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  #1  
Old April 28, 2007, 11:45 PM
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Default To end the 'One-man-show' It needs to be the other way around!

Yes, I am talking about the hattrick WC win by the Aussies..
Anyone else feels that it is getting kindof boring that one team keeps thrashing all the others for years after years?

But as it appears, all the other teams are waiting for the time when Australia's game-standard will start to fall. But in reality... only the opposite is happening. They are only becoming a stronger and better team every year.

It actually needs to be the other way around. 2 or 3 other teams really need to lift their game much much higer to get themselves neck-to-neck with the Aussies... rather than waiting for the Aussies to come down in standard. Only then can the boring 'One-man-show' by the 'Men-In-Yellow' be brought to some challenge.
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  #2  
Old April 29, 2007, 12:24 AM
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What gave you the impression that the other teams are just waiting for the OZs to come down? I thought they gave it their best. The OZs are just too good, and there will come a time when theyre not as strong as they are now, and I think itll be within this very year. I hope not cuz its been great just to watch how teams SHOULD play, but with Mcgraths retirement comes the fall of the main pillar holding Aussie bowling together. He was the most consistently economical of all their bowlers, and its a shame to see him leave looking so good....He seemed to have plenty of years left in him, but I guess its he who knows better than anyone..
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  #3  
Old April 29, 2007, 12:37 AM
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Today SL proved that they are a real class team. They way they approached the game was completely different than any others in this whole tournament. But they failed in the middle due to some really stupid reasons.

After watching today's match, I really won't agree completely with Ahmed bhai. But what I do agree on is, other than SL and may be to some extent NZ, all other teams are just gonna find a growing gap b/w them and the Aussies.
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  #4  
Old April 29, 2007, 12:40 AM
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The reason for Australia's long term success is because we have a system in place which ensures that the best cricketers get the best preparation, both in first class cricket and even earlier, to ensure that they are physically, mentally and technically ready to compete in international matches.

It's not just about talent - it's about identifying talent early, nurturing it, training it both mentally and physically, then picking the best of these into the OZ XI. It's about being really professional in how you manage the sport.

We only have a small population (20million) and many sports - cricket has to fight for its share of young kids, who get split up between cricket, rugby, league, Aussie Rules, tennis, swimming, football, etc. We don't have a huge pool to choose from like India or Pakistan, so we have to make sure that the ones we do choose are well-prepared.

The thing about the OZ success is that it is not purely down to talent or skill - it's down to attitude, professionalism and a lot of hard work to try to keep improving. Look at the u-19 and u-21 competitions - the OZ don't dominate there to the extent that we do in full-fledged Tests or ODIs. At u-19 and u-21 level we're about even with India, Pakistan, SA or any of the other teams. But when our players move from the ages of 19 to about 23 or 24, they improve at a much faster rate than their counterparts, because they play in a cut-throat district, grade and domestic competition which weeds out the also-rans from the really-good prospects. Then this "cream of the crop" usually has to mark time in the Pura Cup (our FC competition) to make sure that they are mentally and physically prepared to play in high-pressure matches. Then the best of these are cherry-picked to play in the Test side. That's why OZ can pick players out of domestic cricket that nobody else has heard of (e.g. Bracken, Hussey, Clark, Tait, etc) and they slot into the OZ side fully prepared and able to cope with the pressure of international cricket. As an example, before he made his OZ debut, Hussey had scored over 15000 runs and had 35 first class centuries - so by the time he played for the Baggy Greens had already had heaps of experience.

It's very rare for the OZ to pick a young bloke to play for our team if he hasn't played first class cricket in OZ yet - Clarke had to wait, Tait had to wait, and even now there are a lot of exciting young blokes in OZ (Cullen Bailey, Adam Voges, Chris Rogers, Ben Hilfenhaus) who just have to bide their time and continue to hone their skills in the Pura Cup.

Because we have a well-organised structure, it turns into a competitive advantage for us - we don't have to rely on finding the "one-in-a-million" players, the Shane Warnes or the Adam Gilchrists. They're the icing on the cake - but the fundamental base is built from the likes of the Pontings, Haydens, Martyns, McGraths, Brackens, Husseys, etc.

