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  #1  
Old April 17, 2006, 02:31 AM
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Default Ponting Disciplinary Hearing: Match Referee Supports Ponting

Neither Umpire charged Ricky Ponting for the Aftab Ahmed Incident. Even the match referee think Ricky did not do anything wrong!! Ricky Ponting will face disciplinary hearing, only because Bangladesh Team Management filed complained against him. There will be no action from the Umpires or the Match Referee !!

Cricinfo Report Says:
Jeff Crowe, the match referee, said that it was understood that Ponting never asked for another referral and added that neither umpire charged him with the incident. "I understand from the umpires Ricky Ponting never said 'You should go up to the third umpire and do it again'," Crowe was quoted as saying by Fox Sports. "I think he indicated that the word that came from the Bangladesh dressing-room was that he was out and he was just inquisitive as to what went on. But it was not a direct ask that the umpires should review the decision or go upstairs.
"It was a communication problem really," said Crowe. "In fairness, what we had to say that with the referral upstairs, it should have been highlighted what they really wanted. The number three umpire [...] is not the most fluent in English, although he is a very good man and does communicate well, he wasn't sure really about what they wanted at that point.

"That's why after what was done, when the decision was first given, the umpires down below weren't sure he got the right information, or understood what was required. Once they found that information out - that the ball had hit the boot - that's all they needed to confirm what they thought. That's why it was reversed."


Even if Ponting had indeed asked for a referral, he was probably within the rules to do so. Law 27.5 states that: When a batsman has been given Not out, either umpire may, within his jurisdiction, answer a further appeal ...
Source: Cricinfo Report
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Old April 17, 2006, 03:18 AM
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i know nothing will happen to ponting. he will walk away without any punishment
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  #3  
Old April 17, 2006, 03:22 AM
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Is not it expected? After all white people are GOD to ICC. If any brown do it he might have banned for life.
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Old April 17, 2006, 03:22 AM
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I am not surprised at all at the stance of the match referee. He is from Newzealand and will support the aussies mighty approach. ICC will be also lenient to take any necessary action.

At the end of the day nothing will happen officially but everybody realetd with cricket ( like Gavaskar, Wasim, Micky Artur and others...) are really concerned with the happening.
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Old April 17, 2006, 03:34 AM
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We all saw Ponting incited the umpire to refer back to the 3rd umpire despite the decision was already given. It didn't seem anything like an appeal, more like a aggravation. Aussies have ganged up against the spineless umpires and I'm not surprised to see them get away with it.
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Old April 17, 2006, 04:04 AM
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Can we ask ICC to appoint Clive Loid as match referee whenever we play against aussi, new zealand, england and south africa
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  #7  
Old April 17, 2006, 06:52 AM
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This is how The Australian is reporting the Ponting affair. The thola baton charge attracted more column inches.

Bangladesh's credibility as a Test host was further undermined when its local television umpire took around seven minutes to adjudicate on an appeal, and his decision was ultimately overturned when an agitated Ricky Ponting confronted on-field officials.

The full article appears below:

Andrew Ramsey
April 17, 2006

AUSTRALIA's security concerns before its historic first tour of Bangladesh proved well-founded as the second Test in Chittagong was interrupted by running battles between armed police and disgruntled media representatives yesterday.

