How successful are you?

[iDumb]

/Also some of the benefits these ppl provide are interest free loan for housing, sign on bonus etc etc.

Even I get emails from recruiter (non tech field) time to time and the benefits they lay out from that area-- 200K sign on bonus (yes that's right 200). Interest free house loans 30 year mortgage. and then your top notch salary and benefits. You will not see these data from your labor stats. The right candidate get these. And there are many many positions like that... not one CEO (they are in million category) - so I think when yankees wrote his post -he wrote it from lack of knowledge. that's the point.!

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by Rifat
Disclaimer: my post may offend certain people.

I don't know why it would offend anyone.

Rifat, I like your post. I like the way how you wrote the thinking needs to evolve and should be in relations to everything else and money isn't everythign. All true.

But I fail to see how your post is relevant to making what is your worth. Problems in life that will drag you down will be there whether you make 300 dollars a month or 3 million a month.

Ppl always assume making higher money creates problems in life--- this is a very wrong assumption. It is actually the opposite. Money will make many problems in life will go away. And not all who makes money do not spend time with family.

Everything in life is important. Ppl talk about health. Rich ppl are healthier because they can afford to eat the best food, have time to go to work out and not worry about many things in life to keep their mental health is check A bad disease or accident can strike anyone regardless of money but i fail to see how having more money is a problem that ppl always bring up this and that...

And you should not compare your self to rest of the destitute world where malnutrition is a problem. You want to establish yourself to the point where you can actually help that population instead of worry about your own next housing and meal. i hope that makes sense.

[Rifat]

Originally Posted by iDumb
/Also some of the benefits these ppl provide are interest free loan for housing, sign on bonus etc etc.

Even I get emails from recruiter (non tech field) time to time and the benefits they lay out from that area-- 200K sign on bonus (yes that's right 200). Interest free house loans 30 year mortgage. and then your top notch salary and benefits. You will not see these data from your labor stats. The right candidate get these. And there are many many positions like that... not one CEO (they are in million category) - so I think when yankees wrote his post -he wrote it from lack of knowledge. that's the point.!

Dude, that is a sweet offer. I would have gone for it. my biggest concern is that i have family and friends so I am stuck to a location but other than that, it is hard to say no to an offer like that.

[Jadukor]

Originally Posted by iDumb
Because they do not reflect what is being paid by these tech companies to their top programmers. Mean wage means nothing.. neither does median. Point is you don't have to become CEO, you can make a lot of money just by being a top notch programmer in these tech companies. Actual wages many get are hard to deduce from online because there are so much wide variations. It's good yardstick for your joe schmoe looking for a job but if you are in demand you would be selling yourself short if you go by those.

Look at this recent article.

http://www.businessinsider.com/tech-...-prices-2018-2


So one of those Faang employees they are writing if they want to live near their work site , they have to shell out 30 percent of their pretax income for average housing whose mortage is on average 5200.

that comes out to be ~17000 usd a month or >200K a year. We are talking about average here and simply salary. So there are many that are getting stocks options, and much much higher pay. Back in the days, it was the management, ceos and all the other bullshit ppl getting money but now these companies pay a lot to the right employees.

these are not assumptions.. logical deductions.. and knowledge of the field. Not simply just from labor data which are not always in line with reality.


same article in yahoo.. if they give you ad block problem:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/silic...150000626.html

just came out right time for my post

The BLS data is much more reliable than your assumptions based on your rich and obviously skilled neighborhood friends. BLS is the main agency that provide all the data to congress on labor economics and statistics. They do surveys on a sample of 1.2 million companies.

Top tech companies paying high amounts to their programmers isnt news. If you are an intern at apple, good for you! No one is doubting that if you are bright and briliant enough you can make money in the US. If you set your expectation on what Facebook Google and Apple pays then more often than not you would be frustrated as a recent graduate. The reason you do averages is because by that you factor in best and the brightest together with the wider population of average intellect and skill

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by Jadukor
The BLS data is much more reliable than your assumptions based on your rich and obviously skilled neighborhood friends. BLS is the main agency that provide all the data to congress on labor economics and statistics. They do surveys on a sample of 1.2 million companies.

