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FIFA World Cup Soccer 2006 (Archive) Biggest sporting event in the world. This is time for the sky high excitement.

 
 
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  #26  
Old July 11, 2006, 09:42 AM
Ejaj Ejaj is offline
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This is quite rediculous have arguments on the basis of someting which hadnt been proved yet. Racisim or calling his mother......... are all pure guesses.. None has been proved yet.. Zidane didnt disclose anyting, Matrz didnt say aynting either.. why are u guys fightingh over who is the victim?. Its better not to make any sweepign statement.
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  #27  
Old July 11, 2006, 09:48 AM
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1. Materazzi is a victim because he was in the receiving end of an assult. Had it been on the street with witness around Zidane would be in custody or having to bail himself out.

2. There are 100s of games each year that have players using unwanted choice of words. So FIFA is going to investigate one match and not the others? That is double standard and in court that does not stand a ground. FIFA has to investigate all games that has "he said, she said" alligations.

3. Racism is never right, on the field, this has been going on for ages, in every league. Until FIFA takes necessary steps (inclusion of technology), this will continue. Nothing we can do about it until that happens.

4. In sports we all know verbal battle is a test of mental strength. Things are said which is not meant. If someone slurs about an ill mother who is in hospital then he/she need to take appropriate action. Not take up law into his/her own hand. Even in real life we should not lose our cool. If you do that you can not be a plaintiff, you will become a defendant. The consequence of being defendant is not good.

That should answer all your questions.
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  #28  
Old July 11, 2006, 09:51 AM
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im starting to believe that Zidane's action was deliberate and not a result of moment of madness..
after all, why would a highly professional player of his calibe would act such a way and go out of the game disgracefully.

Here is my theory:

After receiving racial slur and being abused based on his religion and background for years and years over his career, he thought its time to act on it and send the whole world a message to think over before he leaves.

He knew exactly what is going to happen if he head-butts Materazzi on such a crucial moment of the game.He will get a redcard and that would create a huge uproar on the world media. There will be countless discussion and relentless media analysis behind such an action.As already, some British newspaper has already hired lip readers and revealed to us that it was a racial slur and something about his ill mother.

Now, FIFA has been crying foul over this race issue for few years now and is putting up big shows like speeches by the captains in wc games to clear up their name and showing the whole world that they care. But do they ?

Now, Zidane was playing his last professional match. He could not give a rat's back if he is being send away. He have already won the world cup once and irrespective of the outcome of that match, he would still be a hero to the French.

If he really wanted to injure Materazzi, he could hv just banged him on his nose, leave him a bleading face. No he didnt do that. He just butt-headed on his chest.

Still shamefull, still disgraced. But i belive he could not care bout his own personal glory anymore but take on a bigger issue corrupting the game itself, racism. I am no Zidane supporter, but i dont think u become such a great player being a stupid.

Hope FIFA is being dragged to investigate into the matter by some huge media and public pressure and the real issue would be addressed and looked after (ie racism).

IF it is so, that was not a moment of madness, but an act of genius.
IF that is the case, HAIL to Zidane.

Otherwise, i cant possible figure out why would Zidane do such a thing...
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  #29  
Old July 11, 2006, 09:52 AM
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First off, nobody is going to be criminally prosecuted for this. Things like this happen in sports.

Cats_Eye, nobody is condoning Zidane's actions. Pretty much everyone agrees that he deserved the red card. However, it's the route that is controversial. Your point about Zidane not being a saint is also valid. But neither is Materazzi.

Only a fool will believe that Zidane's headbutt was unprovoked. So far all the sources and reports suggest that a disgusting racially abusive slur caused this event. If these insults really did happen (which, btw, is highly likely), that would make Materazzi more of a villan and Zidane will deservedly gain more sympathy. Granted that Zidane's got a hot temper, but then the Italians also have a reputation of playing dirty. Like Miraz said, Zidane is no sage here, but neither is Matterazzi. He is far from innocent. Since you brought up the issue of track record, let me show you a video that will educate you a little more about the mighty Matterazzi.




ps: Cats_Eye, I don't think our difference of opinion warrants a need for either of us to "grow up". Everyone here is discussing this with admirable civility.
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  #30  
Old July 11, 2006, 09:59 AM
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Just read through all the postings. Interesting, how no one is saying how it al started. Yes, in the end it was the headbutt, after Materazzi said something (probably bery bad). But if you see the video and go back a few seconds, it was Zidane who was saying something to him. And, why is no one asking what Zidane said that provoked Materazzi to say those "unspeakables"?

In many professional football game, they deliberately use verbal abuse to distract players (football's version of "sledging" by the Aussies). I do not support that, but it happens. And Zidane is a 35 year old, who has definitely experienced it, and used it himself before. After that, if he cannot keep his cool in his career's final match - it is sheer idiotic behavior.

