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  #1  
Old June 5, 2007, 02:33 PM
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Default Stranded pakistanis site.

http://www.statelesspeopleinbangladesh.net/home.php

This site is quite touching.
I found the "message to Bangladeshi friends" interesting
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  #2  
Old June 5, 2007, 04:58 PM
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Touching indeed...
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  #3  
Old June 5, 2007, 07:24 PM
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I don't wanna invite hatred, coz I am 100% Bangladeshi. But I've seen one person from deep inside, who belongs to a family of which 7 out of 10 people in the family have been killed by mukti bahini.

I would dare not say that all these victims are innocent, or all are culprits. But I'll just say this much, that the outcome of the '71 war was very cruel. We just heard our part of the story. We never bothered to hear **some** of others' stories, that are worth listening to.
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  #4  
Old June 5, 2007, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabir
I don't wanna invite hatred, coz I am 100% Bangladeshi. But I've seen one person from deep inside, who belongs to a family of which 7 out of 10 people in the family have been killed by mukti bahini.

I would dare not say that all these victims are innocent, or all are culprits. But I'll just say this much, that the outcome of the '71 war was very cruel. We just heard our part of the story. We never bothered to hear **some** of others' stories, that are worth listening to.
"truth is the first casualty of war" as they say.
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  #5  
Old June 5, 2007, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ammark
"truth is the first casualty of war" as they say.
Yes, unfortunately. Among those 7 were 2 kids (one 11, and other 14). Makes me wonder whether "sanity" is the second casualty of war.
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  #6  
Old June 5, 2007, 11:40 PM
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Javed Omar Belim is a "stranded Pakistani". The so called community leaders in Geneva Camp can learn everything they need to from him and embrace the reality of being Bangladeshi... everything except batting positively and rotating the strike.

Individuals commit crimes that need to be proven in a court of law, not entire communities. My immediate and extended family was severely victimized by the Pak Army, the Al-Badr and the Al-Shams during the Liberation War, while the other half took up arms and faught in the alleyways of old Dhaka, the coastal belt of Noakhali, and the hills of Khagr'hachor'hi light years away from the comforts of Kolkata.

We never did, still don't and will never have any issues with that particular community as a community. The luchi, chaap and oddly enough, the chicken corn soup still remain a major part of what we love as Dhakaiyas. Politically speaking, we should look at the real issues that have plagued Bangladesh for the last 18 years, issues such as corruption, unemployment and underemployment, education, class violence, meaningful wealth creation and growth of the middle classes, and Wahabi-inspired fascism calling itself "Islamic" - and try to be an active part of the solution.
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  #7  
Old June 5, 2007, 11:44 PM
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So is Atahar Ali Khan I think. And I'm sure about Akram Khan, and the Iqbal brothers.

I guess JO fell out of the loop in being like them
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  #8  
Old June 5, 2007, 11:54 PM
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akram khan too..
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  #9  
Old June 6, 2007, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabir
I don't wanna invite hatred, coz I am 100% Bangladeshi. But I've seen one person from deep inside, who belongs to a family of which 7 out of 10 people in the family have been killed by mukti bahini.

I would dare not say that all these victims are innocent, or all are culprits. But I'll just say this much, that the outcome of the '71 war was very cruel. We just heard our part of the story. We never bothered to hear **some** of others' stories, that are worth listening to.
Innocent people were killed on both sides. Just like innocent Bangladeshis were killed by the P. Army for being Bengali, similarly many Urdu speaking people were killed for no crime apart from supporting a united Pakistan. Admittedly, many more Bangladeshis were killed than Urdu-Speakers.
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  #10  
Old June 6, 2007, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabir
So is Atahar Ali Khan I think. And I'm sure about Akram Khan, and the Iqbal brothers.

I guess JO fell out of the loop in being like them
Ata is half real Pakistani, not the "stranded" kind. The Chittagonian Khan family is not a part of that community. All "Urduwalas" are not "stranded Pakistanis" BTW. The Khandani families of Rajshahi, Tangail, Dhaka and Chittagong cultivated Urdu since before Emperor Akbar sent their anscestors to the outposts of Dhaka, Chittagong and elsewhere as Subedars and Hawaldars under the Nawab, who replaced the rebellious 12 Bhuiyans led by another "Urduwala", Isa Khan. Nawab Sir Salimullah of Dhaka then initiated the Muslim renaissance in general, and Bangali Muslim renassance in particualr with Habibullah Bahar Chaudhury and Begum Shams-un-Nahar of greater Noakhali during the turn of the last century. They became the Bangali Muslim elite who cultivated Bangla, Dhakaiya, and Chittagonian cultures, spearheaded all Bangali Muslim cultural movements. Dr. Muhammad Shahidullah came from one of those families.

