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  #1  
Old September 15, 2005, 01:03 PM
6alltheway 6alltheway is offline
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Default New Cricketing System - Can it work?

ok now i was just thinking, how come there isnt like structure for cricket like there is in Football, i know football is very different but it is possible to have a similar structure,

as you all see bangladesh are at the bottom of the ICC leagues Championship for both test and ODI's,

Realistically speaking it will take us a very long time to win matches and get us to top or even middle table becuase we know the class of the other international teams there.

Wouldnt it be a better idea for both cricket and bangladesh to have a 2nd ICC league, maybe just for ODI's now and for test later, where teams of lower calibre can play each other and at the end of the season have a chance of promotion and relegation? this is how it would work

currently as everyone knows there is the 1 ICC league for cricket, those teams with ODI and test status.

In the new system, there wud be 2 LEAGUES,

1 CHAMPIONSHIP league and 1 DIVISON league,

each league wud of 8 teams each in it and they can only play teams within thier league, until you get promoted or relegated to the perspective league.

so for championship you would have the following teams:

1 Australia
2 England
3 India
4 South Africa
5 New Zealand
6 Sri Lanka
7 Pakistan
8 West Indies

and for league 1 u wud have these teams, (im just saying the teams i know)

1 Bangladesh
2.Zimbabwe
3 Canada
4.Scotland
5. USA
6. Japan
7 Namibia
8. Ghana

Top 2 teams from league 1 at the end of the season wud qualify to go the championship league and bottom 2 from championship league wud come down to league 1.

now i know its hard to find teams of international criteria but this is the only way teams like bangladesh and zim will really progress and be a good team for the future.

tell me what you guys think? im all up for critisism becoz i know this idea maybe thought of already and may not possible but still let me know wat u guys think and can it really work?
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  #2  
Old September 15, 2005, 01:42 PM
6alltheway 6alltheway is offline
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no replies??? my idea good or bad??? can anyone say?
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  #3  
Old September 15, 2005, 01:51 PM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6ALLTHEWAY
no replies??? my idea good or bad??? can anyone say?
Bad
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  #4  
Old September 15, 2005, 02:00 PM
6alltheway 6alltheway is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fazal
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ALLTHEWAY
no replies??? my idea good or bad??? can anyone say?
Bad
reasons?
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  #5  
Old September 15, 2005, 02:00 PM
nas nas is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6ALLTHEWAY
no replies??? my idea good or bad??? can anyone say?
this work in football as u righty said, but in club football.

this hapens in cricket too, but in domestic cricket leagues,
here in uk,
county set up like this, u have a 4 day, and a one day league of 8 teams. at end of season 3 teams gets relageted and promoted.

in international cricket there is no way a team could play every other team in league in bot odi and test series, in a season. it would take at least 5 years for a international team to play each other both home and away in test and odi series..

neway to answer ur question this will not work,

say if zimbabue or Bangladesh were to be promoted they would still stugle aganist the other top test teams.
they may win the second tier league because they are better than others in that division 1 league, but it doesn't necesarly mean they would become good enough for top tear test league., cause they would have come up aganist the quality of top teams.
even in football u see those promoted team getting hammered every weekend by the establised team in the league and its usally those promoted team gets relageted come the end of the season.
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  #6  
Old September 15, 2005, 02:10 PM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6ALLTHEWAY
Quote:
Originally posted by Fazal
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ALLTHEWAY
no replies??? my idea good or bad??? can anyone say?
Bad
reasons?
Hey....do I have to give a reason? Now I know why no one replied!