I regard Zidane as a great player. But he is never admired for his people skills. Whatever Materazzi said to him, and whatever he said to Materazzi to provoke him to say those things - he, being Zidane, being the next Nepoleon of France, should have kept his cool. The red card was rightly served.
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  #31  
Old July 11, 2006, 10:03 AM
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C_B,
Could you please point out a single time that called him close to a saint.

Provoking Zidane could be Italian strategy who knows. They were team mates at Juventus for crying out loud. They know each other very well. Zidane should be use to slurs of this sort by now. I don't need any video to know who is saint or not. I saw the replays of what happened in the field. My views are centered on the incident.
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  #32  
Old July 11, 2006, 10:11 AM
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Sure. Centering the views on the incident would be ideal. I merely attempted to level the playing fields seeing you felt the need to bring up Zidane's past record. A taste of own medicine hurts, I see.

I am not on a mission to prove Zidane innocent, nor am I an apologist on his behalf. I, along with millions of football fans, am simply appalled by what triggered this fiasco - something you are willfully being oblivious to. Getting on his nerves to unsettle him is an acceptable ploy. A little sledging or pestering is fine. But racial abuse like that is simply unacceptable, especially at the sport's highest level. I won't be surprised if all these supposed rumours turn out to be true, especially after reading earlier today that the victorious Italian team was greeted home this week by a senator who was overjoyed at his team's triumph over a team that consisted of "blacks, muslims and communists".

Alright, point made.
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  #33  
Old July 11, 2006, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judhishthir
Just read through all the postings. Interesting, how no one is saying how it al started. Yes, in the end it was the headbutt, after Materazzi said something (probably bery bad). But if you see the video and go back a few seconds, it was Zidane who was saying something to him. And, why is no one asking what Zidane said that provoked Materazzi to say those "unspeakables"?
Materazzi was holding Zidane's shirt and Zidane said "If you want my shirt you can have it after the game". Source : BBC, Sky Sports, Daily Mail.
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  #34  
Old July 11, 2006, 10:14 AM
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Cats eye bhai,
in your post there is answer. Zidane is serial offender. Italian are quite famous for dirty play or winning by hook or crook. Otherwise how could you explain two major match fixing scandal within 30 yrs. Even in this WC italian TV provided footage so that Fringe can not play againest Italy, while the victime was quite unaware of the attempted attack. May be even that one is also computer simulated.But back to the point, Italian tried to exploit the hot temparement of Zizu. May be they have tounted him for the 110 minutes before they get the result. So hail to them. I am willing to put a bet on England- Italy match that Roony would be send off.
I know you are quite angry with Zidane, since Zidane knock out Brazil not once but twice in WC. So chill down because your arguments is making no sense to me, quite unlike you.
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  #35  
Old July 11, 2006, 10:24 AM
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Materazzi is well known for his dirty acts and tricks,

In a single season with Everton Materazzi managed to clock up three red cards and 12 yellows. Materazzi was captured on camera viciously elbowing Juan Pablo Sorin of Villarreal in a Champions League clash last season.

From his interview with Italian newspaper,


"I held his shirt, for only a few seconds," said Materazzi, who had scored Italy's equaliser after Zidane put France ahead from the penalty spot.
"He turned towards me and scoffed at me, looking at me with super arrogance, up and down.
"He said 'if you really want my shirt, you can have it later.' "It's true, I shot back with an insult."

Now FIFA is investigating what really happened. I hope FIFA find out the truth. I agree with Keith Hackett, head of referees in England, who said that if it can be proved that Matterazzi racially abused Zidane, then Fifa should take retrospective action for "the good of the game".
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  #36  
Old July 11, 2006, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ejaj
How do u know that Matz used racial abuse or calling Zidane's mother?.. Nobody yet knows about this for sure and u are already making sweeping statement. U might wait few more weeks before concluding ur statement on racial abuse. Yes, i agree that there had been some racial abuse going on in eurpean football.. but, the incident that happend, hadnt been proved at all for such case. Even Zidane's isnt telling anyting to anyone about it. It could be someting very silly and he just probably over reacted. That could be the reason why Zizu is silent about it yet.

Well, i think its good for football that Ref did indeed consult 4th or 10th official. whoever, to find out what realyl happend. Zidane did commit crime and he shouldnt get away with that. Thats as simple as bright sunlight. If u r cricizing Ref for doing sometingh right, then, I dont have anyting else to tell u. And, regarding ref authority, u might look into Fifa site to know a bit details about it. This is the reason that All the ref's were given wireless communication device so that they can consult to officials, if they have missed someting . This was definteily a good decision and things like this should happen more often. It will decrese many crimes that happen on the field.

