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  #1  
Old May 5, 2008, 03:50 AM
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Rifat Rifat is offline
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Default Bangladesh without Dav Whatmore: the deficiency...

here is how i interpret the past 9 months regarding Bangladesh Cricket:

1. Whatmore had many policies with our team: among which, one of them was the most effective: containment, yes. our goal was to allow the opponent to score as a few runs as possible over a period of time in ODI, and we have alhamdulillah, done that well under his regime many times. he has trained our players to focus on one thing and one thing at a time only. that's how our team grew and attracted success into their daily cricketing life, is by mastering the very small things, and that's how alhamdulillah we improved significantly on fielding and bowling.

now, without whatmore, i have noticed a lot of change in our gaming strategies, we are not focused on containing our opponent anymore? this "containment" strategy is absent under the matches i have seen from Jamie Siddons.

2. under whatmore, team was lot more disciplined: i am not saying that we are lacking discipline now... but we are definitely not focused, the management is not focused. we keep playing around with lineup like trial and error and trial and error everymatch, if we are to build up a mighty lineup inshallah, we have to stick to a core of players with good selection policy.

players like Rajin Saleh thrived under whatmore, after Whatmore left, i have not yet seen him even in tests(where he comparatively did better)

3. under whatmore, we definitely had a good, logical, reachable gameplan... these days sometimes (it appears to be) they play without a gameplan.... i might be incorrect here but i personally think that the current gameplan is ineffective.(again, i will comment on that inshallah after the tri series...more ODI)

we seem to be lacking this principle these days: think of what you can do, not what you can't, because under whatmore, it was many small achievements combined to form a good team, now we are just going for a win without achieving these small steps first; which is quite ineffective.

no offense to jamie siddons: but the only positive thing i have noticed from his reign is that we are supposedly emphasizing our batting approach and strategy, which paid of in some cases(Tamim), and which went the other way in some cases(Aftab). he is a positive thinker, but you have to reach a point where you work on building a solid foundation first before climbing the stairs.


all i am saying is that even is whatmore doesn't come back, at least i demand the strategies and attributes he implemented to this team before should be reapplied now; who knows? we might even end up winning the asia cup and the tri series? Allahu' Aleem.
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  #2  
Old May 5, 2008, 05:38 AM
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i have noticed this.. ever since whatmore went.. everything started going haywire.. its a fact that even with whatmore we did have a few bad games.. but we did pretty much improve day by day.. we used to be pretty consistent and the players seemed to go into the field with a mission.. to win.. or perform better.. but now.. really.. it seems as if the players go into the field without an aim.. they seem to play just for the sake of it.. i have seen a few personal improvements.. but overall.. our teams performance has become pathetic.. we can't get whatmore back.. but can't js actually try and continue some of whatmores methods?? individual batting of a few has improved.. but overall.. batting has gone down.. bowling attack has become weaker.. and fielding.. i wouldn't like to talk about it.. i don't see a team effort from these guys any more..
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  #3  
Old May 5, 2008, 06:08 AM
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Very well said. And yes...I guess the loss of Whatmore and its effects are now obvious. Quite depressing really. You've also mentioned Rajin Saleh. Man I don't know anything about him anymore...wonder how he's doing.
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  #4  
Old May 5, 2008, 11:55 AM
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fwullah fwullah is offline
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We also have to think of the captaincy factor.

Under Whatmore, he had a good captain (though not a performing captain, towards the end of his stint) in Habibul Bashar.

However, Siddons has a very young captain in Ashraful, who, from the beginning of his captaincy career, is a (also) non-performing captain.

Just remember - Whatmore also had Sujon at his helm in the beginning, who was also a non-performing captain.

