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  #1  
Old July 5, 2007, 11:32 AM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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Default Miandad on Whatmore and tangentially Bangladesh

Whle the context of the news item is more about PCB's coach hunt, Miandad did make a comment that makes it relevant to Bangladesh.

Quote:
Miandad, who played 124 tests, said if foreign coaches were indeed a sure shot recipe for success than Dav Whatmore would have achieved wonders with the Bangladesh cricket team.

"He was with them (Bangladesh) for more than four years without getting notable results. In their first series after he left, Bangladesh have performed pathetically. What does that mean that in retrospect he has left no legacy behind on which Bangladesh cricket can improve," he said.
The article: Go for strong base than foreign coach: Miandad - DNA Sports
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  #2  
Old July 5, 2007, 11:53 AM
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pfft typical Miandad comment since he himself, wanted a coaching role. These pakis have always thought low of us.
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  #3  
Old July 5, 2007, 12:31 PM
WarWolf WarWolf is offline
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Strange comment. Surely it's worth a good discussion.
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  #4  
Old July 5, 2007, 12:39 PM
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some valid points about the structure, local coach training and talent yet other comments are so full of it that makes his comment look like coming out of an ameture's mouth.

What Foreign coach has achieved in Asian teams? A WC title is not enough for him (SL). The one who may as well coach his team.
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  #5  
Old July 5, 2007, 12:46 PM
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I would not interpret his comment this way. He probably means that foreign coach is not the only solution or the only piece in the puzzle. There need to have good coaches at all levels, adequate infrastructures (fields, equipments, nutitional and health support, talent nurturing) and competitive cricket (1st class and others) structure in order to improve and sustain its pace.
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  #6  
Old July 5, 2007, 12:52 PM
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So miandad blames all the BD Test failure on the coach? Quite a shallow comment if you look at it from the perspective of "Complete system and structure to develope Test Cricket Performance".
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  #7  
Old July 5, 2007, 01:01 PM
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I don't know how BD's performance relates to the PCB's coach hunt. I don't really care about Miandad's comments on us cause he couldn't really make a difference to the Pakistani team either and after he left the Pakistani team was actually better not cause of him but cause of Woolmer(R.I.P)!!
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  #8  
Old July 5, 2007, 01:19 PM
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abdulrahee abdulrahee is offline
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i think he was misqoted what he actully he say was
"dont waste your money on watmore wast it on me"

he is a person with tons of talent and empty brain
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  #9  
Old July 5, 2007, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abdulrahee
i think he was misqoted what he actully he say was
"dont waste your money on watmore wast it on me"

he is a person with tons of talent and empty brain
Ok thats kind of an echo of Afridi
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  #10  
Old July 5, 2007, 05:41 PM
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Barey Miah is always known for his Barey talks,, He shouldnt talk too much about bangladesh batting as he himself was also a specialist Banglaesh batting coach before WC03. He speaks more from emotion than logic, always. Nevertheless, what Bangladesh achieved in the last 4 years is history.. Ask an Indian or an Australian if they will rest their best players against a series with Bangladesh and that would be the answer.
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  #11  
Old July 5, 2007, 06:54 PM
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Javed who??
who cares about this ex players and thier more than occasional silly comments.
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  #12  
Old July 5, 2007, 07:08 PM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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Ignore who said it and why he may have said it. Is there some truth to the assertion that Whatmore left nothing of tangible with which we can build for the future? Or that really is not the coach's job - he/she can only work the the tools he is given (players, infrastructure, selection et al).

I was hoping the discussion will focus more on this aspect of his comment but instead, in our own epidermally challenged ways, we get side-tracked.
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  #13  
Old July 5, 2007, 07:34 PM
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I believe, a coach can only complete half of the task, rest has to be completed by the players... Whatmore did leave a legacy behind...Bd going thru to Super 8s is a huge achievement! He has created this team from scratch, he has shown the world, that you don't need big players like Shane Warne, Brian Lara or Rahul Dravid to win in highly competitive tournaments. He has given this team confidence, and greed of winning.

Yes BD's 1st test series after he left has been a disaster, but then again maybe it's because of the gap that's left behind by him, the relationship between players and the coach, coaching technique and skills, mental mindset of the team. All of these could be interpreted.

plus Miandad's comments are worth 1/2 a penny.
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  #14  
Old July 5, 2007, 07:45 PM
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Miandad ? lolz
he should oil his own machine
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  #15  
Old July 5, 2007, 07:50 PM
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Miandad is soooooooooo desperate for Pak Job
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  #16  
Old July 5, 2007, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunaid
Whle the context of the news item is more about PCB's coach hunt, Miandad did make a comment that makes it relevant to Bangladesh.



The article: Go for strong base than foreign coach: Miandad - DNA Sports
the comment is BULL... as whatmore worked mainly with the odi of bd... (which we sucked as badly as the tests now... or was even worse)... remember those days with continuous losses... one after the next.. forever..???... well it was dav that stopped that... and rite now... we hav a lot of respect in the odis... bd has really risen!! and it was all thanx to whatmore!!!.. the guy couldnt hav done anythin better than what he already did with such a young and challanged side... he deserves a good name at the very least!! Miandad!!!

