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  #1  
Old October 24, 2005, 10:21 PM
fab fab is offline
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Default Are you offended by piggy-banks?

"British banks are banning piggy banks because they may offend some Muslims.Halifax and NatWest banks have led the move to scrap the time-honoured symbol of saving from being given to children or used in their advertising, the Daily Express/Daily Star group reports here."

source

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This is ridiculous. The British have NO idea about multiculturalism. They try to create a facade of tolerance by implementing ludicrous tokenisms which do nothing but fuel the fear of the natives that 'the foreigners are taking over'. They should learn from the colonies.

Yes, there could be 1% of muslims who may get offended by seeing a piggy bank, but what of the other 99% who don't care one jot?

Sometimes I think there is a false stigma about pigs amongst muslims. Yes, we are not allowed to eat swine, but we are not allowed to eat shellfish either yet one rarely see muslims recoil at images of crabs and lobsters. In fact, I do believe we all love prawns

Even the image of a bottle of gin would be better than a picture of a pig to some muslims!

Edited on, October 25, 2005, 3:29 AM GMT, by fab.
Reason: accidently submitted without giving my personal commentary!
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  #2  
Old October 25, 2005, 12:52 AM
Huda Huda is offline
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lol, you say we have no idea of multiculuurism?

were one of the most multi cultured societies in the world.

that is showing to repsect to all religions, go to france you will what type of secularism exists there.

britian is a brilliant country better than most others in keeping all faiths racially , culutraly quiet, cept recent violence.

give me an example when the british have

"tried to create a facade of tolerance by implementing ludicrous tokenisms which do nothing but fuel the fear of the natives that 'the foreigners are taking over'. They should learn from the colonies."

we have a multicultured society compared to for example australia, where i believe it is worse than the U.K. we allow asylum seekers, foreigners into our country rather than reject them. multiculturism doesnt exist if you dont have respect, dont have different cultures or different religions.
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  #3  
Old October 25, 2005, 06:47 AM
Banglatiger84 Banglatiger84 is offline
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Difference between pork and shellfish:

Pork is Haram as per Quran

Shellfish has no mention in the Quran. However, shellfish is considered either Makruh (discouraged), or Halal.


About British multiculturalism, I agree that UK has done a better job than France or Germany. However, what is the reason that social indicators are not so favorable for Bengalis there (crime, school dropouts) when compared to Bengalis in the States?

Recently, Burger King withdrew some ice cream cover becaue the design remotely resembled "Allah" in Arabic. Its just like the "Coca Cola" case, some Muslims getting over-sensitive over minor issues.
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  #4  
Old October 25, 2005, 06:55 AM
Huda Huda is offline
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i dont believe its over sensitive, the coca cola meanin in arabic is against muslims how can that be over sensitive.

you can call it being overly paranoid, conspiracy but not beign sensitive over it because if you take what you belive, the meaning is offensive
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  #5  
Old October 25, 2005, 07:08 AM
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A few points:
1. I believe the drop outs in England being more than in USA has to do something with a certain districts of population being mainstream in England who are not very fond of study (of course with exceptions). This might get some people offended here but its a fact.

2. The list of haram has priorities. Even though I'm not 100% sure, but a seemingly learned person told me that the reason pork is haram is [edited].
(I mean it will get edited if I write it. It is not G rated). That is considered the number one type of haram. So comparing pork with shellfish or even wine does not make sense because wine stays below pork.
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  #6  
Old October 25, 2005, 07:13 AM
Banglatiger84 Banglatiger84 is offline
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Heres the thing, You make to make a real struggle, add dots and lines, to make a reflection of Coca Cola's design to look like a anti-muslim remark.

Now if linguists and researchers can absolve Coke of any crime, I dont see why we should continue to hold on to the belief that its anti-muslim

"In May 2000, the Grand Mufti Sheik Nasser Farid Wassel, Egypts most senior religious figure, gave his opinion on the matter. The artwork was also closely scrutinized by researchers and linguists at the Iftaa Institute, a scholarly authority on Islamic law. All found no harm. "
http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/islam.asp
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  #7  
Old October 25, 2005, 07:49 AM
Huda Huda is offline
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im not sayin anything over that im syain people will find stuff like that offensive, theres a difference between offensivenss and senstivity
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  #8  
Old October 25, 2005, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rubu
So comparing pork with shellfish or even wine does not make sense because wine stays below pork.
Just a clearification. Wine or alcohol is the mother of all evil. Once you consume and get drunk you can do any evil that is possible. Pork is haram period just like Alcohol.