Btw, I do understand the difference between football and cricket...
I know ref made the correct decision. But I wonder, why suddenly 4th/5th officials become active after silent for whole W/C. Accordingly Carte Blance he could not intervene. If rules are modified then I have question why they did not intervane

1) Argies goal againest Ivory Coast ( wrong one counted, right one discounted)
2) Swiss goal againest Korea
2) Argies goal againest Mexico in regulartime
3) Heinz foul againest Mexico
4) Italian dive againest Australia
5) One of the Brazil's goal againest Ghana
7) Numerous wrong call againest arg in Germany macth.

If 4th official did not intervane those, why he intervane this. This is simple double standard. By the way, I am not implying Zidane should be spared because of technicality; what I am implying is the rule should be applied to all. It seems that rules are now benefitting to the bigger team and european teams. Twice benefitted Italy who are quite famous for manipulating officials
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  #37  
Old July 11, 2006, 10:40 AM
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The more I read the more I get the feeling that people are sympathetic to Zidane, and he is a semi-saint even after the acts he performed. All along even before the tournament started I mentioned in other threads Zidane may be a great player but a dirty player. He had to prove me right.

I wanted to change the perception. I guess there are things I can't change. So I have relayed my message. It is up to you guys to see the facts.

C_B,
"Getting on his nerves to unsettle him is an acceptable ploy." That's in every sport don't you agree?

"But racial abuse like that is simply unacceptable, especially at the sport's highest level." But assults are acceptable? Which one worse? assult or racial comment?

Ah!! Italian senetors!! Should we dig into what french Priminister said and did for muslims brothers and sisters in France and boznia?

We can argue all day but I don't think we can convince one another.
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  #38  
Old July 11, 2006, 10:41 AM
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eshob double standard/single standard kore kono labh nai. people here are arguing that the 4th referee might not have seen it live, and that in that case - going by the rule book - zidane cannot be penalized. arey bhai, matha diya guta maira shuway dise...er por abar rule book dekhay...he deserves to be punished.

similarly, one might argue that matterazi cannot be punished either since racial slurs are not uncommon on sports grounds, and that ebhabe dhorte gele prottek matchei ekta/duita re laal card dekhate hobe...but that again would be like saying zidane should be let free because the referee didn't see it. IF matterazi DID indeed say something racial, then he should be punished too. racism is a serious offense and although it is impossible to penalize each and every little incident, FIFA should do the best it can.

ek haate tali baje na - dosh 2 joneri ase. zidane deserves to be punished, and so does Matterazi, IF AND ONLY IF the rumours about a racist remark are true.
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  #39  
Old July 11, 2006, 10:58 AM
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Cats_Eye:
There is a difference between an unsportsmanlike conduct and an assault. What Todd Bertuzzi did to Steve Moore was an assault. He was kicked out, his salary was forfeited, and he faces lawsuits and damage charges. What Zidane did, was a shameful display of temper. It deserved a red card. He was handed so. He accept it without dissent and left. Justice served.

Or is it? That is just one half of the story. Zidane got what he deserved (despite the controversy surrounding the replays). But did Matterazzi get what he deserved? If the allegations are true, FIFA must take harsh and exemplary measures. We are talking of moral justice here, hopefully more. It beats me why you are being blind towards his provocation, which I'll admit requires confirmation. But common sense and dozens of media reports tell us that his provocation was in extremely poor taste and should not be tolerated at the sport. Comprende?

As for taunting, if Freddie calls Langer a wanker, it's no big deal. When Lehmann racially insults Ranatunga, it is NOT acceptable. In fact he was banned for 5 matches. I'm sure you are intelligent enough to decide on Zidane's case.
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  #40  
Old July 11, 2006, 11:17 AM
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Zidane deserved his punishment. It was stupid from his part to react like that in his most important game of the career. Sledging happens all the time in sports. You gotta deal with it. Cricket e bat korte namle koto ma bap tule gali dey.
  #41  
Old July 11, 2006, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AsifTheManRahman
eshob double standard/single standard kore kono labh nai. people here are arguing that the 4th referee might not have seen it live, and that in that case - going by the rule book - zidane cannot be penalized. arey bhai, matha diya guta maira shuway dise...er por abar rule book dekhay...he deserves to be punished.

similarly, one might argue that matterazi cannot be punished either since racial slurs are not uncommon on sports grounds, and that ebhabe dhorte gele prottek matchei ekta/duita re laal card dekhate hobe...but that again would be like saying zidane should be let free because the referee didn't see it. IF matterazi DID indeed say something racial, then he should be punished too. racism is a serious offense and although it is impossible to penalize each and every little incident, FIFA should do the best it can.

ek haate tali baje na - dosh 2 joneri ase. zidane deserves to be punished, and so does Matterazi, IF AND ONLY IF the rumours about a racist remark are true.
and if bbc is right about what matto said then it was not even one race he was attacking he was attacking all, as Muslims are there on every race, thus it is way more serious offense than racism.