And most of the things noted and posted by rifat - involves the captaincy factor. If your captain can't show other players to be focused, then the coach has nothing to do but to do bok-bok.
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  #5  
Old May 5, 2008, 12:11 PM
thebest thebest is offline
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FW,
quite summed it up. DW have very lucky in captain. HB statistically the best captain we have albeit non-performing towards end. On the other hand his first captain Sujon though nonperforming is the best captain we ever have; But still DW's team was quite focus on the task o hand. but in all the matches I saw I find the team is uninterested, something bothering; not the zeal is there. it may be the captain thing or may be other things; may be JS is failing to inspire them.
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  #6  
Old May 5, 2008, 01:03 PM
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akabir77 akabir77 is offline
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I think people here are missing one big thing which is we never played against the big guns like now under dav. yeah we player 2/3 matches and then we had zimbos. So thats why when we r trying to remember what was it like under dav we can think oh we were constant under him. This is not true. look up the matches against the big guns in a row you will see we got similar kind of whipping. But not the difference is batsmen r accountable for playing in the air...

But fielding wise we are going down thats for sure...
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  #7  
Old May 5, 2008, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebest
... may be JS is failing to inspire them.
When
the outlook is we are #9, [and we won against similar opponents while being at #10]
we are not good enough to face 145 kmph balls, [and we played against 150+ kmph balls]
the gap between us and others huge, [and back then the gap was bigger]
we wait till our opponent faulter still can't compete [whereas before they played their best and we won]

then
I must say for any coach it would be hard to inspire.

Our main stay most experience batsman says the following: (summarizing)

1) I played good cricket where three times I crossed the double figure mark against (see above...)

2nd most experience batsman says:
2) After scoring 57 in 5 tries (with one innings of 42) says he played well.

What would the young generation learn from this? how can one inspire losers?

If our 1999 team can win against Pakistan, how come our 2008 team can't compete?
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Last edited by Tigers_eye; May 5, 2008 at 01:09 PM..
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  #8  
Old May 5, 2008, 10:46 PM
ehteshamul ehteshamul is offline
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Default Reply From Ehteshamul

Quote:
Originally Posted by rifat
here is how i interpret the past 9 months regarding Bangladesh Cricket:

1. Whatmore had many policies with our team: among which, one of them was the most effective: containment, yes. our goal was to allow the opponent to score as a few runs as possible over a period of time in ODI, and we have alhamdulillah, done that well under his regime many times. he has trained our players to focus on one thing and one thing at a time only. that's how our team grew and attracted success into their daily cricketing life, is by mastering the very small things, and that's how alhamdulillah we improved significantly on fielding and bowling.

now, without whatmore, i have noticed a lot of change in our gaming strategies, we are not focused on containing our opponent anymore? this "containment" strategy is absent under the matches i have seen from Jamie Siddons.

2. under whatmore, team was lot more disciplined: i am not saying that we are lacking discipline now... but we are definitely not focused, the management is not focused. we keep playing around with lineup like trial and error and trial and error everymatch, if we are to build up a mighty lineup inshallah, we have to stick to a core of players with good selection policy.

players like Rajin Saleh thrived under whatmore, after Whatmore left, i have not yet seen him even in tests(where he comparatively did better)

3. under whatmore, we definitely had a good, logical, reachable gameplan... these days sometimes (it appears to be) they play without a gameplan.... i might be incorrect here but i personally think that the current gameplan is ineffective.(again, i will comment on that inshallah after the tri series...more ODI)

we seem to be lacking this principle these days: think of what you can do, not what you can't, because under whatmore, it was many small achievements combined to form a good team, now we are just going for a win without achieving these small steps first; which is quite ineffective.

no offense to jamie siddons: but the only positive thing i have noticed from his reign is that we are supposedly emphasizing our batting approach and strategy, which paid of in some cases(Tamim), and which went the other way in some cases(Aftab). he is a positive thinker, but you have to reach a point where you work on building a solid foundation first before climbing the stairs.


all i am saying is that even is whatmore doesn't come back, at least i demand the strategies and attributes he implemented to this team before should be reapplied now; who knows? we might even end up winning the asia cup and the tri series? Allahu' Aleem.
WHATMORE VS SIDDONS?

