings us to the next point..

does natural inclination means it is right?

human beings are naturally inclined to many things. even on things that are sexual in nature, there is wide variety of kinks/fetishes or personal preferences. some people are aroused through sadistic/dominatrix styles. some are into couples and many more that I can't list due to PG restriction here. note that they are all between consenting adults. so is polygamy. on non sexual, a lot of human behaviors are also dictated by genes. so just because something is natural does not mean it is acceptable. I am not saying being gay isn't acceptable. just stating being natural doesn't equate to acceptable.

so what do I believe?

on a personal level, I do not discriminate against gay people. In fact, through my work, I volunteered and signed up against my local city mandate which allows businesses to refuse service to gay people. I was disturbed. Because I do not believe they should be discriminated because of their personal lives or whom they love.

with that being said, I do not agree with its practice. This is based on my personal faith.

so how do I reconcile the two?

we are all flawed. none of us are perfect. in my faith, this act is not allowed. but so isn't lying, cheating, corruption, taking advantage of others and so many other things. I am not the one to judge. if they are good person with a good heart in the eyes of Allah they who am I to judge them? I know plenty of people who prays and has marks on their forehead but still takes bribes and doesn't lost an opportunity to rob others.

sorry I had to write all that.

I won't escape gay community coz in the fear of crosshair of God. There are gays everywhere. If one need to escape "immoral acts" we should be more concerned about hypocrites, liars, murderers, cheaters in our society rather who loves whom.

in the end, I hope I will not be termed as a bigot and backward person just because I do not agree with the act. just like two consenting adults have the right to love who they want, so should some of us to not agree with the act.
Just the way I feel..Wonderfully written Mufi.

Just do not understand why we have to flee in fear of God's wrath. We should not stay in foreign land then because gays are everywhere. Where do we go then? Back to Bangladesh? I can tell you this. There are many gay people in BD too. We just do not know about them because they are too afraid to come out of the closet and face social embargo. And we all know about those DhormoPran bokolom lunatics who are lurking around and will instantly cut off limbs without any hesitation once they do decide to come out. They are always in fear of getting labelled out.

I echo what brother Jadukor has said. Mind my own business and leave in peace. Oi betar cholon beka, oi beta arek betar shathe jay eshob na bhebe why not worry about us. Did we pray Fajr today? Did we pay zakat, did we feed someone today, Did we say nice things to our parents, Were we faithful to our wives, kind to our kids, neighbors. Was I a good human being today? We should worry about these first to be honest. And I am sure God's wrath will come to you if you are not a good human being. So be a good human first. And no..Hating a gay person or escaping a gay community does not make you a good human.

Having said all these, I do not know what I would do if my kids turn out to be gay. That would have been the ultimate hardship that I would have to go thru. Ya Allah, give me sabr and save me from hating anyone
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  #90  
Old October 17, 2017, 02:09 PM
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bujhee kom bujhee kom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bujhee kom
Great!
After being in this thread for too long, now I have all the Gay Dating Sites shwoing up on my screen as google ads.
That was not needed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by simon
bhalo hoise
Khushi hoisi
Uchit shikkha hoisey
😁
Perfect...Now I have 'Date a Beautiful Muslima' with hijab on google ads above and 'Best Gay Dating Sites' ads apprearing below the thread.
Kone dikey takabo ba jabo bujhey otha mushkil.
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  #91  
Old October 17, 2017, 02:13 PM
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  #92  
Old October 17, 2017, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roman
Just the way I feel..Wonderfully written Mufi.

... Where do we go then? Back to Bangladesh? I can tell you this. There are many gay people in BD too.

