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  #2451  
Old October 23, 2011, 01:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F6_Turbo
Took me about 20 minutes to do this
u just lost 20 mins of ur life on "ash=nothing"...kono stat dakhay lav nai..ash er kono vhul kisu public dakhena..
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  #2452  
Old October 23, 2011, 03:45 AM
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Turbo, you've just wasted your time since most people don't even believe Ash deserves the air in his lungs, let alone him being the only match-winner in the team. A better argument would be that Ash has a poor record. But here are his averages in all of our ODI wins:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...s;type=batting

Aus - 100
Ber - infinite
Can - 60
Eng - 14
HK - 9
Ind - 36
Ire - 41.66 (4 innings)
Ken - 24 (6 innings)
NZ - infinite
Sco - infinite
SA - 87
SL - 38.50
UAE - 109
WI -46.66
ZIM - 24.29

Total - 38.40

So ignoring subjective inanities like "non factor" and "factor" innings are pure averages, which don't lie. Subjective classifications are not very helpful because they often belie averages. I don't rate Junaid's 85 against NZ in 2008 higher than Ash's 60* because of the quality of the innings. But numerical superiority maintained over several innings is a quality in and of itself. Ash average's 40 in all the wins we've had, regardless of strength of opponent. Are you going to argue that 38 is a poor average?

Further, unlike what you've tried to portray, Ash's average is almost double in the 8 wins against G8 sides he's appeared in:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...s;type=batting

62.33 (excluded the 3rd sting WI side which actually would lower his average)...so he does seem to show up more against big sides...62 to 38. Ash has won more games against G8 sides with the bat than Tamim has. In fact, only Shakib has won as many as he has with "singular" efforts.

Definitely, Sir Ash is not required to win...but to suggest that he's simply a passenger is lying to soothe one's own prejudices (in this case open). Morale of your story: don't quit your day job, because unlike Ash, you can't piss on your boss' parade and still make a comeback.
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  #2453  
Old October 23, 2011, 05:07 AM
F6_Turbo F6_Turbo is offline
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Furqaan - The only reason I went to the effort of making the post I made was because repeatedly in this thread, we've had people call him a 'match winner'. Told repeatedly his average should be given context, so what if he barely averages 23 after a 170 ODI matches that span a decade, because, Bangladesh can't win without him - So I wanted to see how many matches has he actually won for Bangladesh.

I readily acknowledged his match winning innings against big and small, and the numbers tell the story, despite this tag of match winner, he actually hasn't won that many matches. Again, as you say, only Shakib has won more matches single handedly, but the pertinent issue here is, what is Ashraful contributing to the team at present? Is he worth his place? I don't feel he is.

I've purposefully ignored lone hands, or heroic performances in losses. Those defending him have time and time again said, the issue at hand is his match winning ability.

In the ~67 wins we've had since his debut, how many times has he top scored, or even been the 2nd highest scorer? It's nice for Ashraful to get a 35 in a win, but how significant is it(as you say his 60* not out, in next to no time was probably worth more than the sedate 80 odd by Junaid), when the top 3 scores are double that?

I labeled him a non factor, because I couldn't be bothered going through and listing individual scores for each innings, but suffice to say, the vast majority of the time I labeled his contribution as negligible in a win, he scored 20 or less.

But you're right, I have a personal dislike of Ashraful - but it's not because of his stupid dance, or his cheesy grin, or even the fact he pretends to be upset, when he gets dismissed after yet another reckless shot, but because after 10 years of international cricket, he has shown no real improvement. That to me, means a lack of effort, a lack of application, and a lack of dedication. You forgive the student who tries his best and gets a C+, but you never forgive the A+ student who pisses away his potential/talent and also ends up with a C+. I also have a serious problem with personality cults that dominate Bangladesh as I mentioned. People take a side, pick a person, and then will stick to that decision no matter what. I am critical of Ashraful, but let me be clear, if he were to come back to the team, and put together a string of performances, I would be only too happy to eat a healthy dose of humble pie.

As for my own day job, I only mention it because I was taught to earn my keep growing up(something I don't feel ashraful is doing, office-e eshe, hajira diye chole jaache, and at the end of the month, he's still collecting his wages) - only God or a malpractice suit will bring my own future into doubt(and being that, I am in Bangladesh atm, the issue of a malpractice suit that actually sticks is how do I put it politely...laughable).

