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  #26  
Old November 2, 2007, 10:36 PM
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No clue as to what's being said in the videos posted in the previous post. Could anyone translate, pretty please?
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  #27  
Old November 2, 2007, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AsifTheManRahman
No clue as to what's being said in the videos posted in the previous post. Could anyone translate, pretty please?
I second that. My hindi/urdu's terrible. Never got into Bollywood movies. From what little i could understand from the first video, i think one of them was saying that Bangladesh and Pakistan shouldnt have separated because they both struggled together with Islam (or something to that effect)...
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  #28  
Old November 3, 2007, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by AsifTheManRahman
No clue as to what's being said in the videos posted in the previous post. Could anyone translate, pretty please?
It's difficult to understand coz I think the 3 videos have 3 very different languages. Here's what I could gather.

They all have different opinions about the separation, reasons behind the separation, whose fault it was, etc. Some things that most of us will agree on are that, it was a politically motivated move, specially because the pak govt was imposing its ruling over Bangladeshi people; BD people were always left on the corner without much facilities and weren't treated well; pak wanted to get the most out of BD and its resources (some noted that BD had most factories and industries);

Some things that a few people said which a few people will disagree with are that it was India's way of making sure that Pakistan doesn't get all the facilities from BD (may be), and some argued that it was done by India and that it was all their fault, coz they didn't want pak to be so big and strong, etc. (don't know about the last part, couldn't follow)

An interesting point was made by two people (I think) who said that Bangladeshis are the ones who have fought the most to come out of British rule, and that it wasn't fair for BD people to be separated from Pak.

I think almost all agreed that they should've remained together.
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  #29  
Old November 3, 2007, 04:43 PM
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I see, thanks.

Some of the arguments sound flawed. For example, even if we did fight the hardest to come out of British rule (whatever they meant by that), I see no reason why having a country of our own would be "unfair". I'm more than happy to be a citizen of Bangladesh as opposed to that of a small Pakistani state.

I also don't see why India would feel threatened by a bunch of lazy rice eating peace loving people (i keeeed).
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  #30  
Old November 3, 2007, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AsifTheManRahman
No clue as to what's being said in the videos posted in the previous post. Could anyone translate, pretty please?
Multan video:

The 1st guy talks about difference in culture and language being one of the primary reasons as both regions are different places and distant from each other. Secondly, economical deprivation as very little profit were given to the Bangalis from their exports, such as jute and instead brought to Pakistan. The woman talks about how it was wrong what happened, that we should have stayed together as a country, because we struggled together for our country, for an Islamic identity, after many sacrifices. She said the Bangalis struggled the most compared to West Pakistan, they had more leaders, more sacrifices, and after all that to become separated is a big loss(?) for us. So what's left?

The 2nd guy (red shirt) starts off with a statement that I can't quite understand. I think he's saying for Muslims, and for us, it's a great loss and stain/curse or something like that. When the people of Punjab started mistreated Bangalis, they thought that their rights would be taken away, and that's the way they felt they would remain. This caused misunderstandings, as a result Yahya then labelled them 'rebellion', and something else I can't understand, probably traitors. Anyway, they were given that title and tried to crush them. Then there was interference from outside and then Pakistan was seperated.

The 3rd guy said pretty much everything 1st guy said, that deprivation of the Bangalis kept increasing day by day. The Bangali leaders weren't given much power, that their positions were only titles and they had to follow orders from West Pakistan. Some Indians also 'propagated' that made the Bangali leaders realise all the produces from East-Pak was going to West-Pak and they weren't given anything.


Lahore video:

1st guy says Pakistan was seperated after the war when 90,000 Pakistani soldiers surrendered to the Indian General Aurora. The reason was that our Muslim brothers (Bangalis) were treated badly from the start. The 1st women (in red) said although authority and power seemed to be in majority of people in Bangladesh, it was Julfikar Ali Bhutto in Pakistan who dominated them. I think that was the reason why they had to become seperated. Secondly there was another controversy that was the conflict of language, because Urdu was being imposed as the official language in Bangladesh, even though majority of people there were Bangalis, and it was threatening to destroy their language.

