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  #26  
Old December 19, 2006, 06:51 PM
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Excellent observation by Rubu as always. And Fazal, I would love to take a peek at your 401K portfolio! By that I mean real stock or mutual funds picks. Seriously.
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  #27  
Old December 19, 2006, 07:01 PM
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I am not qualified enough to rate or pick players, but on a different note, I am concerned about what will happen after these players? Note, pretty much all these young guns (U-19) are coming from Richard McInnes boot camp. Do we have enough supply for 2008-09 and beyound?

What will be the market outlook then? A bubble bust in 2009? Fazal? Who is in the R&D department for U13, U15, U17, U19?
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  #28  
Old December 19, 2006, 07:41 PM
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Most of the observations are fair I suppose. I can see that everybody is expecting Aftab's stock to go up next year, but iam yet to be convinced. Yes, He can hit the quick bowlers out of the ground when there is a field restriction in place, but so can many other pinch hitters, does that make him a skilled batsman? I don't think so!

His temperemnt will never be good enough in order for him to handle the pressure at the international level. he is like a common thief..He knows that he shouldn't steal, and he promises that he wo'nt do it again, but soon as the backs are turned he is up to his old tricks. So the moral of the story is he cant resist a waft every so often.

His technique against spin is so poor that any decent team will just eat him alive.
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  #29  
Old December 19, 2006, 08:22 PM
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Fazal bhai,

Great update...now with pics. You're particularly good at picking the pics. I like Rajin's one the most
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  #30  
Old December 19, 2006, 11:43 PM
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what a great post fazal!

i would like to say that mash has great batting talents and should be promoted up the order.
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  #31  
Old December 20, 2006, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beamer
al Furqaan

I don't know if I agree with you completely. I don't think he is a no.3 test bat material. He never was. One of the main ingredients a no.3 has to have is positive intent, a natural strokeplaying ability that will enable the batsman to take the attack to the bowlers, something Bashar has done very well for us in tests. On numerous ocassions, he has bailed us out of torrid situation with his aggressive innings, though he doesn't have the technique that is demanded from that position. He was successful beacuse of his intent and he did it everywhere. You must have that, more so than having impeccable technique. Rajin bats at no.4 or no.5 in tests and he should not bat higher or lower than that. He should play in tests based on his past performances ( against Australia last ) and hasn't done anything to get ditched from the test team yet. I am eager to see him do well outside of Bangladesh, so he can solidify himself in our middle order. I do like the mental aspect of his game though he needs to improve upon his stroke play, which is a bit too limited, and his technique against the moving ball leaves a lot to be desired.
flawless arguments. couldn't agree any more.
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  #32  
Old December 20, 2006, 11:05 AM
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Too long to read, but have some good analysis.
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  #33  
Old December 20, 2006, 11:33 AM
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pagol-chagol pagol-chagol is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reyme
I am not qualified enough to rate or pick players, but on a different note, I am concerned about what will happen after these players? Note, pretty much all these young guns (U-19) are coming from Richard McInnes boot camp. Do we have enough supply for 2008-09 and beyound?

What will be the market outlook then? A bubble bust in 2009? Fazal? Who is in the R&D department for U13, U15, U17, U19?
Good one. Don't copy Fazal's protfolio. If Fazal cared about his portfolio so much, he would have been a multimillionaire.
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  #34  
Old December 20, 2006, 11:39 AM
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Good analysis.
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  #35  
Old December 20, 2006, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubu
On a different note, when was the last time they did not make the team without smoking a few joints? I can't even remember them all, but off the top of my head, here is a few blender they already made, so do not bet on what they gonna smoke and then what they gonna do

1. Bring in shanto to play against india.
2. play alok about 100 more chances than he deserved.
3. pushing ash to the opening slot where he never does good.
4. blame ash for not performing there, and then through him out of the team.
5. making few thousands unnecessary changes in the opening slot.
6. many many more...........

