facebook Twitter RSS Feed YouTube StumbleUpon

Home | Forum | Chat | Tours | Articles | Pictures | News | Tools | History | Tourism | Search

 
 


Go Back   BanglaCricket Forum > Cricket > Cricket

Cricket Join fellow Tigers fans to discuss all things Cricket

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old July 11, 2007, 10:49 AM
al Furqaan's Avatar
al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
Cricket Sage
 
Join Date: February 18, 2004
Location: New York City
Favorite Player: Mominul, Nasir, Taskin
Posts: 21,120
Default a basic question...

where does murali's doosra pitch most of the time? the off break, given muralis ability to rip it, prolly usually pitches well outside off stump. if the doosra pitches at the same line, and turns as much, it wouldn't make much sense. so does murali pitch his doosra more around off, or around middle and off? that would make the most sense.

given that, why is it that our batsmen with the exception of ashraful and perhaps mushy and SN completely fail to read the doosra? with a bowler of murali's calibre, wouldn't it be safe to assume that generally if murali bowls on a leg side line, there is a reason for it i.e. the ball will turn the other way.

as a person who has never really played much real cricket, this seems quite basic to me, and maybe i'm missing something which is cricketing common sense, but please help me to understand. thanks.
__________________
Bangladesh is a stronger team with Shakib al Hasan.
Bangladesh is a stronger team without Shakib al Hasan.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old July 11, 2007, 10:53 AM
Baundule's Avatar
Baundule Baundule is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: November 5, 2004
Favorite Player: Lara
Posts: 5,902

Muralis wrist actions are also different for normal deliveries and doosra.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old July 11, 2007, 10:55 AM
Tigers_eye's Avatar
Tigers_eye Tigers_eye is offline
Cricket Savant
 
Join Date: June 30, 2005
Location: Little Rock
Favorite Player: Viv Richards, Steve Waugh
Posts: 25,363

Since it's all about money and BCB has enough of it, in coming domestic season get him and pay a whole lot more than the county and bring him to our league. As a player, as a coach, as an advisor anything and everything. From there on the future muralis of the world would be dud-bhat to our batsmen.

While we are at it, get Tait or Bond or Brett Lee with him. 3 months of their time will allow us to bash SA again, this time at home.
__________________
The Weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is an attribute of the Strong." - Ghandi.

Last edited by Tigers_eye; July 11, 2007 at 11:04 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old July 11, 2007, 10:56 AM
Miraz's Avatar
Miraz Miraz is offline
BC Staff
BC Editorial Team
 
Join Date: February 27, 2006
Location: London, United Kingdom
Favorite Player: Mohammad Rafique
Posts: 14,901

al Furqqan, unfortunately It's not that straightforward. Murali pitches the ball in the same spot and one turn towards the batsman while the doosra either maintains the line or turns the opposite way.

It's next to impossible to pick doosra from the line of delivery. You have to look at the bowling grip and style of release and that's how some batsmen are playing Murali with relative ease.

I have to say even without doosra Murali bowls in an impeccable and intimidating line with big turns. That's enough for a good number of batsman.
__________________
You only play good cricket when you win/draw matches.
I am with Bangladesh, whether they win or lose . http://twitter.com/BanglaCricket
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old July 11, 2007, 10:58 AM
SS SS is offline
Cricket Guru
 
Join Date: February 24, 2004
Posts: 9,444

hmm good question...I hope we can view some of the clips and may be few bowling experts from the forum can give a better answer to it.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old July 11, 2007, 11:24 AM
Surfer's Avatar
Surfer Surfer is offline
Test Cricketer
 
Join Date: May 20, 2007
Posts: 1,341

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miraz
al Furqqan, unfortunately It's not that straightforward. Murali pitches the ball in the same spot and one turn towards the batsman while the doosra either maintains the line or turns the opposite way.

It's next to impossible to pick doosra from the line of delivery. You have to look at the bowling grip and style of release and that's how some batsmen are playing Murali with relative ease.

I have to say even without doosra Murali bowls in an impeccable and intimidating line with big turns. That's enough for a good number of batsman.
Well said Miraz. As an RH batsman, when a off spinner bowls to me and pitches around the stumps, I have to be careful about the following possibilities:
1. He bowled a normal off spinner with low spin on it. In that case it might head for the pads. Thats a tempting delivery and the fielders at leg slip and short leg are already waiting.
2. He bowled a flipper- the one that goes straight. Very difficult delivery to deal with
3. The doosra is coming in
4. He misfired the ball and its a normal big turner.

