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  #1  
Old July 15, 2008, 10:13 PM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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Default a dearth of Test spinners

we've been out of test cricket for a while, but according to my calculation we have 6 tests in the next half year (2 in RSA, 2 against NZ, and 2 against SL). perhaps we can push the lankans for a return 3 match series.

our next test will also mark the beginning of the post-rafique era. rafique has been our only world class spinner to date. his experience will be missed just as much as his 100 wickets. we need to find a spinner to replace him, ASAP.

right now, we have a very one man attack with shahadat leading the pack. and i doubt he continue to pick up wickets every 45 balls. hopefully we can get the old mashrafee back, but even then, we need 3 bowlers at least who can threaten to take wickets.

razzak does not impress me as a longer version bowler, and i don't know what this mosharraf hossain can bring. it seems the only guy we can throw in is enamul haque, even though he hasn't shown anything in a long while.

produce some spinners who can turn the ball, as well as add some variation to our all-SLA attack are of prime importance.
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  #2  
Old July 15, 2008, 10:28 PM
Aritro Aritro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
we've been out of test cricket for a while, but according to my calculation we have 6 tests in the next half year (2 in RSA, 2 against NZ, and 2 against SL). perhaps we can push the lankans for a return 3 match series.

our next test will also mark the beginning of the post-rafique era. rafique has been our only world class spinner to date. his experience will be missed just as much as his 100 wickets. we need to find a spinner to replace him, ASAP.

right now, we have a very one man attack with shahadat leading the pack. and i doubt he continue to pick up wickets every 45 balls. hopefully we can get the old mashrafee back but even then, we need 3 bowlers at least who can threaten to take wickets.

razzak does not impress me as a longer version bowler, and i don't know what this mosharraf hossain can bring. it seems the only guy we can throw in is enamul haque, even though he hasn't shown anything in a long while.

produce some spinners who can turn the ball, as well as add some variation to our all-SLA attack are of prime importance.
This is the old Mashrafe to be honest. The Mashrafe we all idealise in our minds has in actual fact only ever turned up to play during a fraction of his matches against top 8 opposition during the last couple of years.

We need to resign ourselves to the fact that due to his run of injuries, the version of Mashrafe that bowls 135kph+ with bounce and movement will only be seen on very rare days and if he's seen any more often than that, I suspect he will find himself limping off to the treatment room.

There is a second, less explosive but reasonably effective version of Mashrafe who bowls teasing outswingers on an off-stump line at 130-132k, and this is the one we should hope to see more regularly.

But the version of Mashrafe that's turned up to play during 75% of his matches in the last two years is the one that we're familiar with at the moment. This version ambles in lacksadaisically during his run up and delivers the ball at anywhere between 125-133kph. He produces a small amount of outswing, or none at all and usually lands it half a yard too short and often too far outside the off-stump to induce the batsman to play a shot. He also regularly sprays it down the leg side when bowling to left handers and his deliveries lack penetration and hit the keepers gloves without any conviction.

I'm starting to think that this is the real Mashrafe, and the other two are the ones we see when he's playing above himself. He is Bangladesh's second best test fast bowler by a mile and if he doesn't start to resemble versions 1 and 2 more regularly, he'll eventually find himself playing as the third seamer when Rubel Hossain emerges as a test player in a couple of years.

That said, I'd love to see someone bump this post in six months after he's taken a swag of wickets in our next six matches to show how I wrong I've been.

Last edited by Aritro; July 15, 2008 at 10:36 PM..
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  #3  
Old July 15, 2008, 11:04 PM
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Mashrafee is not the same player because he doesn't get the same treatment like he used to in DW era.
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  #4  
Old July 15, 2008, 11:30 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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there are some decent pace prospects e.g. rubel, sajidul, subashis, of course we all know how most really good talents turnout so it's tough to really see where things will be even in just a couple of years. spinner wise atm it might be better to focus on allrounders than specialists. there are a bunch of young spinning allrounders e.g. nasir hossain, shuvo, shakib, kapali, riyad, mehrab, marshall ayub. there seems to be more talent in the spinning allrounder department than the specialist spinner department so maybe they should arrange the spin attack around allrounders. i mean are the specialsit spinners going to be much ebtter than these guys?

i mean really what specialist spinners are there atm? razzak, enamul and MH. so far razzak doesn't look like he'll make a decent test spinner, enamul isn't really getting many chances (though it's probably partly due to his own decisions as well) and MH well i guess he is worth looking at, he has a decent FC bowling record, takes 3.8 wickets per FC match, strike rate of 65 which is decent for a spinner, good economy rate, good average and he's reasonably mature (will be 27 at the end of the year) so he should hopefully understand his art a bit more than someone younger.
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  #5  
Old July 16, 2008, 12:23 AM
BD-Shardul BD-Shardul is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aritro
This is the old Mashrafe to be honest. The Mashrafe we all idealise in our minds has in actual fact only ever turned up to play during a fraction of his matches against top 8 opposition during the last couple of years.

