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  #251  
Old December 17, 2006, 09:18 PM
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Arnab Bhai just out of curiosity,

1. Where was your schooling?

2. Which University did you attend and for what major?

3. What is your current occupation?

4. From your posts it seems you are extremely confident of the things you are stating although many of the things are normative statements which can be argued. What makes you this confident to the point of being arrogant ?

If you think any of the questions are not suitable I would not judge you for not answering them.
  #252  
Old December 17, 2006, 09:35 PM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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This thread is fast approaching the role of an annoying itch. You don't want to have to deal with this but it bothers you enough to have a scratch once in a while.

I cannot believe folks have scribed pages after pages trying to "argue" forth just one issue. That any Bangladeshi grattitude (or acknowledgement if you will) for Indian actions during our liberation war can or cannot be viewed without taking into account current hegemonistic Indian attitudes towards Bangladesh.

Imtiaz wishes to discuss this issue along with all current encumbrances and Arnab wishes to consider them as separate topics.

However, as is wont to happen in internet argueme... um... discussions, personal intransigences results in annoying exchanges of acute polemics and not any of the real issues of interest.

Half the members do not care any more, half the members are watching with either bemusement or amusement, and half the members are taking pot shots at either party whenever the opportunities arise and even when it does not.

Given the nature of our inherent India-phobia or India-philia I would be surprised if most people can engage in a dispassionate and rational discourse.

There is no middle ground is there?
  #253  
Old December 17, 2006, 09:44 PM
Arnab Arnab is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shahriyar
Arnab Bhai just out of curiosity,

1. Where was your schooling?
Snoop around. It's been mentioned in this forum.

Quote:
2. Which University did you attend and for what major?
Why? Are you hiring me?

Quote:
3. What is your current occupation?
Why? Do you think I have a future in politics or policy-making?

Quote:
From your posts it seems you are extremely confident of the things you are stating
What "things"? You are being pretty vague here. Mention them clearly.

Quote:
although many of the things are normative statements which can be argued.
Which is why we are having a continuing debate on them and presenting arguments. It's called having a debate on normative topics.

Quote:
What makes you this confident to the point of being arrogant ?
It's true that I am very confident in my position. And I have defended my position as clearly and with as much reasoning and facts as I could. But I don't consider myself arrogant. How do you reckon I am arrogant?

Quote:
If you think any of the questions are not suitable I would not judge you for not answering them.
Well, for someone who has not taken an active part in the debate so far and who do not know me personally, I don't think you are in a position to judge me anyway.
  #254  
Old December 17, 2006, 09:50 PM
Arnab Arnab is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunaid
Half the members do not care any more, half the members are watching with either bemusement or amusement, and half the members are taking pot shots at either party whenever the opportunities arise and even when it does not.
I'd definitely say the thread has run its course.

Either Imtiaz needs to bring his AK-47 from the military forum and start shooting random Indians here (there's so few here), or I need to stop responding to him.
  #255  
Old December 17, 2006, 10:14 PM
PoorFan PoorFan is offline
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I think this thread has come to it's conclusion way before, all members here got their own conclusion already. In other words, this thread lost it's 'life' leaving some members taking one side, and others to be silent, but nothing new to discuss. So may be it's time to close the thread or stop posting anymore.
  #256  
Old December 17, 2006, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnab
Snoop around. It's been mentioned in this forum.



Why? Are you hiring me?



Why? Do you think I have a future in politics or policy-making?



What "things"? You are being pretty vague here. Mention them clearly.



Which is why we are having a continuing debate on them and presenting arguments. It's called having a debate on normative topics.



It's true that I am very confident in my position. And I have defended my position as clearly and with as much reasoning and facts as I could. But I don't consider myself arrogant. How do you reckon I am arrogant?



Well, for someone who has not taken an active part in the debate so far and who do not know me personally, I don't think you are in a position to judge me anyway.