You can rule out the 4th possibility in case of Murali but even then there are three deadly deadly possibilities when the ball is pitching close to the stumps. Like Baundale pointed out, Murali's wrist action for the doosra is different from the normal off spinner.....though its not very easy to pick. But he has two flippers- in one the wrist action resembles the doosra and in another the wrist action resembles the normal off spinner. Thats where he is so difficult.

The batsmen who are wont to reading the spin in the air play Murali better than those who judge by wrist action.
__________________
Catch the cricket fever on my blog: Cricket Magic
Mahesh Bhatt to make a movie on Bob Woolmer
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old July 11, 2007, 11:38 AM
Sohel's Avatar
Sohel Sohel is offline
Cricket Savant
 
Join Date: April 18, 2007
Location: Dhaka
Favorite Player: Nazimuddin
Posts: 35,455
Smile Murali's Doosra

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baundule
Muralis wrist actions are also different for normal deliveries and doosra.
The key point. Thank you Baundule ...

"Muttiah Muralitharan is the greatest ever exponent of this type of delivery" - Wikipedia on Murali's doosra.

Murali is double-jointed, a genetic anomaly which allows extra jerk and rip during release. Simply put, he can bend his wrist all the way, both ways, with incredible results. Add this particular enhancement, as well as his bent elbow, and intelligent trap setting to the traditional techniques, you find yourself at the wrong end of an incessant variation of deliveries only he is in control of. Now think of this and add it to the following excerpts from Wikipedia, what you have is nothing short of inevitable death for most batsmen -

"Technique

The bowler delivers the ball with the same finger action as a normal off break, but cocks the wrist so the back of the hand faces towards the batsman. This gives the ball spin in the opposite direction to an off break, causing it to spin from the leg side to the off side to a right-handed batsman.

The doosra is the off-spinner's equivalent of the leg-spinner's googly, which spins in the opposite direction to the leg spinner's stock ball. In principle it is possible for a left-arm orthodox spinner (whose action mirrors that of an off-spinner) to bowl the doosra, which in this case would turn from off to leg. This has not yet been seen in international cricket, although the England left-armer Monty Panesar claims to have bowled it in domestic matches."

"Muttiah Muralitharan

Muralitharan's doosra was the subject of an official report by match referee Chris Broad during Australia's tour of Sri Lanka in 2004, for illegal straightening of the arm at the elbow during the bowling action. Subsequent biomechanical tests conducted at the University of Western Australia in Perth showed that Muralitharan was straightening his arm by angles of up to 10 degrees when bowling doosras, well outside the International Cricket Council acceptable guideline of 5 degrees for spin bowlers. Muralitharan was subsequently instructed by Sri Lanka Cricket not to bowl the doosra in international cricket. In November 2004, the International Cricket Council conducted more research into illegal bowling actions and found that many bowlers whose actions were considered legitimate were actually transgressing the rules. A rule change was proposed and accepted at a meeting of ICC chief executives in early 2005, stating that any bowler may straighten their arm up to 15 degrees, and Murali's doosra once again became a legal delivery.

In February 2006, in an attempt to silence the Australian crowds and their 'no ball' chants, Muralitharan took another test at the University of Western Australia, which saw all of his deliveries deemed legal, including the doosra."

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doosra
__________________
"And do not curse those who call on other than GOD, lest they blaspheme and curse GOD, out of ignorance. We have adorned the works of every group in their eyes. Ultimately, they return to their Lord, then He informs them of everything they had done." (Qur'an 6:108)

Last edited by Sohel; July 11, 2007 at 01:06 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old July 11, 2007, 11:48 AM
Dhruvo Dhruvo is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: July 9, 2007
Posts: 4,516

His action makes him a good spinner but without it he will just be a normal off spinner.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old July 11, 2007, 11:58 AM
Beamer's Avatar
Beamer Beamer is offline
Cricket Guru
 
Join Date: December 15, 2003
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Favorite Player: Viv Richards, Sid Crosby.
Posts: 9,707