We need to resign ourselves to the fact that due to his run of injuries, the version of Mashrafe that bowls 135kph+ with bounce and movement will only be seen on very rare days and if he's seen any more often than that, I suspect he will find himself limping off to the treatment room.

There is a second, less explosive but reasonably effective version of Mashrafe who bowls teasing outswingers on an off-stump line at 130-132k, and this is the one we should hope to see more regularly.

But the version of Mashrafe that's turned up to play during 75% of his matches in the last two years is the one that we're familiar with at the moment. This version ambles in lacksadaisically during his run up and delivers the ball at anywhere between 125-133kph. He produces a small amount of outswing, or none at all and usually lands it half a yard too short and often too far outside the off-stump to induce the batsman to play a shot. He also regularly sprays it down the leg side when bowling to left handers and his deliveries lack penetration and hit the keepers gloves without any conviction.

I'm starting to think that this is the real Mashrafe, and the other two are the ones we see when he's playing above himself. He is Bangladesh's second best test fast bowler by a mile and if he doesn't start to resemble versions 1 and 2 more regularly, he'll eventually find himself playing as the third seamer when Rubel Hossain emerges as a test player in a couple of years.

That said, I'd love to see someone bump this post in six months after he's taken a swag of wickets in our next six matches to show how I wrong I've been.

Mash still can bowl around 85 mph if he wants. in out last WC match, the delivery from Mashrafe that bowled Gayle clocked 85.1 mph.

Even normally, Mashrafe bowls around 77-82 mph range. If you look at Shahadat's speed, you will find that he is behind mamu. In test, Shahadat normaly bowls around 77-79 mph range.
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  #6  
Old July 16, 2008, 01:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BD-Shardul
Mash still can bowl around 85 mph if he wants. in out last WC match, the delivery from Mashrafe that bowled Gayle clocked 85.1 mph.

Even normally, Mashrafe bowls around 77-82 mph range. If you look at Shahadat's speed, you will find that he is behind mamu. In test, Shahadat normaly bowls around 77-79 mph range.
I would say just see the match against India in WC where his one delivery was 90 mph and he bowled consistently around 87-89 mph in that whole match. I think his average in the whole WC would be somewhere around 85 mph and it was not very long back. I think he his missing the individual care that he used to get in DW's era. I will agree with you in Shahadat's case although we know him as the fastest bowler in BD cricket but in tests he usually bowls around 80-82 mph which is not that bad if he can maintain his line.
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  #7  
Old July 16, 2008, 02:44 AM
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ahm.. Spinners we were to talk about and right now A. Razzak is not showing as good as ODI but he is the lone choice for the next 6 months. Rubel is nothing. Shouvo can be picked and giving him enough 'ghosha maza' before match for na'tl side.
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  #8  
Old July 16, 2008, 03:29 AM
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Just use Kapali and Sakib as spinning all-rounders..no point in picking spinners that aren't ready for international cricket....unless one of the spinners performs exceptionally for the A team in any upcoming 4-day matches. Might as well have an extra batsman with 3 genuine pacers.Pacers Being Mash , Shahadat and Reza(?).
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  #9  
Old July 16, 2008, 03:55 AM
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I have reservations about razzak as a test bowler. Shakib may develop into a much better tests bowler. the only other option (as already mentioned by al-furqaan) has to be enamul haque. I'm not sure alok will can take out quality batsmen with his legbreaks, but perhaps I'm being unfiar and he is actually a better test spinner than a one day one?

As for spinners of the future, I think mosharraf is way out of his depth. i suspect rafique only tipped him to make the point that the selectors/coaches have been wrong all along in picking his rivals (enamul haque, razzak etc) and that it is in fact he who has spotted the true star.

Suhrawardy looks good for the future, mehrab hossain jnr I suspect is more a batsman than a spinner. Whatever happened to the young leggie, marshall ayub?

As for the fast bowling, I think nazmul hossain deserves another look, and not just because of the 5-for he took against warwickshire for Bangladesh A. He's a genuine seam bowler and is more experienced than sajidul or dollar. He deserves a good run in the side. Obviously rasel too deserves to be looked at.
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Old July 16, 2008, 04:22 AM
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we desparately need a leggie. dont know much about ayub, how is he?
If Alok's form continue it will be a added bonous for us.
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  #11  
Old July 16, 2008, 04:42 AM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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robin looks to be a decent pace prospect as well, as for leg spinners, who is there? there's alok and ayub but they're allrounders, not really sure about who else there is in that department.
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  #12  
Old July 16, 2008, 06:55 AM
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I just can't understand why BD have failed to produce a quality leggie. not a warne I might add but a kaneria, chawla or afridi would be nice. We have so many finger spinners, it beggars belief thatb we can't produce a leggie.

