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  #26  
Old July 6, 2008, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BanCricFan
I do think Sid is a very poor communicator though which raise some doubts in my mind..
Can't be arsed weighing into the discussion about Siddons' merits as a coach but it ought to be mentioned that in an early interview Siddons actually specifically pinpointed his communication skills as his principle strength as a coach.
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  #27  
Old July 6, 2008, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aritro
Can't be arsed weighing into the discussion about Siddons' merits as a coach but it ought to be mentioned that in an early interview Siddons actually specifically pinpointed his communication skills as his principle strength as a coach.
I'll beg to differ with him on that one. Certainly after what he said about Rafique and dearth of talents in BD and all that stuff. To be honest, sometimes I think he lacks in intelligence. Hope I'm utterly wrong for all concerned..
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  #28  
Old July 6, 2008, 10:31 AM
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Ar kautokal bhashbo ami
Dukher shari gaiya ?
Amar jaunom gyalo ghate-ghate
Bhanga tori baiya-re Maola
Bhanga tori baiya.
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  #29  
Old July 6, 2008, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Sohel NR
Ar kautokal bhashbo ami
Dukher shari gaiya ?
Amar jaunom gyalo ghate-ghate
Bhanga tori baiya-re Maola
Bhanga tori baiya.
Sobor-e meya phol!
Sobor-e meya phol!

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  #30  
Old July 6, 2008, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BanCricFan
I'll beg to differ with him on that one. Certainly after what he said about Rafique and dearth of talents in BD and all that stuff. To be honest, sometimes I think he lacks in intelligence. Hope I'm utterly wrong for all concerned..
He isn't particularly impressive at press conferences, I agree. He might be a more effective communicator in personal interactions.
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  #31  
Old July 6, 2008, 12:59 PM
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I think BDChamp is 100% right here. Sorry to see the well known BC gurus r just following some stats and just crying for DAV. We took some shortcuts and players from U19 to show his big wins. If ash is let to play his flashy strokes and also aftab we could win another 2/3 matches but in the long run they will not serve bd and themselves will be in 20s avg and these gurus will then come up with stats saying they r good for nothing.

This coach is not taking any shortcuts and thats why we r again in dark ages. those who can see that please watch some BD games Past and present. And those who doesn't want to see that then I have no solution for you.
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  #32  
Old July 6, 2008, 01:15 PM
Dhruvo Dhruvo is offline
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I say we wait until the end of the year, yes our bowling and fielding has gone down no doubt about that and batting did go down statistically but to be honest I did see some improvement on the batting in a technical way, Siddons I think is basically first targeting our batting, he is trying to make us score 240+ consistently then develop our bowling and fielding only then we will become a force to reckon with,you cant just improve everything at once.Agree 100% by bdchamp bhaiya.
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  #33  
Old July 6, 2008, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akabir77
I think BDChamp is 100% right here. Sorry to see the well known BC gurus r just following some stats and just crying for DAV. We took some shortcuts and players from U19 to show his big wins. If ash is let to play his flashy strokes and also aftab we could win another 2/3 matches but in the long run they will not serve bd and themselves will be in 20s avg and these gurus will then come up with stats saying they r good for nothing.

This coach is not taking any shortcuts and thats why we r again in dark ages. those who can see that please watch some BD games Past and present. And those who doesn't want to see that then I have no solution for you.
Please try to read the posts a bit more carefully !! Nobody is crying for Dav here. What we want is the success and that's why Dav Whatmore's name is mentioned here.
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Last edited by Miraz; July 6, 2008 at 01:50 PM..
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  #34  
Old July 6, 2008, 01:37 PM
Tehsin Tehsin is offline
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On JS Communication Skills - When you're looking for a job, study shows that even in the USA, a majority of folks pads up their resume a bit to get the edge. No surprise that JS boasted about his skills unabashedly. Big difference that I see between him and Dav:
- Experience: No point going deeper into this one.
- Experience with South Asian culture: Dav is a politician. His vast experience dealing with South Asians taught him how to reach out to the media, fans, and players. Granted, he wasn't great, but he knew the limits.
- Attitude towards our Cricket: JS shows a patronizing attitude towards our cricket. JS seems to have this superiority complex while dealing with anything BD. He believes in his heart that BD cricket is at it's inphancy and all our success was solely based on luck. In other words, he does not show ANY respect to our cricket and his predecessor (Dav did make some changes - specially in our attitude) and wants to mold us into his idea of what a cricket team should be. Hence, when we suck, he knows for a fact that we sucked because that's all we can manage, not because he has stripped the dignity of our players while focusing on a few of the stronger prospects.