By the by - your stats are interesting. Then again, numbers are always interesting.
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  #2454  
Old October 23, 2011, 08:07 AM
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দেড় লাখ টাকা জরিমানা গুণতে হচ্ছে আশরাফুলকে


স্পোর্টস করেসপন্ডেন্ট
বাংলানিউজটোয়েন্ট ফোর.কম
ছবি; বাংলানিউজটোয়েন্ট ফোর.কম
চট্টগ্রাম: টেস্ট দলের না থাকার বিষয়ে জাতীয় দল নির্বাচকদের গোপন কথা ফাঁস করে দেওয়ায় শেষপর্যন্ত মোহাম্মদ আশরাফুলের শাস্তি হচ্ছেই। আর্থিক দন্ডের পাশাপাশি ভবিষ্যতের জন্য সতর্ক করে দেওয়া হবে তাকে।

সমস্ত সিদ্ধান্ত চূড়ান্ত হয়ে আছে। সোমবার আশরাফুলকে চিঠি ধরিয়ে দেওয়া হবে। আপাতত অল্পের ওপর দিয়ে বেঁচে গেছেন জাতীয় দলের এই ব্যাটসম্যান। নির্ভরযোগ্য সূত্র জানিয়েছে দেড় লাখেরও কম টাকা জরিমানা করা হচ্ছে। তবে সতর্ক করা হচ্ছে কঠোর ভাষায়।

ভবিষ্যতে অনুরূপ কোন ঘটনা ঘটলে বড় রকমের আর্থিক দন্ডের পাশাপাশি ক্রিকেটে সাময়িক নিষিদ্ধ হতে পারেন আশরাফুল।



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  #2455  
Old October 23, 2011, 08:11 AM
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lol,both Ash & Sachin are going through some "Jorimana"
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  #2456  
Old October 23, 2011, 01:07 PM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F6_Turbo
Furqaan - The only reason I went to the effort of making the post I made was because repeatedly in this thread, we've had people call him a 'match winner'. Told repeatedly his average should be given context, so what if he barely averages 23 after a 170 ODI matches that span a decade, because, Bangladesh can't win without him - So I wanted to see how many matches has he actually won for Bangladesh.

I readily acknowledged his match winning innings against big and small, and the numbers tell the story, despite this tag of match winner, he actually hasn't won that many matches. Again, as you say, only Shakib has won more matches single handedly, but the pertinent issue here is, what is Ashraful contributing to the team at present? Is he worth his place? I don't feel he is.

I've purposefully ignored lone hands, or heroic performances in losses. Those defending him have time and time again said, the issue at hand is his match winning ability.

In the ~67 wins we've had since his debut, how many times has he top scored, or even been the 2nd highest scorer? It's nice for Ashraful to get a 35 in a win, but how significant is it(as you say his 60* not out, in next to no time was probably worth more than the sedate 80 odd by Junaid), when the top 3 scores are double that?

I labeled him a non factor, because I couldn't be bothered going through and listing individual scores for each innings, but suffice to say, the vast majority of the time I labeled his contribution as negligible in a win, he scored 20 or less.

But you're right, I have a personal dislike of Ashraful - but it's not because of his stupid dance, or his cheesy grin, or even the fact he pretends to be upset, when he gets dismissed after yet another reckless shot, but because after 10 years of international cricket, he has shown no real improvement. That to me, means a lack of effort, a lack of application, and a lack of dedication. You forgive the student who tries his best and gets a C+, but you never forgive the A+ student who pisses away his potential/talent and also ends up with a C+. I also have a serious problem with personality cults that dominate Bangladesh as I mentioned. People take a side, pick a person, and then will stick to that decision no matter what. I am critical of Ashraful, but let me be clear, if he were to come back to the team, and put together a string of performances, I would be only too happy to eat a healthy dose of humble pie.

As for my own day job, I only mention it because I was taught to earn my keep growing up(something I don't feel ashraful is doing, office-e eshe, hajira diye chole jaache, and at the end of the month, he's still collecting his wages) - only God or a malpractice suit will bring my own future into doubt(and being that, I am in Bangladesh atm, the issue of a malpractice suit that actually sticks is how do I put it politely...laughable).

By the by - your stats are interesting. Then again, numbers are always interesting.
See how easy it was to come up with a sensible sounding post first up?

