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  #1  
Old June 1, 2007, 08:14 PM
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Default mushfiqur rahim

Wow is he reaaly that bad at wicket keeping? I thought he had a good world cup and kept the team goin with "bowliiiing aaah yees moina ooooh lala". lol. we all know that his batting is way better than that of pilot's, but can he be considered as a specialist batsemen? it is a well known fact that a team must field their best wicket keeper in test matches, and pilot is certainly the best keeper in bd. soo, is there any chance the selectors wil take a gamble and choose mushfiq's batting capabilities as a factor for dropping pilot. also, what are the chances of another keeper other than pilor and mushfiq playing? i hav heard names such as saghir hossain but i dont really know much about them. can anyone please suggest any other quality wicket keepers bd have, and what are the chances of them replacing pilot, or would mushfoq be wicket keeping against sri lanka?
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  #2  
Old June 1, 2007, 08:25 PM
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Well! on the strength of Pilot's showing in the recent test series, Rahim can hardly be much worse at keeping. If I was one of the selectors I would go with Rahim and ask Pilot to go back to the domestic arena, and prove himself, or retire.
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  #3  
Old June 1, 2007, 08:52 PM
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Well, if the recent series against India is any indication, Mushfiq seems to better than Pilot in keeping nowadays as well...I have a feeling that Pilots end is coming soon, that is, assuming it hasnt already come.
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  #4  
Old June 1, 2007, 10:36 PM
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rahim should come and play in tests. he has good body language.
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Old June 1, 2007, 11:38 PM
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I was always for Rahim to be playing test matches after the WC cup rather than bringing back Pilot. Pilot is a "has been" for us and would only hold the team back if he is included again for the next series.
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  #6  
Old June 1, 2007, 11:48 PM
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Musfiq is a pretty good player under pressure and I think he can make a real positive contribution in tests with his bat but also his gloves. It's correct that his technique isn't great, but I'm sure he's been working on that.

He has a very good batting technique specially against spinners and I think he would be a good adition to the test team as a wicketkeeper for now and hopefully for a long time to come.
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  #7  
Old June 1, 2007, 11:50 PM
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pilot's the better keeper, mushy's the better batsman in a batting-challanged team. pilot's the past and mushy's the future. mushy... easy choice.
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  #8  
Old June 2, 2007, 04:40 AM
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Sohel : bro.. i woudnt agree.. PILOT was a better keeper.. but his recent India tour didnt helped much in that case.. Mushfiqur is a better test player than ODI..i mean common in LORD's test he was picked as a genuine batsman! and he was praised.. He handled english bowlers in england when he was 16!! how come he gets ignored when he is more matured..and against Indian medicore attack..Anyway Im reliefed now the selectors now Pilot isnt good enough..anymore. Mushfiqur should be given chances..and should start from SL tour.
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  #9  
Old June 2, 2007, 05:04 AM
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yeh but what about other keepers such as saghir hossain and others, who else can handle the gloves? can anyine shed some light on this please
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  #10  
Old June 2, 2007, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protic
Sohel : bro.. i woudnt agree.. PILOT was a better keeper.. but his recent India tour didnt helped much in that case.. Mushfiqur is a better test player than ODI..i mean common in LORD's test he was picked as a genuine batsman! and he was praised.. He handled english bowlers in england when he was 16!! how come he gets ignored when he is more matured..and against Indian medicore attack..Anyway Im reliefed now the selectors now Pilot isnt good enough..anymore. Mushfiqur should be given chances..and should start from SL tour.
i'm relieved myself bro... i think mushy will learn to keep better faster than anyone anticipates. the boy's ALL cricket.
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  #11  
Old June 2, 2007, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truetruetiger
yeh but what about other keepers such as saghir hossain and others, who else can handle the gloves? can anyine shed some light on this please
dhiman's keeping is better than saghir's. so's his batting, but not as technically sound as mushy's. besides, mushy has too many other important qualities bangladesh could use more.
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Old June 2, 2007, 05:20 AM
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Dhimans batting is aweful.. ive seen him bat. And he is very .. mmm weak.. looks weak.
Saghir.. donno much about him.. but Mushy is the best we have now.
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  #13  
Old June 2, 2007, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel NR
dhiman's keeping is better than saghir's. so's his batting, but not as technically sound as mushy's. besides, mushy has too many other important qualities bangladesh could use more.
Have to disagree here,

Saghir is a better keeper and obviously better batsman.

I don't know the rationale of your statement, whether you've seen them on field or anything else. But record will not speak for your observation.
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  #14  
Old June 2, 2007, 05:45 AM
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Mushy has definitely a very good crecketing brain which he already proved at under 19 level. But I guess he should work hard on his batting, specially I want to see some very long good innings from him. He should work on getting centuries in domestic games.