OK first of all I found your school was St. Joseph. Is Arnab your real name? The reason I am asking is I might be mistaking you for a cousin of mine from the way you are talking. Secondly I get the point that you do not want to answer my other questions which is fine. Ohh and BTW, I have been actively participating in this thread and have read all the posts so based on that I am in a position to judge you but I wont because I know better than that.The only difference is I havent been involved in a huge debate with you unlike Imtiaz Bhai. When I said things I meant all the issues you have been talking about in your posts and all your opinions. It would be pretty meaningless to mention all of them in my post to you since that would mean copying everything you said in the last few pages. I dont know if you are arrogant or not in person but there seems to be an air of arrogance about your posts, the way you discard other people's arguments no matter how valid they maybe. Case in point, you keep discarding the facts that India is involved in Anti Bangladesh activities simply by saying it is not relevant to the topic but I think since someone bought up the issue of "eternal gratefulness" they are very valid points.
Last question, Do you work in Minnesota and have a degree in Computer Engineering?
  #257  
Old December 17, 2006, 10:32 PM
PoorFan PoorFan is offline
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Quote:
OK first of all I found your school was St. Joseph. Is Arnab your real name? The reason I am asking is I might be mistaking you for a cousin of mine from the way you are talking.
That's a nice coincident ( possibly ) to have a happy 'hand shake'! We the audience are watching eager. Come on guys lets shake hand and stay tuned for a coming issue / topic.
  #258  
Old December 17, 2006, 10:54 PM
Arnab Arnab is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shahriyar
Case in point, you keep discarding the facts that India is involved in Anti Bangladesh activities simply by saying it is not relevant to the topic
It's not relevant to the topic of 1971. That's my position. I think have posted plenty on this so far.

Quote:
but I think since someone bought up the issue of "eternal gratefulness" they are very valid points.
Well, the phrase "eternal gratefulness" or anything like that was not deliberately introduced or mentioned by me. The person(s) who did it, probably did it intentionally to frame the discussion so that he/they could launch a series of posts containing post-1971 "Anti-Bangladesh" activities by India, which, although they have much merit in a separate discussion, I think are irrelevant to and shouldn't be mixed up with the main issue, i.e., whether India did the right thing in 1971 (in my well thought out opinion, yes) and whether Bangladeshis should still feel grateful for what India did in 1971 (again, in my well-considered opinion, yes).

So, in short, you still might not have a clear grasp of my opinion. I hope you do now, after this post.

Quote:
Last question, Do you work in Minnesota and have a degree in Computer Engineering?
No and no.

I don't think we are somehow related either.
  #259  
Old December 17, 2006, 10:58 PM
Arnab Arnab is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorFan
That's a nice coincident ( possibly ) to have a happy 'hand shake'! We the audience are watching eager. Come on guys lets shake hand and stay tuned for a coming issue / topic.
No luck there. And I am not even considering this to be a fight of some sort.
  #260  
Old December 17, 2006, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorFan
That's a nice coincident ( possibly ) to have a happy 'hand shake'! We the audience are watching eager. Come on guys lets shake hand and stay tuned for a coming issue / topic.
Brother, it is nothing personal against Arnab bhai, its just that his opinions are different than mine and his way of stamping his opinion which bothers me. Other than that I have respect for the guy for two reasons,
1. He is much older than me and seems much more learned
2. He sticks to his arguments and backs them up with an extra dose of confidence
(which is also bothering at the same time) .
  #261  
Old December 17, 2006, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnab
You are completely missing the point. Imtiaz was asserting as if the Farrakah problem was a direct threat to our very existence, as if we are at war with India. It isn't like that! There can be numerous reasons why there have been no million-man rallies, one of which could be that an international problem like this needs to be taken care of at diplomatic levels and we have made progress at those over the years. We signed a treaty with India on this in the late 90s, which was a good start.
I dont think a nuclear holocaust can wipe BD out given the size of our population, let alone some far flung dam. And how do you suppose we tackle this problem on diplomatic level? Building this dam shows India's damn care attitude to the welfare of its neighbour. And I don't blame them. The country can't barely think what's good for its own people, let alone have any concern for its neighbours. Building hi-fi nuclear facilities with US and satellites while its lower class citizens their a$$ off to eat twice a day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnab
Sure. I don't think I ever denied the hardship suffered by Bangladeshis for the Farakkah dam. So what's your point?
This is what you said:
Quote:
Funny, because I am in Dhaka right at this moment and I don't see anti-India processions and michhils here or ANYWHERE in the country by millions of farmers every other day.
You may have meant something else, but for a person reading your post above for the first time, he/she can draw only this conclusion. You are in Dhaka and you don't see any Anti-Indian protest or rallies ANYWHERE in the country, that includes rural places like villages and urban places like Dhaka. And no farmer who may be affected by by this dam came forward to protest.

