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  #1  
Old May 10, 2007, 03:11 PM
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damalChele damalChele is offline
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Default Dav Whatmore's role in Bashar's deffensive method of captaincy

Like everyone else I am frustrated too about Bashar's poor performance with bat. There are a lot of anger from the fans about his poor captaincy. He is always deffensive when we need a wicket. His fielding setting is awful at times. Singles everywhere.

Dav is the head coach and is responsible for nurturing our young talents. He passes his wisdom on to them and puts them on the right track towards becomeing world class cricketers. To teach them the right things is his job.

Can anyone tell me how much of a role does the head coach play in terms of teaching the trade of captaincy business?

Surely, Bashar is instructed/taught to be deffensive on the field by Dav. If that's the case then shouldn't Dav Whatmore deserve some of the heat Bashar is receiving?
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  #2  
Old May 10, 2007, 03:14 PM
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reyme reyme is offline
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Absolutely. What does Dav do anyways during the match?
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  #3  
Old May 10, 2007, 03:17 PM
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Ekon ar heat diye ki hobe bhaia. He is leaving soon anyways. Bottomline is, kau no shikte chaile take shikano jayna.
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  #4  
Old May 10, 2007, 03:17 PM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reyme
What does Dav do anyways during the match?
Negociating his next deal may be. No...?
In that case busy tanning his udombor body I guess.
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  #5  
Old May 10, 2007, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reyme
Absolutely. What does Dav do anyways during the match?
He makes sure the doughnut boxes are empty...
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  #6  
Old May 10, 2007, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Naf
He makes sure the doughnut boxes are empty...
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  #7  
Old May 10, 2007, 03:27 PM
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FaridpurChicago FaridpurChicago is offline
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We lost the match because of Bashar, Dav and the umpire (oh, that lbw to Dhoni). Any one from this trio could win us the match. We shouldn't blame our players (P.S. Bashar not a player).
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  #8  
Old May 10, 2007, 03:44 PM
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dav aint so stupid2tell bashr to b olways defensive.dav is gr8 job.he sure taugh bashr wht do when.4get dav,any cricketer will know that whn the batsman arent goin4big hits but relying on singles ...there shld b 6 men inside the circle.....
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  #9  
Old May 10, 2007, 03:51 PM
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yup..... gadha pitayee ki ar Goru Banano Jai? Jai Na...


Kintu ultimate responsibility-ta (of failure) to ustad keyee Netay Hoi. Hoi Na?
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  #10  
Old May 10, 2007, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damalChele
Like everyone else I am frustrated too about Bashar's poor performance with bat. There are a lot of anger from the fans about his poor captaincy. He is always deffensive when we need a wicket. His fielding setting is awful at times. Singles everywhere.

Dav is the head coach and is responsible for nurturing our young talents. He passes his wisdom on to them and puts them on the right track towards becomeing world class cricketers. To teach them the right things is his job.

Can anyone tell me how much of a role does the head coach play in terms of teaching the trade of captaincy business?

Surely, Bashar is instructed/taught to be deffensive on the field by Dav. If that's the case then shouldn't Dav Whatmore deserve some of the heat Bashar is receiving?
coaches don't play and and we still have OTHER selectors the last time i checked... oh, and go ahead and revisit the traditions of cricket captaincy... the task, responsibilities etc...
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  #11  
Old May 10, 2007, 04:05 PM
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Question to Bashar: why you didn't instill another fielder or two within the circle when india was in trouble?

Expected Reply: I am not a risk taker. If I had put another one or two fielders within the circle then the match could have been over 5 overs early. They could go over the top and score boundaries.

Question to bashar: Well that is the idea. It forces the batsmen to chose a specific route which is much risky for the batsmen than easy singles.

Expected Reply: There are other ways of getting out. Such as bowled and LBW.

Question to Bashar: But a captain need to attack when a new batsman comes in.

Expected Reply: As I said, I am not a risk taker. I wait till opponent batsmen make mistakes. We won that way against SA.

Question to Bashar: We understand that but you play the game according to your strength. If you put 7 in the box and let SLAs bowl, opponent wouldn't find the gap that easy. If the singles dry up the pressure builds. Its simple equation.

Expected Reply: My equation is different than yours. I do everything for the team.


I think above is the mindset of Bashar shaheb. He can't/don't like changes. For continuous improvement change is necessary Bashar shaheb. Be it in business world or sports.

The point of all this is to show he may not believe in aggressive fielding and putting pressure on opponents. Thus he may even not know that what he is doing is wrong in specific time. as Sadi said, You can't teach someone who don't want to learn.
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  #12  
Old May 10, 2007, 04:13 PM
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If Dav Whatmore wanted to change the captain, he would have done this long time before. He didn't do that cuz Bashar listens to him very well.. And can do some chamchami... which new captain won't.. Ashraful or Nafees are not like Bashar.. they are more straight-forward.. they will work with their own strategies..