At the height of the battle during yesterday's lunch break, there was growing concern in the Australian dressing room as around 30 journalists stormed the playing field and charged up the pavilion stairs towards the players' compound.
It followed an ugly fracas between local press and police who handed out some disgracefully heavy-handed punishment using fists, heavy boots, bamboo clubs and rifle butts.
It also prompted fears that the volatile crowd might attack the pitch or other facilities at the venue in the poverty-stricken port city.
But even though order was eventually restored and play resumed 15 minutes after the scheduled resumption from lunch, the future of Chittagong as a Test venue must be in doubt.
Bangladesh's credibility as a Test host was further undermined when its local television umpire took around seven minutes to adjudicate on an appeal, and his decision was ultimately overturned when an agitated Ricky Ponting confronted on-field officials.
Yesterday's lunchtime confrontation could be partly attributed to the heavy security presence that has accompanied the Australians since they arrived in Bangladesh 10 days ago.
The press corps became incensed at the treatment meted out by one of the rifle-wielding police guarding the stadium entrance, where a senior Bangladeshi photographer was accosted, thrown to the ground, kicked and beaten for using the wrong gate.
To show concern for their long-serving and duly-accredited colleague, many in the Bangladeshi press corps staged a sit-in near the pitch before play began which delayed the start of the match by 10 minutes.
But the dispute turned ugly during lunch when agitated members of the media confronted police authorities and demanded the offending officer be removed and a formal apology issued. When that was declined the ugly clash ensued, and then the Bangladeshi press corps voted en masse to boycott the remainder of the Test match.
The home team's top-order batsmen showed a similar reluctance to hang around on a pitch that was so bare and dry that Australia opted to play three specialist spinners.
Off-spinner Dan Cullen was included for his Test debut at the expense of Stuart Clark, with the selectors deciding that Jason Gillespie provided a better new-ball option in the harsh conditions.
That assessment proved difficult to fault in the shortened first session as Gillespie bowled immaculately to claim the first three Bangladesh wickets.
His first scalp was fortunate, as first Test century-maker Shahriar Nafees top-edged an attempted leg-side flick that carried to the fine leg boundary.
But his dismissal of captain Habibul Bashar (who sliced a sharp chance to point) and opener Javed Omar (trapped lbw playing across the line) were the result of accurate bowling and well-formulated plans.
When Shane Warne claimed the wicket of Mohammad Ashraful, who guided a leg break into the hands of Matthew Hayden at slip, Bangladesh was in familiar territory at 4-41.
As was the case in both innings of the first Test in Dhaka last week, obstinate right-hander Rajin Saleh held out and fashioned an enterprising 61-run stand with Aftab Ahmed before another another embarrassing episode for Bangladesh cricket.
Aftab appeared to squeeze an attempted drive off Warne into his left foot, and the ball bobbed up in the air from where it was collected by Adam Gilchrist running from behind the stumps.
Unsure as to whether the ball had made contact with the ground as well as the bastman's boot, South African umpire Ian Howell conferred with his Pakistani colleague, Aleem Dar, and the matter was referred to the third umpire.
Bangladeshi television referee Mahbubur Rahman pondered the available evidence for five minutes before ruling in Aftab's favour, seemingly because he was unsure if the batsman had edged the ball or not as replays showed it clearly hitting his foot.
Once the green light flashed, Ponting confronted Howell who then re-established contact with the beleaguered third umpire.
A further two-minute delay ensued by which time Aftab trudged off amid high farce and confusion.
Cullen, who had to wait until the 46th over before he was brought into the attack, became the 21st player used across 12 Test matches by Australia since the completion of last year's unsuccessful Ashes campaign.
The Australians were forced to make another change for this Test, with Damien Martyn aggravating an elbow tendon problem he sustained while making his match-winning century in Johannesburg a fortnight ago. He was replaced by Phil Jaques who will open, with Michael Hussey to move down to No.4.



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  #8  
Old April 17, 2006, 06:58 AM
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'It also prompted fears that the volatile crowd might attack the pitch or other facilities at the venue in the poverty-stricken port city. '

A very unacceptable comment from The Australian, yesterdays police brutality really tempted them to use such harsh language. Feeling disgusted.
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  #9  
Old April 17, 2006, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sovik
Can we ask ICC to appoint Clive Loid as match referee whenever we play against aussi, new zealand, england and south africa
What makes you think Lloyd will be any better ? Before Dalmiya manoeuvred Bangladesh's inclusion, the West Indies board repeatedly sided with the Anglophile bloc.

Bangladesh's inclusion as a full member was important as it forever changed the balance of power.

Apart from Indians and Pakistanis , no one will stand upto the Anglophile bloc - not even Sri Lankan's.

I have another point to make. Never appeal unless you have a dead certain outcome. We made a big mistake here. It was a typical emotional Bangalee knee jerk reaction - not well thought out. Crowe will simply kick it to touch. The Kiwis know how to play rugby !

It is a basic rule of jurisprudence that the plaintiff must come with clean hands. Most people, including many at banglacricket.com , think that Aftab was out.

