What went wrong in the Lord's

Can anyone tell me what went right at Lords ......... Everything was wrong .

[Faisal]

well, amra kobe vhalo khelsi? always to airkom khela dheksi ami bd er.... so nothing went wrong.. amra just aktu besi asa kori team theke... give them 5 years then asa kora ocit, donnobad!

Edited on, May 30, 2005, 5:21 PM GMT, by Faisal.

[Ahsan]

Originally posted by chinaman
What went wrong in the Lord's

So we lost again and with a big margin, not to mention, within three days. Of course we are disappointed. Who doesn't like to see his team compete to a minimum?

Why our team failed to put up some fight, what really went wrong? We may never know the correct answer but with some thoughts along with media reports, audio / video / text coverage, it is not very hard to get some clue.

The forum once again shows parades of endless negative comments, from droping Ashraful to sacking Bashar to install Rahim as captain to striping status to selective non-sylhetism and what not.

Look, there must be a pretty good reason why they call it "English condition". There must be something in it's definition that makes those grounds and environment unique. Our players just had a real taste of it. It will take more exposures for our boys to get the hang of it. The ball behaves differently with different bowlers. The pitch is fast and bouncy unlike any other the boys have had experience of. The ball regularly comes at the throat of the batsmen who are already disadvantaged by their own height.

Our batsmen just had a practical exam about that mysterious condition. Expectedly, they didn't do well. Nothing really went drastically wrong.

A solid professional always has extra cache of reserve to handle unexpected situations. Our younger boys slowly but surely continue to build up such reserves while the more matured faces are too matured to risk remodeling. But nonetheless the boys continue to run short in the cache.

The batsmen could not read the ball with confidence while the bowlers struggle to find the right spot to make an impact. Apart from raw speed, the bowlers were left with nothing much to offer, let alone controling and fine tuning.

And the usual blues were there too. Poor shot selection, frequent misjudgement, coarse reflex, nervousness all were there to perfectly repeat the ever known vicious cycle.

But let's be honest, no one can significantly improve these factors overnight. Besides, I think the pre-tension played a huge role to negate any improvement there might be, pretty early on in an innings, more so in an unfamiliar condition.

Ofcourse there are personal limitations too. Let's take Bashar for example. He has been out too often playing similar shots. That seems suicidal. But does he has other options to go by? Probably not. If he has to abandon the pull shots, he might find it even harder for the runs to come by. And he is not a good candidate for drastic remodeling either. We also have some compulsive hitters as well as irregular cool heads. By hey, this is our lunch for the time being.

There is no point in claiming the heads, we simply do not have better choices. What we have in abundance is the potential. With the young talented bunch, if we can cut down the pre-tense and stick to the basics, we can only go forward with each exposure.

There was no surprise in the first match. Seven more to go.

good read...this shows what a leader should be. what his responsibilities and commitment in an adverse situation. yeah, i am talking about chinaman. Only I wish Bashar as our captain thinks/acts this way.

Edited on, May 30, 2005, 6:49 PM GMT, by ISmacker.

[chinaman]

Originally posted by Mridul
..and this is the biggest problem....the only way we can improve our cricket when our team will play often against other A teams in different conditions.....otherwise we have to see these kind of humilation another 2-4 years...

Now I think I've to go on offense.

What is the biggest problem?
What proof do you have that this is the only way we can improve?
What respect to we hold that you are compelled to label every lost match as humiliating knowing well that it really might take another 5 yrs or so to be truely competative?

Playing Farouque is fine. Playing Whatmore is even ok once in a while. But playing ICC from the comfort of a bedroom is anything but bright.

[FaltuRidwanBhai]

jaihok,
koekdin anondo ebong camping ar por kintu abar fire elam. jaihok, bangladesher performance niye kintu ami khub akta hotash hoi nai. karon eta onekta nirdharito chilo. airokom ulta palta khelowar niye akta ochena poribeshe khelle ar theke beshi kichu asha kora jai na. dhannabad.

[mwrkhan]

Originally posted by chinaman
Now I think I've to go on offense.

What is the biggest problem?
What proof do you have that this is the only way we can improve?
What respect to we hold that you are compelled to label every lost match as humiliating knowing well that it really might take another 5 yrs or so to be truely competative?

Playing Farouque is fine. Playing Whatmore is even ok once in a while. But playing ICC from the comfort of a bedroom is anything but bright.

There are losses and then there are losses.

It has been five years now. Still no-one, least of all the BD fans expect us to win or even to draw (think about it). So losses are still pretty much par for the course.

Nobody labeled the loss against Pakistan humiliating, nor even the losses against Australia or the Windies as particularly humiliating. Why? Simply because there were stretches during the games when our team displayed a modicum of competitiveness.

Even in the Lord's test, all it took was an hour or so of sensible batting by Mashud and the condescension eased off a little.

