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  #1  
Old August 19, 2006, 08:15 AM
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Default The Myth of Khaled Mashud in Numbers: Part One

We have several myths about Khaled Masud Pilot and his fans repeats them several times in any discussion regarding his position in the playing XI.

Let's list the arguments first ..
1. Khaled Mashud is best wicketkeeper in Asia.
2. Khaled Mashud puts value to his wicket & he is a fighter.
3. He is a collapse stopper
4. He imparts stability to fragile BD batting order.
5. We need him and without him (if mushfiq playes or anyone replaces him) we will all out within 25-35 overs.
And lets see how these myths go..

At first let's see the career statistcis of Khaled Mashud

Batting and fielding averages
classmatinnsnorunshsavebfsr100504s6sctst
Tests417991361103*19.44397034.28131451758
ODIs12010726177771*21.93322055.18078732


1. Khaled Mashud is best wicketkeeper in Asia.
Now, what is the criteria for the best wicketkeeper, I assume no of dismissals (as one of his fan recently started a thread regarding his 2nd place in 2006 based on number of dismissals). From the career stats it can be seen
Khaled Mashud has total 83 dismissals in tests and 119 dismissals in ODI. In tests he has 2.075 dismissals per test and in ODI he grabbed 0.99 dismissal in ODI. Is this a record of the best wicket keeper of Asia who doesn't even have 1 dismissal per ODI? Now let's compare him with Sngakkara who is undoubtedly a very good wicketkeeper and should be the main competitor for Pilot.

Sangakkara has 144 dismissal in 47 test played as keeper, which means 2.61/test and 172 dismissal from 130 ODI'splayed as keeper, i.e 1.32 dismissal/ODI. From the stat it is clear that he is no way near to Sangakkara in terms of Wicketkeepinng ability forget batting. I have taken also a look at no. of byes conceded by them, in a randomly selected 5 tests KM conceded 5.4 byes/innings wihile Sanggakara conceded only 1.2 byes/test. Surprise surprise KM has even worse record as a wicketkeeper when I compared him with Kamran Akmal who is not at all considered as a supreme wicketkeeper. Kamran has 3.88 dismissal/test. So KM is the best wicketkeeper of Asia is simply a myth. He is defnitely the best wicketkeeper of Bangladesh till date.

2. Khaled Mashud puts value to his wicket and he is a fighter
3. Khaled Mashud is a collapse stopper.
3. He imparts stabilty to fragile BD batting order.
The first part is probably true as KM always puts value to his own wicket and regardless of team's situation he plays like a snail. Now let's see what we find from his career stats. In 41 tests he played 79 innings and out of that 79 innings he was out 40 times scoring less than 15 of which 33 times he was out scoring less than 10.
Well, lets see what happened in ODI, Out of 120 ODI he batted in 107 ODI's and out of that 107 innings 53 times he was out scoring less than 15 of which 36 times he was out scoring less than 10 runs.

From the stats, it is quite evident he is not a capable batsman in either form of the game and forget about the fighter he is not a simple threat to opponenets. In most occasions got out cheaply. And a player who gets out scoring less than 15 in 50% matches he played and scoring less than 10 in 40% matches he played should no longer be treated as collapse stopper.

And it is clear he imparts more fragility to BD batting order, no way he is stabilising it.

Quote:
2. Khaled Mashud puts value to his wicket and he is a fighter
3. Khaled Mashud is a collapse stopper.
3. He imparts stabilty to fragile BD batting order.
So all these three are simple myths.

Now the last one
Quote:
We need him and without him (if mushfiq playes or anyone replaces him) we will all out within 25-35 overs.
For the last one I want to bring those matches we won in ODI as we assume without his contribution it was not possible for us to bat full 50 overs and win matches.

Bangladesh won 20 ODI's so far in which KM was playing. Out of that 20 ODI in 8 ODI Khaled Mashud did not bat (ufff!!! still we managed to bat 50 overs and won matches, umm... very injustice to KM, we should have lost these matces), in 7 ODI innings he scored less than 15, in rest 5 matches he scored some decent runs (and those scores came against Hong Kong, Kenya and Zimbabwe).

Isn't it too much to say without KM we will be all out within 25-35 overs when we hardly received his service with bat in our wins. So, the last one is another Myth.

Finally all the arguments for Pilot ends as Myth.