You're absolutely right, Ashraful is not contributing anything at the moment and deserved to get the chop. And technically you are correct he does not appear to have any match-winning capability anymore. However, we can't say that for sure until he retires. Ash's Cardiff knock came after golden duck the previous innings.

You may not have suggested it - but that is exactly what your research hints at - but Ashraful hasn't been a "non-factor" or a "dead weight" in the matches based on both his averages and strike rates. He averages nearly 40 in all wins, and over 60 in wins against the big boys. I don't see anything interesting in those numbers beyond contradicting the thesis of your previous post. Is Bradman's average merely interesting?

At the end of the day, its unfair to expect that Ash must be the top scorer in every innings in order to avoid getting the chop. Case in point, he was the 2nd leading scorer in that infamous 58 all out with 11. By your definition of leading scorer or "2nd" scorer that was a satisfactory innings, no?
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  #2457  
Old October 23, 2011, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F6_Turbo
Sarcasm not your strong suit? And he didn't spill sh-t, he sounds like the pampered prick that he is...been getting a free ride for years on this mythical 'talent' - talent that he chooses to display once every 25 matches. So now that he's been dropped on his arse, the little drama queen can't handle it. Had to run off to the media to create a controversy, while his ex-teammates bust their balls trying to do their best against the West Indies.

Shakib was also publicly slapped down after the tour of Zimbabwe - I'd say he is around a million times(conservative estimate) more important to bangladesh cricket than 'tard boy is..and thus has a lot more leverage.

Yet, he took his medicine, and, while not happy, has tried to refocus, and is concentrating on his game.

So yeah, I don't care that little 'tard boy feels he was harshly dealt with, not even zimbabwe would have kept him around for 170 matches if all he averaged was 22.

I support Bangladesh, and whatever combination of XI Bangladesh puts out on the field for a particular match, and ashraful the individual is insignificant compared to that.

Shala-r typical Bangladesh, personality cults...mujib, zia, hasina, khaleda...ashraful

No reason to get all ticked off dude... You dont get sarcasm either, do you? The point is simple, Ashraful didnt follow the media rules by BCB, punish him... you don't 'BAN'/LIFE BAN' a player for his outburst.. Shakib did that many times, Mashrafee did that few times, Nannu did that all the time... they never got banned.

Please do use restraints in your expressions...There is no 'Shalar typical Bangladeshi' personality cults here..its a matter of common sense and following the disciplinary actions as appropriate..
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  #2458  
Old October 23, 2011, 05:47 PM
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Ashraful is the ultimate Calypso Cricketer. He could have been so much more. Look at this from the 4th over onwards: http://www.espncricinfo.com/bdeshvin...iew=commentary
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  #2459  
Old October 23, 2011, 07:46 PM
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So our super talented calypso king scored 15 off 14 balls in domestic crcket......... Is that a failure or pressure?
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  #2460  
Old October 24, 2011, 02:51 AM
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The biggest blunder by selectors: letting Ashraful back into the team after that one innings against South Africa A back in may. that was his Eid Innings for the year. if he had two centuries against South Africa A then that's another matter..and i would have let him back into the team too.

even if he scores century now, it means very little to me unless he is consistent like Riyad who scored three centuries in a row 2/3 seasons ago
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  #2461  
Old October 24, 2011, 06:01 AM
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"Talking of the 'mighty atom' - when they were in Zim, my 9 year old son was among the boys that stood with the players for the national anthems. He was put with "Ash" - no giant himself. He quickly swapped my son for a kid of suitable stature. " That's an interesting story from Craig Jones.

From Cricinfo Commentary
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  #2462  
Old October 24, 2011, 06:43 AM
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^^hehe,that should be Zimfan son

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  #2463  
Old October 24, 2011, 08:43 AM
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To all haters,

Mohammad Ashraful is the best T20 batsman in Bangladesh, and the 40th best in the World, according to ICC.

You may not be ready to admit it, but that doesn't take anything away from him.

http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/ranking/t20/
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  #2464  
Old October 24, 2011, 08:43 AM
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Ash scored 58 today with hurricane pace !!
Mohammad Ashraful* c Taibur Rahman b Mahbubul Alam 58, 7 X 4, 2 X 6, 85.29
http://www.espncricinfo.com/banglade...ch/536716.html
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  #2465  
Old October 24, 2011, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinaman_f
To all haters,

Mohammad Ashraful is the best T20 batsman in Bangladesh, and the 40th best in the World, according to ICC.