Even you must admit, the threshold of expectation for BD cannot be set any lower, yet the team manages somehow to undermine even that.

I cannot recall an instance when the opposition utterly toyed with us in this fashion (perhaps the Colombo test where we got out for 90 after conceding 550 and a couple of the SL batsmen decided to take a brake out of pity, but that was during the bad old days I suppose).

Given what is going on. Given that the gulf between us and just about every one else is plain to see. Given that the team is fundamentally incapable of adapting to circumstance, just what is to be gained by continuing to plod through the deep end?

Shouldn't we learn to wade before we can swim? It seems to me that your belief in our cause being best served by persisting with the current status-quo is a little headstrong. I for one am willing to entertain fresh ideas at this stage of our predicament. If that means a period of playing second best teams, so be it.

Originally posted by Faisal
well, amra kobe vhalo khelsi? always to airkom khela dheksi ami bd er.... so nothing went wrong.. amra just aktu besi asa kori team theke... give them 5 years then asa kora ocit, donnobad!

Edited on, May 30, 2005, 5:21 PM GMT, by Faisal.

bhai aar koto dibo ......... 5 years to 10 years hoiya jaitasey .......... Don't talk like our politicians .so , when we come to power then we do that , do this ......... (Just Kidding)

[FaltuRidwanBhai]

Originally posted by Faisal
well, amra kobe vhalo khelsi? always to airkom khela dheksi ami bd er.... so nothing went wrong.. amra just aktu besi asa kori team theke... give them 5 years then asa kora ocit, donnobad!

Edited on, May 30, 2005, 5:21 PM GMT, by Faisal.

jaihok,
amar kintu mone hoi apni thiki bolechen. ontoto aro kichu shomoy kintu amader opekkha kortai hobe. ai teamta kintu akhono notun. sachin dravid tendulkarra kintu akdine bhalo khela shuru korenni. onek bochor ak shathe khelar por tader moddhe kintu akta shomzhota gore uthe. ebong tarpor kintu tara khela shuru kore. dhannabad.

[chinaman]

Originally posted by mwrkhan
Given that the gulf between us and just about every one else is plain to see. Given that the team is fundamentally incapable of adapting to circumstance...

I for one am willing to entertain fresh ideas at this stage of our predicament. If that means a period of playing second best teams, so be it.

Its plain to see the gulf becoming narrower, as you mentioned our performance against Australia, Pakistan and West Indies. We already closed the gulf with Zimbabwe.

Adapting to circumstances is all about the reserve I talked about in the first post of this thread.

Fresh ideas are welcome, backward ideas are not.

[FaltuRidwanBhai]

jahok,
england ar poristhiti kintu akdom bhinno. gotobar kintu west indies ekhane 47 run a all out hoye giyechilo etodin dhore khelar por ebong eto bhalo khelowar thakar poro. orthat etai proman kore je england ar poristhite khelar jonno kintu akta bhinno bhabe khelte hoy jeta kintu akhon buzhe uthte pareni amader playerra.

[mwrkhan]

Originally posted by chinaman
Fresh ideas are welcome, backward ideas are not.

I don't consider a spell out of the fire a backward step.

[chinaman]

What you are not making a part of the equation is the fact that there is no ICC or fixed 'calendar' for the second best teams (or A teams). For your argument's sake, let say ICC imposed a one year off. Who you gonna play? A teams from other countries are not dying to invite you and pay the relevent costs. Besides, how many A teams are currently available for you to send even an invitation? Even with the ODI status, the World Cup semifinalist Kenya found it harder than rock to manage just one more ODI, with anyone.

See, what you suggested is neither an option nor a way forward for us. We should not jump with anything we read or hear without doing the homework, without knowing the finer prints. And you wouldn't find good news in finer prints.

[mwrkhan]

Re: Chinaman

A spell out of the fire does not necessarily mean a complete cessation of test cricket.

First we have to recuse ourselves from the 5 year cycle of playing all test teams. It is precisely because of this that we are compelled to play the likes of Australia, South Africa and England, even if it is on an away basis, without being ready for it.

We would do well to play many more games with our sub-continental neighbours. The fact that there is no fixed calendar for 'A' teams is excellent. It would allow us to arrange 'A' tours taking into account our own expediencies. Remember, our 'A' team is actually scheduled to tour England this very season. For experience of overseas conditions we could send near full strength sides as 'A' sides. Absolutely the details can be worked out. Precisely because the stronger test playing countries believe this is what BD ought to be doing now. They would be considerate if we make the case using their own arguments.

We can continue playing tests at home, principally with our neighbours. If test teams from farther afield can be persuaded to tour once in a while, so much the better. For now, I won't be unduly bothered if the likes of Australia, NZ, England or SA don't visit our shores for any length of time.