Actually fan club of Khaed Mashud live in a world of mythology /folklore where Pilot, the ugly noble knight helps the beautiful princess from the clutch of evil prince.
(Last paragraph courtesy - thebest)
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Last edited by Miraz; August 19, 2006 at 08:26 AM..
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  #2  
Old August 19, 2006, 08:28 AM
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Iam in a big dilemma, KM or Mushfiq?
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  #3  
Old August 19, 2006, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by israr
Iam in a big dilemma, KM or Mushfiq?
Why mushfiq? What has he done? Has he proven yet that he deserves a place in national team?

I am not a fan of Khaled Masud. In fact, I could never forget him staying out of hotel late night before the WC kenya match. But that is not the question here. The question is, do we want to drag rahim before hi is ready for national team and spoil him? I think in order to groom him properly, we need to give me more time and be very careful about how we bring him in. we do not need him to disappear in 'barmuda traingle'.

then who? does not matter. if pilot is doing the job ok, let him play. or get someone else who is ready for it.
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  #4  
Old August 19, 2006, 09:05 AM
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You need bowlers to creat chance for the wicket keeper to dismiss. Now it would have been interesting if a stat could be seen on how many chance has got against how much he has wasted. Not interested in taking about batting at all. I think he is not so different from other batsmen of the team. As long as the top order doesnot click properly our batting debacles will not end.......
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Old August 19, 2006, 09:05 AM
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you are talking about dismissals. it depends on the bowlers to bowl some deliveries that would create some chances.

khaled masud is ageing. and he is painful to watch and he will be replaced sooner or later but he is the best wicket keeper in bd. and that is his main duty. and we are talking about mushfiq without seeing him play. he just played 10 first class matches. let him play some national league mathces.

talking about national league, pilot and mushfiq are from rajshahi division. so musfiq won't get any chance to keep wicket as long as pilot plays for rajshahi.
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Old August 19, 2006, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mafizraju
Not interested in taking about batting at all. I think he is not so different from other batsmen of the team. As long as the top order doesnot click properly our batting debacles will not end.......
Its very different my friend.

And more importantly Pilot fan club tries to portray Piot as cool, fighter and a player who never gets out cheaply and accuses others. At least from first post it is clear he is worse in every respect.

So, no more myths.
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  #7  
Old August 19, 2006, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sovik
you are talking about dismissals. it depends on the bowlers to bowl some deliveries that would create some chances.
Hmm.. now dismissals are no longer the criteria to judge Pilot's wicketkeeping supremacy.

I can remember just a couple of days earlier all Pilot fan were very happy as he was second in the list of wicket keeper based on dismissals for the year 2006. Then you have to agree they were very wrong . If records are in Pilot's favor all credit goes to him and when its against, its the naughty bowlers, isn't it?

Now, what about conceding bye runs
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  #8  
Old August 19, 2006, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sovik
you are talking about dismissals. it depends on the bowlers to bowl some deliveries that would create some chances.
Exactly. You have to consider that our bowlers, collectively, are far weaker than those from SL, Pakistan & India. So in that regards, both in terms of dismissals & extras, you would have to expect that Mashud's career stats will not look as pretty as that of Wicketkeepers from these other nations. It is simply one of those things that is very difficult to compare (sort of like trying to compare quality players/teams of different eras).

But, as you said Miraz, one thing that is certain is that Khaled Mashud is probably the best Wicketkeeper Bangladesh has ever produced. The fact is, unfortunately, there are no better options at our disposal at this stage (in terms of a permanent quick fix). In terms of developed Wicketkeepers, well, there are none. There is a large generation gap between Mashud and our next best option, Rahim. I find this extremely hard to swallow.

And speaking of Rahim - he is still very young, and must be gradually eased into first the ODI, then Test sides. So in that regards, I do agree that the only way for this to happen is for him to play games. But we must use him sparingly, especially at this age, and considering that he is a Wicketkeeper, a potential future Bangladesh Captain, and that his best days are no doubt still in front of him. We must avoid player burn out. In my book, its a little short term pain, for much long term gain.

The potential benefits in sticking with Mashud for a further 6-12 months far outweigh the consequences, at this stage anyway. Regardless, there are far bigger fish to fry in my book. Such as the ongoing issue on whether or not to give Mr Ashraful an extended 'rest' from both sides. I just wish this issue of prematurely killing off Mashud's career would finally be put to bed. Somehow, and it is quite unfortunate really, I just cannot see this happening.
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Old August 19, 2006, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miraz
Now, what about conceding bye runs
I think Inspector Gadget's extendable arms would struggle to reach some of the wides Mortaza and company cough up on a regular basis. Seriously though, at Mashud's age, you must forgive him for conceding the odd bye (which he may or may not have saved 3-4 years ago).