I didn't understand the 2nd guy. He was probably says there was misunderstandings and fights between us and them, so we had to become separated. 3rd guy says it was main India's fault, that they conspired against Pakistan. 3rd woman (also in red) says 'obviously India', there were the ones who wanted to occupy Pakistan, that's why they *mumbles* did something and hence the seperation. 4th woman (in burkha) says something about 'distance from Islam' and fighting each other which resulted in the separation. 5th women says they (Bangalis) weren't given their fair share of the profit from the economy, they weren't given many facilities. Also most of the profits from their crops were also taken by us and given to the Punjab and other provinces.


3rd video is no longer available.
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  #31  
Old November 3, 2007, 06:10 PM
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Thanks HB. Interesting comments. I wonder how much they know about the atrocities though.
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  #32  
Old November 3, 2007, 10:21 PM
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I was wondering how awareness around these atrocities can be spread more? Today's caffeine induced teen society is already looking forward to tommorrow even before noon. DU university's justification beyond its basic purpose of providing education, has been severly eroded over the past 30 years. It has produced nothing but corrupt leaders, who in turn have to deal with student agitation from the same institution they were a part of 20 years before. Moreover, the flourishing "English Medium" alternative is steadily displacing (not replacing) as a strong stream towards scholastic evolution.

So which institution remains in Bangladesh to forward the message of our independance? The honest truth is that lightning never hits the same place twice. It is hardly possible for the Pakis to re- conquer BD and perpetrate the genocide that they did in 71. So what is the purpose of re-running these tapes?

It could be only 2 of the following,

1) To continue to forward leftist emotions within ourselves. And one outlet is definitely Paki bashing. Trace elements left of that strain has been inherited by many of us from our left leaning Awami parents. And unfortunately all our liberal arts brilliance is channeled towards this agenda of self-pity for emotional balance.

2) Understand that unless we grow stronger and united, the next invading army will repeat all this. That is where the true spirit of 71 should lie. It is a lesson that points out to the basic facets of nation building - unity and execution of practical values. Until many of you stop sobbing in tears until your lungs give way, you will be over run. Until many of you let an individual or group of individuals from our past light up your path into the future, you are doomed.

Instead of crying over the deaths of Mujib or Zia, why not try to become like them - as much as you can. That is my take away from the sentiments of November and December.
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  #33  
Old November 4, 2007, 12:47 AM
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on one hand I feel bad for these pakistanis who are brainwashed day in and out and fed garbage. I bet 70% of them don't even know the unthinkable atrocity that their army has committed in the name of "islam" .....I don't think they even know the atrocity their "islamic" army has committed on the minorities of east pakistan who were their 1st target. NO wonder Shoaib Malik felt that their loss to India was a loss to the whole muslim world and they are made to believe that they are the messiah of whole islamic brotherhood front. One of the biggest genocide committed by Pakistan after Hitler and Stalin. And it makes one's blood boil to think that so many of these war criminals led a good life, got married, had kids, did normal things after murdering/raping and massacring so many bengalis.
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  #34  
Old November 4, 2007, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganguly da
on one hand I feel bad for these pakistanis who are brainwashed day in and out and fed garbage. I bet 70% of them don't even know the unthinkable atrocity that their army has committed in the name of "islam" .....I don't think they even know the atrocity their "islamic" army has committed on the minorities of east pakistan who were their 1st target. NO wonder Shoaib Malik felt that their loss to India was a loss to the whole muslim world and they are made to believe that they are the messiah of whole islamic brotherhood front. One of the biggest genocide committed by Pakistan after Hitler and Stalin. And it makes one's blood boil to think that so many of these war criminals led a good life, got married, had kids, did normal things after murdering/raping and massacring so many bengalis.
Bro,

Just claiming to be 'Islamic' in order to justify the means to a political end does not make it so. We may for example delude ourselves into believing that the Maruti-Suzuki in our garage is really a Bentley, but that won't make it a Bentley, now would it? ...

