facebook Twitter RSS Feed YouTube StumbleUpon

Home | Forum | Chat | Tours | Articles | Pictures | News | Tools | History | Tourism | Search

 
 


Go Back   BanglaCricket Forum > Cricket > Cricket

Cricket Join fellow Tigers fans to discuss all things Cricket

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old July 1, 2008, 07:22 AM
Fazal's Avatar
Fazal Fazal is offline
Cricket Sage
 
Join Date: September 16, 2004
Posts: 15,762

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebest
Fazal vai,
with the exception of his bald head the other critiques against JS is quite fair AFAI concern. Regarding the so called improvement let me clarify something.
1. Aftab: Is this the same Aftab we are talking who scored 57 runs in Pakistan. I saw no change in his approach in Pak tour. He yet made one good score in JS era. I was actually thinking we are seeing a new Aftab till that Kallis bouncer.
2. Ash is changing; but not improving. Before he was trying to hot 4/6 even to unplayable balls and now he defend in those balls which have 4 written all over.
3. You were talking about sticking on Farhad and Riyad. I do not watch so much Riyad bar one match. But I think he is actually destroying Farhad by making him opening bowler and toying with his batting position. AFAI concern he is the cleanest hitter of ball in Bangladesh team; now we are losing him. And I yet fail to nderstand why he dropped Dhiman; remember I am a Mushy fan
4. I do not know what improvement he made to Rakib. But this guy has a triple ton in domestic match and with Sakib and Mushy considered as the most thinking crickter in domestic circuit.
But anyway even as his harshest critique agree that he is a good batting coach (Tamim may attest); we have problem he being as head coach. We often talk why Ash is not learning? But is our coach learning? How many 300+ score needed agaienst us to realize that we need Rasel opening the bowling; you need to watch local game to spot talent. I was quite surprised to learn that JS agreed Alok's inclusion based on a single net practice. You need to perform in three departments (batting, bowling, fielding) to win a match. JS should know it better as he was the batting coach when SA chased 434, NZ succesively chased 350+. But in the last 10 monthes not a single match our three dept clicks. Unfortunatley we move forward two steps in batting but move backward four steps in fielding and eight steps in bowling. The blame should be put solely on JS.
thebest,

good points. I kind of agree the one that I highlighted.

- I also think that bouncer killed all the sign of progress that we may have seen in aftab

- I also have concern about Ash i.e. he is changing... whether it will do him any good or not, I don't know. I pretty much gave up on Ash ,,, but now atleast I am going to ait and see a little bit... may be the end result will be disappointing.... but atleast JS is trying to stir things up. So I will give some credit to him.

- About farhad I agree and I have the same concern, As an outsider I also think he is not used properly ... atleast he is not using his strength..... rather exposing his (Farhad's) weakness. Farhad is (still) not an opening bowler and he used to be much better batsman .... I don;t know what happend to his batting.

- I don;t who is behind Dhiman's inclusion and sudden exclusion. I didn't liked that also... specially the way they brought him and dumped him for no reason.

- About Rakib and Sakib, JS may or may not contributed anything, but as a coach when a player develops or fail to develop the coach gets some credit/discredit.... whether he deserve it or not we can ask that question.... but thats the way its works.... so I will give some credit to JS even he may not have anything to do with it.

-About the way Alok was inclided, I would put too much weight on it as I have very little respect on those taboid reporters. We know very litlle exactly what happens inside andI think we fans know very little about those ... reporters may know little bit more but not necessarily everything specially first hand knowledge ... most of the cases they know it from 2nd /3rd hand or even worse made up/partial information. I am not an Alok fan,,,, but i have to admid that his selection this time worked out fine for now,,,, its more justfied (by performance) than any other previous experiment with Alok.

- Yes fielding and bowling is the disapointemnt so far under him, Except may be the bowling imprivement of Sakib and Farhad. I don'tknow what is the problem. May be the departure of Rafiq and the lack of form of mashrafee and Rasel's injury contributed that also. But JS deserve some blame.