Top tech companies paying high amounts to their programmers isnt news. If you are an intern at apple, good for you! No one is doubting that if you are bright and briliant enough you can make money in the US. If you set your expectation on what Facebook Google and Apple pays then more often than not you would be frustrated as a recent graduate. The reason you do averages is because by that you factor in best and the brightest together with the wider population of average intellect and skill

Again logical deductions and knowledge of the field aren't assumptions. They are better than any BLS data. While I do not disagree data are a good yeardstick.. telling an engineering or programming student who wants to earn 300K to separate himself from 100k cabdrivers that he will never get to that level because only CEOs get those and there is only one ceo is not only a poor asinine advice but shows dearth of knowledge of the field.

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by Rifat
Dude, that is a sweet offer. I would have gone for it. my biggest concern is that i have family and friends so I am stuck to a location but other than that, it is hard to say no to an offer like that.

yeah it looks sweet. But the thing is for an engineer/programmer - silicon valley is where the real money is. But for a physician, that level of income can be had anywhere in the country. That 200K signon bonus and interest free loan is obviously to cancel out the housing cost (down payment on a million dollar house and subsidizing loans) as they realize the first thing a candidate will think of is the housing cost there but they will most likely sign you up for a 5 year contract or so. It would be a good offer for anyone already living there and wants to stay there but hard to justify for someone else from another part of the country to leave and go into one of the most expensive area in the world.

Why would someone who went trhough 8 years of extra education and training missing out on that many years of income and go into an area earning below a undergrad student in the tech field when he has other options.

but yeah still an enticing offer and u can think of that house as an investment gift by working there perhaps.

[Rifat]

Originally Posted by iDumb
I don't know why it would offend anyone.

Rifat, I like your post. I like the way how you wrote the thinking needs to evolve and should be in relations to everything else and money isn't everythign. All true.

But I fail to see how your post is relevant to making what is your worth. Problems in life that will drag you down will be there whether you make 300 dollars a month or 3 million a month.

Ppl always assume making higher money creates problems in life--- this is a very wrong assumption. It is actually the opposite. Money will make many problems in life will go away. And not all who makes money do not spend time with family.

Everything in life is important. Ppl talk about health. Rich ppl are healthier because they can afford to eat the best food, have time to go to work out and not worry about many things in life to keep their mental health is check A bad disease or accident can strike anyone regardless of money but i fail to see how having more money is a problem that ppl always bring up this and that...

And you should not compare your self to rest of the destitute world where malnutrition is a problem. You want to establish yourself to the point where you can actually help that population instead of worry about your own next housing and meal. i hope that makes sense.

I definitely agree with you there. In Islam, it's all about two things, how we earn the money and how we spend it. With a lot of money comes a lot of responsibilities and accountability. Not everybody is well equipped to handle that or take on that kind of a responsibility. I want to prove some real life examples: a few NBA superstars (Allen Iverson for example) whom at one point was a multi-millionaire is now broke(he made some really poor choices in life). Being Successful also comes down to the person and his/her decision making abilities. There was a movie called "The Wolf of Wall Street(2013)", which is based on a true story. I forgot his name but he is another classic example.

There are many good examples of wealthy people whom I admire like Warren Buffet and Bill Gates family. Despite having a ton of Money, Buffet leads a very simple lifestyle. Bill Gates does a lot of charity work worldwide and gives of tons of scholarships to promising students.

The entire point of my post was to make an attempt to prove that Money is not the only factor at defining success. I am glad you caught that. For me there is a threshold, x amount per year or something like that. For different people who wants to own yachts and private islands or private jets or whatever, that threshold is quite obviously much much higher. some people do not have any threshold, meaning nothing is enough...that's what I was aiming at. I thought My post would be offensive because it was an indirect attack to those whose only aim in life is as follows: "I make more than you, therefore, I am better than you type attitude". Their only purpose of existence is nothing more than to earn money.

Also, you don't necessarily have to be rich to lead a healthy lifestyle. like working out or eating healthy. You can buy organic or grow your own farm(like my mom does during summer).

Having money just by itself definitely does one thing. It gives you power to afford stuff that without money you wouldn't necessarily think about buying(unless you attained it as a gift/for free, which is rare). To me that's about it. it is a means not an end goal.

At a grand scale, the ability to help others and a make a big difference in their lives can also be done irrespective of having or not having money.

Most of us equate Success with having money. People like Albert Einstein, wasn't super rich but was very successful. Michael Hart authored The book "100: A Ranking Of The Most Influential Persons In History". Guess whom he chose as #1 ?

For now, I am focusing on becoming really really really good in my field. it takes a lot of reading, patience, hard work and practice. with Allah's help, I don't see why or how it is impossible.