Preconditions of war in the Holy Quran are clear. Here's a few: -

"You may fight in the cause of GOD those who fight you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors. (2:190)

"And kill them where you find them, and evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not fight them at the Sacred Mosque, unless they fight you therein. If they fight you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those who disbelieve. (2:191)

"They question you with regard to warfare in the sacred month. Say: Warfare therein is a great (transgression), but to turn (men) from the way of GOD, and to disbelieve in Him and in the Inviolable Place of Worship, and to expel His people thence, is a greater with GOD; for persecution is worse than killing. And they will not cease from fighting against you till they have made you renegades from your religion, if they can. And he who becomes renegade and dies in his disbelief: such are they whose works have fallen both in the world and the Hereafter. Such are rightful owners of the Fire: they will abide therein." (2:217)

War and subsequent killing is only allowed in self-defense, defined with specific preconditions that narrowly assess each individual act in terms of its own intent, context and unique set of circumstances. Such killing also clearly implies particular conditions of self-defense on a battlefield, be it in Dhaka against Pakistani aggression in 1971, or an armed attempt to defend our family and home against an armed robber or worse. Killing in the defense of others is also similarly sanctioned.

"...As for those who believe, but do not emigrate with you, you do not owe them any support, until they do emigrate. However, if they seek your help, as brethren in faith, you shall help them, except against people with whom you have signed a peace treaty. GOD is Seer of everything you do. (8:72)

"And why should you not fight in the cause of God and the weak and oppressed among men, women, and children who say, "Our Lord rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors. And give us from You, a protector. And give us from You, a helper." (4:75)


Believers who are attacked may seek help and military action may be used in these cases. The exception is clearly if a treaty exists with the country/people who are housing them and the conditions of such treaty has not been broken (see 9:1-15 for dealing with broken treaties).

So in light of what we see here, it is clear in general terms that our resistance to Pak aggression was Islamic, and all those who came to our aid for whatever reasons, including many Indian soldiers who were martyred, injured or risked their precious lives during our Jihaad. The 'munafiqun' or hypocrites are always exposed by their actions.

Peace, Sohel.
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Last edited by Sohel; November 4, 2007 at 07:46 AM..
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  #35  
Old November 4, 2007, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pundit
I was wondering how awareness around these atrocities can be spread more? Today's caffeine induced teen society is already looking forward to tommorrow even before noon. DU university's justification beyond its basic purpose of providing education, has been severly eroded over the past 30 years. It has produced nothing but corrupt leaders, who in turn have to deal with student agitation from the same institution they were a part of 20 years before. Moreover, the flourishing "English Medium" alternative is steadily displacing (not replacing) as a strong stream towards scholastic evolution.

So which institution remains in Bangladesh to forward the message of our independance? The honest truth is that lightning never hits the same place twice. It is hardly possible for the Pakis to re- conquer BD and perpetrate the genocide that they did in 71. So what is the purpose of re-running these tapes?

It could be only 2 of the following,

1) To continue to forward leftist emotions within ourselves. And one outlet is definitely Paki bashing. Trace elements left of that strain has been inherited by many of us from our left leaning Awami parents. And unfortunately all our liberal arts brilliance is channeled towards this agenda of self-pity for emotional balance.

2) Understand that unless we grow stronger and united, the next invading army will repeat all this. That is where the true spirit of 71 should lie. It is a lesson that points out to the basic facets of nation building - unity and execution of practical values. Until many of you stop sobbing in tears until your lungs give way, you will be over run. Until many of you let an individual or group of individuals from our past light up your path into the future, you are doomed.

Instead of crying over the deaths of Mujib or Zia, why not try to become like them - as much as you can. That is my take away from the sentiments of November and December.
Excellent post, and deeply moving too ...