Agree to all of the above but at the same I acknowledge the fact that this is the best group of selectors we had so far and they have been doing a commendable job AFAIC barring the few incidents you mentioned.
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  #36  
Old December 20, 2006, 11:06 PM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beamer
al Furqaan

I don't know if I agree with you completely. I don't think he is a no.3 test bat material. He never was. One of the main ingredients a no.3 has to have is positive intent, a natural strokeplaying ability that will enable the batsman to take the attack to the bowlers, something Bashar has done very well for us in tests. On numerous ocassions, he has bailed us out of torrid situation with his aggressive innings, though he doesn't have the technique that is demanded from that position. He was successful beacuse of his intent and he did it everywhere. You must have that, more so than having impeccable technique. Rajin bats at no.4 or no.5 in tests and he should not bat higher or lower than that. He should play in tests based on his past performances ( against Australia last ) and hasn't done anything to get ditched from the test team yet. I am eager to see him do well outside of Bangladesh, so he can solidify himself in our middle order. I do like the mental aspect of his game though he needs to improve upon his stroke play, which is a bit too limited, and his technique against the moving ball leaves a lot to be desired.
well, yes you are correct. but i guess what i was trying to say was that rajin is a fighter. we never expected him to be one of the most consistant batsman in the aussie series yet he did that (only SN showed similar reslove). that being said, i don't believe that we have seen all that rajin saleh can bring to the table. if he can be half of rahul dravid (why not?), then the #3 spot is a shoe in. look at it this way, if bashar can be the #3, rajin can.

i don't see why rajin needs aggressiveness to succeed in Tests. rather thats been the problem with all our batsman even and especially bashar, but extending down to aftab, and ashraful as well. they bat too fast far too many times. if they slowed things down and scored the same number of runs, then many if not all of our matches would progress well into a 4th day.

if we get a better #3, i'm all for it...but for now rajin is the man.
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  #37  
Old December 21, 2006, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
well, yes you are correct. but i guess what i was trying to say was that rajin is a fighter. we never expected him to be one of the most consistant batsman in the aussie series yet he did that (only SN showed similar reslove). that being said, i don't believe that we have seen all that rajin saleh can bring to the table. if he can be half of rahul dravid (why not?), then the #3 spot is a shoe in. look at it this way, if bashar can be the #3, rajin can.

i don't see why rajin needs aggressiveness to succeed in Tests. rather thats been the problem with all our batsman even and especially bashar, but extending down to aftab, and ashraful as well. they bat too fast far too many times. if they slowed things down and scored the same number of runs, then many if not all of our matches would progress well into a 4th day.

if we get a better #3, i'm all for it...but for now rajin is the man.
I do like Rajin Saleh in our test team. He has the mental aspect that not many posses at the moment apart from SN. He specially seems to do well right after he gets dropped ( and he has been dropped before ) and comes back to the team as a result. That tells me that mentally the kid is tough. Thats the good part .

Now the bad part, and that has nothing to with mental aspect of the game, but the technical aspect. He is not good at all against quality pace or pitches that help seamers. All of his good knocks have come in BD in dead-pan picthes and mostly against Zim. Yes, he was good against the Aussies, and that was the reason why I said that he should play in our next test series based on his last performance. But, not as no.3. I will explain why, later.

Before the Aussie series, only notable series he had was in his debut series in Pakistan. In between, he has been dropped against England ( home and away ), India, in and out against NZ, ok in WI, did well in home series against Zim ( surprise ! ), then dropped in England ...you get it right? Most recently he didn't play against SL at home. But as usual, he has done well in his come back series against Australia. And, in his entire career ( so far ) he has batted maybe once at no.3 and opened may be once or twice ( if my memory serves me right ) only because JO was retired hurt or something. I don't quite understand how you can say that he is a shoe-in at no.3? That is streching the imagination a bit. Contrary to popular belief, he is not good at all with the newer ball, seaming and zipping, as he gets frozen in his track with nominal footwork. No.3 must face a lot of new balls ( BD opening in the past meant no.3 is there after four/five overs or worse ) and if you are not technically that gifted, your only way out is by attacking ( Bashar for good example ), so the latter batsmen can work on that foundation. Say what you say about Bashar, but his test contribution at no.3 has been mammoth by our standard, and whenevr we had success in scoring a good/decent total, it has been almost always on the back of Bashar's knock. Rajin does not have that quality. Sure, his steel is needed, but later in the order ( preferably at no.5 with the old ball ) so he can bat with lower middle to lower order batsmen.