Now new coach coming.. and that coach will not continue with BAshar thats for sure.. He will be demanding a new captain.
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  #13  
Old May 10, 2007, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
Question to Bashar: why you didn't instill another fielder or two within the circle when india was in trouble?

Expected Reply: I am not a risk taker. If I had put another one or two fielders within the circle then the match could have been over 5 overs early. They could go over the top and score boundaries.

Question to bashar: Well that is the idea. It forces the batsmen to chose a specific route which is much risky for the batsmen than easy singles.

Expected Reply: There are other ways of getting out. Such as bowled and LBW.

Question to Bashar: But a captain need to attack when a new batsman comes in.

Expected Reply: As I said, I am not a risk taker. I wait till opponent batsmen make mistakes. We won that way against SA.

Question to Bashar: We understand that but you play the game according to your strength. If you put 7 in the box and let SLAs bowl, opponent wouldn't find the gap that easy. If the singles dry up the pressure builds. Its simple equation.

Expected Reply: My equation is different than yours. I do everything for the team.


I think above is the mindset of Bashar shaheb. He can't/don't like changes. For continuous improvement change is necessary Bashar shaheb. Be it in business world or sports.

The point of all this is to show he may not believe in aggressive fielding and putting pressure on opponents. Thus he may even not know that what he is doing is wrong in specific time. as Sadi said, You can't teach someone who don't want to learn.
The Answers (sure you can chose more than just one...): -

A) /

B) /

C) /

Last edited by Sohel; May 11, 2007 at 02:06 PM..
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  #14  
Old May 10, 2007, 07:05 PM
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knightrider357 knightrider357 is offline
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DAv was Srilanka's coach during 1996 world cup... how can u even say that he has a role in the defensive method of our captain!!!...
if that was the case, Jayasuria & Kalu wouldnt have opened the innings, SL wouldn't have placed attacking fielding during any of the games... and they wouldnt have won the WOrld cup for sure....
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  #15  
Old May 10, 2007, 07:26 PM
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I think we give Dav too much credit for Sri Lanka's success and forget that they had a thinking manager in Duleep Mendis (who is believed to be the one came up with the idea of sending Jayasuriya and Kaluwitharana to open) and an aggressive captain in Arjuna Ranatunga.

I don't know if Dav has anything to do with Bashar's defensive captaincy, but he sure has done nothing to change it.
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  #16  
Old May 10, 2007, 07:43 PM
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All our old players played defensively. I am referring to Akram khan days. Basher is the last remaining old players and he still has that old mentality even though his batting outstrips his old team mates.
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  #17  
Old May 10, 2007, 09:29 PM
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We lost because we could not take wickets - spin trio did not produce any unexpected results!
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  #18  
Old May 11, 2007, 01:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
Question to Bashar: why you didn't instill another fielder or two within the circle when india was in trouble?

Expected Reply: I am not a risk taker. If I had put another one or two fielders within the circle then the match could have been over 5 overs early. They could go over the top and score boundaries.

Question to bashar: Well that is the idea. It forces the batsmen to chose a specific route which is much risky for the batsmen than easy singles.

Expected Reply: There are other ways of getting out. Such as bowled and LBW.

Question to Bashar: But a captain need to attack when a new batsman comes in.

Expected Reply: As I said, I am not a risk taker. I wait till opponent batsmen make mistakes. We won that way against SA.

Question to Bashar: We understand that but you play the game according to your strength. If you put 7 in the box and let SLAs bowl, opponent wouldn't find the gap that easy. If the singles dry up the pressure builds. Its simple equation.

Expected Reply: My equation is different than yours. I do everything for the team.


I think above is the mindset of Bashar shaheb. He can't/don't like changes. For continuous improvement change is necessary Bashar shaheb. Be it in business world or sports.

The point of all this is to show he may not believe in aggressive fielding and putting pressure on opponents. Thus he may even not know that what he is doing is wrong in specific time. as Sadi said, You can't teach someone who don't want to learn.
Good one.
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  #19  
Old May 11, 2007, 03:53 AM
Adnan 666 Adnan 666 is offline
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Default Reply to Dav's Role in Bashar's deffensive method of captaincy

Boro Bhais,

No disrespect to your comments about Whatmore, I also support that a coach should assist a captain on their captaincy before or during the match. But one doesn't need a coach to take decisions on such an easy situation like we were in yesterday (144/5). I swear even my chauffer figured out that HA BA Sumon is letting the the game slip.