Mainly play tests at home, tour as 'A' sides to gain experience. Play tests more infrequently. But above all GET INTO THE HABIT OF WINNING! With winning comes confidence and an erosion of pre-tension.

SL and Zimbabwe were playing FC cricket, hosting touring XI's and sending out representative teams for AGES before they were granted test status. SL and Zimbabwe were the dominant non-test sides before they were granted test status. I am sure even the most die-hard BD fan cannot say the same about us when we were a non-test side.

All I am saying is that we need more nuts and bolts experience which could be obtained outside the glare of the elite limelight. All it needs is willpower on our part.

[Faisal]

FRB bhai, asole sotti khota bolte ki... amra bangali ra aktu besi dream dheki... amader jototuku shamortho tar ceye besi asa kori.. aitai amader dosh.. by the way, 1st test karab khelse tai bole amra bolte pari na je bd cricket khelte pare na... aro to amtch ase.. justw ait and see wut happen.... pakistan to westindies er kase 3 din and lunch e lost korsee.. tai bole ki bolmu pakistan cricket khelte apre na? westindies to weak team, anyways... 1 ta match e buja jai na.. so lets see wut happen next..

[chinaman]

Originally posted by mwrkhan
First we have to recuse ourselves from the 5 year cycle of playing all test teams.

As I mentioned earlier, Playing Farouque is fine. Playing Whatmore is even ok once in a while. But playing ICC from the comfort of a bedroom is anything but bright.

We can continue playing tests at home, principally with our neighbours.

Yeah, they will keep their own calendar clean for us.

For experience of overseas conditions we could send near full strength sides as 'A' sides.

No arguing that. But is this what you meant when you said, "..If that means a period of playing second best teams, so be it"?

But above all GET INTO THE HABIT OF WINNING!

Please don't be fooled by the creative writing. Wining is not a habit, it's a product of ability. We may win 100% against the Honk Kong, UAE or the likes over a period of two years exclusively, but we still need way more than just those wins to compete against England.

SL and Zimbabwe were playing FC cricket, hosting touring XI's and sending out representative teams for AGES before they were granted test status. SL and Zimbabwe were the dominant non-test sides before they were granted test status.

We can not change history. What is the point of bringing this up now?

All I am saying is that we need more nuts and bolts experience which could be obtained outside the glare of the elite limelight. All it needs is willpower on our part.

Will is there and the development is underway. We the fans need to be patient and considerate and leave the professionals do the planning. Ofcourse, we will protest if we spot something seriously wrong.

[Akib]

Adding to Chinaman's last remark... we are just slow of the gate. There is no problem with that. Other teams took many years to play well and when they started they didnt play full strength sides. We're facing the second best team in the world at the best form since Bothom and co.

Edited on, May 30, 2005, 11:51 PM GMT, by aka.

[mwrkhan]

Originally posted by chinaman

Yeah, they will keep their own calendar clean for us.

What exactly do you mean by "keeping calendar clean"? Why do calendars have to be cleared to accomodate us? Or are you suggesting that the only reason countries play us is because the ICC schedule compels them to? If this is not an indictment of our cricket then what is? You said it.

No arguing that. But is this what you meant when you said, "..If that means a period of playing second best teams, so be it"?

The local test team i.e. the best team does not play 'A' tourists. Second best teams do. They include the host 'A' team, county sides, state sides, representative XI's etc. So yes, that is exactly what I meant.

Please don't be fooled by the creative writing. Wining is not a habit, it's a product of ability. We may win 100% against the Honk Kong, UAE or the likes over a period of two years exclusively, but we still need way more than just those wins to compete against England.

Beating HK or the UAE all the time may not allow us to win against England but eventually being able to beat our neighbours at test cricket or the 'A' teams of the likes of Australia or SA will give us the wherewithall to compete with England. Where did I ever suggest playing against HK or the UAE anyway?

We can not change history. What is the point of bringing this up now?

If we are constantly churning up history (viz. India and NZ) to put our current performances into perspective then I can certainly bring up history as a pointer to the path we can follow.

[chinaman]

I think I made my points clear. Repeat reading should fill up the gaps if any. Cheers.

[Rabz]

Originally posted by FaltuRidwanBhai

jaihok,
amar kintu mone hoi apni thiki bolechen. ontoto aro kichu shomoy kintu amader opekkha kortai hobe. ai teamta kintu akhono notun. sachin dravid tendulkarra kintu akdine bhalo khela shuru korenni. onek bochor ak shathe khelar por tader moddhe kintu akta shomzhota gore uthe. ebong tarpor kintu tara khela shuru kore. dhannabad.

wait for 5 more years ??

mates..we can give our own team 50 more years to improve..but the whole world wudnt have that patience and would certainly not put up with our failure...

players like bashar, ash, javed, mashud, rafiq have been playin with each other for quite sometimes now...
though the time period is not that big...but they did play a awful number of test matches between them ...

