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  #26  
Old October 8, 2017, 06:18 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mafizraju
I think the problem is more simple.

The techniques and the mental capacity of the youngsters have not improved at the rate that should have been. Bangladesh played well in the last few test matches because the seniors performed. Younger guys remain highly inconsistent. This is a very worrying trend.
It's not that simple, and it's not all the players fault. When A team series are against subpar opposition how are the fringe players supposed to improve? National team players need international matches to improve also. BCB are responsible for the organisation of these things. Players can try all they want but they can only play who is in front of them and can only play when there are matches to play.

Now I'm not saying the players have no responsibility in this, they do need to learn and develop but they need to be given the right tools, situations and environments so they can develop and learn.

Think I heard them say BD has played just 13 tests away from home since 2010, how can BCB expect the players to improve outside of home when they barely play outside of home and there aren't enough A tours and academy tours etc to prepare the players.
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  #27  
Old October 8, 2017, 07:02 PM
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kalpurush kalpurush is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
It's not that simple, and it's not all the players fault. When A team series are against subpar opposition how are the fringe players supposed to improve? National team players need international matches to improve also. BCB are responsible for the organisation of these things. Players can try all they want but they can only play who is in front of them and can only play when there are matches to play.

Now I'm not saying the players have no responsibility in this, they do need to learn and develop but they need to be given the right tools, situations and environments so they can develop and learn.

Think I heard them say BD has played just 13 tests away from home since 2010, how can BCB expect the players to improve outside of home when they barely play outside of home and there aren't enough A tours and academy tours etc to prepare the players.
This.


BCB needs to organize away tours for the A- team and National team in a regular basis - this is the only option to improve abroad...
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  #28  
Old October 8, 2017, 09:58 PM
Haradhon Haradhon is offline
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I am not defending Mushfiq, but even if we decided to bat first that would not have changed the outcome. The root cause is not Mushfiq but the inability of our batters to face bounce; I blame Mushfiq for not keeping the lid on when 3 wickets fell one afternoon. But the harsh truth is not a single BD batsman has ever handled the pace and bounce in South African condition, not this time and neither in 2008. As for bowling SA bowlers have the 33" height advantage. Just analyze the way batters got out, it is the BOUNCE that wracked the havoc. Accept the truth what we try to hook the South Africans comfortably pull it. In the ODi series the hit/miss ratio of bouncy balls is not as bad as in tests, and the fielding restriction allows us to score thru poorly executed hooks, pulls, and aerial shots.
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  #29  
Old October 8, 2017, 10:17 PM
mafizraju mafizraju is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal
Hmm... at least this series doesn't match with your reasoning. Young players are supposed to be inconsistent and seniors more consistent. Its a realistic expectation, not the problem itself. The problem occurs when senior players becomes inconsistent. And I believe that's what happened here. lets go player by player:

Senior Players:

1. Sakib : Didn't played. So no comment there.
2. Tamim: We missed his performance in 1st TEST. Senior was not performing=1
3. Rahim: He played very poorly (as a batsman) based on his own standard.Senior was not performing=2
4. Riyad: He played more or less poorly. Senior was not performing=3
5. Imrul: His performance was nothing to be proud of as a senior player. Senior was not performing=4.
....
....


We sucked big time because none of our seniors performed. We invested soo many years on them, by this time they should be experienced and consistent on their performance because consistency comes with experience and practice (under high quality coach). And in this series the whole group of senior players are 'kupokath' ... none of them give a fight or took the leadership of leading the young.


So in my humble opinion, inconsistency of new players are not the problem, inconsistency of senior players are the root cause of the problem.

I don't really disagree with you. I only considered Mushfique, Tamim, and Shakib as seniors in the test squad. Mahmudullah would not have been in the squad if Shakib did not take off. Imrul's position in the team was not guaranteed either and the team management doesn't seem to know what position he belongs to. But I am disappointed in him.

We got away because seniors were contributing for a while. In this series the seniors didn't contribute and not a single youngsters or players like Mominul and Imrul could show that they have it in them.
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  #30  
Old October 8, 2017, 10:19 PM
mafizraju mafizraju is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haradhon
I am not defending Mushfiq, but even if we decided to bat first that would not have changed the outcome. The root cause is not Mushfiq but the inability of our batters to face bounce; I blame Mushfiq for not keeping the lid on when 3 wickets fell one afternoon. But the harsh truth is not a single BD batsman has ever handled the pace and bounce in South African condition, not this time and neither in 2008. As for bowling SA bowlers have the 33" height advantage. Just analyze the way batters got out, it is the BOUNCE that wracked the havoc. Accept the truth what we try to hook the South Africans comfortably pull it. In the ODi series the hit/miss ratio of bouncy balls is not as bad as in tests, and the fielding restriction allows us to score thru poorly executed hooks, pulls, and aerial shots.