With his ultra negatice approach at no.3, he will be sorrounded by opposing fielders and they will get him out knowing he is not going to attack. Can't do that. Sure we would like to have a Dravid . I mean who wouldn't? But, not many in the world scene has his technical gift. He is literally the ideal no.3. But, look around and you will see that among all the test playing nations, the respetives no.3's are also their best batsman, all attacking by nature , but not necessarily technically the most gifted in the team, yet sound. Ponting, Vaughn, Dravid, Flemming, Sarwan ( Lara is a freak and doesn't apply ), Younis/Yosuf, Sangakkara..all..all of them has one thing in common. They take there time to settle ( rajin does that ) and then get on top of bowlers to build the platform ( rajin doesn't do that ). And he is not the best batsman in the team. Bashar and Ashraful are the best two and they should bat at 3 and 4.

We also need to understand the diff between aggressiveness and positive intent. You are correct when you say that all of our batsmen are aggressive. I agree. They don't know how to attack. They play low percentage shots in test cricket and get out. Rajin is not guilty of that. He will try hard not to gift his wkt away. But, at no.3 they will pry his wkt away simply because he won't back em off. He won't play attacking, high percentage shots , when its needed. You are right when you say that we haven't seen the end of Rajin. I would very much like him to succeed at no.5 . He plays within his limitation and there is nothing wrong with that. But we will be doing a disservice to him and to us if he ask him to bat at no.3. What I have seen SO FAR, doesn't indicate that he has what it takes to be a no.3 in tests. He needs to improve his footwork, technique against quality pace in or outside the country, and above all develop a little more range of shots, high percentage ones. Mentally, he is Ok, but a bit too negative in his approach...
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  #38  
Old December 21, 2006, 06:02 PM
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wow.. man.. I love your organization skills.. superb.. keep it up.. why dont you become a columnist in Cricinfo???
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  #39  
Old December 21, 2006, 08:17 PM
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well said beamer bhai. i just feel like rajin wouldn't get that much time batting at 3 down. but i guess he's got to earn it.
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  #40  
Old December 21, 2006, 09:49 PM
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Great analysis Beamer! thanks for shearing.
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  #41  
Old December 21, 2006, 11:14 PM
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Brilliant Article Fazal.
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  #42  
Old December 21, 2006, 11:36 PM
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both Al-Furqaan and Fazal
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  #43  
Old December 22, 2006, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IanW
A bowling attack of Masrafee, Shahadat, Rafique and one of Rassel or Haque is both balanced and more than good enough for Test cricket.

Ian Whitchurch

Russel would get hammered outside of the subcontinent. Haque and Shahadat (one ODI Hatrick against Zim doesn't count)are not proven yet against quality opposition, but they do have the goods. Its a matter of developing them.

So I wouldn't call them 'good enough for Test cricket' just yet.
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  #44  
Old December 30, 2006, 12:40 PM
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Pulling up the thread...for discussion.
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  #45  
Old December 30, 2006, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatekeeper
Russel would get hammered outside of the subcontinent. Haque and Shahadat (one ODI Hatrick against Zim doesn't count)are not proven yet against quality opposition, but they do have the goods. Its a matter of developing them.

So I wouldn't call them 'good enough for Test cricket' just yet.
Rajib would of gotten pointing twice if not for the drop, and the bouncer he gave to pointing in the final over showed me he has plenty of fight to. 4/83 and 5/86 vs Sri Lanka are good enough for me.

Rasel is perfect outside the subcontienent, i think many of us have agreed he'd be a lock to play in tours that take place in NZ/AUS/SA/ENG.