I mean Adam Gilchrist's reflexes aren't quite as good as they used to be. His phenomenal Test Batting average has gone down the gurgler - since July 20, 2005 Gilchrist has averaged 26.88 in 17 Test matches. Count out Bangladesh and it's 22.43 with no 100's. No ones calling for his head (at least not at this stage anyway).

It's all a part and parcel of the game.
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Old August 19, 2006, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr-Cricket
I think Inspector Gadget's extendable arms would struggle to reach some of the wides Mortaza and company cough up on a regular basis. Seriously though, at Mashud's age, you must forgive him for conceding the odd bye (which he may or may not have saved 3-4 years ago).
Dear Mr. Cricket, you should have known by now, in those cases the runs will be counted as wide, not bye

If a wide ball runs way for four it is recorded as 4Wide

It seems most of you are concerned about dismissals and trying to defend Pilot, fine.

This indicates you have understood the Myths surrounding his batting
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Last edited by Miraz; August 19, 2006 at 10:14 AM..
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  #11  
Old August 19, 2006, 10:26 AM
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Of the two posts I have just posted, you've just chosen to highlight the one line I made a light hearted, passing comment. In terms of the byes issue, I did not deny Mashud may have a problem - as you would have noticed in the following sentence. I did however qualify that at Mashud's age, deteriorating reflexes is a physical condition one cannot wilfully bypass. "You should have known that by now".

Nevertheless, if you had read the earlier post, you would have noticed that I was, in part, siding with you in the issue of easing his only successor, Rahim, into the side. Albeit sparingly. And that, my friend, was my main point. No one argues that Mashud's batting is not up to scratch, but then, neither are the performances of our top 6 batsman either (really, we could argue this till' the cows come home).

What I'm saying is, sure, experiment with Rahim, give him match practice, but, do it at the right times. And don't, under any circumstances, and at this stage of his career, throw him directly into the deep end (we missed the boat in not using him more regularly during the 'Safari tour'). Use him sparingly. Don't be too critical. After all, his best days are ahead of him, and he stands to gain more if he is eased into the side, rather than forced. Both physically and mentally.
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Old August 19, 2006, 10:35 AM
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Miraz bhai,
carry on. It would be difficult for you to prove. Remember how hard time Spitty and I got when we started 'No more JO club'.
I think may be one year ago, in numbers game there was article on byes and dropped chances by W/K. You may check that one or ask for that in cricinfo. For Mr Cricket and Sovik, even in the 2nd ODI againest the Kenyan he missed a couple of chances though he held 5 catches.
It is very difficult to put the numbers on qualitative value. But you can go in detail for example how many partnership he formed and wht is his contribution specially in 2006 when his batting performance is seriously deterioted. To me the best position for him to bat now is no 12.
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Old August 19, 2006, 10:41 AM
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I am indifferent about Khaled Mashud but the thing is, if we use statistics probably every other Bangladeshi player will look really really bad. Take Mohammad Ashraful, Aftab for batting, both have batting average a good bowler would be proud off Yet they are considered best prospect for Bangladesh..

Now if we consider the stats of Mohammad Rafiq or even Mashraffe, I am sure they are equally bad.(if we excluse matches against extremely weak team Kenya).

I think only Habibul Bashar has a test batting average that can be considered above average..
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Old August 19, 2006, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Cricket
And speaking of Rahim - he is still very young, and must be gradually eased into first the ODI, then Test sides. So in that regards, I do agree that the only way for this to happen is for him to play games. But we must use him sparingly, especially at this age, and considering that he is a Wicketkeeper, a potential future Bangladesh Captain, and that his best days are no doubt still in front of him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Cricket
What I'm saying is, sure, experiment with Rahim, give him match practice, but, do it at the right times. And don't, under any circumstances, and at this stage of his career, throw him directly into the deep end (we missed the boat in not using him more regularly during the 'Safari tour'). Use him sparingly. Don't be too critical. After all, his best days are ahead of him, and he stands to gain more if he is eased into the side, rather than forced. Both physically and mentally.
Dear Mr. Cricket, I understand your point. If you have time, you can have a look at Tatenda Taibus career, he started his career at 18 years of age (younger than current Rahim) and he replaced Andy Flower, who is by any standard much bigger name than Pilot. I know there were some problem in Zim cricket in that time although all players except Andy played in his debut test.