After all leg breaks are stil a form of slow bowling so it should suit even the laziest of bowlers!
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  #13  
Old July 16, 2008, 08:28 AM
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we have dearth of spinless spinners and toothless slow medium spin pacers both in current and in pipeline...can't imagine in pipeline Nazmul is leading! and Reza opens the bowling and Raz is number one spinner who rarely spins! Only happens in BD.
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  #14  
Old July 16, 2008, 01:29 PM
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There were a few promising guys. We have so far failed to guide them properly & mishandled. They don't grow automatically in BD play grounds. yet to be that fertile !!!
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Old July 16, 2008, 01:56 PM
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we dont have big turners, that's true
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  #16  
Old July 16, 2008, 02:28 PM
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THe last thing I remember Mash doing in test match is:

"I need to learn reverse swing from Malinga."
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  #17  
Old July 16, 2008, 07:50 PM
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Matin Needs to practice his legspin again, He got massive turn (I retrospect to BD crickets) in NZ and is the biggest turner in the country, He used a Flipper to get his 1st Wicket and the 2nd wicket turned all the way to 1st Slip, He bowls to many loose balls tho, if he cleans that up you have a real quality test leggie
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  #18  
Old July 16, 2008, 10:08 PM
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I think we need to do some serious thinking about our 'spin future' and I don't just mean short term. With our typical physical features, unsporting dietary habits and pitch conditions theoretically we are better placed to produce quality spinners than pacers. I say we cough up a good amount from that Nimbus deal to get Shane Warne to come for a week at least and conduct a few training sessions for under-10/12/13 kids. I am not saying we'll necessarily get a lot out of it straightaway( ie. one or two future intl class leg spinners) but I think Warne's presence can create that exciting buzz about leg spin for the future geneation, which is something we desperately need to get out of this deadly 'sla' virus.
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Old July 16, 2008, 10:59 PM
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We had one semi semi semi semi decent leggie in Mosaddek Hossain (Rubel) once upon a time. Fine-tuning guys like Ashraful and Kapali will probably not give us exactly what we're looking for; besides, they already have batting as their primary responsibility.

Perhaps it's time for us to cross our fingers and await the birth of a freak of nature.
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Old July 16, 2008, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
robin looks to be a decent pace prospect as well, as for leg spinners, who is there? there's alok and ayub but they're allrounders, not really sure about who else there is in that department.

i dont think marshall is ever considered as future spinner for BD team. he is a good batsman, thats it. he doesnt even bowl for local team. I think u are mixing up him with shuvo/mehrab jr
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  #21  
Old July 17, 2008, 04:17 AM
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Very timely thread indeed...as we do not really have a test spinner right now.

We are in need of a quality test spinner. otherwise we are gonna suffer a lot in test matches played in BD. In BD, without quality test spinner, its impossible to do well in tests.

At the moment from our present resources (Razzaq, Enamul, Rubel), we have no option to play Razzaq in tests. After considering all the pluses and minuses of these three, Razzaq is the choice for me at the moment.
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Old July 17, 2008, 05:40 AM
BD-Shardul BD-Shardul is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS
we have dearth of spinless spinners and toothless slow medium spin pacers both in current and in pipeline...can't imagine in pipeline Nazmul is leading! and Reza opens the bowling and Raz is number one spinner who rarely spins! Only happens in BD.
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  #23  
Old July 17, 2008, 02:35 PM
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Ash can turn that's true. But its real tuff to control with the grip, that's my personal experience n fiend who used to spin agree with this. That make me thinking how great Shane was!
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  #24  
Old July 17, 2008, 02:58 PM
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A spinner's success in test cricket depends a lot on how his captain sets up the field for him. Unfortunately, in Bangladesh we don't have aggressive captains (in international or in domestic teams), so most of our spinners are just used to bowl defensively.

Our genuine test prospect is Enamul, but I am afraid our Sylhet captain Rajin and former Bangladesh captain Bashar have damaged his career badly with their defensive mindsets. Also, Enamul is kind of character who needs lots of assurance from his fellow cricketers and the coach. Unfortunately, in current Bangladesh team setup, there is none to provide him assurance.

Our other prospect is Mosharraf who has performed shoulder to shoulder with Enamul last year in Academy and A-team matches. He had shown a rich run of form in last domestic season. Mosharraf is an older and more mature player, so he will probably do better to survive morale breaking defeats that Bangladesh test team usually suffers.
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Old July 17, 2008, 03:02 PM
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Kothay bole: mache bhaate bangali.

Eshen bhai er kotha shune, mone hoche maach gula jodi "African cichlid" hoito, taile amader captain gula ektu aggressive hoito
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