Enamul jr, everytime we play Zimbabwe he gets a 5-fer and he's proven himself vs England and Australia.
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  #46  
Old December 30, 2006, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cricman
Rajib would of gotten pointing twice if not for the drop, and the bouncer he gave to pointing in the final over showed me he has plenty of fight to. 4/83 and 5/86 vs Sri Lanka are good enough for me.

Rasel is perfect outside the subcontienent, i think many of us have agreed he'd be a lock to play in tours that take place in NZ/AUS/SA/ENG.

Enamul jr, everytime we play Zimbabwe he gets a 5-fer and he's proven himself vs England and Australia.
You've actually agreed with me on you post. My points are exactly what you mentioned except in Russel's case.

Shahadat did that in Bangladesh, he's still not proven outside. I am not saying he won't be as good but its a matter of finding that out, cannot say yet. Same goes for Enamul Jr. They both have to prove themselves outside of their natural surroundings. And I do believe they have the goods.

I don't understand your point about Russel. What is your reason for this conclusion?
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  #47  
Old December 31, 2006, 03:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatekeeper
You've actually agreed with me on you post. My points are exactly what you mentioned except in Russel's case.

Shahadat did that in Bangladesh, he's still not proven outside. I am not saying he won't be as good but its a matter of finding that out, cannot say yet. Same goes for Enamul Jr. They both have to prove themselves outside of their natural surroundings. And I do believe they have the goods.

I don't understand your point about Russel. What is your reason for this conclusion?
They have all had some experience outside the subcontient

Even though Rajib got called up for the Lords Test, Both Rajib and Rasel got called up because of the A team tour of England that summer were they both were impressive. Rasel getting a 10 wicket Haul vs Kent Enam was average in that tour but He owns Zimbabawe in Zimbabwe, But Razzak played really well also and now he's everybody favorite.

If you think about everybody who shined in that tour S.Nafees, Rasel, Rajib and Razzak has been a real positive for Bangladesh except for Tushar Imran, and Nafees Iqbal who's had some bad luck.

Tour Match: Durham v Bangladesh A at Chester-le-Street, 7 Aug 2005
Tour Match: Glamorgan v Bangladesh A at Abergavenny, 26-28 Jul 2005
Tour Match: Gloucestershire v Bangladesh A at Bristol, 20-22 Jul 2005
Tour Match: Lancashire v Bangladesh A at Liverpool, 1 Aug 2005
Tour Match: Kent v Bangladesh A at Canterbury, 16-18 Aug 2005
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12.6 Syed Rasel to Sangakkara, OUT: What a delivery, completely fooled Sangakkara, first five delivery were the outswingers and now, this one comes in sharply, Sangakkara tries to left it and ball hits the off stump, top class bowling!
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  #48  
Old December 31, 2006, 03:51 AM
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Lets take a break and congratulate cricman for achieving his 2000 unbeaten posts
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  #49  
Old December 31, 2006, 04:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cricman
If you think about everybody who shined in that tour S.Nafees, Rasel, Rajib and Razzak has been a real positive for Bangladesh except for Tushar Imran ....
I was really hopeful about Tushar after that A-team tour, but the guy failed to capitalize on national team opportunities he got afterwards. The selectors also did not help his cause when they suddenly brought Kapali back and kept switching between Tushar and Alok for quite a while. IMO, it would have been lot better for the causes of those two cricketers and for the cause of Bangladesh cricket if the selectors gave Kapali a longer stint in domestic cricket and few more chances to Tushar.
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  #50  
Old December 31, 2006, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cricman
They have all had some experience outside the subcontient

Even though Rajib got called up for the Lords Test, Both Rajib and Rasel got called up because of the A team tour of England that summer were they both were impressive. Rasel getting a 10 wicket Haul vs Kent
Not interested in what tey did against some below strength county teams. I agree with you that these are good indicators but consistanct is the key. We've gotten over enthusiastic many times before based on a few performances. I would like to see more consistancy before I can brand anyone.

Let me just say one thing though, I think Shahdat can be a great fast bowler if guided, coached and nurtured properly. He has all the attributes. Let us see what he becomes......next one to two years are crucial.
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