Don't get me wrong. I am not completely sold on JS. Now am I completely happy with all the deceions SJ is making. I also understand the concern some fans are raising regarding JS, Point by Point I agree some most of them. And as you all may know by now that I am not the most patient fan in this forum. But still at the end of the day, I am will to stick with Siddon for one more year before I pronounce him a failure as a coach. I think he is a new, young and in-experienced coach with determination and plan coaching a pretty bad team in completely different culture that he is not familiar with; his plan may work out, or it may not.... and people who are criticizing him, I kind of agree their points and I think is its healthy discussion and hopefully will guide him to right direction.... but I have to say it again..... I would rather stay with him one more year before I ask for his head..... because .... good or bad ... I see some changes... some of them I agree... some of them I may not.
__________________
Stop that “chudurbudur”
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old July 1, 2008, 07:53 AM
fwullah's Avatar
fwullah fwullah is offline
First BC Member
 
Join Date: June 20, 2002
Location: Dhaka
Favorite Player: A successful cricketer
Posts: 6,545

JS has a tough test ahead with South Africa tour coming up in November, where we'll also play a couple of test matches after a long long time.
__________________
I wish we could beat Australia in a Test Match!
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old July 1, 2008, 12:21 PM
rattlehead's Avatar
rattlehead rattlehead is offline
First Class Cricketer
 
Join Date: October 23, 2007
Location: Waterloo, ON
Favorite Player: D.Steyn & G.Smith
Posts: 372

siddons effect will have a more positive effect, but we need a damn bowling coach for that!!! where the hell is that lankan dude, he needs to shape up our pacers, and quick!
and batting has improved quite a lot
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old July 1, 2008, 01:37 PM
zainab zainab is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: August 16, 2007
Location: Canada
Favorite Player: Ash,Tamim, Rahim,Sakib
Posts: 4,650

JS has not been the Coach for 1 full year. He joined in November and since then, he has taken quite a few vacations. i do not have a fair opinion of him, I still feel that he blabbers too much and should shut up. Though India is a good team, they have improved a lot since Gary Kirsten came on board, especially in their fielding.

As a head coach, he should oversee all the aspects of the team, Batting, bowling and fielding, but I think that he is only interested in the batting. I think the only time he spends with them is when they are playing international cricket, other to that he is on vacation. I think he will go on another vacation after this competition and will be away for another 2 weeks. A hard tour of Australia is coming up and he should be having more training camps in Dhaka. These lads need individual coaching.

IMO, he is still not the right head coach.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old July 1, 2008, 01:50 PM
Sadz's Avatar
Sadz Sadz is offline
ODI Cricketer
 
Join Date: June 3, 2007
Location: England
Favorite Player: Sakib,Mash and Tamim
Posts: 760

He is too relaxed and he never seems to have genuine concerns for the team apart from the criticism he makes
__________________
I am a muslim soldier til i die, love me or hate me
Visit my excellent football website and give us your views WWW.FOOTIEFEVER.CO.CC
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old July 1, 2008, 01:56 PM
akabir77's Avatar
akabir77 akabir77 is offline
Cricket Guru
 
Join Date: February 23, 2004
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Favorite Player: Nantu Ghotok
Posts: 10,768

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadz
He is too relaxed and he never seems to have genuine concerns for the team apart from the criticism he makes
That is not true. Every body who earns that much has to be genuinely concern about their job else they would lose that in a puff.

He might not show that but i am not sure how one leaving outside my see that
__________________
1. Shahadat Hossain: Mufambisi c Mashud; Chigumbura lbw; Utseya c Mashud
2.
Abdur Razzak: P Utseya caught; RW Price lbw; CB Mpofu lbw
3. Rubel Hossain: Corey J A bowled; BB McCullum caught; JDS Neesham caught
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old July 1, 2008, 11:27 PM
BANFAN's Avatar
BANFAN BANFAN is offline
Cricket Sage
 
Join Date: March 26, 2007
Favorite Player: Shak-Ash-Tam
Posts: 16,689

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebest
I agree with almost everything bar the last para. I think it is better for us to appoint who have more tactical nous to be the head coach than JS. So it is better for us to get rid of him as early as possible. JS already proved that he is good but not great batting coach. I am actually impressed about the work he has done with the young cubs (Tamim, Raquibul, Sakib); but failed with the older cubs (SN, Aftab). I am not at all impressed with the transformation with Ashfluke.
I agree to you, if the individual performances are not attributed solely to JS. I don't agree with people who try to credit the coach for the performances of Alex, Rakib, Mami, Tamim... He had the biggest focus on Ash and it doesn't yet look good, but I hope it may be good. Tamim was changing much before JS came in, and All the others have hardly spent time with JS. These sorts of individual understanding and maturity was expected after the WC experience.