Now, I want to make one thing clear, it is important for us to immediately replace Mashud in ODI's. Mashud is experienced and Rahim is young, these word really do not carry any value. Most of the players start their career at young ages and when anyone starts he will be definitely inexperienced and will gain experience with time. In tests, we have some inactive time, if Mushfiq proves in ODI's that he ia ready to take the button from Pilot, we should arrange a farewell party for Pilot which he deserves. Otherwise, we have to wait for few more tests before the final call.
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Last edited by Miraz; August 19, 2006 at 10:57 AM..
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Old August 19, 2006, 10:48 AM
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One question: What was KM doing the night before the Kenya match at WC?
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Old August 19, 2006, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imtiaz82
I am indifferent about Khaled Mashud but the thing is, if we use statistics probably every other Bangladeshi player will look really really bad. Take Mohammad Ashraful, Aftab for batting, both have batting average a good bowler would be proud off Yet they are considered best prospect for Bangladesh..
.
Mohammad Ashraful and Aftab is accused of throwing wickets and reckless shots and there is no myth surrounding them. In every case when we accuse them we praise Pilot , now it seems he is the worst among the three.

Now, even after playing carelessly Ash and Aftab combinedly won 10-15 matches, how many matches our beloved Pilot have won for us??

(I am 100% with you that Ash and Aftab should be more responsible and play more sensibly)
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Old August 19, 2006, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miraz
Now, even after playing carelessly Ash and Aftab combinedly won 10-15 matches, how many matches our beloved Pilot have won for us??
Batting at number 7, it is extremely difficult to win games off of your own bat. Not that I'm saying Mashud is capable of doing so were he to be promoted. But I felt I had to defend him, in one way or another.

I have dug up Mashud's fielding stats during our 20 wins so you can have a gander. I'm sure you'd struggle to argue that Mashud has not stepped up, in this aspect of his game, during our wins.

Mat Dis Ct St CtF CtW MD1 MD2 MCt MSt C/M S/M 3d 4d

unfiltered 120 119 87 32 0 87 5 4 3 2 0.72 0.26 9 3
filtered 20 32 20 12 0 20 5 4 3 2 1.00 0.60 2 2

C/M = average catches per match, S/M = average stumpings per match
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Old August 19, 2006, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miraz
Dear Mr. Cricket, I understand your point. If you have time, you can have a look at Tatenda Taibus career, he started his career at 18 years of age (younger than current Rahim) and he replaced Andy Flower, who is by any standard much bigger name than Pilot. I know there were some problem in Zim cricket in that time although all players except Andy played in his debut test.

Now, I want to make one thing clear, it is important for us to immediately replace Mashud in ODI's. Mashud is experienced and Rahim is young, these word really do not carry any value. Most of the players start their career at young ages and when anyone starts he will be definitely inexperienced and will gain experience with time. In tests, we have some inactive time, if Mushfiq proves in ODI's that he ia ready to take the button from Pilot, we should arrange a farewell party for Pilot which he deserves. Otherwise, we have to wait for few more tests before the final call.
These are all valid points, and I'm begining to see your side to the argument.

One question though. In your opinion, do you really think that, at this age, and at this point in his career, Mushfiqur Rahim is prepared to tackle the rigours of the ICC Champions Trophy & World Cup 2007 on his own?
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Old August 19, 2006, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr-Cricket
These are all valid points, and I'm begining to see your side to the argument.

One question though. In your opinion, do you really think that, at this age, and at this point in his career, Mushfiqur Rahim is prepared to tackle the rigours of the ICC Champions Trophy & World Cup 2007 on his own?
If our selectors utlize him in ICCT and home series against Zimbo's I am sure you'll find the answer.
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Old August 19, 2006, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miraz
Now, even after playing carelessly Ash and Aftab combinedly won 10-15 matches, how many matches our beloved Pilot have won for us??
Pilot's batting performance in those matches he played and BD won
Mat I NO Runs HS1 HS2 HS3 Ave 100 50 0
filtered 20 12 5 237 51 48* 39 33.85 0 1 1

Pilot's fielding performance in those matches he played and BD won

Mat Dis Ct St CtF CtW MD1 MD2 MCt MSt C/M S/M 3d 4d
filtered 20 32 20 12 0 20 5 4 3 2 1.00 0.60 2 2

Ashraful's batting performance in those matches he played and BD won
Mat I NO Runs HS1 HS2 HS3 Ave 100 50 0
filtered 17 14 2 409 100 67* 51* 34.08 1 3 0

As a better wicket keeper and a batsman at position #7, is his position so questionable compare to our most 'talent brand' batsman????
One more thing, Aftab is way better than Ashra-fool. Its Aftab who won more match for BD not Ash.
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Old August 19, 2006, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cricket_dorshok
Pilot's batting performance in those matches he played and BD won
Mat I NO Runs HS1 HS2 HS3 Ave 100 50 0
filtered 20 12 5 237 51 48* 39 33.85 0 1 1