If BCB had any cahones (or care), they would sit him down, and challenge his view. I believe that JS could possibly turn us around if he looked at this differently. I forgot what the theory is called but it goes like this - ATTITUDE and self belief can make a huge difference between a low and high performing team. With the proper guidence, a team of mediocre performers could bring in outstanding results while a team of naturally gifted performers could fail to live up to their potential. If JS is willing to change his view of our cricket and approaches his charges as if he has some hidden jems in his hand, he could get more out of this young kids. He needs to change his tone and show some tough love to this guy. A 20-30-40 IS IN NO WAY an improved performance. It was good back in the day when we were a associate nation and our goal was to cross 100 against a proper team. We are in the Big league now and he needs to give this guys a boost of confidence and have a little more faith in them.

When taking over a new team, you need to assess their strenghts and weaknesses. You have to review the Did Wells and Next Times and continue the Did Wells while focusing on overcoming the challenges (Next Times). JS messed up by throwing everything out the door and starting fresh. That is one way of doing things but obviously, in this case, that was the WRONG way. I think it's time he does some soul searching and re-assess his approach. unfortunately, since BCB may not have the same idea as us fans, JS may have to do all this on his own. Let' just hope he smartens up.
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  #35  
Old July 6, 2008, 02:01 PM
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Eshkilent post from Tehsin ...

Sadly, the cojones in question have been khasified, pickled and shipped to China.
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  #36  
Old July 6, 2008, 02:14 PM
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Former Bangladesh Captain Habibul Basher thinks that BD now a days plays for win. He is also quite pleased with Bangladesh's performance in the Asia Cup.

PA Stadium Column
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  #37  
Old July 6, 2008, 02:16 PM
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Great Post Tehsin Bhai. Thanks.
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  #38  
Old July 6, 2008, 02:19 PM
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Bashar is desperate to get his place back in the team.

Trying to please his new Boss.
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  #39  
Old July 6, 2008, 02:20 PM
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If you guys are angry over the sri Lanka loss then I can tell you that we posted one run more than India did today. Now the difference between India and us is quite a lot but in the finals where teams are supposed to try their best India got 173 all out in 39.3 overs whereas in our must win game we had 174 in 38.3 overs which was very similar. Just to show that pressure can kill teams.
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  #40  
Old July 6, 2008, 02:21 PM
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Can someone translate in English please what Bashar said briefly?
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  #41  
Old July 6, 2008, 02:23 PM
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Miraz bhia i always try read all the post before posting but may be what i was trying to say didn't came out right.

I agree JS has short coming and think Mciness was better choice for us then him but while saying this compareing his stats with davs will not work cause if you watch the game you will feel what he is trying to do. Yeah we are not there yet and may be far from it but to me its the right direction. If we had started this way(which was also That SA coaches way) we would have become a strong team by now. To me dav took some short cuts and we could have done the same thing to get 4/5 wins but in test we would be in the same place. I think JS is trying to fix our batting from the bottom. And while trying to do so if we lose 100 match and then become compitetive in TEST i will take that anyday. cause these ODI means nothing to me just like the 20/20 doesn't to many.
o fix our culture he is trying it from the top (NTL) which is not the right way but we don't have supporting stuff to do it in jr level and in domestic level...

Yesh i agree JS com with media is very bad he need to learn that aspect.

There r some coaches who gets the most out by inspiration but that will not last long, if the problem is in the bottom.

It doesn't matter what ash or coach says to the media when they go out to play they try their best to win a match and to do so they have a plan. before they would try to win matches from over one. now they say we need to be here till ov 15 then 25 then etc etc and thats why they have many backup plans. its just that our players r not good enough yet... Look at SL their 2nd string bowlers r crap. but they have 2/3 match winner bowlers who take the pressure out from the others we have no one...
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  #42  
Old July 6, 2008, 04:38 PM
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To be honest I like Siddons. Sure he makes mistakes but its way better than some fluky wins under Whatmore. No doubt Whatmore has done well with Bangladesh. Sure we had great success during the world cup buts its true face was unmasked when the Irish smoked us in super 8 game. We are on a loosing track, which sucks for us fans but I am sure that it will be for greater good of Bangladesh. With all that being said, wats up with BCB and JS not bringing back Syed Rasel?
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  #43  
Old July 6, 2008, 04:41 PM
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Syed Rasel hasnt exactly set the world alight in his comeback games against Ireland A
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  #44  
Old July 6, 2008, 05:01 PM
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I like Jamie siddons approach aswell. I think he is doing the dirtiest job of all. Cleaning up the mess and building up. In the process its stinks, but once it's done there will be sweet smell. The smell of Victory!
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  #45  
Old July 6, 2008, 06:11 PM
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I am inclined to believe Tamim and Shakib have been benefited from Siddons' presence, but Aftab and Ashraful both have definitely declined under him, while Shahriar has stayed as his old self. As a batting coach, Siddons needs to figure out soon how to deal with those three older players.
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  #46  
Old July 6, 2008, 06:13 PM
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Whatmore deserves credits for the successes we've achieved under him. I greatly respect Whatmore for his contribution, but the fact is, he managed to elevate our status in cricket with his 'temporary treatment'. Hence, we transformed into a dangerous side only 'on our days', but the bigger margin of defeats still continued.