But JS is successfully exploiting the individual performances to his credit. And many of the people are being exploited as well.

Those who compare WM with JS, must remember that the situation & level of BD cric at the point of their taking over.
__________________
I'm with Shahbag for fair punishment of all war criminals. Im with Shahbag to stand for fair trials of all Corruption, all murders and social injustices occurred over last 40 years. I'm for a secular, corruption free & Just society in Bangladesh. Spirit of '71
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old July 3, 2008, 11:16 AM
thebest thebest is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: February 21, 2005
Location: in the blue planet
Posts: 3,798

In today's PA there is an article on development of players specially freak players in SL setup. What caught my attention was how SL coaches were enhancing players quality without taking out the players natural strong point. They never tried to change the players natural style but fine tuned it to meet the demand of team. This write up increased my dislike of JS more as he is trying to make change of Ashfluke. For God's sake Ash is a stroke player not a grafter. He is trying to make a Boycot out of Jayasuriya. DW never tried to change the natural flair of Jaya, Kalu, Gurusinha, Arvinda. Just fine tuned it and put insurence player in the form of Ranatunga, Tilakratna. I understand DW failed to fine tuned Ash but what JS is trying is simply insane. Probably we are going to miss our customary eid once/twice in a year which means we are losing our match winner. Don't get me wrong, Ash might ended up with higher batting average but we would lose our midas touch - Ash score big; we win ODI.
__________________
Twenty20 is not a gentleman's game. It's like a one-night stand and not a marriage. It is a street format and the goonda doesn't know what is a late cut or a cover drive
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old July 3, 2008, 11:24 AM
Sohel's Avatar
Sohel Sohel is offline
Cricket Savant
 
Join Date: April 18, 2007
Location: Dhaka
Favorite Player: Nazimuddin
Posts: 35,404

Spot on.

Also: -

Developing a strong FC BEFORE test status = Sri Lanka.

Glorified street cricket to test status = Bangladesh.
__________________
"And do not curse those who call on other than GOD, lest they blaspheme and curse GOD, out of ignorance. We have adorned the works of every group in their eyes. Ultimately, they return to their Lord, then He informs them of everything they had done." (Qur'an 6:108)
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old July 3, 2008, 11:30 AM
Pundit Pundit is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: August 17, 2002
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 3,338

[quote=thebest;709571]In today's PA there is an article on development of players specially freak players in SL setup. What caught my attention was how SL coaches were enhancing players quality without taking out the players natural strong point. They never tried to change the players natural style but fine tuned it to meet the demand of team. This write up increased my dislike of JS more as he is trying to make change of Ashfluke. quote]

Each disease has its own treatment and medicine.

Either way, I think Ash's day's for jhore-bok centuries have faded. Oppositions have figured out that he can be easily lured into a trap.

Until he learns how to play by the merit of the ball - we'll see things like a 11 bal 20 run scores.

So you'll still have your Eids, but the day is over after your prayers. No Eid dress for you to flaunt.
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old July 3, 2008, 12:13 PM
Beamer's Avatar
Beamer Beamer is offline
Cricket Guru
 
Join Date: December 15, 2003
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Favorite Player: Viv Richards, Sid Crosby.
Posts: 9,695

[quote=Pundit;709577]
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebest
In today's PA there is an article on development of players specially freak players in SL setup. What caught my attention was how SL coaches were enhancing players quality without taking out the players natural strong point. They never tried to change the players natural style but fine tuned it to meet the demand of team. This write up increased my dislike of JS more as he is trying to make change of Ashfluke. quote]

Each disease has its own treatment and medicine.

Either way, I think Ash's day's for jhore-bok centuries have faded. Oppositions have figured out that he can be easily lured into a trap.

Until he learns how to play by the merit of the ball - we'll see things like a 11 bal 20 run scores.

