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View Poll Results: Which is the best solution for a state?
Secular laws, seperating religion and society 18 62.07%
Sharia laws, religious Muslim laws applied 8 27.59%
Neutral, neither laws applied with freedom of speech 2 6.90%
Don't know 1 3.45%
Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll

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  #51  
Old January 6, 2008, 02:12 AM
HereWeGo HereWeGo is offline
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Shaad just to add a little more to your Final Para.
The AL alliance with the fundamentalist group has been scrapped. So we can still dream of a secular state. There has been severe opposition from both with in AL and the alliance. The deal was the idea of Hasina and Jalil and honestly they are the two most corrupt individuals inside the party. The rest of AL was totally opposed to it and we are thankful to the leaders for that. Although SH is the leading figure inside the party but she is not the Party itself. I sincerely believe that the majority inside AL and inside Bangladesh shall never support such a move by AL.
And thus we can still dream of a completely secular Bangladesh.
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  #52  
Old January 6, 2008, 03:21 AM
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ammark ammark is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HereWeGo
U mean Atheist and Agnosts do not have any morals????..
....
Joy bangla
I suggest you brush up on Sarc 101
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  #53  
Old January 6, 2008, 02:11 PM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien
Allah says in Surah Al-Buqarah that "There is no compulsion in religion". All that stuff about non-muslims forced to obey Islamic laws are man made impositions that violates that line from Quran. We very well know where they come from - what we call extremists, people who twisted the noble words of the Quran to suit their opinions and retarded outlook on life and society.

By balanced I think Mohsin refers to the having a blend of secularism with Sharia laws while leaving the harsh bits behind. Basically apply what they have in common and chuck out the rest. Those "rests" are the rules like "All women have to wear" Burqa etc.
well said...allah also says "unto you your religion, and unto me my religion"
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  #54  
Old January 6, 2008, 02:59 PM
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Moshin Moshin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HereWeGo
Shaad just to add a little more to your Final Para.
The AL alliance with the fundamentalist group has been scrapped. So we can still dream of a secular state. There has been severe opposition from both with in AL and the alliance. The deal was the idea of Hasina and Jalil and honestly they are the two most corrupt individuals inside the party. The rest of AL was totally opposed to it and we are thankful to the leaders for that. Although SH is the leading figure inside the party but she is not the Party itself. I sincerely believe that the majority inside AL and inside Bangladesh shall never support such a move by AL.
And thus we can still dream of a completely secular Bangladesh.
wow...its a dream to some of you guys isnt it, a secular Bangladesh, i didnt know its a dream... well shame on the Awami League I personally think, no wonder she's in jail at the moment.

Last edited by Moshin; January 6, 2008 at 03:33 PM..
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  #55  
Old January 6, 2008, 03:44 PM
samircreep samircreep is offline
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mixing sharia with secularism may strike most as the happy middle ground but im really curious. which bits would you leave out? Im a bangladeshi citizen and i fully believe in gay rights, the right to abortion and abolition of corporal punishment in the judicial system including capital punishment. as a citizen of bangladesh, where would that leave me?

granted, even secular countries have problems adapting the above principles, but surely laws based on religious dictum are only going to make things worse. or probalby im gonna get thrown into prison or killed at some point.
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  #56  
Old January 6, 2008, 04:20 PM
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The answer can be found by oberserving the results. Those two systems are already in place in different countries in the world. We need to pick up countries one by one which is practicing either of those two systems to see how it is doing at this moment.
This is not very difficult to find out the successful one.
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  #57  
Old January 6, 2008, 05:35 PM
samircreep samircreep is offline
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wow. a country that practises sharia and has freedom of speech, gives equal space to religious+sexual minorities AND no capital punishment? i cant hold my breath any longer...reveal o prescient one!
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  #58  
Old January 7, 2008, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samircreep
wow. a country that practises sharia and has freedom of speech, gives equal space to religious+sexual minorities AND no capital punishment? i cant hold my breath any longer...reveal o prescient one!
sorry to burst your bubble but there isnt any country not that i know of.
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  #59  
Old January 7, 2008, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by view360
The answer can be found by oberserving the results. Those two systems are already in place in different countries in the world. We need to pick up countries one by one which is practicing either of those two systems to see how it is doing at this moment.
This is not very difficult to find out the successful one.
I found one!

