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  #1  
Old October 18, 2006, 02:20 PM
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tglover tglover is offline
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Default The Answer To Ashraful

Hi Everyone. Man I wish Dav Whatmore could read this ... (I am sure he already knows what I am about to say) ...

Ashraful can't open. Cricket is a game of statistics. In ODIs, Ashraful has batted at positions 1-2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. Here are the stats for all of them:

1-2: 358 runs @ 14.91 (HS 66)
3: 138 runs @ 11.50 (HS 44)
4: 570 runs @ 25.90 (HS 100)
5: 290 runs @ 24.16 (HS 67*)
6: 55 runs @ 55.00 (HS 51*)

Ashraful boasts 915 in the middle order (4-6) at an awesome average of 26.14. He must *NOT* bat at positions 1-3 ... he just doesn't know what to do. Wake up management!!! Pleaseeee !!! He's too good a talent to waste!
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  #2  
Old October 18, 2006, 02:29 PM
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Tigers_eye Tigers_eye is offline
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Going with your statistics theory:
#4 is occupied with a better average.
#5 captain himself.
#6 is also occupied with a better average.

He can sit on the bench and play in the domestic league if he wishes.

When would performance matter? Enough of this talent thingi already. Ash's one score of 50+ in ten matches doesn't mean he in-form our out of form. It means he has no idea on how to build an innings, hold on to a innings; in summary how to bat.
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  #3  
Old October 18, 2006, 02:51 PM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tglover
1-2: 358 runs @ 14.91 (HS 66)
3: 138 runs @ 11.50 (HS 44)
4: 570 runs @ 25.90 (HS 100)
5: 290 runs @ 24.16 (HS 67*)
6: 55 runs @ 55.00 (HS 51*)
Hmmm... looks like the lower in the bating order he plays, the higher is his Average. In that case why don't we let him play at #12?
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  #4  
Old October 18, 2006, 03:24 PM
SS SS is offline
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LOL @ Fazal.
Ash glorious era has ended, he should concentrate on something diff or unique...like water boy(Adam Sandler did good), Bd's unique Fan wearing makeups and going to the field naked(like brazilian soccer fans/girls), commentator like (KhodaboxMridhza) , actor Asharful Khan of "Ami Keno Hiro"(similar like Amir Khan in Lagan), or he should try something really different tatoos and piercing all over his body(i mean ALL over nothing EXCLUDED) and become like Dennise Rodman.
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  #5  
Old October 18, 2006, 03:42 PM
billah billah is offline
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We are yet to see the best Ash has to offer. These are his learning years. He should stick to it and should not quit. Although he is presently better suited for the middle order, I think if he was given enough time to adjust as an opener, he would have done well there also. Besides, if he has to compete for a spot in the middle order in the ODIs, the choice should be easy: just drop Bashar.

Ash is ONLY 22.
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  #6  
Old October 18, 2006, 03:46 PM
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tglover tglover is offline
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Bashar should be batting at #3 ... the whole order is screwed up and Ashraful has suffered because of it.

Javed Omar/Rajin Saleh/Nafees Iqbal/Mehrab jnr should be used for the opening position. I wouldn't be surprised if we see Nazmus Sadat or Tamim Iqbal soon.

The team just keeps getting younger and younger doesn't it.

Eshanul Haque would be interesting to see if he gets brought back to the test arena.
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  #7  
Old October 18, 2006, 03:58 PM
roaring tigerz roaring tigerz is offline
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Ashraful is the most skilfull batsman Bangladesh has ever produced. Anyone who has seen him in full flight can have no qualms about this statement.
Saying this, he has failed to demand a place in the team through his performances even after 5 years of international cricket. His situation has not been helped by frequent exclusions and indecisions of the management with him. But in the end, only Ashraful himself can sort out himself and resurrect his career.
Instead of ridiculing him during this low point, some sense of support or 'constructive criticism' would be more appropriate. To bask in the glory during the good times is easy, but the real fans never lose belief in their own through thick and thin.
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  #8  
Old October 18, 2006, 04:09 PM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roaring tigerz
Instead of ridiculing him during this low point, some sense of support or 'constructive criticism' would be more appropriate. To bask in the glory during the good times is easy, but the real fans never lose belief in their own through thick and thin.
Well if you really want 'constructive criticism', here it is again. I don't know why its so hard to absorb:

"With his current form, Ash should go back to the lower level and regain his form and confidence back. By lower level, I mean team-a and domestic league."

As long as team management and Ash fan try to force the issue and continue to experiment, Ash career will continue to decline. There is no point to try him in the national team in different positions and hope against hope that something miracle will happen. Usually that doesn't happen. If Ash is that talented, let him regains his form back in lower level and then come back to national team. Thats what all players in all nations do. Is it too much to ask from Ash or from his fans?