I am glad that you opened a very important thread.

The shortcomings that I find is that under Siddons our team has lost the Killer instinct- The confidence and capability to beat the very best which we have done in the past against the Aussies, South Africa, India, One Innings wonders in a test match against Australia to name a few.

The present team combination also looks brittle with the top order and batting experience, absence of Javed and Rajin is felt and imbalance of composition of the team has definitely affected our performance against Pakistan.

I also feel we are lacking in proper game plan under Siddons which was not the case with Dav.

The positioning of players also seem not right in consequence of which Aftab and Ashraful has suffered quite a bit along with that our team.

The concern which I have and a serious one is that if we continue to get thrashed like we suffered against Pakistan ICC will not shy away to show us the door . In otherwords there is a great danger that we might lose test status which was earned after years of toil of Cricketers, Coaches, BCB and others.

The other problem that has creeped lately in the players is lack of motivation to do better.

How can one team win or give their best when they think what they are doing is satisfactory as expressed by Aftab and Ashraful?

What sort of motivation and moral is now existing with our players?

I have never seen our players with moral and motivation so low under any of the Ex Coaches- Dave Whatmore and Gordon Greenidge.

It is good that BCB is seriously looking into the present situation by talking to players and unearth causes that is greatly hurting team performance.

Siddons I reckon is doing and will do well in improving the batting of both our senior and junior team because of his proven experience with Senior Austrian cricket team as Specialist Batting Coach.

But as Head Coach I am not sure how effective he will be in areas of Tactics, Game plan, Bowling and Fielding where Dav Whatmore is a clear winner.

But things do change. I do hope he will do some wonders for us after he returns from vacation.

Who knows his next phase with us may help us with a U TURN – FROM FAILURE TO VICTORY.

Afterall Aussies are the Best Coaches in the world whether Assistant, Batting, Bowling or Head.

Bottom line – He has to prove it. One hopes he succeeds.

We miss you Dav. But All the best to Siddons!

Last edited by ehteshamul; May 6, 2008 at 05:22 AM..
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  #9  
Old May 5, 2008, 10:56 PM
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Ajfar Ajfar is offline
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rifat finals started today...where'd u find time to write this up...
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  #10  
Old April 13, 2011, 06:24 PM
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Rifat Rifat is offline
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perhaps, there is something to learn:

Strategy is as important as Long term Vision. the Next Bangladeshi Coach needs a combination of both!
Intelligent Strategy with limited abilities can only get you so far...but Long term vision without Strategy is blind.

I feel Ian Pont and Fountain or any one of them has both of these qualities and can seriously take us to heights where we truly belong with the elite.
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  #11  
Old April 14, 2011, 05:04 AM
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MarvinDaMartian MarvinDaMartian is offline
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Cricket has changed from Whatmore-era to Siddons-era. T20 has changed ODIs and now ODIs have, in general, higher scores. That probably answers your issue #1. ODI are high-scoring affair anyway now-a-days.

Any coach coaching Bangladesh will have to go with small things. Based on our player's skillset, communication skill, learning skill good coaches adjust their training to set smaller goals. Whatmore did that, Siddons did that. Siddons had the goal simple 'increase your batting average'. So after 3.5 years we have 3-4 batsmen with 30 avg. In Whatmore's time I think we had only Habibul Bashar.

About #2: My complain against BCB is not extending Siddon's player pool. During his 4 yr time Siddons wanted to stick to a selected 15 players. Not sure why, but my guess is the selection process to have 30 players is probably not clearly defined by BCB and not transparent. Probably that is why Siddons did not try scouting for players from national league or other local tournaments.

About #3. Agree with the game plan. Although we are a 10 year old test playing nation we get happy scoring 295 against Australia's 361. This mind-set need to be changed. Was the last ODI any close? Upto 30 overs - yes. After that we lost the plot.
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