My family did not escape to India when the killing started, and talked big from the safety of Kolkata and Agartala. My father was interned and tourtured throughout the war, two of my aunts gang-raped by Pak soldiers before one of them took up arms and the other served as a nurse, 9 of my uncles fought with distinction, one of them -Shahidullah Khan Badal, Bir Protic (title returned on principle), one of the very first band of Dhaka University students to join the yet to be formed Mukti Bahini on the 27th of March under the late Bir Uttom Khaled Moshrraf in Brammonbar'hia - went on to command Freedom Fighters in and around Old Dhaka. Others joined Bir Uttom Ziaur Rahman in greater Noakhali and Chittagong later. Others joined (later Colonel and Major General respectively) Taher and Manzoor uncles in and around greater Mymensingh. Later 2 of them were martyred at the hands of the Pak Army, and 1 at the hands of the Al-Badar and Al-Shams. Some of my great uncles and close family friends and colleagues from Dhaka University were murdered at the hands of the Al-Badar and Al-Shams also during the closing stages of the war. I went to school (ULab before moving to the US in '79) with Shobhon, son of the Late Dr. Mofazzal Haider Chaudhury, Tonmoy, son of the late Dr. Munir Chaudhury, and Miti, daughter of the late Dr. Golam Murtaza. We also lost innocent Urdu-speaking friends who were murdered by the Mujib (not Mukti) bahini after liberation, before they became Rakkhi Bahini and murdered close to 30,000 left- wing Muktijoddhas and activists. We lost many family members and friends during those years also.
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  #11  
Old June 6, 2007, 12:24 AM
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i used to live in mdpur in my school life. i used to cut my hair in the bihari barbar shop. They are really good at hair cutting and massage. And the chap (fried beef/chicken) that they sell is just awesome. They still speak in Urdu even though most of them was born after the independence. It is said that they helped the Pak army during the war as a dalal but i'm sure not all of them did that job.
However, given the fact that most of them are born after the independent so we cannot lebel them as bitrayer. It is very true that we still look down at them. I studied in Dhaka residential model college, geneva camp is just behind the college. I have seen their life for years. They are fair and good looking ppl. Extremely poor and negleted. I always felt bad for them.
It's about time to move forward. I Hope CTG will do something..
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  #12  
Old June 6, 2007, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunny747
i used to live in mdpur in my school life. i used to cut my hair in the bihari barbar shop. They are really good at hair cutting and massage. And the chap (fried beef/chicken) that they sell is just awesome. They still speak in Urdu even though most of them was born after the independence. It is said that they helped the Pak army during the war as a dalal but i'm sure not all of them did that job.
However, given the fact that most of them are born after the independent so we cannot lebel them as bitrayer. It is very true that we still look down at them. I studied in Dhaka residential model college, geneva camp is just behind the college. I have seen their life for years. They are fair and good looking ppl. Extremely poor and negleted. I always felt bad for them.
It's about time to move forward. I Hope CTG will do something..
my sentiments exactly. bangali, bihari and adibashi, we're all bangladeshi. BTW, do you know titu from RMC, probably your senior?
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  #13  
Old June 6, 2007, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel NR
All "Urduwalas" are not "stranded Pakistanis" BTW. The Khandani families of Rajshahi, Tangail, Dhaka and Chittagong cultivated Urdu since before Emperor Akbar sent their anscestors to the outposts of Dhaka, Chittagong and elsewhere as Subedars and Hawaldars under the Nawab, who replaced the rebellious 12 Bhuiyans led by another "Urduwala", Isa Khan. Nawab Sir Salimullah of Dhaka then initiated the Muslim renaissance in general, and Bangali Muslim renassance in particualr with Habibullah Bahar Chaudhury and Begum Shams-un-Nahar of greater Noakhali during the turn of the last century. They became the Bangali Muslim elite who cultivated Bangla, Dhakaiya, and Chittagonian cultures, spearheaded all Bangali Muslim cultural movements. Dr. Muhammad Shahidullah came from one of those families.
Thank you. I am a Dhakaiya and Urdu Speaking. Our urdu is not same as Paki urdu, its a mix of hindi, urdu and a little bit of bangla words. We are the locals of Dhaka. Although a lot of the new generation including myself don't speak Dhakaiya Urdu, but my parents and the last generation all speak the language. Sadly, our Dhakaiya Urdu is in the verge of extinct. It is also the language that was and is spoken by the Dhaka's Nawab - I know a lot of them from Dubai and Toronto itself; they also fall in the category of being Dhakaiya. BTW Rafique is also a Dhakaiya like me, I found it through cricinfo that he is Urdu speaking Dhakaiya. I don't know much about him personally because I grew up in Dubai. Also, Faisal one of the top model of Bangladesh is a Dhakaiya and a Nawab.