Thank you Pundit.
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  #36  
Old November 4, 2007, 08:04 AM
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so sad this video, i cant understand how anyone can do such things especially the soldiers who raped that girl.....

on another note, on my recent visit to Kolkata, the memories of the liberation war is still remembered by the Refugees and their families who fled for safety, many lost everything and did not wish to return. there was a interesting news story released on zee bangla which interviewed people who were asked if they would return with the news that Jaamat leaders would be put on trial, it was interesting to see that many wanted to return to their "small cosy farms" as one described it. another said that he missed the bustle of Dhaka and that Kolkata was too crowded for him. (how rude! lol). thankfully the army have done the right thing in bringing them to justice
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  #37  
Old November 4, 2007, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rupantor
Bangladesh Liberation War of 1971: Views of the New Generation in Pakistan

BBC URDU: Multan Students Remember 1971


BBC Urdu: Lahore Students Remember 1971


BBC Urdu: Hyderabad Students Remember 1971
My late grandfather Dr. AM Chaudhury was the Chairman of the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission back in 1971 and was living in Rawalpindi at the time. He and many others told those of us too young to comprehend the events, that MOST then 'West' Pakistanis were deeply upset by the AL or 'Bangalee' victory at the polls, and implicitly SUPPORTED Yahya and the PPP's violent and criminal attempts to undermine the election results which inevitably led to our war of self-defense and independence.

Also, let us not forget the 'silence' of our 'West' Pakistani brothers with regards to systematic exploitation of OUR resources which financed the construction of Islamabad, the modernization of Rawalpindi and Lahore, and fattened the pockets of the Punjabi and less frequently, the Sindhi elite at the expense of our comparative underdevelopment, despite 'investments' in and around Dhaka. At the height of those 'investments' under Ayub Khan who required a "higher standard" for Bengalis than Punjabis, they spent only 40% or less on us - the majority of the population and source of jute, the main cash crop and export - of what they spent on themselves in EVERY public sector. The "industrial investments" in Bangladesh, all tightly managed by Punjabi and in some cases the Sindhi elite, were made because of reasons of financial and other logistical expediency, NOT the rightful development of the source of that wealth.

So, let's stick to the facts and not leave "the Pakistani people" out of it any more than we need to, shall we? People do good or bad things because of who they are for whatever real reasons, sadly, being 'Pakistani' is not one of them. Those who supported our just cause in the 'West' were VERY few and far between.

Peace ...
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  #38  
Old November 4, 2007, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganguly da
on one hand I feel bad for these pakistanis who are brainwashed day in and out and fed garbage. I bet 70% of them don't even know the unthinkable atrocity that their army has committed in the name of "islam" .....I don't think they even know the atrocity their "islamic" army has committed on the minorities of east pakistan who were their 1st target. NO wonder Shoaib Malik felt that their loss to India was a loss to the whole muslim world and they are made to believe that they are the messiah of whole islamic brotherhood front. One of the biggest genocide committed by Pakistan after Hitler and Stalin. And it makes one's blood boil to think that so many of these war criminals led a good life, got married, had kids, did normal things after murdering/raping and massacring so many bengalis.

Dada what do u expect from the Pakistani belief? the majority of those killed were Hindus, they were given orders to hunt the Hindus and the Rajakars put a yellow "H" to make things easier. Islamic Fascists like the Jaamat use that as an excuse, that thats why the liberation war to them isnt "all that important". and the REAL Muslims who arent extremists, well, they were killed and branded as "Hindu lovers".

the scary thing is that its like these soldiers knew that Bangladesh was destined to be created and they would try and dumb the people by killing their intellectuals and hope to create a Islamic Bangladesh by slaughtering the minorities in a few years time, which sadly in past 10 years or so has proven to be the case, with the new develepment on the 71 liberation, Bangladesh seems to be heading the right way.
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  #39  
Old November 4, 2007, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bengaliprince176
Dada what do u expect from the Pakistani belief? the majority of those killed were Hindus, they were given orders to hunt the Hindus and the Rajakars put a yellow "H" to make things easier. Islamic Fascists like the Jaamat use that as an excuse, that thats why the liberation war to them isnt "all that important". and the REAL Muslims who arent extremists, well, they were killed and branded as "Hindu lovers".
That is the lamest Pakistani and Islamo-fascist myth bro.