The good news is that it's not impossible to adopt this system - all you need is a visionary leader who can mobilise different elements of your cricket infrastructure and work towards improving it and making it more cohesive:

For the infrastructure
1. get the right set of administrators in place
2. work on improving coaching standards at FC, district and schoolboy level
3. set up a talent identification and management process
4. work to improve the first class domestic competition - make it more competitive and try to make sure that there are pressure matches so that players can get used to playing under pressure
5. make sure you have a succession plan in place. Players are like inventory - they age and need to be replaced. There should always be at least one or two players being "groomed" for each position, should a player retire or lose form.

For the team:
1. get the right coaching staff in place to support the team
2. have a strong leader who can "own" the team and leave his stamp on it
3. ensure that when deficiencies in players are noticed (either mental or technical) that someone works with them to eliminate these. No point dropping a player because he keeps walking across his stumps but then not working with him to fix it, because he will never improve.
4. Work hard on things like athleticism and fitness, so that things like fielding and running between the wickets improve. This is unglamourous but often is the difference between winning and losing.

I guess to summarise, what I'm saying is that all the above can be replicated, as long as someone has the critical mass and vision to implement it. The catalyst for OZ cricket to restructure itself was when we had the mass retirements of Lillee, Chappell and Marsh in the 1980s and our team basically ended up getting hammered by the WI for years. Cricket Australia recognised that we couldn't be in a situation where we were relying on "blind luck" of having talented players coming through - we had to work to make sure that whatever talent we had, that we improved it and made sure it was as prepared as possible. Look at the WI - no system in place, so when the talent dried up they've plummeted from No1 to No8 or 9 in the world.

Talent always helps - and we're lucky to have such a strong cricket culture that we're always unearthing talented players like Tait, Clarke, Symonds, etc - but having a system in place will help build competitiveness when the talent's not always there, and will build on existing talent as well.

My 2c (geez that was a bit long).

Last edited by OZGOD; April 29, 2007 at 12:49 AM..
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  #5  
Old April 29, 2007, 12:42 AM
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OZGOD: with everything you said, it just left me saying "hmm"...
Really, nothing much that I can add on to it, or argue about there
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  #6  
Old April 29, 2007, 12:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BD4eva
What gave you the impression that the other teams are just waiting for the OZs to come down?...
Confused?
Well... here you go!...
Quote:
Originally Posted by BD4eva
...there will come a time when theyre not as strong as they are now, and I think itll be within this very year...
Even you are waiting for it.... atleast expecting it to happen!
Can't blame you though. No team is saying it loud... but every team is probably hoping the Aussies will not remain as srtong as they are now! Thats exactly what I meant!
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  #7  
Old April 29, 2007, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabir
OZGOD: with everything you said, it just left me saying "hmm"...
Really, nothing much that I can add on to it, or argue about there
Professionalism, and mastery of the fundamentals, has always been a characteristic of OZ sporting teams, mate. The flair of players like Gilchrist, Warne, Mark Waugh, Damien Martyn, Michael Clarke, etc is just icing on the cake.
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  #8  
Old April 29, 2007, 12:53 AM
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Okay, one thing that BD4eva is taking for granted is that, since many of Aussie big guys are retiring, Australia will soon lose its momentum. For good reasons, I think they will still retain the best team tag...simply due to the supply of new players that they have.
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  #9  
Old April 29, 2007, 02:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahmed_B
Confused?
Well... here you go!...


Even you are waiting for it.... atleast expecting it to happen!
Can't blame you though. No team is saying it loud... but every team is probably hoping the Aussies will not remain as srtong as they are now! Thats exactly what I meant!
I thought i made myself pretty clear. Maybe not. Theres a fair line between expecting something to happen, and waiting for it to happen. Waiting for something really means your not doing much about it. That doesnt necessarily hold true with expecting something. And your second comment is more likely to be closer to the truth. The other teams are almost definitely hoping that the Aussies fall, but that doesnt mean theyre waiting around for it... Any clearer?
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  #10  
Old April 29, 2007, 02:21 AM
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Australia wont fall till someone decides to push them off.