What pisses me sometime is when I tell people about my background and the Dhakaiya Urdu and they label me or us as Pakistani without knowing the history of Dhaka. I am as much Bangladeshi as any of you are and thats what I tend to force into their thick head.

Also, your claim of the Urdu speaking were sent by Akbar is not completely true. Some came there for business purposes and some existed there for long time. My maternal ancestors for example were Mirza, they ruled some parts of Dhaka as zamindar and they came from Iran. My mom's grand uncle was a famous doctor in that era and was titled Hakimul Mulk by the British. My paternal ancestors actually existed in Dhaka.

BTW its sad to hear what happened to your family during the war.
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Old June 6, 2007, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel NR
We also lost innocent Urdu-speaking friends who were murdered by the Mujib (not Mukti) bahini after liberation, before they became Rakkhi Bahini and murdered close to 30,000 left- wing Muktijoddhas and activists. We lost many family members and friends during those years also.
This is also very true. A lot of biharis lived in the old Dhaka and my parents told me how they were murdered by the Rakkhi Bahini / Mujib Bahini. But not all of them were murdered, I know some close biharis family friends of my grand parents were rescued by our family. And they are still there in old Dhaka and living well. Although a lot of them who don't know them personally tend to think of them as Dhakaiya as they have sorta adapted our language.

Anyways, here is my comment on that website: It is opened for a good reason. We should all help out atleast for the sake of humanity.
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Old June 6, 2007, 09:36 AM
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This is one problem I was not aware of for several years and only came to know about it a few years ago. Gives the indication that how media/gov can decide what they want people to know.

I have one question, however, that I think is the key. What do they think of themselves? I'm talking about the new generation. Do they think they are bangladeshi or pakistani? To me, answer to that question should decide what happens to them.
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  #16  
Old June 6, 2007, 10:14 AM
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The new generations wants to get out of the slums that they are living. They want good education, jobs just like any other Bangladeshi. The neglect of the Govt has divided them. Just like "nodir o par khohey..." some think may be it would be better for them if they move to Pakistan. May be, just may be, they would be considered as human beings.

Another part of camp that has not mentioned here are, many of the them came from bihar (hense bihari) during the 47 partition. One should look up the global map and see where bihar is located at. It no way near Pakistan. They are not pakistanis for crying out loud. They are bangladeshis, they are muslims.
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Old June 6, 2007, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ehsan
Thank you. I am a Dhakaiya and Urdu Speaking. Our urdu is not same as Paki urdu, its a mix of hindi, urdu and a little bit of bangla words. We are the locals of Dhaka. Although a lot of the new generation including myself don't speak Dhakaiya Urdu, but my parents and the last generation all speak the language. Sadly, our Dhakaiya Urdu is in the verge of extinct. It is also the language that was and is spoken by the Dhaka's Nawab - I know a lot of them from Dubai and Toronto itself; they also fall in the category of being Dhakaiya. BTW Rafique is also a Dhakaiya like me, I found it through cricinfo that he is Urdu speaking Dhakaiya. I don't know much about him personally because I grew up in Dubai. Also, Faisal one of the top model of Bangladesh is a Dhakaiya and a Nawab.

What pisses me sometime is when I tell people about my background and the Dhakaiya Urdu and they label me or us as Pakistani without knowing the history of Dhaka. I am as much Bangladeshi as any of you are and thats what I tend to force into their thick head.

Also, your claim of the Urdu speaking were sent by Akbar is not completely true. Some came there for business purposes and some existed there for long time. My maternal ancestors for example were Mirza, they ruled some parts of Dhaka as zamindar and they came from Iran. My mom's grand uncle was a famous doctor in that era and was titled Hakimul Mulk by the British. My paternal ancestors actually existed in Dhaka.

BTW its sad to hear what happened to your family during the war.
i feel you bro. elements of my immediate family have a similar background. we are shia muslims BTW. our family, my parents generation of the family, being left wing bhashani activists decided to reject urdu completely from 1952. now nobody except my mother can speak that urdu. the rewaz of farsi and classical arabic faded away with three of my grandparents. my surviving grandmother got her masters in bangla from kolkata during the 50s and got all of us into tagore, nazrul, bankeem, sharatchandra and lalon alongside english, american and some french classics.

about the akbar issue, i wrote since before akabar to show how urdu, as the lingua franca of south asian muslims entered "bangala" (the name i believe ibrahim lodi coined for our region) centuries ago, obviously before the concept of pakistan was dreamed up by the great iqbal. the current pak-version, the traditional delhi version, the hindustani-based lakhnau version, the farsi-heavy classical version, as well as the traditional hydrabadi and dhakaiya urdu are different dialects of the language.
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Old June 6, 2007, 06:12 PM
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[..edited..]