Not that it really matters, but since most people who were murdered during the war were 'ordinary', poor Bangladeshis who allegedly aided and abetted the Muktibahini, they were more than likely to be Muslims as was 90% of Muktibahini. Most of the victims of the later increasingly random mass murders were more often than not, simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. It is the non-combatant, poor people who suffered the most and this vast group obviously included many and perhaps a 'disproportionate' number of Hindus, Christians and Buddhists who stayed behind. It should also be noted that an overwhelming majority of 10 million refugees who escaped the violence to West Bengal, Tripura and Assam were primarily Hindus according to various UN agencies as well as RAW.
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  #40  
Old November 4, 2007, 10:30 AM
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that is true Sohel i agree but there is no doubt that the army aimed for hindus first, there was a reason why the Refugees moved away from East Pakistan, coz of the torture by the army, this happened numerous times, not just 1971, there was a large movement in 1951 becasue of a communist demonstartion for secularism and hindus bore the brunt, and in 1970 especially (correct me if the date is wrong) straight after the elections there was another wave of predominantly hindu refugees. it was the third wave, which was a mix of Muslim and Hindu. of course i am too young to recall this first hand but the reports from Kolkata and West Bengal have reported this, so maybe i am wrong.

also bruv my comment was a statement about what some Pakistanis are led to belive not what i belive. sorry if i confused you.
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  #41  
Old November 4, 2007, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bengaliprince176
that is true Sohel i agree but there is no doubt that the army aimed for hindus first, there was a reason why the Refugees moved away from East Pakistan, coz of the torture by the army, this happened numerous times, not just 1971, there was a large movement in 1951 becasue of a communist demonstartion for secularism and hindus bore the brunt, and in 1970 especially (correct me if the date is wrong) straight after the elections there was another wave of predominantly hindu refugees. it was the third wave, which was a mix of Muslim and Hindu. of course i am too young to recall this first hand but the reports from Kolkata and West Bengal have reported this, so maybe i am wrong.

also bruv my comment was a statement about what some Pakistanis are led to belive not what i belive. sorry if i confused you.
I know what you mean bro, so no worries ...

Mass exodus is always prompted by legitimate fear based on what is seen, rather than the paranoia generated by political propaganda as often claimed by perpetrators of those crimes. Jews fled from Nazi atrocities, Palestinians fled from Zionist atrocities, and many Bangladeshi Hindus fled from Pakistani and home grown Islamo-fascist atrocities in 1971 because of legitimate fear.

The communal violence back in the late 1940s was also a similar sort of thing which culminated for a while in politically motivated, mutual atrocities between Hindus, Muslims and in case of Punjab, Sikhs in every major population center in East and West Bengal and Punjab.

Economic refugees are a different matter, a matter sadly also often twisted for political ends by all interested sides, including those 'anti-Muslim' elements in the Indian 'power-structure' and media out to portray Bangladesh as another Pakistan filled with sectarian practices. It is hardly surprising as to why Bangladeshi TV channels are 'blacked-out' in West Bengal while our airwaves are saturated by Indo-Pak channels. I'm not insinuating that loyalty to state propaganda is the only impetus behind such as act, but it does play a part. The Indian media is not nearly as responsible, careful, fair and critical with regards to more or less parroting the 'official' view, as it is with its exemplary reporting of domestic Indian news.

The overwhelming majority of our people are devout Muslims, and I think BECAUSE they are so devout and therefore in touch with their moral values and the true spirit of Islam, they continue to reject Islamic politics, sectarianism and intolerance at the polls DECISIVELY.

Islamo-fascism maybe vocal, powerful and seen often enough in the media, but when it comes to the majority of Muslims especially here in Bangladesh, they fail to get even 20 out of 300 seats in our Parliament.

We are NOT Pakistan or India, will NEVER be as long as we're alive, and don't require the approval of anyone else to define and be who we are as Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Buddhist, Animist, Bengali and Tribal Bangladeshis, period. Just come and see for yourselves ...
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Last edited by Sohel; November 4, 2007 at 11:54 AM..
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  #42  
Old November 4, 2007, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel NR
I know what you mean bro, so no worries ...