I believe that Dav surely tells him to correct his defensive approach but unfortunately our captain doesn't possess the guts to be little aggressive and lacks basics cricketing knowledge. No one can help it if a captain is like that, because on the field its upto the captain to take the decisions. He is a prime example to all the upcoming cricketers for not being like him as a player even at the lowest point of their career.We have to get rid of this fellow as soon as possible because he is wasting a team spot. I am sorry to say such harsh words but it is the bitter truth.
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  #20  
Old May 11, 2007, 05:49 AM
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hmmmmmmmmm, Nafees even though he is out of form and wateva he would probably be a better captain than bashar, BASHAR BLOODY GOT NO RUNS!! HE MADE ME CRY!! guyz shouldnt make girls cry......hehe,anywyaz, hmm,ashraful isnt aggressive enough(well im probably saying that cos i like nafees better :P) i can imagine nafees as captain now.....yelling instructions (winning instructions), and leading bangladesh to kick asses (i wish, inshaallah, my vision will become reality................)
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  #21  
Old May 11, 2007, 08:13 AM
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I dont think a captain gets his traits from the coach..Bash's spineless gait, attitude and nervous smile has been long before so dont bring Dav into this.

His form is not the problem..his mindset is. Cant even decide when he is supposed to bat! no thinking during fielding.
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  #22  
Old May 11, 2007, 09:12 AM
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aaa.... i doubt does whatmore have influence on bashars captaincy... ive seen a live example... bashar doesnt listen to anyone... at two instance on thursdays game... saqib\razzak i dont remember who the spinner was... they asked bashar to bring the fielders in he said no its ok you bowl... in the penultimate over... rasel loudly said bashar bhai long of raikhen na ore upre ananen single thamak o.. he said rasel tui chinta korsih na ball kor tui! sooo i doubt does he do anything different when dave tells him something... i guess he replies with hey my defensive strategies have always worked sooo dont criticize it... ?! we shouldnt criticize dav about this... yes blame bashar he should be blamed upon... but dav is the one who brought us here ... we should always be thankfull to him... anyways... i hope i dont create another dav whatmore debate on this forum... there are wayyy to many for what succes he has brought us! goo tigers tomorrow we will win INSHALLAH!
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  #23  
Old May 11, 2007, 10:53 AM
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reyme reyme is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abd_Bakri
aaa.... i doubt does whatmore have influence on bashars captaincy... ive seen a live example...
Look everything is happening right before the very eyes of coach, manager, selector. If they see mistakes are being done, and a winning game is becoming a losing one just like that, then I blame all of those people along with the captain.

They can take out the captain and inject the 12th man and let the vice captain take over. Here is an equivalent example: the director of a hospital is watching his head surgeon making serious mistake causing the patient die, yet he does not intervene.

Trust me if Dav was a Major League Baseball Coach(manager), he would be fired the next day for his robotic presence along with a robot captain!
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  #24  
Old May 11, 2007, 11:44 AM
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hahahaha taking out an captain.... and sending a 12th man... has that ever happened... seriously that has to be very shameful for us! anyways... i was deeply dissapointed about the way bashar captained... and i wouldnt blame it on whatmore at all... !
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  #25  
Old May 11, 2007, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abd_Bakri
hahahaha taking out an captain.... and sending a 12th man... has that ever happened... seriously that has to be very shameful for us! anyways... i was deeply dissapointed about the way bashar captained... and i wouldnt blame it on whatmore at all... !
That has happened. And it was very Ricky Pointing that did that. Its not shameful at all. Just think of Sonia Gandhi and the current goverment and that analogy should come close.

But I think I will go back to what we feared before. Not being professional about the game fell right at the face. Allowing sentiment to rule works in a soccer match, where you let your 'once upon a time player' play for 20 mins before he takes off and you still change players. Cricket is not soccer.. Bashar should NOT HAVE been selected for the ODIs. It doesnt matter the issue of vacume in the captaincy. There are other players who has captained before at local/age level in the squad. Morever, if you call what Bashar does as captaincy,, then heck, even Shahadat can arrange such 'so obvious' field and "Captain" the squad.

It was a mistake by Faruque to let Bashar loose after the world cup. It was a mistake for other selectors to allow Bashar to continue to think that he is safe. Certainly, Bashar is a shameless, selfish, money greedy ( ex) player who only thinks of himself than the team or the country. As a player he was always like that... playing for himself than thinking about the innings ( i.e, coming at 3 against india, WC vs. Australia etc.). Its a sheer disgrace that he completely ignores any suggestion by anyone,, forget the fans, even his team mates in the field. Thats sign of a person when he becomes a bigot, heavy headed and useless. His success as captain has little to do with him.. it was the Ashrafuls, Tamims, Aftabs, Mashrafees that contributed throughout. He definitely lost his chance to retire gracefully.
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