Agree with Rubu on shellfish, prawn or lobster can not be compared with the above two things.

On the topic fab is right. "This is ridiculous." They need to do something else to the muslims to get them in the mainstream. Better communication is one. Stop profiling is another.
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  #9  
Old October 25, 2005, 10:20 AM
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I know what you are saying cats_eye. and you are right. but what I was trying to say is, even though you can see the effect of alchohol and can't see the effect of pork (if any), pork is still rated high on the list of haram. why? don't ask me. i don't know.
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  #10  
Old October 25, 2005, 10:25 AM
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maybe because alcohol can be a cure at times, whereas pork, due to its high level of fat content, can never be the same.

btw - banning piggy banks? this is ridiculous!
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  #11  
Old October 25, 2005, 10:39 AM
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I found this great article on Pork. It is a must read. Rather than creating another topic I thought this would a good place to insert.

Great Facts on Pork

Christians and Jews should stop eating pork also.
So do not hate pigs just don't eat any part of it.
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  #12  
Old October 25, 2005, 10:48 AM
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No point of banning piggy bank. And if ban piggy bank (any way) why not distribute a 'chagi bank' or a 'hamba bank' instead. Why deprive those kids?
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  #13  
Old October 25, 2005, 12:22 PM
Huda Huda is offline
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jews rarely eat pork,
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  #14  
Old October 25, 2005, 04:41 PM
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akabir77 akabir77 is offline
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the latest thing is bird flue cannot come to human directly it comes via pig...

All sea food can be eaten...(there goes you your crab problem)

Pork also have high rate of germs and other stuff in its meat..which was proved couple of years ago.
also the FAT.
I don't see anyone complaining why can't we eat dogs? i hard its pretty good (from korian friend) and he said it tests like chiken!!! why the hell you need to eat dog to get chicken test? eat chiken (that was my answer to him). May be we r to westernised and want to do all they does... and that's why we don't bother about other stuff.....
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  #15  
Old October 25, 2005, 06:34 PM
fab fab is offline
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Quote:
May be we r to westernised and want to do all they does...
What the devil? I have NO desire to eat pork. Heck, I'd be a vegetarian if my mother would allow me. Where on earth did you get that idea?

Quote:
lol, you say we have no idea of multiculuurism?
Yup, that's right. Actually, I'd say Europeans don't understand multiculturalism (naturally, for historical reasons). To them, multiculture means getting rid of aspects of certain cultures.

Multiculturalism is NOT about eliminating parts of various cultures to pander to certain groups. It is about respecting the beliefs and traditions of everyone in the community even if you personally find them offensive. It's a two way street - one group cannot demand tolerance from another group if they themselves do not tolerate others.
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  #16  
Old October 25, 2005, 06:55 PM
fab fab is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rubu
A few points:
1. I believe the drop outs in England being more than in USA has to do something with a certain districts of population being mainstream in England who are not very fond of study (of course with exceptions). This might get some people offended here but its a fact.
Haha! How very diplomatic you are Agent

No, but to be fair to the Sylhetis, they faced a lot of racism and isolation and it is very difficult to succeed when you are treated like a 2nd class citizen. Bangladeshi immigrants to the USA, Canada etc didn't have it so bad since there were other larger minority groups in these countries (e.g. blacks) who were targetted first. You know the largest minority is generally the scourge of a country.
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  #17  
Old October 25, 2005, 07:19 PM
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Ok fab, i never said it was their fault that sylhetis do not study much, and your reasoning make sense. so there is no more enigma anymore about why there are more drop outs in uk than in usa.

why the higher drop outs? because sylhetis do not study much.
why don't they study much? because they face the minority problem. end of the story.
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  #18  
Old October 25, 2005, 08:40 PM
PoorFan PoorFan is offline
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Quote:
Wine or alcohol is the mother of all evil. Once you consume and get drunk you can do any evil that is possible.
Yes, there is a possibility. All those human doing evil things are not drunk, wine or alcohol is not the fundamental reason I think. Rest of the world would have full of evil things / people if it's really works that way.
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  #19  
Old October 25, 2005, 09:39 PM
Tehsin Tehsin is offline
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People have plenty of REAL PROBLEMS/ISSUES to deal with, a piggy bank is one of life's most inconsequential issues. If someone is petty enough to get offended by a piggy bank, s/he has misplaced priorities. The problem with this sort of people, they are never wrong (ie, in their mind, they are just and righteous) and no point wasting your precious time to prove them otherwise.