Last edited by oracle; July 5, 2007 at 09:00 PM.. Reason: language-don't use foul language
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  #17  
Old July 5, 2007, 09:14 PM
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Miandad may have been a good player but his comments always suck and he is a poor coach.
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  #18  
Old July 5, 2007, 09:19 PM
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Whatmore sucks as a coach. Miandad sucks more.
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  #19  
Old July 6, 2007, 12:14 AM
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Can we stay away from the knee jerk stuff and have a semi intelligent discussion. What he said warrents some thaught.
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  #20  
Old July 6, 2007, 02:10 AM
Tintin Tintin is offline
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I'll be the devil's advocate.

Quote:
Or that really is not the coach's job - he/she can only work the the tools he is given (players, infrastructure, selection et al).
In other countries, that is not really coach's job. Outside handling the national team his role is, at the most, as an advisory to the board. But over here, the administrators are inexperienced in what they do (and, if the posters are to believed, incompetent and corrupt to boot). There is little time to experiment with the first class structure, selections, handling of the junior/A teams, or the lower/junior cricket to get things right. A coach with experience, knowledge and the drive could have made important contributions in this area. Whatmore appears to have done nothing.

If I may make a flowery statement, unlike elsewhere, the coach should not just be the coach of the Bangladesh cricket team, but the coach for Bangladesh cricket. But that would be hoping too much. I am unwilling to criticise Whatmore too much on this count because I can't see other coaches doing much better. Eddie Barlow, had he stayed, was one who had the drive, ability and no-nonsense attitude (plus a nice tongue go with it) to get such things done, but hardly any others.

Miandad's intentions aren't good but there is some truth in what he says. Coincidentally or otherwise, the team fell flat just as he left. A good teacher is someone who quickly makes his presence unnecessary and if the pupils still need him to be around after four years, that doesn't speak too highly of him. The attitude of the batsmen are no different from what it was when he took over. There is some improvement, but how much of it is natural evolution and how much is Whatmore's contribution ?
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  #21  
Old July 6, 2007, 02:23 AM
WarWolf WarWolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tintin
There is some improvement, but how much of it is natural evolution and how much is Whatmore's contribution ?
Exactly my words. I am grateful to him for the progress of the team in ODI arena. But I still think he didn't give his 100% here as a coach.

There must be some psychological problems in the batsmen's mind. Still there are some technical problems which should have been fixed by working out with them. Feet movement problem is a common thing for bangladeshi batsmen. I see no improvement in this area for last few years. Definitely the previous coach could have done more.
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  #22  
Old July 6, 2007, 02:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunaid
Ignore who said it and why he may have said it. Is there some truth to the assertion that Whatmore left nothing of tangible with which we can build for the future? Or that really is not the coach's job - he/she can only work the the tools he is given (players, infrastructure, selection et al).
Here is what I think about the sequence that actually matters:

School cricket
-
Nationwide spreaded U-15/17/19 Training academies
-
Age group international tours
-
Inter-College/University Cricket (Where have those vanished anyway??)
-
Standard and tough Club-cricket
-
Good-Standard Domestic League
-
Professional formation of A-Team.. and their international exposure
-
Well-thought and consistant selection policy for the National team
-
Appoinment of a Proffessional International coach for considerable period
-
Appoinment of Talented Ex-national players to different levels of the whole coaching-structure
-
Regular performance analysis of the National team and helping the Struggling national players with high-standard trainings... not just trash them when they dont perform.

.......And this cycle has to continue endlessly. In this respect, if we start setting up a process right now.. we will start getting results in not less than 5 years.

And National team High-profile Coach? Well... he holds just about 15-20% value in the whole system.
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  #23  
Old July 6, 2007, 05:44 AM
israr israr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahmed_B
Here is what I think about the sequence that actually matters:

School cricket
-
Nationwide spreaded U-15/17/19 Training academies
-
Age group international tours
-
Inter-College/University Cricket (Where have those vanished anyway??)
-
Standard and tough Club-cricket
-
Good-Standard Domestic League
-
Professional formation of A-Team.. and their international exposure
-
Well-thought and consistant selection policy for the National team
-
Appoinment of a Proffessional International coach for considerable period
-
Appoinment of Talented Ex-national players to different levels of the whole coaching-structure
-
Regular performance analysis of the National team and helping the Struggling national players with high-standard trainings... not just trash them when they dont perform.

.......And this cycle has to continue endlessly. In this respect, if we start setting up a process right now.. we will start getting results in not less than 5 years.

And National team High-profile Coach? Well... he holds just about 15-20% value in the whole system.
Just want to know, out of all those above factors you mentioned, which ones of those are not being practised in Bangladesh?
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  #24  
Old July 6, 2007, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by israr
Just want to know, out of all those above factors you mentioned, which ones of those are not being practised in Bangladesh?
Will be quite easier to reply if you ask the reverse question.... i.e. which ones ARE practiced.

1) High profile national coach
2) Namesake Domestic league
3) Knee-Jerk Selectors
4) BKSP(read Dhaka)-centered Academy and High-performance projects
5) Occassional sponsor supported talent-hunt programs
6) Dreamy-eye fans with broken hearts

... well... thats about all we have!
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  #25  
Old July 6, 2007, 08:48 AM
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akabir77 akabir77 is offline
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Well He coached Pakistan team twice and look what happen to Pak? they were out from S8!!! no left behind legacy there too
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