Well..people who play him better than others usualy show more 'chutzpah' in their approach to him. If you are taking the approach of only defense, it will do you no good, and he will settle in real nice and easy. He will pry you out sooner than later. No question about that. Judging the lengths of his delivery is very important as he rarely strays, but the gifted ones can detect it and take appropriate measures. Feet movement then becomes very important. If you have positive intent ( not crazy intents ) you can unsettle him just as any bowlers. Ash and Rahim demonstrated clearly in the last test. Both used their feet well to suffocate his spin when pitched slighly up, or when he flighted, both danced to the pitch of the ball and put him away to the boundary. Also, one must play near the body to minimize a dismissal chance. The most imporant aspect to score against him is to remain pro-active within the bounds of technical correctness..
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old July 11, 2007, 12:04 PM
Sohel's Avatar
Sohel Sohel is offline
Cricket Savant
 
Join Date: April 18, 2007
Location: Dhaka
Favorite Player: Nazimuddin
Posts: 35,455

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beamer
Well..people who play him better than others usualy show more 'chutzpah' in their approach to him. If you are taking the approach of only defense, it will do you no good, and he will settle in real nice and easy. He will pry you out sooner than later. No question about that. Judging the lengths of his delivery is very important as he rarely strays, but the gifted ones can detect it and take appropriate measures. Feet movement then becomes very important. If you have positive intent ( not crazy intents ) you can unsettle him just as any bowlers. Ash and Rahim demonstrated clearly in the last test. Both used their feet well to suffocate his spin when pitched slighly up, or when he flighted, both danced to the pitch of the ball and put him away to the boundary. Also, one must play near the body to minimize a dismissal chance. The most imporant aspect to score against him is to remain pro-active within the bounds of technical correctness..
Very true, he needs to be "out-thought" and "out-judged" with the front foot forward, before those day 3 roughs come into play to make matters infinitely worse.
__________________
"And do not curse those who call on other than GOD, lest they blaspheme and curse GOD, out of ignorance. We have adorned the works of every group in their eyes. Ultimately, they return to their Lord, then He informs them of everything they had done." (Qur'an 6:108)

Last edited by Sohel; July 11, 2007 at 12:25 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old July 11, 2007, 12:22 PM
Beamer's Avatar
Beamer Beamer is offline
Cricket Guru
 
Join Date: December 15, 2003
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Favorite Player: Viv Richards, Sid Crosby.
Posts: 9,707

Also, if you choose to play off your back foot all the time, you are as good as dead.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old July 11, 2007, 01:04 PM
al Furqaan's Avatar
al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
Cricket Sage
 
Join Date: February 18, 2004
Location: New York City
Favorite Player: Mominul, Nasir, Taskin
Posts: 21,120

rajin got smoked cuz he just defended...
__________________
Bangladesh is a stronger team with Shakib al Hasan.
Bangladesh is a stronger team without Shakib al Hasan.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old July 11, 2007, 01:05 PM
Sohel's Avatar
Sohel Sohel is offline
Cricket Savant
 
Join Date: April 18, 2007
Location: Dhaka
Favorite Player: Nazimuddin
Posts: 35,455

Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
rajin got smoked cuz he just defended...
Impossible to say it any better than that.
__________________
"And do not curse those who call on other than GOD, lest they blaspheme and curse GOD, out of ignorance. We have adorned the works of every group in their eyes. Ultimately, they return to their Lord, then He informs them of everything they had done." (Qur'an 6:108)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old July 11, 2007, 01:06 PM
rah's Avatar
rah rah is offline
ODI Cricketer
 
Join Date: April 22, 2006
Location: north weasie;london
Posts: 802

his action is good for off spin bowling but doesnt make him a normal spinna or and easy bowla to copy and gimmik
__________________
if your a man then admit it
bangladesh will win the 2011 worldcup
brap brap
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old July 11, 2007, 02:35 PM
scorpion32 scorpion32 is offline
Club Cricketer
 
Join Date: January 4, 2005
Location: California, USA
Posts: 89

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beamer
Well..people who play him better than others usualy show more 'chutzpah' in their approach to him.
What's 'chutzpah'? Am I forgetting Bangla?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old July 11, 2007, 02:44 PM
layperson's Avatar
layperson layperson is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Favorite Player: Tamim & Sakib
Posts: 2,574

Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpion32
What's 'chutzpah'? Am I forgetting Bangla?
Chutzpah is an english word my friend.
__________________
Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while that you shouldnt have messed with? Thats me.
Join http://www.banglacricket.com/alochon...php?groupid=16
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old July 11, 2007, 02:53 PM
scorpion32 scorpion32 is offline
Club Cricketer
 
Join Date: January 4, 2005
Location: California, USA
Posts: 89

Quote:
Originally Posted by layperson
Chutzpah is an english word my friend.
Thanks layperson. :-)