I may be wrong or misunderstood you but that was my understanding reading that 1 line on top. In my reply, my point was just because you didn't see any michils or whatever doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist.

Imtiaz may have said that Farakkah dam is a threat to our very existence which is very wrong analogy. There is a fine line between wiping our existence and causing hardship. Sufferings and hardship is nothing new in BD and I am sure Farakkah dam doesn't add that much suffering to make us extinct. BUT your reply to that seemed like there is no problem with the dam because you didn't happen to see any protest.

Whether the dam threatens our existence OR causes suffering, either way India has no right to build it with the damn care attitude it showed in 1975.

Also to mention that dam has seriously affecting the ecology of the rivers and surrounding areas including sundarban due it's redirection of rivers + fuelling problems of rising salinity.


Quote:
I am pretty well acquainted with the Farrakah problem. I have read hundreds of reports on it in the newspapers since my childhood. But thanks for the links anyway.
You are most welcome. I do not doubt your knowledge regarding Farakkah dam but I doubt your depth of knowledge about the problem.

Last edited by Alien; December 17, 2006 at 11:43 PM..
  #262  
Old December 17, 2006, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shahriyar
Arnab Bhai just out of curiosity,

1. Where was your schooling?

2. Which University did you attend and for what major?

3. What is your current occupation?

4. From your posts it seems you are extremely confident of the things you are stating although many of the things are normative statements which can be argued. What makes you this confident to the point of being arrogant ?

If you think any of the questions are not suitable I would not judge you for not answering them.

Very interesting coming from you.
  #263  
Old December 17, 2006, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien
Whether the dam threatens our existence OR causes suffering, either way India has no right to build it with the damn care attitude it showed in 1975.
Being a powerful upstream country, it has the right to do whatever the F**k it wants. Too bad we can't do anything about it.
  #264  
Old December 18, 2006, 12:03 AM
Arnab Arnab is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien
I dont think a nuclear holocaust can wipe BD out given the size of our population, let alone some far flung dam.
Sure.

Quote:
And how do you suppose we tackle this problem on diplomatic level?
By forcing them into bilateral talks. That's how it is done in any other case.

Quote:
Building this dam shows India's damn care attitude to the welfare of its neighbour. And I don't blame them. The country can't barely think what's good for its own people, let alone have any concern for its neighbours.
India built the dam for the benefit of their own people, and they can build any kind of dam within their borders and we cannot dictate that. It's our job to remind them that we are affected by these actions as well and seek for a middle ground so that both countries can benefit from it. And this has to be done diplomatically.

Quote:
Building hi-fi nuclear facilities with US and satellites while its lower class citizens their a$$ off to eat twice a day.
Irrelevant to the current discussion.

Quote:
I may be wrong or misunderstood you but that was my understanding reading that 1 line on top.
Yes, you have been wrong and misunderstood me, precisely because you just read 1 line from my post, seemingly without considering the context in which it was written.

Quote:
In my reply, my point was just because you didn't see any michils or whatever doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist.
Yet, my quote wasn't about denying the existence of the problem. You clearly misread me.