So you'll still have your Eids, but the day is over after your prayers. No Eid dress for you to flaunt.
When it comes to Ash, instead of two Eid's, I am willing participate in and celebrate ' baro mashe tero puja's '
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old July 3, 2008, 12:29 PM
Tigers_eye's Avatar
Tigers_eye Tigers_eye is offline
Cricket Savant
 
Join Date: June 30, 2005
Location: Little Rock
Favorite Player: Viv Richards, Steve Waugh
Posts: 25,183

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beamer
When it comes to Ash, instead of two Eid's, I am willing participate in and celebrate ' baro mashe tero puja's '
I am down with this. I have no issues with 13 puja's.
__________________
The Weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is an attribute of the Strong." - Ghandi.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old July 3, 2008, 01:10 PM
KnightBD's Avatar
KnightBD KnightBD is offline
ODI Cricketer
 
Join Date: February 10, 2007
Location: Dreamland
Favorite Player: The one and only "Mash"
Posts: 911

[quote=Pundit;709577]
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebest
In today's PA there is an article on development of players specially freak players in SL setup. What caught my attention was how SL coaches were enhancing players quality without taking out the players natural strong point. They never tried to change the players natural style but fine tuned it to meet the demand of team. This write up increased my dislike of JS more as he is trying to make change of Ash...
Don't make your decision based on the news. The reporter is biased and he wants the reader to do exactly what you have done! Those ... journalists!
__________________
Back to the future!
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old July 3, 2008, 01:13 PM
Pundit Pundit is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: August 17, 2002
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 3,338

[quote=Beamer;709582]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pundit

When it comes to Ash, instead of two Eid's, I am willing participate in and celebrate ' baro mashe tero puja's '
Could not have agreed more.

People are assuming that if Ash learns how to score 40/50 consitantly, than he'll forget how to score 100s.

I would rather have 4 batsmen add together 200 runs every game, and not one batsman score a 100 once every year.

Many of us stress so much on how poor our domestic is, but then, want Ash (a national team player) to play as if he is dominating the opposition in the domestic by playing like a Domestic player.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old July 3, 2008, 01:29 PM
Sadz's Avatar
Sadz Sadz is offline
ODI Cricketer
 
Join Date: June 3, 2007
Location: England
Favorite Player: Sakib,Mash and Tamim
Posts: 760

I agree that Ash should consistently score 50 more than anything else because that would benefit the team more and even if he does get a 100 it doesnt guarantee a win.
E.g. Alok's ton against India in vain!
__________________
I am a muslim soldier til i die, love me or hate me
Visit my excellent football website and give us your views WWW.FOOTIEFEVER.CO.CC
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old July 3, 2008, 01:35 PM
Jaybaba Jaybaba is offline
Club Cricketer
 
Join Date: January 31, 2008
Location: Farmgate
Favorite Player: Azharuddin
Posts: 73

We need to be patient. It hasn't yet been a year for JS.

What we can tell for sure is that he is definitely not a complete disaster like Mohsin Kamal & Co, who actually pulled Bangladesh backwards. On this basis alone, JS deserves to be given at least 4 years time - and then judge if his processes provide tangible results.

I like JS - he seems very practical and level headed. He is very aware of where we stand as an international team and is trying to go from that benchmark. His team rules, processes, etc are all based on the fact that we still are far behind than the G8 teams.

What works for teams like IND will not work for us - we cannot set a target of 300 right now. Once we are consistently making 250, then we can set a target of 275+.

We gotta learn to walk before we can run. We gotta learn to draw a test match before we can win.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old July 3, 2008, 03:06 PM
bujhee kom's Avatar
bujhee kom bujhee kom is offline
Cricket Sage
 
Join Date: June 27, 2007
Location: Dhaka Mental Hospital
Favorite Player: Mo Chow = Chow Mo
Posts: 21,486

absolutely agree with both knightbd and jaybaba bhai!
there is no other way one can can explain and make one understand this!
__________________
Khela-dhulai Haraa-haari maraa-maari often with Lathi o ghushi thakbei...
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old July 4, 2008, 05:50 AM
thebest thebest is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: February 21, 2005
Location: in the blue planet
Posts: 3,798

there is no chance of eid let alone ১৩ পার্বন. He was good puller and hooker of balls. Now a days Ash is either missing or mistiming playing hook or pull. Because JS changed his natural game and he is in two minds. Thus he is still getting out in the twenties but with much lesser strike rate
__________________
Twenty20 is not a gentleman's game. It's like a one-night stand and not a marriage. It is a street format and the goonda doesn't know what is a late cut or a cover drive