Many Ash fans tried to make a case why Ash should be tried to open the innings. I told you before and I am telling you now its was a JOKE experiemnt, bound to be failed. Now where are those Ash fans who suggested he should open? Can you please stand up?

And about rmaking fun of Ash? It will not stop if Ash continue to be included in the team and he continue to fail to perform. Beacuse its the team and the real fans, who are suffering for that.

Last edited by Fazal; October 18, 2006 at 04:17 PM..
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  #9  
Old October 18, 2006, 04:41 PM
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skills my foot. ppl are bragging abt this idiots skills. well if u hav skill u hav to perform. which he is not doin even against weak teams. so forget him and move on.
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  #10  
Old October 18, 2006, 05:03 PM
billah billah is offline
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I think it would be poor judgement to "forget him & move on" so early in his career. I would like to name another top batsman of the world, who did not have a great beginning: The "Marauding" Jaysuria. Look how far he has gone. He did most of it after resurrecting his career, at a more mature age.
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  #11  
Old October 18, 2006, 05:31 PM
SS SS is offline
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lankans are far superior than us in cricketing knowledge, professionalism and dedication. May be we can do it in future, but Ash will be great grandad by then.
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  #12  
Old October 18, 2006, 06:44 PM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS
lankans are far superior than us in cricketing knowledge, professionalism and dedication. May be we can do it in future, but Ash will be great grandad by then.
thats not the point...if Jayasuriya was so professional why did he average 19 (yes 19 just like ash-da fool) for the first half of his career? he was a late bloomer...not everyone who scores 10,000 runs in ODIs is a tendulkar.

and speaking of tendulkar, his first 4 years he averaged just 30 even in ODIs, and IIRC, he had no hundreds.

now i am not expecting ash, to be another jayasuriya, but i think he can still forge a career where he can be the author of 7 or 8 thousand runs at a 35ish average.

ash needs to play cricket all the time...and he needs 10-15 innings in both forms of the game at one batting position without moving him around.

part of the reason he has failed, its not just his rashness, but its our collective effort to force him into being a superstar player.

i do it all the time. everytime he comes to crease i hope for a 100. i don't do that with other BD player except aftab.

we fans, and even the management, lo, we as a nation, have been living our superstar dreams through him...and it is contributing to the crap that is his career so far.

we need to lock the guy up at #4 or #5 for a year...and forget about him...let him surprise us, for ill or good. then either throw him in the rokon bin or salute him as the player he will be. there is every chance ash will be a huge bust, but there is also a good chance that he could be the superstar we've all been looking for.
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  #13  
Old October 18, 2006, 07:27 PM
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no matter what, we want ashfool in the team :d
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  #14  
Old October 18, 2006, 07:28 PM
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We have to throw out the 6th position stat - 1 game and a no.

My personal preference - # 5. He plays more responsibly as most likely than not, we are 4 for 55 by then.
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  #15  
Old October 18, 2006, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal
Hmmm... looks like the lower in the bating order he plays, the higher is his Average. In that case why don't we let him play at #12?
good one Fazal!
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  #16  
Old October 18, 2006, 09:11 PM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
we need to lock the guy up at #4 or #5 for a year...and forget about him...let him surprise us, for ill or good. then either throw him in the rokon bin or salute him as the player he will be. there is every chance ash will be a huge bust, but there is also a good chance that he could be the superstar we've all been looking for.
Sorry #4 or #5 slot in our national team is not for sale so that Ash fans can continue to do gambling with that. Its not anyone's paternernal property. Any one who wants to play in the national team, needs to perform, atleast needs to show they are learning from their mistakes. We cannot affort to sacrifice one slot, even the Aus cannot do that.

I Understand Ash is still young (22 yrs) and talented. If you guys really love Ash and wants him to be back with a solid career, the only way is to play in domestic league and team-a and gain his form back. There is no short cut to that, even pure talent can't nullify the need for hard work and production.

No body is discounting Ash yet, not even me. Time is on his side to comeback again. But sticking with the national team with bad form is not the way to comeback, .....its going back to team-a and work hard with his basics is the way to go... because that is the place where he can concentrate wilh minimum pressure. With him in the national team and not performing, its like presuure cooker with pressure building by exponenstial level. National team is no place to do babysitting to talented but under achieving players.

For Gods sake, to all Ash fans, rethink what you guys are doing. Basically you are killing any future hope of Ash's comming back. If we keep him including him upto WC2007 and if he continue to fail, trust me, even with his tender age, we will pretty much kill his career prematurely, we will basially kill the golden goose.

So be reasonable, think about Ash's young age, and be patient. If he is the real deal as you guys think, he will come back with a bang when his form is back. And team-a is the place where he should get his form back, not in the national team.