Pilot's fielding performance in those matches he played and BD won

Mat Dis Ct St CtF CtW MD1 MD2 MCt MSt C/M S/M 3d 4d
filtered 20 32 20 12 0 20 5 4 3 2 1.00 0.60 2 2

Ashraful's batting performance in those matches he played and BD won
Mat I NO Runs HS1 HS2 HS3 Ave 100 50 0
filtered 17 14 2 409 100 67* 51* 34.08 1 3 0

As a better wicket keeper and a batsman at position #7, is his position so questionable compare to our most 'talent brand' batsman????
One more thing, Aftab is way better than Ashra-fool. Its Aftab who won more match for BD not Ash.
Cricket_Dorshok, don't just look ate the average as it is skewed by his 5 not out score. He did not bat in 8 occasions. So, in 12 innings he was not out 5 times and that skews his average.

Let's see his runs in 12 innings..

0, 15*, 11*, 26, 20, 11*, 51, 2*, 1, 39, 48*, 13

It doesn't look that pretty like average of 33.85

Those 51, 39 and 48* scores are against Kenya and Zimbo's

To have a comparison in 20 matches Pilot scored 237 runs while in 17 matches Asraful scored 409 runs, this is a much better representation if we talk about contribution.
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Old August 19, 2006, 11:53 AM
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Ashraful's ODI career
Mat I NO Runs HS1 HS2 HS3 Ave 100 50 0
76 72 3 1391 100 94 67* 20.15 1 9 10
If above career stat is sufficient to be in the team as a top order batsman in the team, then why not the followings for batting position #7 along with his world class keeping.

Pilot's ODI career
Batting:
Mat I NO Runs HS1 HS2 HS3 Ave 100 50 0
120 107 26 1777 71* 54* 54 21.93 0 7 8
Fielding:
Mat Dis Ct St CtF CtW MD1 MD2 MCt MSt C/M S/M 3d 4d
120 119 87 32 0 87 5 4 3 2 0.72 0.26 9 3

Should not we adress the problem for the first one????????
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Old August 19, 2006, 12:02 PM
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World cricket acknowledges win aginst Australia, India, Srilanka, Pakistan much higher than wins agsint Kenya and Zimbawe.

In all those big occasions (except pakistan, as he started after that), its Ashraful who had significant contrubtion.

In wins against Australia, India, Srilanka and original Zimbabwe side back in 2004, Ashraful averages 76.66.

I think you now understand the vallue of Ashraful in our team. It's unfortunate he is not consistent.

And most importantly poor performance by any top order batsman never justifies Pilots poor show with batting.
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  #24  
Old August 19, 2006, 12:05 PM
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cricket_dorshok cricket_dorshok is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miraz
Cricket_Dorshok, don't just look ate the average as it is skewed by his 5 not out score. He did not bat in 8 occasions. So, in 12 innings he was not out 5 times and that skews his average.

Let's see his runs in 12 innings..

0, 15*, 11*, 26, 20, 11*, 51, 2*, 1, 39, 48*, 13

It doesn't look that pretty like average of 33.85

Those 51, 39 and 48* scores are against Kenya and Zimbo's

To have a comparison in 20 matches Pilot scored 237 runs while in 17 matches Asraful scored 409 runs, this is a much better representation if we talk about contribution.
Why do you expect same score from Pilot. As a late order batsman, is not reasonable along with his keeping.

Those 51, 39 and 48* scores are against Kenya and Zimbo's

Do you really think, we would have won without these runs even against ZIM, KEN!!!!
Why don't you think, without these contributions, we might not win first ODI series, we might not whitewashed KEN for the first time and we might have more humiliation in ZIM. So, a win is always a win. You know long we had to wait for a win against KEN even!!!!!!
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  #25  
Old August 19, 2006, 12:10 PM
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akabir77 akabir77 is offline
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I have only two thing to say
It is very stupid to say pilot is good or bad by looking at stats... Cuase there r many things involve which is not considered
but its more stupid to support him if you have seen his pathetic batting to keep his place in the team.

Bottom line he is great in wicket keeping and that's why he needs to continue playing test as long as some one from odi is doing good, but we need to drop him from odi right now doesn't matter whether top can play or not. Cause he is not a team player and sicnce our top can't play we need more of a batsman wktkeeper cause after 20 over when number 6 comes in we need some one who can rotate strike with the old boys and score some runs not just block block block block one block block block block block block block block one one block block block block block block block block RunOut block block two block one block RunOut block block block block block block block block and OUT batsman
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