as ive stated in a previous post it will be an up and comming side, someone with nothing to loose and a team not full of players suffering mental scarring or post traumatic stress disorder from the last time they faced Oz.

im not sure India, Pakistan, West Indies or England have the will to improve their managment structure and youth development to become competitive. Zimbabwe and Kenya are basket cases that have bigger problems than cricket.
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  #11  
Old April 29, 2007, 02:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabir
Okay, one thing that BD4eva is taking for granted is that, since many of Aussie big guys are retiring, Australia will soon lose its momentum. For good reasons, I think they will still retain the best team tag...simply due to the supply of new players that they have.
I agree. I hardly believe the new players will be any substitute for the players that are retiring. Although Australia will almost definitely still be a powerhouse, you cant expect them to carry on the way they are going without their main players. You dont have to look very far for supporting examples. Todays match for instance. Hayden, Gilchrist, Ponting - all of whom will be retiring before the next WC, the highest scores of their innings - all of whom looked extremely comfortable in the middle (barring Hayden, but we all know how "comfortable" he was in the previous games), you go down the order to Symonds, Watson and Clarke (all of whom are likely to stay on till the next WC) and you start to see swings and misses. Although these three are definitely class players and it seems unfair to judge them in the death overs, they have absolutely nothing on the likes of Ponting, Hayden and Gilly. Although theyre likely to retain the "best team" tag, theyll also be on the decline. Although theyve got a good system in for grooming players, youve got to have the talent to begin with. You cant just pick a guy off the street, send him through this "magic" system and expect him to be a world beater. And the Aussie Under 19 team isnt all that great. Doesnt mean theyre NOT talented either. Just not as much as this older generation...
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Last edited by Farhad; April 29, 2007 at 02:32 AM..
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  #12  
Old April 29, 2007, 02:43 AM
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One thing for sure Aussies definitely mastered the art of mind game in and out of the field. Bullying, Pressuring the opponents with body language, arguing with the umpire on every controversial decision, making comments about the opponent and their best players right before the series (and even during the world cup matches) has been a critical part of Ponting era. Before the final Tom Moody was forced to make statements like "Mind your own business" against his fellow countrymen! I wonder after Ponting who will lead the team and will there be enough blood to take care of all of these non-sportive tasks.
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  #13  
Old April 29, 2007, 03:13 AM
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I think one thing that OZGOD illustrated finely was that all teams have talented players... it is what you do with the talent. The aussies have a system in place which prepares their player to be much more tougher and stronger. The aussies are very much even with all other teams in the age group but these players manage to surge ahead of their peers when they become 24-25.
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  #14  
Old April 29, 2007, 11:50 AM
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OZGOD is right. Talent is fine, but talent needs to be nurtured. I think our cricket board should follow the following Australian policy:

Never bring a player into the national side until he is in his 20s.

Actually, due to our hujogpriyota, we just drag players into the national team based on raw talent. By doing so, we may see charged down the wicket once a year, but this just destroys the raw talent. This dragging of raw talent is not a long term solution, so we shoud focus on preparing a player physically, and mentally before exposing him in international level. We should remember that it not the int'l cricket, it is the domestic cricket where talent can be properly nurtured.

Presently, I see in the forum that people are demanding the inclusion of Rakibul Hasan, and Junaid into the National team. I would say a BIG NO to them. These yound lads should play U-19, A team, domestic cricket until they are 23-25. Then we can consider their inclusion in the national team.
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  #15  
Old April 29, 2007, 12:11 PM
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all good things come to an end at some point. look at the roman empire, the british empire. the rise and fall of cricketing empire is also inevitable.
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  #16  
Old April 29, 2007, 01:03 PM
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insightful analysis indeed. hats off to you, man
Quote:
Originally Posted by OZGOD
The reason for Australia's long term success is because we have a system in place which ensures that the best cricketers get the best preparation, both in first class cricket and even earlier, to ensure that they are physically, mentally and technically ready to compete in international matches.

It's not just about talent - it's about identifying talent early, nurturing it, training it both mentally and physically, then picking the best of these into the OZ XI. It's about being really professional in how you manage the sport.