mod.content

Last edited by Carte Blanche; June 7, 2007 at 10:38 AM.. Reason: Please don't be disrespectful. Namecalling is unnecessary and against the spirit of this discussion.
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Old June 6, 2007, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zahid
I think these Biharis and all the leftovers should be ....
That is a disgusting attitude to have IMO !!!! They have been living in Bangladesh for a while now and they are as much Bangladeshi as you or me. Talking in Urdu should not make them unwanted. We should learn to respect other people who have not done anything to deserve otherwise and not brand the group as something of an outcast as a wholesale. There are bad elements in those urdu speaking people specially in the lower class strata where you see them involved in drug peddling and arms smuggling but that does not make the whole urdu speaking people bad and moreover there are bangla speaking bengalis who do worse than that. Them talking in urdu is their right, just like some people talk in english in Bangladesh. In fact urdu sounds very regal and it sounds very cute (to me at least) when their little ones speak in urdu.
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Old June 6, 2007, 07:06 PM
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From a humanitarian POV, it's indeed very sad. I'm not too well-informed about the situation of stranded Biharis/Pakistanis, but I'm aware that it can't be very pleasant, especially for those born inside Bangladesh long after the independence. I think they should be integrated into our society as any other Bangladeshi. As for others, more should be done to have them returned to their homeland.
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Old June 6, 2007, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zahid
I think these Biharis and all the leftovers should be...
Dude, chill. And do not be mistaken, there are Urdu speaking Dhakaiyas as well who would speak Dhakaiya Urdu openly anywhere and everywhere (just as my background). Pakistanis don't own Urdu. I thought Sohel bhai just explained where Urdu came from, Urdu was a language that was created for the subcontinent by the Mughals for communication purposes as hundereds of languages existed and they wanted to have a common language. Just for your safety purposes, don't go and tell a Dhakaiya in the old town to not speak in Dhakaiya Urdu.

As far as Biharis are concerned, I think a lot of them tend to speak Bangla outside their home (beacause of fear), and you could catch it through their accent. But those who mingle with Dhakaiyas have sorta adapted to Dhakaiya Urdu.
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Old June 6, 2007, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ehsan
What pisses me sometime is when I tell people about my background and the Dhakaiya Urdu and they label me or us as Pakistani without knowing the history of Dhaka. I am as much Bangladeshi as any of you are and thats what I tend to force into their thick head.
Ehsan mone hoy amar upor khepsila that day when I introduced you to my friend as half-Pakistani? I said sorry right away once you told me if I remember correctly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
Another part of camp that has not mentioned here are, many of the them came from bihar (hense bihari) during the 47 partition. One should look up the global map and see where bihar is located at. It no way near Pakistan. They are not pakistanis for crying out loud. They are bangladeshis, they are muslims.
A very important thing that I, until recently, wasn't aware of. Also, not only are they not Pakistani, their Urdu is actually quite different from Pakistani Urdu. Different grammar sometimes.

I know of a book that was written by one of those 3 survivors that I was talking about earlier. There he explained who killed his family. I'll try to find it out. But I don't know whether to post here without asking his permission. And I don't know whether I should ask him about it either. Anyway, in the book he mentions how his father, a prominant bihari in their region in Thakurgaon, was actually a pro-Bangladesh person, and was involved with politics there. During the war, he even organized events with other Bangladeshis to help the mukti bahini. But little did it do to convince some locals about his intentions. And since they spoke in Urdu, they suffered the blow that the Pakistani army should've suffered. I guess in easy Bangla it's called বাটে পরে মাইর খাওয়া!
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Old June 6, 2007, 08:06 PM
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Also, I think the thread title is a little misleading. Biharis aren't Pakistanis, and so the thread title shouldn't really be "Stranded Pakistanis site". It should probably be "Stranded Urdu-speakers in Bangladesh site". Just a suggestion though
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Old June 6, 2007, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabir
Ehsan mone hoy amar upor khepsila that day when I introduced you to my friend as half-Pakistani? I said sorry right away once you told me if I remember correctly
Aare na bhai, I knew you had a wrong idea and you were not judging. You are like a bro, no worries.
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Old June 6, 2007, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabir
Also, I think the thread title is a little misleading. Biharis aren't Pakistanis, and so the thread title shouldn't really be "Stranded Pakistanis site". It should probably be "Stranded Urdu-speakers in Bangladesh site". Just a suggestion though
Not exactly. Very few Biharis are actually from Bihar, where as most of them are Pakistanis. But most of all, they all are muslims and human beings. They deserve justice and their rights!
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