...
Yes, Roman...Ei Satgaiya fua-der kothai dhoro na keno...
Let's just talk about Chittagong Bondor Shoshor...
Satgaiya fua - Tara kheley Jouben-er Jua, ari baap-re baap...Khub Shabdaan!
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  #93  
Old October 17, 2017, 02:25 PM
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Dear Tonmoy and dear Yankees,

About my dear SportingBD, I can say a few things. Both of you must have noticed and observed that Sporting is very humble and sincere in expressing his honest thoughts. That itself is an incredibly beautiful thing. I understand and know where Sporting is coming from - he is a man of faith and his moral values are based on those. I know one thing - SportingBD does not mean to hurt anyone or spread hate. He does not have that in him.
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  #94  
Old October 17, 2017, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bujhee kom
Dear Tonmoy and dear Yankees,

About my dear SportingBD, I can say a few things. Both of you must have noticed and observed that Sporting is very humble and sincere in expressing his honest thoughts. That itself is an incredibly beautiful thing. I understand and know where Sporting is coming from - he is a man of faith and his moral values are based on those. I know one thing - SportingBD does not mean to hurt anyone or spread hate. He does not have that in him.
Thank you. I hope no one takes my opinion as spreading hate or anything.
I just put forward my belief about this issue, and how I feel about it.
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  #95  
Old October 17, 2017, 05:27 PM
brockley brockley is offline
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Its hard.
I have had gay and lesbian friends,some religious.
Theology is a hard thing.
Do you pick and take what you want from religion.
I want ppl to know christ,and thats anyone from any background I am not fussy.
But equally understand gay and lesbian ppl are their and they have needs.

I am not talking about the acctivists,I treat them the same as I do leftists and right extremeties.
I believe I am a fundamentalist and believe in the fundamentals of my belief,but believe ppl are ppl.
Gay and Lesbian ppl are just like you and me,want a house,a car,a partner,marriage,don't want 2 pat tax etc.
So its a difficult 1 from the perspective of 1 who has a faith.
But that said I am no perfect.
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  #96  
Old October 17, 2017, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mufi_02
noted.

, bro our society is deeply bigoted. my female cousin was disowned by my family coz she fell in love with my home tutor. he wasn't deemed worthy enough. only after 15 years and 2 kids, my family accepted her and it was only when her brother became sick with a terminal illness and wanted to see her.

.
I empathize with your khala/uncle . While I am glad the relationship worked out ..this was a breach of trust ...

A home tutor should not fall in love / reciprocate any of these feelings ..

If my guess is your girl cousin was a teenager at that time I would have tried my best to get the tutor in jail for breach of the trust ..

As a father your uncle allowed a guy to come to his house to teach his young daughter academics so she can pursue a career ..stand up for herself and experience a world that has much to offer .....

Perhaps they took the wrong approach but the betrayal caused is difficult to forget ... accepting the daughter is easy ...but having that M=;#:; =/ tutor in his presence would be unbearable ..

My two cents ...

There is no such a thing as true love ...her life would have been perhaps Mich better of that guy didn't ruin it ...

Do not support nonsense .. end does not justify the means ... (appropriate quote ) ...

This is a serious violation what the tutor have done ..... I think your uncle was LENIENT ... if she was a teen ..she has zero Say in this matter .... that guy deserves some severe beating tbh
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  #97  
Old October 17, 2017, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iDumb
I empathize with your khala/uncle . While I am glad the relationship worked out ..this was a breach of trust ...

A home tutor should not fall in love / reciprocate any of these feelings ..

If my guess is your girl cousin was a teenager at that time I would have tried my best to get the tutor on jail for breach of the trust ..

As a father your uncle allowed a guy to come to his house to teach his young daughter academics so she can pursue a career ..stand up for herself and experience a world that has much to offer .....

Perhaps they took the wrong approach but the betrayal caused is difficult to forget ... accepting the daughter is easy ...but having that M=;#:; =/ tutor in his presence would be unbearable ..

My two cents ...

There is no such a thing as true love ...her life would have been perhaps Mich better of that guy didn't ruin it ...
Agreed.
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  #98  
Old October 17, 2017, 08:42 PM
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Ok i read your quote.. u said "my tutor " .. I guess he wasn't her tutor ....
Still if I was the dad my reaction would be the same ... he is not worthy just yet
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  #99  
Old October 18, 2017, 11:19 AM
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Some of you guys sound like God is going to smite your neighborhood Sodom/Gomorrah style because there are gays lol
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