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by Rifat
I thought My post would be offensive because it was an indirect attack to those whose only aim in life is as follows: "I make more than you, therefore, I am better than you type attitude". Their only purpose of existence is nothing more than to earn money.
.

Good post Rifat. I totally agree with you. The quote above - those type of ppl are uneducated. These are people with lack of empathy, lack of knowledge, lack of true friends and a lack of class.

But I don't mind millionaires flashing a bit of wealth with their nice flashy cars and big houses.. they deserve it. It's the attitude and how they behave with others when you interact with them separates them from the classless

Images of Bill Gates and Warrent Buffet - there are money spent behind that image I hope you understand... they get image consultation. Why do you think zuckerberg donated those facebook shares years ago to NJ education board... that 20 year old kid didn't come up with that.. it's multiple image consultants... Perks of being rich. You can buy how ppl perceive you :p

addendum: Buffet probably made many unfair deals in his life.. and gotten some wealth on back of others.. if you scrutinize every single deals and the repercussions behind those to some ppl. But that's life - that's the capitalist world we live in and we have to survive and fight that way.

[Rifat]

Originally Posted by iDumb
yeah it looks sweet. But the thing is for an engineer/programmer - silicon valley is where the real money is. But for a physician, that level of income can be had anywhere in the country. That 200K signon bonus and interest free loan is obviously to cancel out the housing cost (down payment on a million dollar house and subsidizing loans) as they realize the first thing a candidate will think of is the housing cost there but they will most likely sign you up for a 5 year contract or so. It would be a good offer for anyone already living there and wants to stay there but hard to justify for someone else from another part of the country to leave and go into one of the most expensive area in the world.

Why would someone who went trhough 8 years of extra education and training missing out on that many years of income and go into an area earning below a undergrad student in the tech field when he has other options.

but yeah still an enticing offer and u can think of that house as an investment gift by working there perhaps.

Interesting post!

This sounds a like a classic math problem.

How much you make now. let's call it X. what's your cost of living now. let's call that Y.
so, X - Y would be how much you would end up saving.

now, back to the Silicon Valley offer.

amount to make in Silicon Valley. let's call it Z. cost of living/expenses in Silicon Valley, let's call that R. so, (Z- R) is what you would end up saving if you accepted the silicon valley offer. For me, if (Z-R) is over 15% more than (X-Y), i would definitely take it. maybe for you, there are other factors at play...

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by Rifat
Interesting post!

This sounds a like a classic math problem.

..

this is where i concede you are too good in math for me to understand any of that. and I stop writing more LOL

[DinRaat.]

Originally Posted by Rifat
Interesting post!

This sounds a like a classic math problem.

How much you make now. let's call it X. what's your cost of living now. let's call that Y.
so, X - Y would be how much you would end up saving.

now, back to the Silicon Valley offer.

amount to make in Silicon Valley. let's call it Z. cost of living/expenses in Silicon Valley, let's call that R. so, (Z- R) is what you would end up saving if you accepted the silicon valley offer. For me, if (Z-R) is over 15% more than (X-Y), i would definitely take it. maybe for you, there are other factors at play...

I will give you a first year Calculus question to test your math, are you up for it?

[mufi_02]

eto hishab korle hoy? jibone ki taka poishai shob naki. aro koto kichu ase korar..

I say this after I realized I don't make anywhere close to 300k. nijeke ektu shantona dilam..

[R0ssei]

^^

Consequent to this thread, there may be a poll now re: who makes >300K here? :d

[iDumb]

So those of you who had hard time believing me and kept on referencing BLS (bullshit) data...

here is real data.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/media...165734193.html

Median salary is 240K USD

that's on 25K employees. So a lot of ppl are making a lot of money. Not 1 top dog Kids!

[Jadukor]

I thought you would link some job market data. This link refers to facebook only. Thanks for wasting my time

[Rinathq]

How happy are you? that should be the question

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by Jadukor
I thought you would link some job market data. This link refers to facebook only. Thanks for wasting my time

again your thinking is still all wrong and you still thinking like BLS data...

This is a release of only 1 company that also has 25K (not a small number) employees. FB is not the only tech company. They are in high competetiion with other companijes for talent acquision. Evgen small start ups with good venture back up compete with them for employees. The whole point was there are plenty of jobs with high W2 salary.

Now if you are just one of those brown guy who is just happy to have a job and feel lucky then thats fine be happy. There are plenty of power companies or city jobs or non tech places or software support that will be happy to give u the bls salary. Those places do not really require the skill set of engineering/programming degree .