Last edited by Imtiazk; April 17, 2006 at 07:18 AM..
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  #10  
Old April 17, 2006, 07:14 AM
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We don't need any Pro-BD match referee but someone strict, unbiased and straight-forward who follows rules made by the ICC not Ricky Ponting.
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  #11  
Old April 17, 2006, 09:37 AM
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Jeff Crowe fined Ponting 25% of his match fee.

What I don't understand is if Ponting was guilty of influencing the umpires to change their decisions, then what happens to to the dismissal of Aftab? Was he out, or not out?
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  #12  
Old April 17, 2006, 10:24 AM
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Umpires decision is final, atleast that what I thought all these years. but arrogant ponting could not accept that and wanted his beloved drug addict warne to get another cheap wicket. So he charged towards Howell (umpire). So much so that howell back paddled to keep a safe distance. Now tell me who was aggressive on the ground? The Media people or A. Ponting? (I am going replace Ricky with Arrogant)

I strongly suggest to the BC members, when you guys finish college and everything first thing you do is own a daily newspaper. I will supply articles there for free in favor of A. Ponting.
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  #13  
Old April 17, 2006, 10:56 AM
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why not write here? i'm sure it'll come up in the newspapers later in the week.
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  #14  
Old April 17, 2006, 12:24 PM
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the reports are quite contradictory. according to skysports the match referee "jeff crowe found ponting guilty of breaching the professional code of conduct and he has been fined 25% match fee for dessent against an umpiring decision".

Last edited by Sorry; April 17, 2006 at 02:23 PM..
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  #15  
Old April 17, 2006, 12:32 PM
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are u freaking serious. this guy shld be punished severely.
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  #16  
Old April 17, 2006, 12:42 PM
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Guys cricinfo reports that Ponting has been fined 25% of his match fee. I guess that's a victory. But BD team should take lesson from this. Specially Basher as the captain. That don't take any s@@t from the oppisation. show some guts on the field. Act as if you are the MAN! and on more accousation than not, you will get your way. Being fined is not the point. He showed guts, stood up for this team, to me sometime being the bad guy is actually good. Does any one disagree with my comments?
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  #17  
Old April 17, 2006, 02:06 PM
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I look at the incident from Aftabs point of view. Poor guy had his heart pounding for 5 mins waiting for the decision then he was relieved to get the signal not out and was celebrating with Rajin. Umpires were clearly going back to their places to carry on with the game then ponting goes to the umpire and starts arguing, umpire calls third umpire again and shows Aftab the finger to go back to the pavilion. Now thats unfair. Playing with his emotions. If I were Aftab, I'd sue the umpires and ICC. Such a thing can ruin Aftabs whole career. He was playing so well now if he cant score in second innings maybe he'll be dropped from the test team.

I think the field umpire is saving his own *** here. It was clear from TV replays that he was going back to his place, Ponting approaches him and questions the decision and he obliged and calls back to the third umpire. If the umpire had told this fact to the match referee his own reputation will be hampered in ICC. He avoided it by simply reporting to match referee that Ponting was not questioning third umires dicision. Everyones happy accept Aftab.

Yes, I'm still mad about it.

Last edited by ManInBlack; April 17, 2006 at 02:17 PM..
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Old April 17, 2006, 02:08 PM
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I think the Match Referee dumping the issue on Mahbub who is not smart enough to stand up against it

There ball clearly came off the bat—there was no question about that.
The catch was clearly taken- there was no question about that too.
The only question involved-whether the ball bounced on the ground.
Even if Mahbub misunderstood what was really asked for (this means he was not checking whether the ball bounced on the ground) - his answer would have been OUT because the ball was hit by bat and the catch was clearly taken. Instead Mahbub gave NOT OUT which indicates he clearly considered the right issue and found the video evidence of the incident inconclusive.


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Old April 17, 2006, 02:14 PM
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Now we are getting into deeper troubled waters.

According to Cricinfo:

Ponting was found guilty of dissent by the match referee, Jeff Crowe, in a hearing after the second day's play on Monday. He was found to have breached 1.3 of the ICC Code which relates to "Showing dissent at an umpire's decision by action or verbal abuse."

In explaining his decision, Crowe said: "Although I have sympathy for Ricky I cannot accept his move towards the on-field umpires as they made a move towards resuming play.
"He did not ask for the third umpire to be consulted but when he made that move and spoke to the officials I believe his involvement played a part in prompting the referral. That is a breach of the ICC's Test match playing conditions, which states that players may not appeal to the umpire to use the replay system."