Quote:
Imtiaz may have said that Farakkah dam is a threat to our very existence which is very wrong analogy.
And my reply about micchils was exactly about that. If something affects the very existence of a people, the natural thing for them to do is to stage protests. At least that's how it goes in Bangladesh as long as I can remember.

And again, this doesn't mean I am suggesting the problem doesn't exist. I knwo the problem exists. I have been reading about it since I was a child.

Quote:
There is a fine line between wiping our existence and causing hardship.
Oh I think there's a very BROAD line between the two. Not fine.

Quote:
Sufferings and hardship is nothing new in BD and I am sure Farakkah dam doesn't add that much suffering to make us extinct.
Absolutely.

Quote:
BUT your reply to that seemed like there is no problem with the dam because you didn't happen to see any protest.
You clearly misread me.

Quote:
Whether the dam threatens our existence OR causes suffering, either way India has no right to build it with the damn care attitude it showed in 1975.
Whether India has the "right" to build a dam within their border with a "damn care attitude" is certainly debatable. But not relevant to the original topic I was contesting.

Quote:
Also to mention that dam has seriously affecting the ecology of the rivers and surrounding areas including sundarban due it's redirection of rivers + fuelling problems of rising salinity.
Sure.

Quote:
You are most welcome. I do not doubt your knowledge regarding Farakkah dam but I doubt your depth of knowledge about the problem.
Oh I think I might just know about it more in depth than you do.

Last edited by Arnab; December 18, 2006 at 12:12 AM..
  #265  
Old December 18, 2006, 12:10 AM
Arnab Arnab is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBgun
Being a powerful upstream country, it has the right to do whatever the F**k it wants. Too bad we can't do anything about it.
I think there's plenty that we can do. We can build international opinion to force India to sit with us and reach a treaty that sees the benefit of both sides.
  #266  
Old December 18, 2006, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBgun
Very interesting coming from you.
The key to my post is the last line. Please read that and everything should be clear why my question was not inappropriate since I earlier took a stance against such a similar question.
  #267  
Old December 18, 2006, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnab

By forcing them into bilateral talks. That's how it is done in any other case.
India is a regional super-power that has defied countless pressure from big guns of world politics like US and Japan and even resisted some sanctions over its nuclear issues in the past. Sure we can have a bilateral talk, but we are not in any position to make them give in or have any useful concession regarding the dam. Compared to them, we are minnows in every aspects, militarily and economically. Any discussions, whether bilateral or multilateral is bound to be anything but productive and they will just play along with false promises and false show of concern.

Quote:
India built the dam for the benefit of their own people, and they can build any kind of dam within their borders and we cannot dictate that. It's our job to remind them that we are affected by these actions as well and seek for a middle ground so that both countries can benefit from it. And this has to be done diplomatically.
India's dam is causing hardship in its own territory given its disrupting the natural ecology of the region, including ours(which they never cared of course), by diverting the rivers. Now, you cannot just go and build a dam in your territory if you like because India is sharing that river with BD. If BD builds a dam on its side to counter the Farakkah dam, how will India react to it? It will do anything to tear it down and I mean anything.

Quote:
Irrelevant to the current discussion.
No it isn't. But I was making a point that a government that doesn't think about the welfare of its citizens, then there is no way it will care about well fare if it's neighbours.
That way it justifies my claim that India did it out of no concern for how it may impact our nation. When you analyse why people in BD don't like India, you have to look at a wide range of factors that contribute to it.
Quote:
Yes, you have been wrong and misunderstood me, precisely because you just read 1 line from my post, seemingly without considering the context in which it was written.
The section of the post I was referring to is 1 line. Check again if you dont believe me. It started with a capital and ended with a full stop, with no other full stop in the middle.

Quote:
Yet, my quote wasn't about denying the existence of the problem. You clearly misread me.
Like I said, a person reading our post has no option but jump to that conclusion.