The break down doesn't make sense from BD or ZIM point of view. Now if you breakdown by top 5 teams and bottom five teams (from 10 ten test playing nation), it will be further more interesting topic for discussion

Edited on, September 15, 2005, 7:10 PM GMT, by Fazal.
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  #7  
Old September 15, 2005, 02:23 PM
6alltheway 6alltheway is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by nas
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ALLTHEWAY
no replies??? my idea good or bad??? can anyone say?
this work in football as u righty said, but in club football.

this hapens in cricket too, but in domestic cricket leagues,
here in uk,
county set up like this, u have a 4 day, and a one day league of 8 teams. at end of season 3 teams gets relageted and promoted.

in international cricket there is no way a team could play every other team in league in bot odi and test series, in a season. it would take at least 5 years for a international team to play each other both home and away in test and odi series..

neway to answer ur question this will not work,

say if zimbabue or Bangladesh were to be promoted they would still stugle aganist the other top test teams.
they may win the second tier league because they are better than others in that division 1 league, but it doesn't necesarly mean they would become good enough for top tear test league., cause they would have come up aganist the quality of top teams.
even in football u see those promoted team getting hammered every weekend by the establised team in the league and its usally those promoted team gets relageted come the end of the season.
i agree you cant have a test league like that, but you can have a ODI's, coz they are short. you can easily have a home and away match with 7 teams with say like 2 matches in a week within 14 weeks, which is just under four months.

and who is to say bangladesh will get promoted, i think it will be a really good challenge for them and rest of the other teams too, and bd are more liekly to get better at cricket by playing teams of thier quality.
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  #8  
Old September 15, 2005, 02:27 PM
6alltheway 6alltheway is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fazal
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ALLTHEWAY
Quote:
Originally posted by Fazal
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ALLTHEWAY
no replies??? my idea good or bad??? can anyone say?
Bad
reasons?
Hey....do I have to give a reason? Now I know why no one replied!

The break down doesn't make sense from BD or ZIM point of view. Now if you breakdown by top 5 teams and bottom five teams (from 10 ten test playing nation), it will be further more interesting topic for discussion
BD and ZIM will struggle with rest of the 3 teams from test status and will be bottom anyway. so whats the point in that? the discussion was opened to allow teams like BD and ZIM play teams like of scotland, canada and the rest, coz they really are same catergory as bangladesh in terms of quality and strentgh

Edited on, September 15, 2005, 7:27 PM GMT, by 6ALLTHEWAY.
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  #9  
Old September 15, 2005, 02:27 PM
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Mahmood Mahmood is offline
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This wont work. The bottom 2 of the top tier will still be better then the top 2 from the bottom tier and wont be fair to swap them between tiers.

This is how cricket is, you have to play the top teams to get better, no alternatives.
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  #10  
Old September 15, 2005, 02:29 PM
6alltheway 6alltheway is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mahmood
This wont work. The bottom 2 of the top tier will still be better then the top 2 from the bottom tier and wont be fair to swap them between tiers.

This is how cricket is, you have to play the top teams to get better, no alternatives.
to get better, yes, but do u see signs of bangladesh at the current moment getting better?
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  #11  
Old September 15, 2005, 02:32 PM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6ALLTHEWAY
the discussion was opened to allow teams like BD and ZIM play teams like of scotland, canada and the rest, coz they really are same catergory as bangladesh in terms of quality and strentgh
And therefore there is nothing to gain for BAN and ZIM. In cricket you improve when you play against better team not playing with similar or lower skilled teams

So again according to me its a BAD idea from BD and ZIM point of view.
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  #12  
Old September 15, 2005, 02:42 PM
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Mahmood Mahmood is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6ALLTHEWAY
do u see signs of bangladesh at the current moment getting better?
At the moment something is seriously wrong we all know that. But if you look at the graph, we are slowly improving (beating India, Australia in last 10 months). And if you think we will never ever win again, you are wrong.. as long as we continue to play the top teams, we will improve.

This is a bad series with zero preparation and somewhat bad selection with internal fights and injury.
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  #13  
Old September 15, 2005, 02:45 PM
6alltheway 6alltheway is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fazal
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ALLTHEWAY
the discussion was opened to allow teams like BD and ZIM play teams like of scotland, canada and the rest, coz they really are same catergory as bangladesh in terms of quality and strentgh
And therefore there is nothing to gain for BAN and ZIM. In cricket you improve when you play against better team not playing with similar or lower skilled teams

So again according to me its a BAD idea from BD and ZIM point of view.
What they gain is confidence, the motivation, the desire to want to play the big teams and beat them. What they see is a goal, a relalistic goal to reach a standard where the big teams are.

when you play so many good teams all the time and loose, what do you gain? technically maybe u learn how to develop, but after each match when you loose you are sad and depressed and wiery of ur next match, wonder how much u will loose by, or even planning to loose by a lesser margain than last time.
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  #14  
Old September 15, 2005, 03:10 PM
rohitha rohitha is offline
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" (beating India, Australia in last 10 months).... " look, the sooner you guys stop talking about these two isolated wins the better it is for BD cricket.
In a way these two wins seem to have done more damage to BD, giving them a false sence of achievement & security thus clouding the real problems that need to be addressed.