However if he not a real deal, then why fight the war prematurely? Let him decide, by playing in team-a and domestic league, what he still have left to offer, not what he have done once in a while a year ago. If he cannot produce in team-a, don't tell me he has something left to offer to the national team.

Last edited by Fazal; October 18, 2006 at 09:35 PM..
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  #17  
Old October 18, 2006, 10:28 PM
shaoun shaoun is offline
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ash will be our star player soon inshallah. but he needs to regain his form.
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  #18  
Old October 18, 2006, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
thats not the point...if Jayasuriya was so professional why did he average 19 (yes 19 just like ash-da fool) for the first half of his career? he was a late bloomer...not everyone who scores 10,000 runs in ODIs is a tendulkar.
...
part of the reason he has failed, its not just his rashness, but its our collective effort to force him into being a superstar player.

i do it all the time. everytime he comes to crease i hope for a 100. i don't do that with other BD player except aftab.
...
we need to lock the guy up at #4 or #5 for a year...and forget about him...let him surprise us, for ill or good...
al Furqaan..man I really like you. And you just don't know how much sense you make.

You know our damn problem? We want a SUPERSTAR out of a guy who's 22, played 70 or so matches, and have been experimented like a freakin test mouse.

I just dont understand one thing. Being crazy for a player is good...but can't we keep our expectations at a manageable level? What's wrong with everybody? Today he's at #1, yesterday he was at #4. Don't keep moving him along all the time damn management! If you move Nafees and Aftab that often, even they wouldn't do any good.

When BD won against Zimbabwe in CT, there was an interview with Raqibul Hassan (former BD captain) on ATN Bangla (in Canada). He mentioned that Ashraful DOES NOT want to open...he WANTS to play at #4...he COMPLAINS to the management. But the management wants to experiment with him. If you don't wanna do something at work, and your supervisor wants you to do just that, doesn't it demoralize you? Come on guys...try to realize that. You need to moralize this boy...he's got the potentials...and keep your expectations to some limit. If not today, tomorrow he might be able to show his best. But yes...don't expect him to perform every single time. Every match is different. Keep it that way.
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  #19  
Old October 18, 2006, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal
[B]Basically you are killing any future hope of Ash's comming back. If we keep him including him upto WC2007 and if he continue to fail, trust me, even with his tender age, we will pretty much kill his career prematurely, we will basially kill the golden goose.
And what about the fact that removing him from the team just before WC '07 will demoralize him so bad that it might end his career right there?
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  #20  
Old October 18, 2006, 11:45 PM
SS SS is offline
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I think we have another answer. If we get three more "useful" and "performer" like "Ash". Then I guess he won't be paniced. As he will know, people also expects star performance from him and others similar to him.
We already have Nafees, If we can have little more good knocks from Aftab, then he will be the second one. Saaqib, Reza if they can work hard or anyone from talented pools who can perform and play mentail game, we will start seeing different result.
Ash will be relieved and pull of 30 or something runs again each match in middle or late middle order.
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  #21  
Old October 19, 2006, 01:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal
Any one who wants to play in the national team, needs to perform, atleast needs to show they are learning from their mistakes. We cannot affort to sacrifice one slot, even the Aus cannot do that.

I Understand Ash is still young (22 yrs) and talented. If you guys really love Ash and wants him to be back with a solid career, the only way is to play in domestic league and team-a and gain his form back. There is no short cut to that, even pure talent can't nullify the need for hard work and production.

No body is discounting Ash yet, not even me. Time is on his side to comeback again. But sticking with the national team with bad form is not the way to comeback, .....its going back to team-a and work hard with his basics is the way to go... because that is the place where he can concentrate wilh minimum pressure. With him in the national team and not performing, its like presuure cooker with pressure building by exponenstial level. National team is no place to do babysitting to talented but under achieving players.

For Gods sake, to all Ash fans, rethink what you guys are doing. Basically you are killing any future hope of Ash's comming back. If we keep him including him upto WC2007 and if he continue to fail, trust me, even with his tender age, we will pretty much kill his career prematurely, we will basially kill the golden goose.

So be reasonable, think about Ash's young age, and be patient. If he is the real deal as you guys think, he will come back with a bang when his form is back. And team-a is the place where he should get his form back, not in the national team.

However if he not a real deal, then why fight the war prematurely? Let him decide, by playing in team-a and domestic league, what he still have left to offer, not what he have done once in a while a year ago. If he cannot produce in team-a, don't tell me he has something left to offer to the national team.
Fazal, this may be your most logical post on why Ash should be demoted to the A-team for the time being. You had me be almost convinced, seriously.

But then I thought - would dropping him to a lower level accomplish the goal that we seek? Namely help him get his form back? If so, his stint at Rainhill should have done that - for as we have established, 'tis but a "moholla" league that team plays in. Nope - even there he was on and off. When on - awesome - when off, embarrasingly so. And when people are out of form, the tend to have horrible timing or some really faulty techniqe - from what I've watched since the SL series - this is not necessarily the case either. He is timing the ball well - though he is squinting a lot. His problems does appear to be purely mental (and perhaps visual).