Mass exodus is always prompted by legitimate fear based on what is seen, rather than the paranoia generated by political propaganda as often claimed by perpetrators of those crimes. Jews fled from Nazi atrocities, Palestinians fled from Zionist atrocities, and many Bangladeshi Hindus fled from Pakistani and home grown Islamo-fascist atrocities in 1971 because of legitimate fear.

The communal violence back in the late 1940s was also a similar sort of thing which culminated for a while in politically motivated, mutual atrocities between Hindus, Muslims and in case of Punjab, Sikhs in every major population center in East and West Bengal and Punjab.

Economic refugees are a different matter, a matter sadly also often twisted for political ends by all interested sides, including those 'anti-Muslim' elements in the Indian 'power-structure' and media out to portray Bangladesh as another Pakistan filled with sectarian practices.

The overwhelming majority of our people are devout Muslims, and I think BECAUSE they are so devout and therefore in touch with their moral values and the true spirit of Islam, they continue to reject Islamic politics, sectarianism and intolerance at the polls DECISIVELY.

Just come and see for yourselves ...
ye i knw bro, the majority of people anywhere not just BD are good people, it is silly to generalise over a small minority.
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  #43  
Old November 4, 2007, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Bengaliprince176
ye i knw bro, the majority of people anywhere not just BD are good people, it is silly to generalise over a small minority.
Alhamdullilah ! Bless you bro for keeping the faith ...
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  #44  
Old November 4, 2007, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Sohel NR
Also, let us not forget the 'silence' of our 'West' Pakistani brothers with regards to systematic exploitation of OUR resources which financed the construction of Islamabad, the modernization of Rawalpindi and Lahore, and fattened the pockets of the Punjabi and less frequently, the Sindhi elite at the expense of our comparative underdevelopment, despite 'investments' in and around Dhaka. At the height of those 'investments' under Ayub Khan who required a "higher standard" for Bengalis than Punjabis, they spent only 40% or less on us - the majority of the population and source of jute, the main cash crop and export - of what they spent on themselves in EVERY public sector. The "industrial investments" in Bangladesh, all tightly managed by Punjabi and in some cases the Sindhi elite, were made because of reasons of financial and other logistical expediency, NOT the rightful development of the source of that wealth.

So, let's stick to the facts and not leave "the Pakistani people" out of it any more than we need to, shall we? People do good or bad things because of who they are for whatever real reasons, sadly, being 'Pakistani' is not one of them. Those who supported our just cause in the 'West' were VERY few and far between.

Peace ...
I cannot agree with you 100%. I think the ruling elite in Pakistan should be blamed for this economic exploitation, not the general public. You can only blame the general public for not trying to find out what's happening in Bangladesh. It's like how many average bangldeshis know and care about what's happening in the Hill tracts district. Why were the tribal people fighting? Why was the army deployed there... was the army brutal on the local people? This was never a major issue among the general public, we did not want to know much about it and the media obliged. Everybody wanted peace in the hill tracts, but it was never a defining issue. Growing up in dhaka I hardly knew anything about the problems in the hill districts... I remember that if somebody was sent to the hill tracts for government position or for the army, it was considered as punishment. I only a learned a bit when the AL government negotiated with them, but the issues was very politicized. BTW, this analogy is from my personal observation.

Here is what wikipedia says about the Chittagong hill tracts
Quote:
During the 1970s and 80s, there were attempts by the Government to resettle the area with Bengali people. These attempts were resisted by the tribals, who with the latent support of neighbouring India, formed a guerilla force called Shanti Bahini. As a result of the tribal resistance movement, successive governments turned the Hill Tracts into a militarised zone. A good source of information on Shanti Bahini and, indeed, on the Chittagong Hill Tracts people, is the letter to the editor of the New York Times by Professor Bernard Nietschmann published on October 25, 1986 (archived by the Fourth World Documentation Project) at the Center for World Indigenous Studies website.