We only have a small population (20million) and many sports - cricket has to fight for its share of young kids, who get split up between cricket, rugby, league, Aussie Rules, tennis, swimming, football, etc. We don't have a huge pool to choose from like India or Pakistan, so we have to make sure that the ones we do choose are well-prepared.

The thing about the OZ success is that it is not purely down to talent or skill - it's down to attitude, professionalism and a lot of hard work to try to keep improving. Look at the u-19 and u-21 competitions - the OZ don't dominate there to the extent that we do in full-fledged Tests or ODIs. At u-19 and u-21 level we're about even with India, Pakistan, SA or any of the other teams. But when our players move from the ages of 19 to about 23 or 24, they improve at a much faster rate than their counterparts, because they play in a cut-throat district, grade and domestic competition which weeds out the also-rans from the really-good prospects. Then this "cream of the crop" usually has to mark time in the Pura Cup (our FC competition) to make sure that they are mentally and physically prepared to play in high-pressure matches. Then the best of these are cherry-picked to play in the Test side. That's why OZ can pick players out of domestic cricket that nobody else has heard of (e.g. Bracken, Hussey, Clark, Tait, etc) and they slot into the OZ side fully prepared and able to cope with the pressure of international cricket. As an example, before he made his OZ debut, Hussey had scored over 15000 runs and had 35 first class centuries - so by the time he played for the Baggy Greens had already had heaps of experience.

It's very rare for the OZ to pick a young bloke to play for our team if he hasn't played first class cricket in OZ yet - Clarke had to wait, Tait had to wait, and even now there are a lot of exciting young blokes in OZ (Cullen Bailey, Adam Voges, Chris Rogers, Ben Hilfenhaus) who just have to bide their time and continue to hone their skills in the Pura Cup.

Because we have a well-organised structure, it turns into a competitive advantage for us - we don't have to rely on finding the "one-in-a-million" players, the Shane Warnes or the Adam Gilchrists. They're the icing on the cake - but the fundamental base is built from the likes of the Pontings, Haydens, Martyns, McGraths, Brackens, Husseys, etc.

The good news is that it's not impossible to adopt this system - all you need is a visionary leader who can mobilise different elements of your cricket infrastructure and work towards improving it and making it more cohesive:

For the infrastructure
1. get the right set of administrators in place
2. work on improving coaching standards at FC, district and schoolboy level
3. set up a talent identification and management process
4. work to improve the first class domestic competition - make it more competitive and try to make sure that there are pressure matches so that players can get used to playing under pressure
5. make sure you have a succession plan in place. Players are like inventory - they age and need to be replaced. There should always be at least one or two players being "groomed" for each position, should a player retire or lose form.

For the team:
1. get the right coaching staff in place to support the team
2. have a strong leader who can "own" the team and leave his stamp on it
3. ensure that when deficiencies in players are noticed (either mental or technical) that someone works with them to eliminate these. No point dropping a player because he keeps walking across his stumps but then not working with him to fix it, because he will never improve.
4. Work hard on things like athleticism and fitness, so that things like fielding and running between the wickets improve. This is unglamourous but often is the difference between winning and losing.

I guess to summarise, what I'm saying is that all the above can be replicated, as long as someone has the critical mass and vision to implement it. The catalyst for OZ cricket to restructure itself was when we had the mass retirements of Lillee, Chappell and Marsh in the 1980s and our team basically ended up getting hammered by the WI for years. Cricket Australia recognised that we couldn't be in a situation where we were relying on "blind luck" of having talented players coming through - we had to work to make sure that whatever talent we had, that we improved it and made sure it was as prepared as possible. Look at the WI - no system in place, so when the talent dried up they've plummeted from No1 to No8 or 9 in the world.

Talent always helps - and we're lucky to have such a strong cricket culture that we're always unearthing talented players like Tait, Clarke, Symonds, etc - but having a system in place will help build competitiveness when the talent's not always there, and will build on existing talent as well.