JO 28 tests with an average of 22 !!
HB 35 tests with an average of 34 (great for us)
ASh 26 test with average of 24 !!

now that just doenst sound all right to me...
Bashar is excused , so is rafiq and pilot...

but what about JO or ASH or Aftab whoz got a average of 16 ! and he is one of our middle order....!!!

just a litttle comparison...strauss have an average of 57 !!! from 13 test....

i dont expect our players to be world's best and break bradman's record...

but please dont tell me players like ASH or JO needs even more time to settle down in the game...they played, if im not wrong, against all the other opponents..and by now should have a good idea aboout how to bat against a bowling attack..no matter how good they are...

more importantly..its not the way they bat..its the way they get out...players like bashar...its simply beyond any excuse....

i would say that from JO im hoping for a good innings...from nafees i expect to better as each match progresses..
but from bashar its more like a demand that he plays good...
he is our best batsman...he is our captain...
all our hopes centres around him...

and FRB..as u said...sachin, dravid took time to settle down in the middle..

but they also had a good solid team to progress with...
when they started..india had players like ravi shashtri..ajharuddin..etc..who could make up if they had done bad...

but for our team..if habib plays bad...if ash plays bad..whos to make up??? an innings of 44 by pilot (almost every other time)..doesnt save from humiliation..

i know its a lot to ask from some one every time...
but we are no ordinary team...

no other team goes in the field with the world media and its "greats" tryin to rip them thru...every time....

our backs at the wall...

we just cant afford any more loose games....

im tellin again..if we dont do reasonably good during this tour....

this well could be our last overseas trip...(except zim)...

icc is under a mountain pressure here....

just hope there is a miracle somewhere along the lines...
...who knows...

[chinaman]

Originally posted by Sydney
mates..we can give our own team 50 more years to improve..but the whole world wudnt have that patience and would certainly not put up with our failure...

Hehehe, forget about 5 years, you are not giving even a match break! Weren't you full of praise just a test ago?

Few posts earlier, you mentioned of being tired of learning curves and now you are ready to give 50 years but afraid of world's patience!

Take it easy bro, please take it easy.

[Rabz]

Originally posted by chinaman

Hehehe, forget about 5 years, you are not giving even a match break! Weren't you full of praise just a test ago?

Few posts earlier, you mentioned of being tired of learning curves and now you are ready to give 50 years but afraid of world's patience!

Take it easy bro, please take it easy.

I am taking it easy bro...
i am taking it easy...

it just that cant take it any more easier....

yes..i was full of praise of them when they won..
yes..i wrote last few posts with "my spirits flyin high"
and yes,..im also tired of learning curves...

how can u hate someone if you dont love them enough?

in reply to one of ur replies to my previous posts....
when u mentioned about getting a shortcut for our kids to phd and skippin school years...

no im not looking for any shortcut...
neither i hoping for any....

but at the same time...when ur kid does something bad or naughty..u gotta tell them thats not right..u gotta teach them manners and the difference btw right n wrong...

u cant just keep on praising them all the time..
...sometimes u'd hv to take the hard stand and say abt the things thats going wrong...

im not abondoning my team here..im just critical of the way they played their game...

as a supporter ...as a countrymen... i have all the right to do that....

and about patience...if ur kid fails year 1 five times... u'll b runnin about of it too....

im not talkin about winnin matches..
im talkin about a decent fight here....
the ability to make atleast 200 runs in one single innings...
the ability to take the test match to 5th day...

IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK AFTER 5 YEARS ?

if you send ur kid to school......after five years u'd at least expect them to learn the ABCD's....

and no matter how much u believe in ur kid and know about thier talent n luv them to death..
if they keep on failin every time on the finals... ( the one that matters)
the school principal might would have no other choice but to let the kid go...just for others sake...

but still u know ur kid...and u know someday he'll make it...
he'll prove the his school principal wrong..he'll prove his teachers wrong...he'll prove everyone wrong...

and he's gonna make u proud some day...

for ur sake and for all of ours sake...

lets just hope that day is coming soon....

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
i understand ur pain...we all suffering the same here...
its just we all are different...and have different ways of dealing with those pains...

thats all....
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im enjoyin this...
any constructive agrument is good....
after all...we all r on the same side...

[Faisal]

strange ppl!!! if u dont like it then dont watch it or dont follow it.. simple...

[FaltuRidwanBhai]

Originally posted by Faisal
strange ppl!!! if u dont like it then dont watch it or dont follow it.. simple...

jaihok,
apni kintu thik kotha bolechen. srilanka kintu akdine bissho champion hoinee. tader shai obosthay pouchute kintu onek shomoy legeche. dhannabad.