It is unwise to think everyone is in your boat.

Go back and re read how the convo started then maybe u can appreciate the different and a more realistic take on this.

[R0ssei]

^
Was it me in the starting convo? I recall I only talked about Intern salary. Google, FB, Amazon, MS, Apple pay a lot - everybody knows that. But an undergrad intern making over 100K in North America is hard to swallow.

In Canada, if you say you're surrounded by 300k earning people, you MUST be in room full of VP's and up or Doctors. Period.

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by R0ssei
^
Was it me in the starting convo?

that was for jadukor.

Basically starting convo was a young kid dinraat wanted to make 300K. then a not so smart guy says tha'ts not possible because only CEO makes them and there are only 1 ceo per company.. it will take a lifetime to climb that ladder.

when I came in and tried to gave a more realistic picture of how many many many ppl are making that kind of money as employees and not ceos.

Then Jadukor kept on referencing BLS data how all internet data pointing towards a 60K salary and I kept giving references and real current data that which will show wide variance in salary for an engineering/programming student and not to rely BLS only.

Some of those 60K engineering jobs to be honest ANHYONE can do - u don't need engineering/programming degreee - it is simply an elimination criteria. the jobs that requ8ire programming skills - where u need to constantly update your self with new tech coming up - are very well paid.

And most of these current tech giants are looking for those.. Goog, appl, fb, amazon, uber, microfost, all the other apps - lyft, snap chat... etc etc.. it comes out to be hudrends of thousands of jobs... not 1.

[G-man]

That fb data is total compensation..which is salary + commissions + bonuses + equity , stock options, warrants , rights etc.

To some people they all the same thing and some people don't even bother to read the sec document.

[Sheikh_Saheb]

For me being successful is about:

• Being happy, spreading smiles and laughter.
• Choosing rationality over dogma; not being a forelock tugger.
• Not being a bludger.

cheers
Siraj

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by G-man
That fb data is total compensation..

And ur point is ? The bls data on that 60k average no matter what compensation u add is not gonna go to 240k . Again the number is median .. half of the ppl are making lot more.

Point if this discussion is it's possible to have great income with engineering programming degree . And it's not as rare as many of u think .

[Rifat]

Executives and senior managers may make 300k in some companies but in America, CEOs and some entrepreneours make over 9 million quite easily.

[Jadukor]

Originally Posted by iDumb

Now if you are just one of those brown guy who is just happy to have a job and feel lucky then thats fine be happy. There are plenty of power companies or city jobs or non tech places or software support that will be happy to give u the bls salary. Those places do not really require the skill set of engineering/programming degree .

It is unwise to think everyone is in your boat.

Go back and re read how the convo started then maybe u can appreciate the different and a more realistic take on this.

bhai if you don't trust economists and statisticians that carry out comprehensive salary surveys that is entirely up to you. People also listen to Alex Jones so I guess I should not be surprised. Just don't throw random yahoo articles at me. You always bring minimal research into an argument and pass the buck to the person you are arguing with to do all the research and hard work and prove you wrong. I have seen this before and I don't have time for it honestly. If you are the flag bearer brown rich guy in BC then congratulations and all credit to you. I am in my mid 30s and secure in terms of my own skills, life, money etc. I don't wake up with a mission to prove everyone else is an idiot and that I am a stable genius every morning. Therefore I would rather engage with young graduates and talk about my work experiences and industry experiences and help shape perspective than waste time on ajaira arguments with you on Bureau of Labor Statistics data. Have a good day.

[DinRaat.]

Originally Posted by Jadukor
bhai if you don't trust economists and statisticians that carry out comprehensive salary surveys that is entirely up to you. People also listen to Alex Jones so I guess I should not be surprised. Just don't throw random yahoo articles at me. You always bring minimal research into an argument and pass the buck to the person you are arguing with to do all the research and hard work and prove you wrong. I have seen this before and I don't have time for it honestly. If you are the flag bearer brown rich guy in BC then congratulations and all credit to you. I am in my mid 30s and secure in terms of my own skills, life, money etc. I don't wake up with a mission to prove everyone else is an idiot and that I am a stable genius every morning. Therefore I would rather engage with young graduates and talk about my work experiences and industry experiences and help shape perspective than waste time on ajaira arguments with you on Bureau of Labor Statistics data. Have a good day.

Aspiring undergrad, here, is it true what they say that GPA always isn't the final deal. Coming from a stereo-typically strict academic focused family, do employers really look for GPA or is it just unecessary hype.