Right. The issue is of technique. This is where I think the coaching staffs and management have failed. Junior members of the group do not seem to be improving at all.
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  #31  
Old October 8, 2017, 10:24 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mafizraju
I don't really disagree with you. I only considered Mushfique, Tamim, and Shakib as seniors in the test squad. Mahmudullah would not have been in the squad if Shakib did not take off. Imrul's position in the team was not guaranteed either and the team management doesn't seem to know what position he belongs to. But I am disappointed in him.

We got away because seniors were contributing for a while. In this series the seniors didn't contribute and not a single youngsters or players like Mominul and Imrul could show that they have it in them.
Team has been overly reliant on seniors but mominul and liton did play a couple of good innings but it takes more than one player to win a match, of course they didn't get 3 digits so they could have also done better but at least they scored some runs.
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  #32  
Old October 8, 2017, 10:32 PM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mafizraju
Right. The issue is of technique. This is where I think the coaching staffs and management have failed. Junior members of the group do not seem to be improving at all.
You cant practice that technique on our pitches back home. Its why India has an advantage over Pak, SL, BD. They play regular U19, A team cricket in England, SA, Aus, NZ so their batsmen are given the best posible chance of coping with swing/seam and bounce.

The other issue is we dont have any tall 6'4" plus bowlers with pace.
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  #33  
Old October 9, 2017, 10:41 AM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DinRaat.
You hear alot of rumors.
Hey I got ears.

Here's another rumor for the thread:

Quote:
Hassan said the team management - also comprising the coaching staff and manager - was there to provide the captain with specific plans and strategies, and he wanted to find out if Mushfiqur was having problems with anyone.

"I don't think it is the captaincy but something else is bothering him. It could be the management, coach or even us. If we can figure it out, we will solve the problem," Hassan said. "But let me ask you something: is it the management's decision to field first in the second Test? Let us find out.

"There's nothing to hide in this case of who took the decision. Management gives a plan. If they don't give a plan, what's the use of having coaching staff?"
http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/...rahim-comments

Now lets sit back and watch whatever tamasha unfolds. Grab your popcorn, folks.
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  #34  
Old October 9, 2017, 10:54 AM
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Tigers_eye Tigers_eye is online now
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What has the juniors did in tests for the past few years? Fizz and Miraz, yes. That is about it.

The entire batting lineup is filled with

Sarkar, Sabbir, Mosaddek who have no clue on test cricket. They get picked because of their ODI flash. Ailam!!! 4 ball ar 6 ball dekhlam. Dilam bari. OUT. Even Taijul has more intent than these premadonnas.
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  #35  
Old October 9, 2017, 11:13 AM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
What has the juniors did in tests for the past few years? Fizz and Miraz, yes. That is about it.

The entire batting lineup is filled with

Sarkar, Sabbir, Mosaddek who have no clue on test cricket. They get picked because of their ODI flash. Ailam!!! 4 ball ar 6 ball dekhlam. Dilam bari. OUT. Even Taijul has more intent than these premadonnas.
Unfair to put Musa in with Sarkar and Sabbir. Only reason he didn't hit a century on debut is because he batted at #8 instead of the top 5 where he ultimately belongs. Even then, there was enough from to say he's smarter than the rest of our top order combined (Tamim: he has the brain of a 40 yo).

When he was batting with the tail, you saw something no other BD top order batsman knows...which is you don't let the numbers 9, 10, 11 hog the strike.

Baby steps.
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  #36  
Old October 9, 2017, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Unfair to put Musa in with Sarkar and Sabbir. Only reason he didn't hit a century on debut is because he batted at #8 instead of the top 5 where he ultimately belongs. Even then, there was enough from to say he's smarter than the rest of our top order combined (Tamim: he has the brain of a 40 yo).

When he was batting with the tail, you saw something no other BD top order batsman knows...which is you don't let the numbers 9, 10, 11 hog the strike.

Baby steps.
You forgot. We have seen Riyad, Nasir and others score century with the tail. Junior batsmen all combined have failed to deliver. That is the bottom line. Sporadic one or two performance doesn't equal to consistency.

The seniors have been pulling this team for the past few years in test.

And yes, Taijul and other bowlers have more heart than these premadonnas.