Winning against Aus is not going to happen everyday as Zim under John Traicos also beat Australia way back in 1983 (WC) which stood like a lone beacon for years to come.
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  #15  
Old September 15, 2005, 03:18 PM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6ALLTHEWAY

What they gain is confidence, the motivation, the desire to want to play the big teams and beat them. What they see is a goal, a relalistic goal to reach a standard where the big teams are.

when you play so many good teams all the time and loose, what do you gain? technically maybe u learn how to develop, but after each match when you loose you are sad and depressed and wiery of ur next match, wonder how much u will loose by, or even planning to loose by a lesser margain than last time.
Again in my opinion, you can do other things rather than dividing 2-tier with only BAN and ZIM (among test playing nation) in lower tier. Its not the answer for sake of confidence building.

If you ask me, I think we can achieve similar goals and not depriving from improved competetion. Some of them may be:

a) Reduce tours and increase the gap between two tours.

b) Add more practice matches in each tours.

c) Continue sending team-a to test playing nations.

d) Add more tours with weaker TEST playing teams and reduce tours with stronger TEST playing teams

e) Add some tours with stronger non test playing teams like Scotland, Kenya.

Thats enough with this topic. I promise, no more reply.



Edited on, September 15, 2005, 8:38 PM GMT, by Fazal.
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  #16  
Old September 15, 2005, 04:02 PM
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Sorry Sorry is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fazal
[Hey....do I have to give a reason? Now I know why no one replied!

Edited on, September 15, 2005, 7:10 PM GMT, by Fazal.
a good thread doesn't necessarily get many replies. this is because, from psychological point of view most people are interested in 'bias' or 'argumentative" discussion rather than constructive but boring one.
i can assure you that if you post any thread about chacha, it will be flooded with posts or if someone joining here from another country with a thread "Gin and Tonic", it will also be flooded with many posts.
i am not being nationalist and many will be disagree but i feel that we have not managed to clean up our depression in our attitude from the colonial time. off topic though.
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  #17  
Old September 15, 2005, 04:22 PM
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Zobair Zobair is offline
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It won't work. Two reasons:

1. Cricket is a game of skill. One can only improve if they are challenged and continuously 'examined' by a strong opposition.

2. Instead of relegating Bangladesh into a group which will effectively cut off Bangladesh Cricket from crucial revenue flow, and high intensity cricket exposure, we should continue to work on our domestic cricket, and make it a quality one.

Short-term solutions to stop the run of losses (via relagation) will have severe long term debilitating negative psychological and cricketing consequences for the game in Bangladesh. Cricket will be one more thing our nation sucks at. There is too much at stake to give up now. We have to hang in there and tough it out. IMHO there is no other way.

I am tired of this comparison with SL and others' initial performances. I will once again refer you to the follwing article that was published here at BanglaCricket. I hope somebody brings it to Manjrekar's attention.

Answering Critics

PS: Such topics when they are brought up by Bangladeshi fans are really hurtful, and makes me wonder why some of us every bother to put in our time year after year, Oh I know! Because regardless of one test match, on series, heck 5 test series, we believe in our talent, that our boys will eventually make it, that we have the fan base, the growing infrastructure, the goodwill of the government and the people. Some of our critics will be dead in a decade's time, but I strongly believe that our cricket will be very much alive and thriving. At least I hope such fans of ours who don't have the guts to stick through the rough, will be extinct by then.