My two cents.
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  #20  
Old October 26, 2005, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by fab

Yes, there could be 1% of muslims who may get offended by seeing a piggy bank, but what of the other 99% who don't care one jot?
those 99% dont care then whats the fuss?? if they dont care they shouldnt be offended by removing it...
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  #21  
Old October 26, 2005, 03:09 AM
Huda Huda is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by fab
Quote:
May be we r to westernised and want to do all they does...
What the devil? I have NO desire to eat pork. Heck, I'd be a vegetarian if my mother would allow me. Where on earth did you get that idea?

Quote:
lol, you say we have no idea of multiculuurism?
Yup, that's right. Actually, I'd say Europeans don't understand multiculturalism (naturally, for historical reasons). To them, multiculture means getting rid of aspects of certain cultures.

Multiculturalism is NOT about eliminating parts of various cultures to pander to certain groups. It is about respecting the beliefs and traditions of everyone in the community even if you personally find them offensive. It's a two way street - one group cannot demand tolerance from another group if they themselves do not tolerate others.
i guess u havent been to england.

The european story is different. The U.K has huge repsect for different religions, we have faith schools, for the variosu different religions, many parts of country have been taken by muslims that they dont even complain for e.g bradford, brick lane, burnley. the shops in these ares are run , bought, by british muslims, hindus, etc..

Go to australis you wouldnt see that, how many mosques, or synangogues are there in sudney for e.g, i can bet you there is more in my home town than all of the city.
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  #22  
Old October 26, 2005, 04:29 PM
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pagol-chagol pagol-chagol is offline
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Isn't Piggy bank a good thing. It means that the pig is whole and hasn't been eaten yet. Therefore a haram hasn't been committed. Now, if it was a bacon bank or pepparoni bank than I would have been offended.

Now on more serious note -
This idea seems to have come out from the right wing think tank to make people look at Muslim's as demanding and wierd. You'll hear the right wing echo chamber repeat this all over the AM dial.
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  #23  
Old October 26, 2005, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by PoorFan
Quote:
Wine or alcohol is the mother of all evil. Once you consume and get drunk you can do any evil that is possible.
Yes, there is a possibility. All those human doing evil things are not drunk, wine or alcohol is not the fundamental reason I think. Rest of the world would have full of evil things / people if it's really works that way.
You didn't get my point. Ofcourse there are people who do evil without being drunk. Wine and alcohol is not the primary reason for them to commit the crimes. But those who are sane and normally wouldn't commit those evil (to the extent oppose those evil deeds), can easily do it when they are drunk. That is why alcohol is the mother of all evil.
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  #24  
Old October 26, 2005, 06:28 PM
fab fab is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Huda
i guess u havent been to england.

The european story is different. The U.K has huge repsect for different religions, we have faith schools, for the variosu different religions, many parts of country have been taken by muslims that they dont even complain for e.g bradford, brick lane, burnley. the shops in these ares are run , bought, by british muslims, hindus, etc..

Go to australis you wouldnt see that, how many mosques, or synangogues are there in sudney for e.g, i can bet you there is more in my home town than all of the city.
I have been to England a couple of times.

Why is it that certain parts of England are 'taken over" by certain homogenous groups? It's because of lack of integration. These groups prefer to interact with their own kind because of the dearth of tolerance of most of the natives.

The last time I went to England they had this show on one of the BBC channels that was explaining the postive impact Indians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis have made in the UK. The gist of the programme was to convey that Indians gave them GPs and after hours convenience stores, Pakistanis gave them labourers when there was a critical shortage, and Bangladeshis gave them curry. It is amazing that even after 50s years of immigration (and long after Powell's Rivers of Blood speech) such programmes still need to be aired!

Certainly goverment groups are trying the best they can to promote harmony, but they are sometimes overzealous and misguided and cases like the lead post is just a manifestation of it.

Anyhow, it's not just about piggy-banks, it's also about other things like Christmas festivities, flags, crucifixes etc. It just makes us look really petty and intolerant.
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  #25  
Old October 27, 2005, 01:38 AM
Huda Huda is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by fab
[Anyhow, it's not just about piggy-banks, it's also about other things like Christmas festivities, flags, crucifixes etc. It just makes us look really petty and intolerant.
bannign all that is basically called a secular state, britian hasnt and isnt. france is
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