Therefore I tend to go with those who say, invest him with a position and then tell him - you have it for 20 matches no matter what. And I for one think "opening" is a great position for him. He is quite capable against quicker bowlers and can go over the top in the power play overs. With SN, we already have the accumulator to complement him. Oh and ensure he gets weekly session with a shrink. A religious shrink who will help him draw inspiration from his faith while getting his demons/insecurities straightened out.

Of course all this is just my opnion ... and counts for diddly poo
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  #22  
Old October 19, 2006, 02:58 AM
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I can't understand why all Ash fans are so panic upon hearing the word 'drop'. We all BD fan want better performance from our team. We don't want embrassed performance from our team. To get better performance from our team, we should pick the best team. On the current form of the individual player, Ashfool should not be picked. Thats simple, so drop him. Why we will think Joddhu or Modhu did something especial onece upon a time, thats why he should be in the team. We shoul be professional, we shoul pick the best team available now. If someone feels that he has enough talent/capable enough, then he should prove it through performance. Now, why Ash promoted to openning, this because of the Ash-lover management. Last few series, Ash was not playing well at his preferred position (#4), but in the last Africa safari, some youg guys showed better than him. So for the betterment of team performance they should be picked and subsequently underperformer should be dropped. Since selectors are Ash fan, they gave him another life time that is IMO not justified.
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  #23  
Old October 19, 2006, 04:38 AM
PoorFan PoorFan is offline
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Ash for #12 is best at this moment. And for Ash fans, relax guys, there is huge possibility of same inconsistency from Mehrab, Reza and Sakib, as well as injury problem of any batsman. Ash will be surely dragged in as long as he is with the team ( 12th to 14th position ). We are not yet ready to drop him from the team, since we lack players in pool ( Tushar, Alok is not a choice ) anyway.
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  #24  
Old October 19, 2006, 05:21 AM
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tglover tglover is offline
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The thing that you guys arn't understanding is ... I think Ashraful still *IS* in good form ... but he just can't open!

You throw him down the order he'll be scoring runs again and playing his natural game instantly.

Fine if you guys rekon he should play for Bdesh 'A' for a series I can see where you are coming from ... but I think Bangladesh just need to reshuffle their order around.

I know you guys will critisize me ... but this is what Bangladesh's best ODI team for me:

Javed Omar
Shahriar Nafees
Rajin Saleh
Habibul Bashar (c)
Mohammad Ashraful
Aftab Ahmed
Khaled Mashud (k)
Mohammad Rafique
Mashrafe Mortaza
Abdur Razzak
Shahadat Hossain

Syed Rasel 12th man just misses out ... Farhad Reza too along with Saqibul Hasan .. but they should stay in the squad.

I picked Omar because he has experience and boasts a healthy ODI average. Who CARES if he scores slow ... he only scores slow because usually Bdesh lose 3 wickets in the first 10 overs. For me hes perfect. Bangladesh can't keep on picking 19 year olds ... they need experience.

Syed Rasel just doesn't have the pace for ODIs ... his bowling average is good because he got wickets against Kenya.

Last edited by tglover; October 19, 2006 at 05:28 AM..
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  #25  
Old October 19, 2006, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tglover
The thing that you guys arn't understanding is ... I think Ashraful still *IS* in good form ... but he just can't open!

You throw him down the order he'll be scoring runs again and playing his natural game instantly.

Fine if you guys rekon he should play for Bdesh 'A' for a series I can see where you are coming from ... but I think Bangladesh just need to reshuffle their order around.

I know you guys will critisize me ... but this is what Bangladesh's best ODI team for me:

Javed Omar
Shahriar Nafees
Rajin Saleh
Habibul Bashar (c)
Mohammad Ashraful
Aftab Ahmed
Khaled Mashud (k)
Mohammad Rafique
Mashrafe Mortaza
Abdur Razzak
Shahadat Hossain

Syed Rasel 12th man just misses out ... Farhad Reza too along with Saqibul Hasan .. but they should stay in the squad.

I picked Omar because he has experience and boasts a healthy ODI average. Who CARES if he scores slow ... he only scores slow because usually Bdesh lose 3 wickets in the first 10 overs. For me hes perfect. Bangladesh can't keep on picking 19 year olds ... they need experience.

Syed Rasel just doesn't have the pace for ODIs ... his bowling average is good because he got wickets against Kenya.
what wrong has sakib and farhad done with the chances they got so far that you advocate dropping them for rajin saleh and javed omar !!! Have i missed something here or have these two players (saleh and omar) shown some extraordinary feats in the domestic league going on now to demand a place in the team.
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