Edited on, September 15, 2005, 9:25 PM GMT, by Zobair.
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  #18  
Old September 15, 2005, 04:50 PM
ZunaidH ZunaidH is offline
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6ALLTHEWAY;

I am almost tempted to crack some jokes at you. But I shall refrain. You are inherently talking about a 2 tier system which so many people in the world want to put us in.

And you are asking for reply. You should be happy that you have not been in the ban list yet. Now count your blessings and move on man (or woman)!
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  #19  
Old September 15, 2005, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rohitha
" (beating India, Australia in last 10 months).... " look, the sooner you guys stop talking about these two isolated wins the better it is for BD cricket.
why win against australia and india have to be isolated? can you give any reason?

Edited on, September 15, 2005, 10:09 PM GMT, by banglar_dorbesh.
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  #20  
Old September 15, 2005, 07:51 PM
shanto shanto is offline
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Moderator,
Please remove the topic for further discussion. The discussion of 2 tier system is pointless and obsolete.
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  #21  
Old September 15, 2005, 09:03 PM
shaoun shaoun is offline
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well this idea of having two league is the samething as two tier test system. many people have suggested it but icc will not do that. if i was an australian or indian or if i was from any other test playing countries i may think it would be a good idea to have weak opposition play in a separate league. but as a bengali i know it would break our heart if we are demoted to another league. so i cannot support that because the fact is we already has test status and it would be really bad for our cricket if we are demoted to play against weaker opposition.
even after the test and odi series against srilanka, i can say we have improved alot since getting our test status. in this year we beat india and australia. in less then 2 years we won 7 odi matches. we won our first test series and odi series. beating zimbabwe didnt get us any respect, we need to beat stronger teams. and for us to do that we will need more time.
the fact is bangladesh didnt deserve test status in 2000. we were just not strong enough as a team. but since we were given test status its silly to take it away. because we are improving. yes we are improving in a slow pace but we are improving. those who dont believe that we are getting better just look at our stats in last 4/5 years.
6alltheway, i dont think this is a stupit topic at all but similar topic we discussed it before. as a bangladeshi fan i cannot support what you said. because if we are to be put in a separate league this wont do any good for our cricket. this will destroy our cricket.
i dont think bangladeshi fans should lose hope on this team. because this cricket team is getting better. and within next few years if we continue improving like this we will surpass teams like westindies.
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  #22  
Old September 15, 2005, 09:09 PM
shaoun shaoun is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by rohitha
" (beating India, Australia in last 10 months).... " look, the sooner you guys stop talking about these two isolated wins the better it is for BD cricket.
In a way these two wins seem to have done more damage to BD, giving them a false sence of achievement & security thus clouding the real problems that need to be addressed.

Winning against Aus is not going to happen everyday as Zim under John Traicos also beat Australia way back in 1983 (WC) which stood like a lone beacon for years to come.
well winning against australia proved that we can beat any team in any given day. why we isolate winning against australia? because that is our biggest win so far and australia is the best team in the world. well winning against india was a big win too. but the fact is india is overrated team. so maybe we shouldnt make big deal out of beating them. but yeah beating australia was a big achievement for our cricket. this win proved that in a good day we can beat anyone.
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  #23  
Old September 15, 2005, 09:12 PM
chinaman chinaman is offline
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6ALLTHEWAY

Please quote only when necessary and only the relevent parts of a post instead of quoting everything. Thanks.
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  #24  
Old September 15, 2005, 09:26 PM
shaoun shaoun is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by shanto
Moderator,
Please remove the topic for further discussion. The discussion of 2 tier system is pointless and obsolete.
i think this is a good discussion. just because you dont like what we are talking about doesnt mean this topic should be removed. the quality of the discussion we have really sucks but i think this is a good discussion. i dont agree with two tier test system too. we need to respect and hear other peoples opinion even if we dont agree with it.
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  #25  
Old September 15, 2005, 10:15 PM
SS SS is offline
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NO system, nothing will work for us. Starting from our selectors, policy makers no system never worked. They never plan all they do is to take money and eat it. Our players also will be pathetic because they came from that flawed structure that it's already rotten and never can be fixed no matter how much money you put.
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