+++
Mosaddek may have done good in his only test but he is not the savior.
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  #37  
Old October 9, 2017, 02:48 PM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
You forgot. We have seen Riyad, Nasir and others score century with the tail. Junior batsmen all combined have failed to deliver. That is the bottom line. Sporadic one or two performance doesn't equal to consistency.

The seniors have been pulling this team for the past few years in test.

And yes, Taijul and other bowlers have more heart than these premadonnas.

+++
Mosaddek may have done good in his only test but he is not the savior.
Nasir had a tail consisting of Abul and Gazi...both very capable tail order batsmen. Musa had Mustafiz, Roy, Taijul.

Riyad also had a lot of support from shakib. Asides from that Riyad is actually the only top order batter we have that knows how to bat with the tail.

So Musa is better than anyone else we have. Mushy is one of the worst culprits in this regard.
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  #38  
Old October 9, 2017, 04:45 PM
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Eclipse Eclipse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
You cant practice that technique on our pitches back home. Its why India has an advantage over Pak, SL, BD. They play regular U19, A team cricket in England, SA, Aus, NZ so their batsmen are given the best posible chance of coping with swing/seam and bounce.

The other issue is we dont have any tall 6'4" plus bowlers with pace.
While I agree that our batters don't have much experience of playing on fast and bouncy pitches, but it isn't the only reason behind our shambolic performance in south africa.

Both of the pitches where Bangladesh played their matches weren't typical southafrican pitches with lots of sidewise movement. Yes, they had bounce but both of them were extremely flat. Any other half decent Asian team would've scored plenty of runs on those wickets.

Our main problem is that none of our batters has the temperament to play test cricket which is why we struggle regardless of pitch and conditions. This same bunch got bowled out for 150 against a C grade Australian attack on a flat CTG wicket. Our batters aren't just good enough.
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  #39  
Old October 9, 2017, 05:02 PM
Rana Melb Rana Melb is offline
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Then there’s control. That was lacking from Bangladesh in this series. As a batting unit, we felt that every over there was a boundary you could score, so control is very important.”faf

The room for improvement is still huge .
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  #40  
Old October 9, 2017, 11:50 PM
Mridul Mridul is offline
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My Theory:

Out players are not good enough.

Bowlers just does not know where to bowl in these sort of pitches. Need better coaches in grass root level and lots of foreign tours.

I am not surprised with our batsmen performance. I knew it was coming. Just look at the first class average of our batsmen. If they cant maintain 40+ average, in my opinion they should not be in this team. We need to give chances to the players who maintain healthy average in First class matches and send them A team or HP tours to check if they can maintain that average. If they can then only they should be selected for national team.

India has at least 20 first class batsmen who have not played in national team but maintaining 40+ average. Pitches in south asia is almost similar. How many BD domestic batsmen is maintaining 40+ average?

Solution to improve in Test matches is to play in foreign lands often and select the players first who has high batting average in First Class matches. After that you may select players based on potential talents.
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  #41  
Old October 10, 2017, 12:01 AM
DinRaat. DinRaat. is offline
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We really need veterans to step up and replace the likes of Mosaddek, Soumya, Sabbir. Our middle order is nothing short of garbage.
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  #42  
Old October 10, 2017, 01:00 AM
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Navo Navo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DinRaat.
We really need veterans to step up and replace the likes of Mosaddek, Soumya, Sabbir. Our middle order is nothing short of garbage.
Why do you consider Mosaddek to be in the same category as Soumya and Sabbir? His first class record is infinitely better than the others. If we don't give an extended run in the Test side to the guy who averages 67+ over 35 first class innings, then who?
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  #43  
Old October 10, 2017, 01:07 AM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navo
Why do you consider Mosaddek to be in the same category as Soumya and Sabbir? His first class record is infinitely better than the others. If we don't give an extended run in the Test side to the guy who averages 67+ over 35 first class innings, then who?
Might depend on team composition.

Think we need to find 2 openers that are settled so one is tamim, other might be liton..but selectors seem set on imrul or soumya. we need a number 3 and that could possibly be shanto because mominul needs to be pushed back down to 4, then mushy at 5. Shakib will come back at some stage and that leaves the number 7 spot open for sabbir or mosaddek or nurul or riyad or liton (if he isn't opening).
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  #44  
Old October 10, 2017, 02:49 AM
DinRaat. DinRaat. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navo
Why do you consider Mosaddek to be in the same category as Soumya and Sabbir? His first class record is infinitely better than the others. If we don't give an extended run in the Test side to the guy who averages 67+ over 35 first class innings, then who?
He will be good against subcontinent teams, he has had a run against pace.
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