With Whatmore's exit, all hell broke loose. It became all the more apparent that the factor which drove the players towards success was the 'unique motivation' our boys received from Whatmore, which in turn helped to instill that self-belief within themselves. With 'that motivation' now missing due to Whatmore's absence, consequently the self-belief also seemed to vanish, not because our players lacked the 'spirit', but due to unsatisfactory outcomes as they never really learnt the art of playing the 'right way in different situations' under him. By default, our batting was 'full throttle', which bought about notable successes but at the same time were the reasons for our downfall on several occassions as well. This really leads to the question that if we actually improved , then why our batting failed so miserably after he left. Surely, we don't want a coach who will bring us 'better results' only when he's around.

Since Siddons took over, there has been a drought of victories but that doesn't reveal the true story. 'Delivery of performance' at the international stage is what really counts and after his arrival, we are seeing more significant improvements in individual players' batting in the international scene. These suggests that the focus of Siddons is more on solving the 'root of our problems' rather than solely trying to please the public. Yes, they won't occur overnight and such transitions do bring in uglier results. But the situation is only 'seeming' bleak, because Siddons,unlike Whatmore, is working on the permanent obliteration of that enigmatical batting long associated with Bangladesh cricket.

During Whatmore's era, his 'charisma' acted as the source of exuberance in our boys, which overshadowed our batting woes, and the whole process got converted into a chain-type scenario. Therefore, as Whatmore left, the chain stopped functioning, our success halted, and the batting diseases reappeared more clearly.
Now what Siddons is doing is trying to develop the 'right habbits' within our batsmen, so that those habbits of 'correct batting' will lead us in doing better batting displays more often. It has become evident that he wants our batsmen to prosper from the 'acquired batting habbits', rather than relying on 'external sources' not in their control, so that they posses the confidence due to faith in their 'gained batting knowledge' and not being dependant on someone else for self-belief in future.

A bit of fortune is just needed for all our departments to 'click' together, and a win is 'in the air', but of late, none of them are occuring simultaneously, as rightly pointed out by Sakib after the Pak tour. Whatsoever, its still going to be an arduous path ahead, as 'permanent treatment' takes time, and InshaAllah our victories in future will no longer be labelled as 'upsets'.

Before finishing, I want to make it very cleat that I am not an anti-Whatmore, nor the right hand of Siddons as my above post might ''sound''. I just attempted to express the facts the way I view it, and my intentions weren't to offence anyone in this thread. Thanks.
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  #47  
Old July 6, 2008, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
I am inclined to believe Tamim and Shakib have been benefited from Siddons' presence, but Aftab and Ashraful both have definitely declined under him, while Shahriar has stayed as his old self. As a batting coach, Siddons needs to figure out soon how to deal with those three older players.
the technically correct tamim however, became that way from the NZ series...which means that siddons couldn't have impacted him. raqibul hasan has also spent most of his time away from JS till recently. hence i think only sakib can be considered a JS success.

the main problem is mental aspect. the players do not believe in anything right now, and JS is the major culprit.
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  #48  
Old July 6, 2008, 06:22 PM
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I will take 5-6 fluky wins in 25-30 matches against top 8 teams over 25-30 right approach defeats any day.
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  #49  
Old July 6, 2008, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miraz
I will take 5-6 fluky wins in 25-30 matches against top 8 teams over 25-30 right approach defeats any day.
Miraz bhaiyya, I guess you got it wrong. Its not about 25-30 right approach defeats. Its about getting 5-6 'clinical wins' in 25-30 matches against top 8 teams. And yes, before we reach that phase of our cricket, we probably have to pass through those 25-30 defeats.
Hope I've cleared the misconception.
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  #50  
Old July 6, 2008, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by israr
Miraz bhaiyya, I guess you got it wrong. Its not about 25-30 right approach defeats. Its about getting 5-6 'clinical wins' in 25-30 matches against top 8 teams. And yes, before we reach that phase of our cricket, we probably have to pass through those 25-30 defeats.
Hope I've cleared the misconception.
If you have watched Bangladesh's wins over top 8 nations, you have to agree that all those wins were clinical wins, none were fluky. We were clearly better team on the field.

Now people are happy to call those wins as fluky. We really have short memories.

It's simply not possible to win against top 8 nations without playing good cricket.
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