Pilot is off as far as performance is concern, Mushy is on and Sagir is definitely on Mushy's neck.
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  #15  
Old June 2, 2007, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel NR
i'm relieved myself bro... i think mushy will learn to keep better faster than anyone anticipates. the boy's ALL cricket.
Absolutely no doubt about that in my mind.

And for all the mistakes he makes, and there are certainly are a few, he's also managed to pull off several top class stumpings in his brief career. Clearly he has the basic material to be a fine wicketkeeper.
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  #16  
Old June 2, 2007, 09:28 AM
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well mushfiq was chosen over pilot for world cup...so i think selectors may choose him again for the upcoming series...and i believe they should! he is a decent wicket keeper, a good batsman...not to mention a very good "cheerleader" who is fun to watch/listen to and provides inspiration to the bowlers.
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  #17  
Old June 2, 2007, 10:28 AM
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i think mush is better in both wicketkeeping n batting. he should b in d tests frm now.
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  #18  
Old June 2, 2007, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protic
Dhimans batting is aweful.. ive seen him bat. And he is very .. mmm weak.. looks weak.
Saghir.. donno much about him.. but Mushy is the best we have now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miraz
Have to disagree here,

Saghir is a better keeper and obviously better batsman.

I don't know the rationale of your statement, whether you've seen them on field or anything else. But record will not speak for your observation.
mushy's my first choice keeper, just want to be clear on that.

my high opinion of dhiman's based on personal observations from: 1) what i've seen of him during the last nationals; 2) from what i've read in the papers; and 3) cricinfo stats. i don't care much about how weak or unglamorous he looks.

as a keeper, he converts dismissal opportunities to dismissals well. his keen sense of positioning and the ability to recover quickly from unsound positions, similar to a good ice-hockey goalie like patrick roy if that makes any sense to anybody else here, makes his a pretty safe pair of hands behind the stumps.

as a batsman, he's sensible and has the ability to change his game. he bats more comfortably lower down the order and converts 50s to 100s well. he's also a good fielder and a decent enough bowler. he's an important, automatic choice for chittagong.

my rationale: stats from the nationals, look at the runs and the dismissals. unfortunately, dismissal opprtunities are not a catagory yet, but perhaps should be. anyway, judge for yourselves: -

dhiman's 4-day matches at the nationals: -

http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/267233.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/267236.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/269232.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/267239.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/267242.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/280721.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/280725.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/280728.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/280986.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/280988.html

dhiman's limited over matches at the nationals: -

http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/267249.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/267252.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/267254.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/267256.html
http://ind.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2...CLOD_04APR2007

dhiman's career stats: http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/ci/c...yer/56208.html

saghir's a good keeper too, but better positioning gives dhiman the edge in my book. i'm not impressed by his batting. his conversion ratio from 50s to 100s does not impress me either. slogs little too often for my taste.

saghir's 4-day matches at the nationals: -

http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/267232.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/267235.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/269231.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/267242.html

saghir was replaced by salim from this point on, and didn't play any limited over matches from what i know.

saghir's career stats: http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/ci/c...yer/56158.html

for the record, and looking at the recent FC stats, i don't think saghir's better.
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Last edited by Sohel; June 2, 2007 at 07:42 PM..
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  #19  
Old June 3, 2007, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel NR
mushy's my first choice keeper, just want to be clear on that.

my high opinion of dhiman's based on personal observations from: 1) what i've seen of him during the last nationals; 2) from what i've read in the papers; and 3) cricinfo stats. i don't care much about how weak or unglamorous he looks.

as a keeper, he converts dismissal opportunities to dismissals well. his keen sense of positioning and the ability to recover quickly from unsound positions, similar to a good ice-hockey goalie like patrick roy if that makes any sense to anybody else here, makes his a pretty safe pair of hands behind the stumps.

as a batsman, he's sensible and has the ability to change his game. he bats more comfortably lower down the order and converts 50s to 100s well. he's also a good fielder and a decent enough bowler. he's an important, automatic choice for chittagong.

my rationale: stats from the nationals, look at the runs and the dismissals. unfortunately, dismissal opprtunities are not a catagory yet, but perhaps should be. anyway, judge for yourselves: -

dhiman's 4-day matches at the nationals: -

http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/267233.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/267236.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/269232.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/267239.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/267242.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/280721.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/280725.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/280728.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/280986.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/280988.html

dhiman's limited over matches at the nationals: -

http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/267249.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/267252.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/267254.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/267256.html
http://ind.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2...CLOD_04APR2007

dhiman's career stats: http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/ci/c...yer/56208.html

saghir's a good keeper too, but better positioning gives dhiman the edge in my book. i'm not impressed by his batting. his conversion ratio from 50s to 100s does not impress me either. slogs little too often for my taste.

saghir's 4-day matches at the nationals: -

http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/267232.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/267235.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/269231.html
http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/bang...ch/267242.html

saghir was replaced by salim from this point on, and didn't play any limited over matches from what i know.

saghir's career stats: http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/ci/c...yer/56158.html

for the record, and looking at the recent FC stats, i don't think saghir's better.
Bloody hell, you really do know Bangladeshi cricket inside out don't you?