Contemporary practice
There is tremendous variety in the interpretation and implementation of Islamic Law in Muslim societies today. Liberal movements within Islam have questioned the relevance and applicability of sharia from a variety of perspectives; Islamic feminism brings multiple points of view to the discussion. Several of the countries with the largest Muslim populations, including Indonesia, Bangladesh and Pakistan, have largely secular constitutions and laws, with only a few Islamic provisions in family law. Turkey has a constitution that is officially strongly secular. India and the Philippines are the only countries in the world which have separate Muslim civil laws, framed by Muslim Personal Law board, and wholly based on Sharia and the Code of Muslim Personal Laws of the Philippines. However, the criminal laws are uniform. Some controversial sharia laws favour Muslim men, including polygamy and rejection of alimony. Most countries of the Middle East and North Africa maintain a dual system of secular courts and religious courts, in which the religious courts mainly regulate marriage and inheritance. Saudi Arabia and Iran maintain religious courts for all aspects of jurisprudence, and religious police assert social compliance. Laws derived from sharia are also applied in Afghanistan, Libya and Sudan. Some states in northern Nigeria have reintroduced Sharia courts.[9] In practice the new Sharia courts in Nigeria have most often meant the re-introduction of harsh punishments without respecting the much tougher rules of evidence and testimony. The punishments include amputation of one/both hands for theft, stoning for adultery and apostasy.[citation needed]
Many (including the European Court of Human Rights) consider the punishments prescribed by Sharia as being barbaric and cruel. Islamic scholars argue that, if implemented properly, the punishments serve as a deterrent to crime.[10] In international media, practices by countries applying Islamic law have fallen under considerable criticism at times. This is particularly the case when the sentence carried out is seen to greatly tilt away from established standards of international human rights. This is true for the application of the death penalty for the crime of adultery, and other such punishments such as amputations for the crime of theft and flogging for fornication or public intoxication. [1]
Though Islamic law is interpreted differently across times, places and scholars, following fundamentalist's literal and traditional interpretations, Muslim scholars believe it should legally be binding on all people of the Muslim faith and even on all people who come under their control.[citation needed]
A bill proposed by lawmakers in the Indonesian province of Aceh would impose Sharia law on all non-Muslims, the armed forces and law enforcement officers, a local police official has announced. The news comes two months after the Deutsche Presse-Agentur warned of "Taliban-style Islamic police terrorizing Indonesia's Aceh".[11][12][13]

---
Secularism is an assertion or belief that religious issues should not be the basis of politics, a movement that promotes those ideas or (in the extreme) an ideology that holds that religion has no place in public life. Secularist organizations are distinguished from merely secular ones by their political advocacy of such positions.
-------This word derives from a Latin word meaning "of the age." The Christian doctrine that God exists outside of time led medieval Western culture to use secular to indicate separation from religious affairs and involvement in worldly (or time-related) ones. This meaning has been extended to apply to separation from any religion, whether or not it has a similar doctrine. This is why the majority of Chrisitian countries are seen to have secular laws.

Sharia (Arabic: شريعة transliteration: Šarī`ah) is the body of Islamic religious law. The term means "way" or "path to the water source"; it is the legal framework within which the public and some private aspects of life are regulated for those living in a legal system based on Muslim principles of jurisprudence and for Muslims living outside the domain. Sharia deals with many aspects of day-to-day life, including politics, economics, banking, business, contracts, family, sexuality, hygiene, and social issues.
There is no strictly static codified set of laws of sharia. Sharia is more of a system of devising laws, based on the Qur'an (the religious text of Islam), hadith (sayings and doings of Muhammad), (sayings and doings of the early followers of Muhammad), ijma (consensus), qiyas (analogy) and centuries of debate, interpretation and precedent.

Under Sharia law non-Muslims may be subjected to Sharia Laws however it codifies the treatment of dhimmis in relation to the Muslim state and in cases of over-lapping jurisdiction. Dhimmis are distinctly second-class citizens in that they cannot serve in public office, cannot testify in court and must follow certain rules meant for living on Muslim land and under Muslim protection (such as paying the jizya). The jizya or tax is enforced on those who broke a treaty or attacked Muslim with no right (as a punishment) or required from those who ask for protection without enrolling in the army. The rules include privilege to practice their own religion, except for public demonstration of non-Muslim religious practices and the right to convert Muslims.

The majority have mixed laws applied in thier country.

Last edited by Moshin; January 7, 2008 at 03:29 PM..
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  #60  
Old January 11, 2008, 09:33 AM
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Moshin Moshin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by view360
The answer can be found by oberserving the results. Those two systems are already in place in different countries in the world. We need to pick up countries one by one which is practicing either of those two systems to see how it is doing at this moment.
This is not very difficult to find out the successful one.
Here is your request view360, very interesting map of the Muslim World:

Last edited by Moshin; January 26, 2008 at 12:17 PM..
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  #61  
Old January 11, 2008, 01:41 PM
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ammark ammark is offline
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...and turns out that the world's most populous muslim country has "no constitutional declaration" whatsoever. 'Nuff said.
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  #62  
Old January 11, 2008, 03:38 PM
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Moshin Moshin is offline
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Well it doesnt matter about the most populus muslim country in the world, you have to look at the cultural reasons and meanings in every region. Indonesia doesnt really give the overall facts of the Muslim World. You have to look at every country to really make a decision....
Declared Islamic States: 10
Declared as State religion: 11
No constitutional decleration: 9
Declared Secular States: 11
... Secularism or State Religion that is what it shows. Desh might be edging closer?
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