Quote:
And my reply about micchils was exactly about that. If something affects the very existence of a people, the natural thing for them to do is to stage protests. At least that's how it goes in Bangladesh as long as I can remember.
Once again, its a 36 year old issue. You are not likely to find protest or michil about it now. But at the time there was protests about it from the general public. If any such protest does arise, it will be from BD government to Indian consulate in BD, not people chanting and rallying in streets.
Quote:
And again, this doesn't mean I am suggesting the problem doesn't exist. I know the problem exists. I have been reading about it since I was a child.
Yep no doubt.
Quote:
Oh I think there's a very BROAD line between the two. Not fine.
Agree 100%. We just got different terminology

Quote:
You clearly misread me.
Did I? Well I put my argument at the top of this post and the one before.
Quote:
Whether India has the "right" to build a dam within their border with a "damn care attitude" is certainly debatable. But not relevant to the original topic I was contesting.
No doubt. But topic changes in a conversation remember?



Quote:
Oh I think I might just know about it more in depth than you do.
I won't pretend I know a lot and definitely don't read as much as you. But no offence, when it comes to drawing conclusions and empathising, I think you fail miserably. Once again please take no offence.

Last edited by Alien; December 18, 2006 at 12:54 AM..
  #268  
Old December 18, 2006, 01:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien
India's dam is causing hardship in its own territory given its disrupting the natural ecology of the region, including ours(which they never cared of course), by diverting the rivers. Now, you cannot just go and build a dam in your territory if you like because India is sharing that river with BD. If BD builds a dam on its side to counter the Farakkah dam, how will India react to it? It will do anything to tear it down and I mean anything.
Isnt that what Israel did to syria at some point? Bombed a upstream dam.
Well the thing is we will have to go through this process of hardships until or unless we have developed bargaining chips. But seriously i think we should try and pursue policies that will benefit both of us. we have to create win win situations.
  #269  
Old December 18, 2006, 02:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBgun
Isnt that what Israel did to syria at some point? Bombed a upstream dam.
Well the thing is we will have to go through this process of hardships until or unless we have developed bargaining chips. But seriously i think we should try and pursue policies that will benefit both of us. we have to create win win situations.
I know they launched raids to Jordan to destroy a dam there back in 1969. Not sure if they hit any Syrian dam as well.

Israel is the most barbaric nation on earth so assume anything barbaric and check the Internet and you will probably turn out to be right.
  #270  
Old December 18, 2006, 02:20 AM
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I guess I was right. They did bomb a Syrian dam back during the six day war. Source
  #271  
Old December 18, 2006, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien
India is a regional super-power that has defied countless pressure from big guns of world politics like US and Japan and even resisted some sanctions over its nuclear issues in the past. Sure we can have a bilateral talk, but we are not in any position to make them give in or have any useful concession regarding the dam. Compared to them, we are minnows in every aspects, militarily and economically. Any discussions, whether bilateral or multilateral is bound to be anything but productive and they will just play along with false promises and false show of concern.
With that sort of negative attitude, we are sure to fail diplomatically as well.

Quote:
India's dam is causing hardship in its own territory given its disrupting the natural ecology of the region, including ours(which they never cared of course), by diverting the rivers. Now, you cannot just go and build a dam in your territory if you like because India is sharing that river with BD. If BD builds a dam on its side to counter the Farakkah dam, how will India react to it? It will do anything to tear it down and I mean anything.
What's the point of these hypothetical scenarios? Re: the Farakka problem, the best course of action for us is to focus on REALITY.

Quote:
No it isn't. But I was making a point that a government that doesn't think about the welfare of its citizens, then there is no way it will care about well fare if it's neighbours.
EVERY government on earth can be made to look like they don't care for the welfare of their citizens. You are over-generalizing too much. And making your argument weak in the process.

Quote:
That way it justifies my claim that India did it out of no concern for how it may impact our nation.
...or even their nation, right? You're claiming the Indian authority built the dam to harm Indian citizens AND us. Which is of course not the reality. Hindsight is always 20-20.