Italy deserves better player than matto, if FIFA does nothing then Italy should ban him themselves, there are so much more players in Italy so it would not bother them.
  #42  
Old July 11, 2006, 11:31 AM
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The "Shameful display of temper" would book him if this was in the streets with witnesses around as an assault. Doesn't matter what provoked him. With the viciousness it could be aggrevated assault or even battery since bodily contact was made. Doesn't matter who you are. Zidane, Mike Tyson, state senator anyone.

If FIFA do the investigation properly and Materazzi (knowing the saint he is) lies ( I think he did slur racial comments), then it would be a "he said, she said" thing. That takes you no where. Muddy waters getting muddier.

Why I am blind to the provocation:
Cause I did the taunting and received the same in Basketball and Football which I took as a part of the game in States. After the game we did not carry over what was said in the field. If someone says something to you, you reply back you don't use force. As long as it doesn't say, "I will kill you or I will rape you." That is a clear threat and you can defend that in court.
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Last edited by Tigers_eye; July 11, 2006 at 11:55 AM..
  #43  
Old July 11, 2006, 11:54 AM
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For the 12345932164932476023749236402653th time, Zidane was punished for it. He got the red card, and witnessed an end to his own career with a head hung in shame. A disgraceful end to an otherwise stellar career. What more could you ask for? Blood?

By your logic of criminalization, Materazzi would not be playing the world cup. He'd be busy serving sentences for his "assaults" in a Naples pentientiary. I wonder where that would send Rooney though. Perhaps Australia in harmony with the colonial past? By your logic, Ice Hockey would be defunct today.

It is almost as though you have something personal against him. Whatever it is, I think I will cease to counter your phantom point and let you have the last laugh (in true Italian style).

Let us just hope we get to know the truth once/when Zidane breaks his silence and justice is served allround. Such incidents are very undesirable and we'd rather be arguing over tactical matters than scandals.
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  #44  
Old July 11, 2006, 12:29 PM
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Great point C_B.
Why FIFA has not launched an investigation on Rooney's expulsion? He must have been provoked also. Noone kicks on the groin for no reason. There are hundreds of incident like that. One provoking other. May it be racial comment or comments on their mother-sister etc all are unexceptable in civilized world. Unless, FIFA is truely serious, and investigate all racial allegations they should leave this issue on the field. Not one game just because Zidane got the red card.
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  #45  
Old July 11, 2006, 12:36 PM
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zidane got puninshed for wat he did, now its matterazi's turn.
wat surprises me, is that CTV, CBC is givin so much attention to this. they hardly care abt soccer.

mod.content: That is uncalled for. We all have the right to disagree. Please be more appreciative and tolerant of opposing views. C.E. is an esteemed member of our forum and no matter how greatly you disagree with him, he has been presenting his points politely. Please respect that. - C.B.
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  #46  
Old July 11, 2006, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bancan
if he is blind let him be. ekta kotha ase naa, ...... [edited] u cant convince him. he obiously got something against zidane.
I would prefer you not say things like that. This is not how civilized people discuss. Have a nice day.
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Last edited by Tigers_eye; July 11, 2006 at 01:46 PM..
  #47  
Old July 11, 2006, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cats_eye
Great point C_B.
Why FIFA has not launched an investigation on Rooney's expulsion? He must have been provoked also. Noone kicks on the groin for no reason. There are hundreds of incident like that. One provoking other. May it be racial comment or comments on their mother-sister etc all are unexceptable in civilized world. Unless, FIFA is truely serious, and investigate all racial allegations they should leave this issue on the field. Not one game just because Zidane got the red card.
We agree completely, my friend. Here's a toast of Rooh Afza
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  #48  
Old July 11, 2006, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carte Blanche
We agree completely, my friend. Here's a toast of Rooh Afza
Now I afraid to play 1 minute chess with you. how about a bridge game? you can be my partner.
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  #49  
Old July 11, 2006, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cats_eye
Now I afraid to play 1 minute chess with you. how about a bridge game? you can be my partner.
As long as there's no money involved. Otherwise you'll be losing a fortune. Btw, I got some bridge tutorials the other day. So who knows, someday I will be pretty good at it.
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  #50  
Old July 11, 2006, 12:46 PM
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If Materazzi did use a racial slur then FIFA will do something about it, in keeping with the theme of the Cup. I don't understand why Zidane kept quiet? Found him weird at times- certainly not in the mould of a Pele or Beckenbauer..
 

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