Last edited by thebest; July 4, 2008 at 05:56 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old July 4, 2008, 06:11 AM
nsd3 nsd3 is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: December 30, 2004
Location: Auckland to Sydney
Posts: 2,566

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebest
there is no chance of eid let alone ১৩ পার্বন. He was good puller and hooker of balls. Now a days Ash is either missing or mistiming playing hook or pull. Because JS changed his natural game and he is in two minds. Thus he is still getting out in the twenties but with much lesser strike rate
Your concerns are addressed in several posts by several members. If you are still singing the same song, I'd say let's wait till we find answers. Hope this helps.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old July 5, 2008, 10:35 PM
BANFAN's Avatar
BANFAN BANFAN is offline
Cricket Sage
 
Join Date: March 26, 2007
Favorite Player: Shak-Ash-Tam
Posts: 16,689

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebest
In today's PA there is an article on development of players specially freak players in SL setup. What caught my attention was how SL coaches were enhancing players quality without taking out the players natural strong point. They never tried to change the players natural style but fine tuned it to meet the demand of team. This write up increased my dislike of JS more as he is trying to make change of Ashfluke. For God's sake Ash is a stroke player not a grafter. He is trying to make a Boycot out of Jayasuriya. DW never tried to change the natural flair of Jaya, Kalu, Gurusinha, Arvinda. Just fine tuned it and put insurence player in the form of Ranatunga, Tilakratna. I understand DW failed to fine tuned Ash but what JS is trying is simply insane. Probably we are going to miss our customary eid once/twice in a year which means we are losing our match winner. Don't get me wrong, Ash might ended up with higher batting average but we would lose our midas touch - Ash score big; we win ODI.
That's what all the experts are saying.

Quote:
Hashta bochore ekta hoileo shonar dim dito, but we became greedy and we wanted more, so we changed his game. But he even forgot to lay once in a year .
The experts of our BC is so blind on JS, they are just expecting many things baselessly, against all conventional wisdom.
__________________
I'm with Shahbag for fair punishment of all war criminals. Im with Shahbag to stand for fair trials of all Corruption, all murders and social injustices occurred over last 40 years. I'm for a secular, corruption free & Just society in Bangladesh. Spirit of '71
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old July 6, 2008, 06:33 PM
Eshen's Avatar
Eshen Eshen is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: August 27, 2007
Posts: 7,981

The Jamie Siddons effect - creation of a fan base who are happy with gigantic loses.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old July 7, 2008, 11:37 PM
RazabQ's Avatar
RazabQ RazabQ is offline
Moderator
BC Editorial Team
 
Join Date: February 25, 2004
Location: Fremont CA
Posts: 10,132

http://www.banglacricket.com/alochon...&postcount=101

Shamelessly double dipping
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old July 7, 2008, 11:38 PM
RazabQ's Avatar
RazabQ RazabQ is offline
Moderator
BC Editorial Team
 
Join Date: February 25, 2004
Location: Fremont CA
Posts: 10,132

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
The Jamie Siddons effect - creation of a fan base who are happy with gigantic loses.
Gigantic losses, and our ability হজমify them is a new phenomenon how?
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old July 7, 2008, 11:47 PM
bujhee kom's Avatar
bujhee kom bujhee kom is offline
Cricket Sage
 
Join Date: June 27, 2007
Location: Dhaka Mental Hospital
Favorite Player: Mo Chow = Chow Mo
Posts: 21,486

yeah kool! i will start a band named "the jamie siddons effect" (copyright)!
live 2008/2009
__________________
Khela-dhulai Haraa-haari maraa-maari often with Lathi o ghushi thakbei...
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old September 15, 2008, 12:47 PM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: January 22, 2004
Posts: 21,739

With the interview published, time to bump this thread ....
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
BanglaCricket.com
 

About Us | Contact Us | Privacy Policy | Partner Sites | Useful Links | Banners |

© BanglaCricket