But the meaning is "The state or quality of being impudent or arrogantly self-confident". Would that be a good technique against Murali? Hmmmm......
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old July 11, 2007, 02:59 PM
Murad's Avatar
Murad Murad is offline
Cricket Sage
 
Join Date: July 30, 2006
Favorite Player: MAM & MBM
Posts: 19,748

two back to back duck for rajin.. whats wrong with him??? We should get a better replacement for him.. he can't score runs..can't take singles.. hes so depensive.. we need a player at #3/4 who can rotate the strikces and make runs with singles not just depensive like him... too depensive is not good for test matches... it gives the upper hand to the fielding side....

we need nasirudding faroque whos almost 24 now.. and played 27 first class matches.. he could be a perfect man for the 3rd position in batting...

Last edited by Murad; July 11, 2007 at 03:05 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old July 11, 2007, 03:02 PM
Beamer's Avatar
Beamer Beamer is offline
Cricket Guru
 
Join Date: December 15, 2003
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Favorite Player: Viv Richards, Sid Crosby.
Posts: 9,707

Quote:
Originally Posted by layperson
Chutzpah is an english word my friend.
It's Yiddish word actually.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old July 11, 2007, 03:03 PM
layperson's Avatar
layperson layperson is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Favorite Player: Tamim & Sakib
Posts: 2,574

Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpion32
Thanks layperson. :-)

But the meaning is "The state or quality of being impudent or arrogantly self-confident". Would that be a good technique against Murali? Hmmmm......
More than a technique it is a state of mind or your attitude and I think a positive confident and to an extent arrogant attitude would be helpful in coping with murali. Thats my take on it, but lets hear it from Beamer bhai the original exponent of the word.
__________________
Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while that you shouldnt have messed with? Thats me.
Join http://www.banglacricket.com/alochon...php?groupid=16
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old July 11, 2007, 03:05 PM
layperson's Avatar
layperson layperson is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Favorite Player: Tamim & Sakib
Posts: 2,574

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beamer
It's Yiddish word actually.

You lost me there.
__________________
Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while that you shouldnt have messed with? Thats me.
Join http://www.banglacricket.com/alochon...php?groupid=16
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old July 11, 2007, 03:05 PM
Beamer's Avatar
Beamer Beamer is offline
Cricket Guru
 
Join Date: December 15, 2003
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Favorite Player: Viv Richards, Sid Crosby.
Posts: 9,707

Quote:
Originally Posted by layperson
More than a technique it is a state of mind or your attitude and I think a positive confident and to an extent arrogant attitude would be helpful in coping with murali. Thats my take on it, but lets hear it from Beamer bhai the original exponent of the word.
Can't say it any better, Layperson
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old July 11, 2007, 03:08 PM
sandpiper sandpiper is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: April 9, 2007
Location: USA
Favorite Player: Wasim Akram
Posts: 6,467

exactly my point of view on facing Murali.
Quote:
Originally Posted by layperson
More than a technique it is a state of mind or your attitude and I think a positive confident and to an extent arrogant attitude would be helpful in coping with murali.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old July 11, 2007, 03:50 PM
bharat bharat is offline
ODI Cricketer
 
Join Date: September 25, 2005
Posts: 914

The Indian batsmen who have had fair sucess against him in tests..(if I am not wrong Murali has his "worst" record agaisnt India) try to read him through the air and ofcourse through the release ..but this unconventional way of reading it in the air works good for bowlers like Murali who has a tremendous wrsit speed.Reading it at the time of delivery will work with most of the bowlers but not Murali.

Try to read it through the pitch ..well you are dead meat ...
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old July 12, 2007, 08:17 AM
SMHasan's Avatar
SMHasan SMHasan is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: June 20, 2005
Location: Dhaka
Posts: 3,061

Attitude, as already said by the others is one of the main key to play Murali. Brian Lara showed how to deal with him when WI toured SL back in 2002. I think Lara is the best batsmen who played Murali well. Lara showed how your footwork should be against him. Quick.
__________________

ওইখানে আমিও আছি /যেইখানে সূর্য উদয়/প্রিয়দেশ পাল্টে দেবো/তুমি আর আমি বোধহয়/কমরেড, তৈরি থেকো/গায়ে মাখো আলতা বরণ/আমি তুমি আমি তুমি/এভাবেই লক্ষ চরণ
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
BanglaCricket.com
 

About Us | Contact Us | Privacy Policy | Partner Sites | Useful Links | Banners |

© BanglaCricket