Quote:
When you analyse why people in BD don't like India, you have to look at a wide range of factors that contribute to it.
Well, I wasn't analyzing why people in BD don't like India. That's a different topic.

Quote:
The section of the post I was referring to is 1 line.
And the point is, you cannot just take 1 line out of context and then make a big thing out of it. One could accuse you of being intentionally obtuse.

Quote:
Check again if you dont believe me. It started with a capital and ended with a full stop, with no other full stop in the middle.
??? Sure.

Quote:
Like I said, a person reading our post has no option but jump to that conclusion.
Not really. But it does seem that the only person careless enough to do that would be you.

Quote:
Once again, its a 36 year old issue. You are not likely to find protest or michil about it now. But at the time there was protests about it from the general public. If any such protest does arise, it will be from BD government to Indian consulate in BD, not people chanting and rallying in streets.
Sure. I fail to see the relevance.

Quote:
Agree 100%. We just got different terminology
Sure. As long as you are happy with calling "broad" "fine" and "fine" "broad". You are living in an upside-down world. It's a miracle this conversation we are having here.

Quote:
Did I? Well I put my argument at the top of this post and the one before.
And your "argument" is lacking.

Quote:
No doubt. But topic changes in a conversation remember?
Sure. And I will be happy to pursue discussing the new changed topic if you want to.

Quote:
I won't pretend I know a lot and definitely don't read as much as you. But no offence, when it comes to drawing conclusions and empathising, I think you fail miserably. Once again please take no offence.
None taken. Unless you prove otherwise, you are wrong about my ability in drawing conclusions in this thread. And I don't know what you mean by "empathizing". You mean like me giving you a free cookie or something?
  #272  
Old December 18, 2006, 06:30 AM
Arnab Arnab is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shahriyar
Other than that I have respect for the guy for two reasons,
1. He is much older than me and seems much more learned
2. He sticks to his arguments and backs them up with an extra dose of confidence
(which is also bothering at the same time) .
Why, thank you! I could have chosen to be less learned, not stick to my arguments, and not back them up in a confident manner, but if that was the case, I don't think I would have gotten my point across in an Internet discussion on a political topic such as this one. Discussions like these are, more often than not, a mess of unclear, vague and ultimately directionless assortment of posts where different people rant and shout about different things at the top of their voice. Sometimes taking a stern tone in writing help people focus and take part in the discussion in a serious, thoughtful and intelligent manner. Just a theory of mine.
  #273  
Old December 18, 2006, 06:39 AM
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In fact, I can see ways in which one can reveal a few holes in my stance, if one thinks deeply and formulates them carefully. A stance can potentially be proven non-flexible and lacking in some manner. But unfortunately, no-one has put that in writing so far.
  #274  
Old December 18, 2006, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnab
With that sort of negative attitude, we are sure to fail diplomatically as well.
Politics is a dirty business and where might is right. So attitude, whether positive or negetive has little or nothing to do here.

Quote:
What's the point of these hypothetical scenarios? Re: the Farakka problem, the best course of action for us is to focus on REALITY.
They aren't hypothetical facts. They are real and well-known facts and as someone who has in-depth knowledge of Farakkah dam issue, you should be well aware of it. Check those links I sent you. They are no doubt subjective and portray form BD pov, but they have no reason to falsify facts.

Quote:
EVERY government on earth can be made to look like they don't care for the welfare of their citizens. You are over-generalizing too much. And making your argument weak in the process.
I agree. But can you say that Indian government has been made to look bad? Or is there really something wrong with it? Nukes, Satellites, overpopulation and poverty don't go hand in hand.

Quote:
...or even their nation, right? You're claiming the Indian authority built the dam to harm Indian citizens AND us. Which is of course not the reality. Hindsight is always 20-20.
That's not what I said. The dam itself is controversial and India didn't consider what impact it would have (or it did but chose to ignore) on BD. India is facing some problems but BD is coping the 95% of whatever ecological hazard posed by the dam. After all, the dam is only 18km from India's border, so whatever impact it has on India is very minimal.