Great post.
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  #20  
Old June 3, 2007, 08:20 AM
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haha lol i second that
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  #21  
Old June 3, 2007, 08:34 AM
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Sohel NR, you have digged up some scorecards of Dhiman and Saghir but ignored (probably you missed those matches) some batting of Saghir which places him well ahead of Dhiman, and those are very recent matches.

Here's Saghir's match saving 70 against England A in February 2007

Here's Saghir's 86 against England A in Feb 2007

Career stat between Saghir and Dhiman does not make much difference, apart from domestic first class matches, Saghir always proved a better option in Bangladesh A team matches.

And 2 centuries never judge a players ability to convert 50's into 100's, way to go. I think Saghir's one century and 9 half-centuries compared to Dhiman's 2 centuries and 5 half centuries prompted you to the conclusion. It's way too early to comment bro.
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Last edited by Miraz; June 3, 2007 at 08:40 AM..
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  #22  
Old June 3, 2007, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by layperson
I was always for Rahim to be playing test matches after the WC cup rather than bringing back Pilot. Pilot is a "has been" for us and would only hold the team back if he is included again for the next series.
A Hasbeen who made it possible for Bangladesh to even play test cricket?
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Old June 3, 2007, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SideWinder
A Hasbeen who made it possible for Bangladesh to even play test cricket?
yeh its true that pilot has been great for us over the years and is one factors of why we are actually playing test cricket. But this is international crikcet at the highest standard for you, you have to make bold decisions and axe your big players at one stage of their career and pilot's time has now come. thank you and goodbye
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Old June 3, 2007, 09:47 AM
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seein mashuds keeping this test series,no one can realli say dat pilot is a better keeper than mushy
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  #25  
Old June 3, 2007, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miraz
Sohel NR, you have digged up some scorecards of Dhiman and Saghir but ignored (probably you missed those matches) some batting of Saghir which places him well ahead of Dhiman, and those are very recent matches.

Here's Saghir's match saving 70 against England A in February 2007

Here's Saghir's 86 against England A in Feb 2007

Career stat between Saghir and Dhiman does not make much difference, apart from domestic first class matches, Saghir always proved a better option in Bangladesh A team matches.

And 2 centuries never judge a players ability to convert 50's into 100's, way to go. I think Saghir's one century and 9 half-centuries compared to Dhiman's 2 centuries and 5 half centuries prompted you to the conclusion. It's way too early to comment bro.
thanks for the stats Miraz bhai. good performances with the bat. i have always been more interested in the keeping skills possessed by a keeper, as his core competency... that's just me and that's what a lot of the focus has been about in my posts here. obviously batting's important also. i mean let's not kid ourselves, we won't have mushy where he is in our thoughts today without that bat. i for one am really glad that he's there.

the presumptive tone as to my narcissistic intent to put up an argument with available stats just for the sake it, if that's what it was, is a bit uncalled for. on the other hand, if it is coming from nothing other than good faith extrapolations, i apologize in advance for my own presumptions. we obviously have a difference of opinion here and i don't have a problem with that. neither do you, i'm sure.

i did attend quite a few of the national league matches in and around dhaka, and my opinion of the two is based on what i've seen of them. what i've seen obviously influence the way i look at the available stats. frankly, i think dhiman continues to get the shaft beyond a certain level simply because saghir's a bit flashier, and not because of any performance standards at the domestic first class level. those standards and measures do not exist as tangible elements of BCB's selection policy to my knowledge. come to think of it, i don't think there is a somewhat objective selection policy based on predetermined criteria and measures that define and assess talent, and thoroughly analyze individual performances on the field beyond the half-baked.

your last two paragraphs, especially the bit about it being too early to comment. i agree bro. it may also be too early to comment on dhiman's batting for BD-A. but then again, we have to work with what we have at hand. comparative stats are always a good place to start, keeping in mind that they are no more than the oversimplified abstractions from a series of significanlty more complex and heterogeneous processes, abstractions that can serve as the better strategic toolkit we can use to make more reasonable choices by the end of the day. the net worth of the early analysis, both in your case and mine, has value only when duly contextualized in terms of all the perceived realities connected to the process.

dhiman's conversion ratio, according to the stats at hand, is better at this point in time, just as saghir's batting performance for BD-A maybe better in comparison. i mean what else is there at this juncture?

(BTW- i say maybe because i don't know as i haven't seen dhiman's BD-A batting stats. but you'll get the benefit of my doubt any day of the week, month, year or decade for that matter. based on what i've seen so far, like some of dhiman and saghir's performances behind the stumps as well as with the bat, cricinfo and even wisden is missing-out on your erudition. i'm not just saying that because i'm a Miraz fan, but because that's what i think despite my intellectual limitations.)
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Last edited by Sohel; June 3, 2007 at 09:38 PM..
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