The Bengali people have been accused of committing genocides against the minority tribal people with silent support from the law enforcers. One often citied incident took place in 1992 in Mallya[1] and / or Logang[2]. The Bangladeshi army, too, have been accused of numerous human rights violations within the Hill Tracts, and their personnel have been accused of torture, killings and abduction. Amongst these, the disappearance of Chakma political activist Kalpana Chakma in 1996 attracted widespread condemnation.
Here is amnesty internal report on human rights in Chittagong hill tracts
Did you know that this incident sited by amnesty international. i did not until a couple of minutes ago. To be fair, violence was committed by both sides.
Quote:
6.2 Killings at Babu Chara Bazar
One incident represents a stark reminder of tactics used by the army in the past condoning reprisal attacks on the Jumma people by army personnel and non-tribal settlers. According to reports, three people were killed in at Babu Chara Bazar in Dighinala Thana area of Khagrachari on 16 October 1999 in a clash between the army personnel and the Jummas. The clash reportedly occurred after an incident in which a Bangladeshi army personnel allegedly molested a Jumma woman. The woman shouted at him and the army personnel and another colleague who came to defend him were beaten by a number of young Jumma people. Subsequently, a contingent of army personnel came to the area aided by some 150 Bengali settlers and jointly attacked the Jummas in the Bazar. Two Jummas, Dipon Joyoti Chakma, a high school student, and Sukamal Chakma died of their injuries while the body of a Jumma man who was believed to have been killed during the attack was discovered in a nearby muddy paddy. Three Jumma homes were reportedly set on fire, Benuban Buddhist Temple was ransacked, Buddhist monks were ill-treated and statues of Buddha were damaged. Although the government is reported to have set up an inquiry into the incident, no news about its progress or outcome has emerged so far raising fears that this incident will not be properly investigated and those found responsible punished.

My apologies for getting off topic with this post.
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  #45  
Old November 4, 2007, 12:29 PM
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Thank you for your post C_P. Allow me to clarify.

Most Pakistanis voted for PPP in the 1970 elections, and like the PPP, wanted to illegally "share power" with AL, the outright winners. This is because they feared majority rule from a Bengali majority. No doubt such attitudes were deeply influenced by their respective political elite, but their complacent silence during the entire course of our legitimate civil rights movement starting from 1952, with rare exceptions here and there, tell us of individual political choices which have always supported the status quo.

Having said that, I do not hold them accountable for the criminal actions of organizations and individuals during the struggle, neither do I disrespect their right to support the so called unity of Pakistan, but I must say that without their demonstrable support for PPP, Bhutto and Yahiya would never have dared to do what they did.

It is possible that most Pakistanis "didn't know" the details of what was going on despite overwhelming coverage of the atrocities, but such 'deniability', be it 'plausible' or 'questionable', does not excuse their political support for organizations and 'efforts' to deny us what is rightfully ours.

Our own "complicity of silence" with regards to atrocities committed during the CHT war similarly makes us somewhat accountable too. I remember reading about many demonstrations supporting "the plight of oppressed people and Muslims" from our leftist as well as Islamic parties and intellos, but fail to recollect anyone other than Farhad Mazhar and a handful of committed people involved with the magazine 'CHINTA' showing much enthusiasm or outrage when it came to similarly gross injustices in our own backyard. Typical 'monafeki' from our so called 'leftist' as well as 'Islamic' intellectual elite and most of their followers. As an Amnesty volunteer since 1985, I knew of less than 50 Bengali Bangladeshis who participated in publicizing the truth.

Not surprising from an opportunistic and iniquitous ruling class which laments the treatment of people and Muslims in Palestine, but conveniently does nothing when it comes to our own class-based, largely Muslim on Muslim violence. Expecting them to care about our Aboriginal ancestors and religious minorities is akin to expecting HaBa to break Lara's 400*. Possible but HIGHLY unlikely.

"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."

On a personal note, let me make it clear that I'm not a "Paki-basher." I have been to Pakistan many times since 1971, have been treated well there as a Bangladeshi every time especially in Karachi, and have Pakistani friends who love their country just as much as we love ours. So this is nothing personal. Just stating some facts and an opinion …
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Last edited by Sohel; November 4, 2007 at 01:57 PM..
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  #46  
Old November 4, 2007, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel NR
Thank you for your post C_P. Allow me to clarify.