You may not be ready to admit it, but that doesn't take anything away from him.
We are not taking anything away from him. But he is not anything exception to have so much admiration. We currently have a lot of better batsmen (in terms of application, i am not convinced by the word "talent") in Bangladesh who can replace him in the national side (ODI and Test). As he is playing good in T20, he should continue there.
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  #2466  
Old October 24, 2011, 08:56 AM
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This thread never runs out of new posts
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  #2467  
Old October 24, 2011, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaan
Ash scored 58 today with hurricane pace !!
Mohammad Ashraful* c Taibur Rahman b Mahbubul Alam 58, 7 X 4, 2 X 6, 85.29
http://www.espncricinfo.com/banglade...ch/536716.html
Ash sobsomoy ghoroa league a erokom khele kintu antorjatik match a ja korar tai kore.
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  #2468  
Old October 24, 2011, 09:20 AM
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Ash ekjon grihopalito chele=StayDomesticSon, he should remain ek ghoroa, his team mates will get the lifetime opportunity playing side by side to Ash and unlike Ash some of them will shine in intrntnls aswell also too.

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  #2469  
Old October 24, 2011, 09:36 AM
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lol everyway blind ash fans come to defend him...these guy seriously knows some voodoo

anyway i dont think anybody is against his t20 inclusion...as long as he is 2000000000000000000000000 light years away from the odi team i am happy
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  #2470  
Old October 24, 2011, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhakablues
No reason to get all ticked off dude... You dont get sarcasm either, do you? The point is simple, Ashraful didnt follow the media rules by BCB, punish him... you don't 'BAN'/LIFE BAN' a player for his outburst.. Shakib did that many times, Mashrafee did that few times, Nannu did that all the time... they never got banned.

Please do use restraints in your expressions...There is no 'Shalar typical Bangladeshi' personality cults here..its a matter of common sense and following the disciplinary actions as appropriate..
No one here seriously suggested that he be given a year/life ban for his 'outburst/comments'...it was obviously in jest.

As for my accusations of personality cults - stand by that terminology, I didn't use it off the back of this incident, I used it based on a decade of international cricket, and the adulation he continues to receive despite doing so little to receive it, imo of course.

It might not be applicable to you, though I quoted your post, I didn't intend for you to be the sole 'target'. We most definitely have a personality cult in Bangladesh and in Bangladeshi cricket, for some, certain individuals can do no wrong, and should be given plenty of slack.

As I explained in latter posts, his interview is not the main cause of my anger, it is his ineptness in his chosen profession, I simply chose to let all my grievances manifest in that post.
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  #2471  
Old October 24, 2011, 05:31 PM
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রেনেসাঁ মানব স্যার এশ-এর দিন ফুরিয়ে এলো মনে হয়। নাসির, সানি, হোম দেরই যুগ এখন...

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  #2472  
Old October 24, 2011, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinaman_f
To all haters,

Mohammad Ashraful is the best T20 batsman in Bangladesh, and the 40th best in the World, according to ICC.

You may not be ready to admit it, but that doesn't take anything away from him.

http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/ranking/t20/
And he's still the youngest Test centurion, yes, we know. We don't want to detract from his previous achievements but honestly, we've been trying to move on from the era of once-in-a-blue-moon type of wins (which he used to deliver) to greater consistency and competitiveness. I believe we finally have a core of players to do so.

Ash isn't a part of that core...but I won't rule out that he can be.
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  #2473  
Old October 24, 2011, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinaman_f
To all haters,

Mohammad Ashraful is the best T20 batsman in Bangladesh, and the 40th best in the World, according to ICC.

You may not be ready to admit it, but that doesn't take anything away from him.

http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/ranking/t20/
Sir Ash can be the best batsman in Bangladesh only in a world where Aftab is the second best batsman. And what a surprise! That's precisely what these rankings state!
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  #2474  
Old October 25, 2011, 11:59 PM
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Imrul needs to be dropped from team. SN can open and Ash needs to be in the team. (My honest realization as I could not find a better test batsman than Ashraful).
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  #2475  
Old October 26, 2011, 03:51 AM
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I think ash's international career along with some other older generation cricketers is over now. They have fallen out of favour with the current selectors. I hope they show consistency by drafting in other new players who have done well instead of recycling the other failed lot.
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