What the hell is Crowe upto:

1. He [ Ponting ] showed dissent at an umpire's decision by action [ I am assuming no verbal abuse was involved ] - that is official

2. Despite his "sympathy" , Crowe could not accept his "move" towards the umpires as they moved to resume play [ i.e. after giving Aftab not out presumably ]

3. Crowe says Ponting did not ask for a referral but his "involvement" prompted the referral.

So who took the decision to refer ? Howell, presumably [ since, he had accepted Rahman's decision earlier ]

If you take Crowe's words literally , Ponting is being fined because Howell referred the matter the second time [ since Ponting did not ask for a referral ]. In other words, Ponting is paying 25% of his match fees because his involvement led Howell to make a mistake.

Howell is an "elite" umpire, by the way.

Crowe has got into this muddle because he is having to protect three persons:

Rahman, Ponting and Howell. And you cannot square a circle.

Last edited by Imtiazk; April 17, 2006 at 02:32 PM..
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Old April 17, 2006, 03:06 PM
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Aftab was definately OUT. I watched the match live and 5-6 replays.
For BCB to appeal against Ponting seems more like a way to redeem the 1st inning batting failure. Both umpires did not file any complaints and if Aftab were not out then I would have understood the move by BCB.
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Old April 17, 2006, 03:11 PM
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This incedent reminds me of the times when ICC begun its war against Players involved with Bookies ... while Jadeja, Azhar and many more cricketers received lifetime ban from cricket for thier slightest involvement with bookies, Warne just received a small punishment and that was from Cricket Australia who knew of the incedent but did not disclose it until it was leaked into the media by someone .....

It seems Aussies are the USA of cricket ... regular rules, agreements etc. do not apply to them.

By the way ... I believe Aftab was out .... but cannot agree with the way he was given out simply because it was against the rule. If Bashar did the same as what ponting did .... ICC would make his life hell with hearings after hearings and heavy punishment ... we all know that .. we have all seen that.
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Old April 17, 2006, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DotBall
Aftab was definately OUT. I watched the match live and 5-6 replays.
For BCB to appeal against Ponting seems more like a way to redeem the 1st inning batting failure. Both umpires did not file any complaints and if Aftab were not out then I would have understood the move by BCB.
Did you see anyone saying Aftab is NOT OUT?
The Decision was right or wrong...that was not the issue here.
The manner applied to get the decision is the point of all controversies.
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Old April 17, 2006, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DotBall
Aftab was definately OUT. I watched the match live and 5-6 replays.
For BCB to appeal against Ponting seems more like a way to redeem the 1st inning batting failure. Both umpires did not file any complaints and if Aftab were not out then I would have understood the move by BCB.
DotBall, you're missing the whole point here. We all know tht Aftab was definitely out. But the way he was given out was wrong. Umpires make mistakes. Its part of the game. And the law is that every player shud accept umpires decision no matter what. But ponting was talking to the umpire bout the decision and eventually made him to review it and got it in favour. Now this is wrong. No cricket lover, no matter which country hes from wud not like to see such incident happen again. Thats the reason BSB did the right thing by lodging the appeal against Ponting.
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Old April 17, 2006, 04:39 PM
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Match Referee's verdict sounds like a joke. "Guru pape loghu dondo." In the past, some match referee had given stricter punishment for just the involved player's body language hinted disagreement with the umprire. Is it not a double standard? The umpires should have been punished as they did not report the incident. Last but not the least, should there be someone to oversee the match referee as well:-)
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Old April 17, 2006, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DotBall
Aftab was definately OUT. I watched the match live and 5-6 replays.
For BCB to appeal against Ponting seems more like a way to redeem the 1st inning batting failure. Both umpires did not file any complaints and if Aftab were not out then I would have understood the move by BCB.
Aftab was definitely out but this is not the concern. Once decision is made (wrong decision I agree), no one can challenge that. Its a clear breach of ICC playing condition and code of conduct. Ponting did that and there lies all the controversary.

Ponting fined only 25%, if the same was done by any sub-continent player, he would have been banned for 2 tests or 5 ODI's.

BCB did the very right thing, it has taken a clear stance to support the spirit of cricket and fair play.
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