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Well, I wasn't analyzing why people in BD don't like India. That's a different topic.
It is indeed.

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And the point is, you cannot just take 1 line out of context and then make a big thing out of it. One could accuse you of being intentionally obtuse.
Your one line reply on Farakkah started this mini debate b/w you and me. You said stated your argument and I stated mine.

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Not really. But it does seem that the only person careless enough to do that would be you.
Well, if thats how you see it, then I got nothing else to say.

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Sure. I fail to see the relevance.
You said you didn't see any michils or mass demonstration of farmers against the dam. In reply I said (twice actually) that its an old old issue and you wont see people protest in street about it, but that doesn't mean that the problem doesn't exist.

I really can't make it any simpler than that.

Quote:
Sure. As long as you are happy with calling "broad" "fine" and "fine" "broad". You are living in an upside-down world. It's a miracle this conversation we are having here.
Well, I see that quite a few people lives in the same upside-down world as me. So thankfully my world isn't that empty.

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And your "argument" is lacking.
Now you are being obtuse.

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None taken. Unless you prove otherwise, you are wrong about my ability in drawing conclusions in this thread. And I don't know what you mean by "empathizing". You mean like me giving you a free cookie or something?
Dunno what you mean about fresh cookie but what I mean about empathizing is that the ability to put yourself in the shoes of those farmers who are facing hardship because of the dam. From your posts, I fail to see that.
  #275  
Old December 18, 2006, 11:39 AM
Arnab Arnab is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: June 20, 2002
Location: BanglaCricket.com
Posts: 6,069

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien
Politics is a dirty business and where might is right. So attitude, whether positive or negetive has little or nothing to do here.
Really. So you're not a fan of diplomacy eh? I guess you shouldn't be too much concerned about a positive thing like "empathizing" with anybody then.

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They aren't hypothetical facts.
What India will do to us if we build a dam in our own country is certainly hypothetical. I was referring to that part of your post.

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They are real and well-known facts and as someone who has in-depth knowledge of Farakkah dam issue, you should be well aware of it. Check those links I sent you. They are no doubt subjective and portray form BD pov, but they have no reason to falsify facts.
You completely misunderstood what I meant as hypothetical. The Farrakah problem is very real. I totally acknowledge that.

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I agree. But can you say that Indian government has been made to look bad? Or is there really something wrong with it? Nukes, Satellites, overpopulation and poverty don't go hand in hand.
Sure. What's the big deal? EVERY government, including OUR government can be made look "bad" on multiple counts. And why would you be so bothered about "looking bad" anyway? I thought you are a follower of the "might is right" paradigm.

Quote:
That's not what I said. The dam itself is controversial and India didn't consider what impact it would have (or it did but chose to ignore) on BD. India is facing some problems but BD is coping the 95% of whatever ecological hazard posed by the dam. After all, the dam is only 18km from India's border, so whatever impact it has on India is very minimal.
Sure. It's a grave problem for Bangladesh.

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Your one line reply on Farakkah started this mini debate b/w you and me. You said stated your argument and I stated mine.
Yeah, whatever.

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Well, if thats how you see it, then I got nothing else to say.
That's how I see it.

Quote:
You said you didn't see any michils or mass demonstration of farmers against the dam. In reply I said (twice actually) that its an old old issue and you wont see people protest in street about it, but that doesn't mean that the problem doesn't exist.

I really can't make it any simpler than that.
Thanks for the recap. I never said that the problem doesn't exist, neither did I bring up the lack of processions as a proof that the problem doesn't exist. So what's your point again? You must have misread me.

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Now you are being obtuse.
Nope. Your argument was pretty much empty.

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but what I mean about empathizing is that the ability to put yourself in the shoes of those farmers who are facing hardship because of the dam. From your posts, I fail to see that.
Strange. I thought you said "might is right", politics is dirty and positive/negative attitudes don't matter. Why would you care about "empathizing" with the farmers so much? You are making contradictory statements.
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