My 2c (geez that was a bit long).
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  #17  
Old April 29, 2007, 01:09 PM
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OZGOD or the oz-r-gods ? :S:S

for the time being I can just admire them and hope that we can get some output from the aussie-tiger collaboration dat bcb is planning... bashar and co wanted our team to be modelled on them and being an underdog in world cricket i don't think anyone will mind or mock us! But seriously man, i saw even the aussies cheering the sri lankans at some point of time in the game yesterday, even they must be getting a bit bored of the total domination. It's like the world is their playground and they can get whatever they want whichever way they want!!!

Salute these guys ppl, they are genious/living legends wateva u may call them
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  #18  
Old April 29, 2007, 02:27 PM
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Australia are consistant, enough said.

They dont make silly mistakes in the field, with the bat or ball.

Imagine what would of happenned if fernando didnt drop that catch against Gillchrist, sending him packing for 18
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  #19  
Old April 29, 2007, 02:45 PM
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nothing would have happened if they had lose two or three more wickets. Then Hayden, Ponting, Symonds, Clarke or Hussey would have to play the pivotal role, this is as simple as that. In fact Gilly was not in a glorious form until the final, but they had won every matches convincingly.
here is the average of aussie batsmen in this world cup

Hayden - 653 at 73.22
Ponting - 539 at 67.37
Gilly - 453 at 45.30
Clarke - 436 at 87.20
Symonds - 189 at 63.00
Hodge - 152 at 76.00
Watson - 145 at 145.00
Hussey - 87 at 17.40

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Naf
Imagine what would of happenned if fernando didnt drop that catch against Gillchrist, sending him packing for 18
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  #20  
Old April 30, 2007, 12:27 PM
BangladeshCricket BangladeshCricket is offline
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Yea OZGOD your analysis answered all the questions about the great Aussie team and it's cricketing structure. Hard to believe Hussey scoring 15000 and having 35 first class centuries...whereas we know how we select our national team players!!
It's the system that determines and creates great players like Aussies.
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  #21  
Old April 30, 2007, 12:30 PM
BangladeshCricket BangladeshCricket is offline
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I think OZGOD analysis is front page material..Mods plz consider it posting to front page..What you guys think?
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  #22  
Old April 30, 2007, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One World
One thing for sure Aussies definitely mastered the art of mind game in and out of the field. Bullying, Pressuring the opponents with body language, arguing with the umpire on every controversial decision, making comments about the opponent and their best players right before the series (and even during the world cup matches) has been a critical part of Ponting era. Before the final Tom Moody was forced to make statements like "Mind your own business" against his fellow countrymen! I wonder after Ponting who will lead the team and will there be enough blood to take care of all of these non-sportive tasks.
Just to add a little fire, did anyone notice Ponting screaming and yelling against the umpire after he was warned? I think the umpires need to have ability to give technical fouls instead of receiving the abuse. Two technical fouls and you are out of here. Just like basketball. Respect the game, respect the umpires, respect the opponents. This is a gentleman's game and play it accordingly on the field.

Ponting would have been Dennis Rodman of Cricket.
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  #23  
Old April 30, 2007, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
Just to add a little fire, did anyone notice Ponting screaming and yelling against the umpire after he was warned? I think the umpires need to have ability to give technical fouls instead of receiving the abuse. Two technical fouls and you are out of here. Just like basketball. Respect the game, respect the umpires, respect the opponents. This is a gentleman's game and play it accordingly on the field.

Ponting would have been Dennis Rodman of Cricket.
Ponting screamed? Guess I didnt catch that...
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  #24  
Old April 30, 2007, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BD4eva
Ponting screamed? Guess I didnt catch that...
I think Tiger's Eye is taking a bit of literary license in his description of Ponting's reaction. Tales grow in the telling - before long we'll be hearing stories of how Ponting attacked the umpire with his bat!:p
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Old April 30, 2007, 03:13 PM
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I bet 2011 will have a different champion. Australia was lucky that all three cups where outside Aisa. yeah I know they won the 87/86 WC in Pakistan but at that time ICC was in their hands so Asian countries couldn't make Spin pitches.
I hope SL, India, pak and BD makes only spin pitches for next four years.
Then spin them all out in 2011 lol
That's my 4 cent
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