Most Pakistanis voted for PPP in the 1970 elections, and like the PPP, wanted to illegally "share power" with AL, the outright winners. This is because they feared majority rule from a Bengali majority. No doubt such attitudes were deeply influenced by their respective political elite, but their complacent silence during the entire course of our legitimate civil rights movement starting from 1952, with rare exceptions here and there, tell us of individual political choices which have always supported the status quo.

Having said that, I do not hold them accountable for the criminal actions of organizations and individuals during the struggle, neither do I disrespect their right to support the so called unity of Pakistan, but I must say that without their demonstrable support for PPP, Bhutto and Yahiya would never have dared to do what they did.

It is possible that most Pakistanis "didn't know" the details of what was going on despite overwhelming coverage of the atrocities, but such 'deniability', be it 'plausible' or 'questionable', does not excuse their political support for organizations and 'efforts' to deny us what is rightfully ours.

Our own "complicity of silence" with regards to atrocities committed during the CHT war similarly makes us somewhat accountable too. I remember reading about many demonstrations supporting "the plight of oppressed people and Muslims" from our leftist as well as Islamic parties and intellos, but fail to recall anyone other than Farhad Mazhar and people involved with the magazine 'CHINTA' showing much enthusiasm. As an Amnesty volunteer since 1985, I knew of less than 50 Bengali Bangladeshis who participated in publicizing the truth.

Not surprising from an opportunistic and iniquitous ruling class which laments the treatment of people and Muslims in Palestine, but conveniently does nothing when it comes to our own class-based, largely Muslim on Muslim violence. Expecting them to care about our Aboriginal ancestors and religious minorities is akin to expecting HaBa to break Lara's 400*. Possible but HIGHLY unlikely.

"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."

On a personal note, let me make it clear that I'm not a "Paki-basher." I have been to Pakistan many times since 1971, have been treated well there as a Bangladeshi everytime especially in Karachi, and have Pakistani friends. So this is nothing personal. Just stating some facts and an opinion …
WOW, you were an amnesty international volunteer from 1985!!! You are really hardcore!!! I always thought you are a couple of years older than me, but I don't think its true

BTW, i did not think you are a paki-basher.
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  #47  
Old November 4, 2007, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cricket_pagol
WOW, you were an amnesty international volunteer from 1985!!! You are really hardcore!!! I always thought you are a couple of years older than me, but I don't think its true

BTW, i did not think you are a paki-basher.
He he he ... I'm 40 and an OLDE DAWG bro. My first campaigns for Amnesty involved Hana Mikhaylenko, a Ukranian prisoner of conscience, and Wei Jing Sheng, a Chinese prisoner of conscience. I also was a part of the anti-apartheid campaign in University of San Francisco, my school at the time, and played a part in forcing our Board of Trustees 'divest' from South Africa. Before moving to Berkeley, I worked closely with USF Campus Ministry locally as well as in Sandinista Nicaragua and FMLN held parts of El Salvador ...
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Last edited by Sohel; November 4, 2007 at 02:04 PM..
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  #48  
Old November 4, 2007, 06:21 PM
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Some 10 years back, i had come across a usenet group where a Bangla guy, Jamal Hassan used to write. Very impressive account, it was an eye-opener.

Obviously, not many know about 1971 genocide and most of the responsibility and blame goes on the Bangladesh itself.
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  #49  
Old November 4, 2007, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Sahastra
Some 10 years back, i had come across a usenet group where a Bangla guy, Jamal Hassan used to write. Very impressive account, it was an eye-opener.

Obviously, not many know about 1971 genocide and most of the responsibility and blame goes on the Bangladesh itself.
Could you elaborate? Not sure i understood you correctly.
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Last edited by Farhad; November 4, 2007 at 06:51 PM..
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  #50  
Old November 5, 2007, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Sahastra
Some 10 years back, i had come across a usenet group where a Bangla guy, Jamal Hassan used to write. Very impressive account, it was an eye-opener.
Any way you could dig them up and post the links please?
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