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  #1  
Old October 10, 2008, 11:57 AM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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Default Who is Traitor and who is not?

The boards (CA, BCCI, BCB etc) wants us to think playing for them in the in national team is the only way to show a person's patriotism and playing other places (not approved by them) is by default unpatriotic and becomes traitors. And we fans fall to that trap.

Have it ever occurred to you how patriotic those board members are? How much they still believe in sportsmanship and fairness of the game of cricket? Or how much they really care about the players and the fans who are bread and butter of cricket? And who gave them the authority to be the sole dealership to announce who is patriot and who is traitor?

When I see what’s going on with these boards, I see nothing but a bunch of thugs and greedy people hijacking these boards to the point that every decision they make is based on money, its based on power consolidation and based on monopolizing the game, its based on greed. By doing so they are ignoring the sportsmanship aspect of the game, the fan’s need aspect of it, the responsibility to take action that the game is publicized and popularized ….. specially they are ignoring these aspects when it collides with their short term financial interest.

That’s why now a days we see more restriction while telecasting national games, it may not be available to common people; every aspect of cricket is commercialized to a point that its hard to tell if these boards here to make money or to promote the game of cricket and support its street-workers i.e. the players. That’s why we see clash with reporters and photographers (CA and BCCI), they are acting like thugs (BCCI for example) in different issues like the issue with ICL where they stole ideas from ICL and now trying to ban them.

I ask you one question. If these cricket boards really represents your country, then shouldn’t they act like one where they will make their decision purely based on principle, for the betterment of the game, promotion the game and fostering the fan base by make these game more available and affordable to every day people even that means it may not be the best financial deal in short term?

So I ask you all, wake up... and ask the real question... who is the real traitors here?
The players who defected?
Or the executives in BCB who are working as a BCCI agent and trying to safeguard BCCI agenda instead of taking care of their won players.. Whether its national player or defected players.
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Last edited by Fazal; October 10, 2008 at 01:58 PM..
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  #2  
Old October 10, 2008, 01:27 PM
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BANFAN BANFAN is offline
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The people sitting in BCB and not doing their job, stealing money & abusing power are the biggest traitors.

These guys are playing cricket and if they are taken in national team, they will definitely play. How they can be traitors I don't understand at all. Those who have resigned have done it under compulsion, as they aren't aloowed to play in ICL & National team.
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  #3  
Old October 10, 2008, 01:57 PM
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Fazal,
you are living too much in the land of Dubya. Either with us or against us - nothing in between. But life is not black and white. There are grey areas in most cases. There are three parties in each and every sport - the administrators, the players and match officials and fans. For success of the sport each of these actors have to perform its acts perfectly. You want Board should operate professionally. If you want professionals you need to pay them top money. To give them top money you need your fan are willing to pay you top money. Fan would only pay top money if players perform regulerly. To perform regulerly players need world class facilities beside the god given talent. Again administrator need the money to develop those facilities. So you see it is vicious circle. So what options the administrators have. The only feasible option without antagonizing the fans directly is to commercialize the sports. They are commercializing the sports. This happened not only in cricket but also in Football , Olympics (actually cricket is much less commercialize than the other popular sport). In ideal situation, I agree with you that game is publicized and popularized but ground reality is far from the ideal situation. AFAIK, with the exception of Scandinivan countries live football in Europe is in pay TV for the last 5 to 10 years. And only this year public owned TV did not show live cricket in the UK (I may be wrong please correct me). In India by court decesion, DD have the right to show all matches involving India palying in India. So all is not lost.
If my above argument make you think that I am implying BCB or for that matter board officials are angel then you are wrong. You correctly point out that most of them are their not to serve cricket but for money and glamour associated with it. They are abusing their position and in the name of patriotism even driving away the hard core cricket fan.
Fazal, you were one of the vetern of this board. I did not expect a cheap shot againest BCCI from you. We should our grievnece againest BCCI but on this issue (that is ICL) I would keep out BCCI. There are two reasons - number one you mentioned a board should make their decision purely based on principle, for the betterment of the game, promotion the game. For this we need our share from ICC. You and I like it or not, ICC is run by BCCI; unless you have big balance like ACB and ECB and team like Australia and England I would not antagonize BCCI. Look at NZ and Pakistan. NZ in fact sacrificed their best player and their board is more accountble to the stakeholders than us , I believe. Number two - our board is the richest sports administration of teh country not because cricket is popular than football but we are one of the top dog of the world. We are top dog, because we are a test playing country. All most all the money came to cricket after our elevation to test status. And do you honestly belive we were more deserving test status than Kenya? For political reason, BCCI backed us and suddenly lots of money in cricket and we have this discussion on ICL and exodous to ICL. Yes BCB fail to perform its duty; We still did not know what action BCB took after Ash and JS inform about ICL's approach to national cricketer; who assured Aftab that there would be only six months ban? Why senior players (Rafiq, HB, even Pilot) are so venomous againest the board? Why there are mismanagement before every series in Bangladesh? But are these make them traitor; They are incompetant; yes. They are greedy; yes but traitor I do not think so.
Now come to the players exodous. They are badly treated by the board, yes if you belive them. Lets give them benefit of doubt and belive their version and why some of us think that they are traitor. Lets see who is traitor. Dictionary defined traitor a person who is guilty of treason in betraying friends, country or cause. What they did bring bad PR for cricket of Bangladesh. There was talk of NZ pulling out of this tour. Even after the great victory yesterday NZ media was portaying that that got beaten by Bangladesh B. There exodous could even stop the flow of money if some of the crowd pullers refuse to visit the country due to weaking our team. Come on you and I know those fourteen are fringe player bar one or two; but most of the foreigner and foreign media do not know it. What piss me off that they constanly blame BCB not taking care of them; not ensuring them they are part of the national team. With the exception of Rafiq and HB all the others are product of BCB. BCB spends lots of money on them. BCB did take care of their development; ICL knows them because BCB invest on them. It is their responsibilty to confirm themselves as part of national team. Mash, Sakib, Raj does not need those assurance because they ensured themselves. I did not like their backstabbing. Why they want Ash's name go down with them. If their claim is true just submit those proof to BCB or other authority you have confidence. You don't malign your leader in front of foreign media. When Sk Hasina did those, almost all of us joined in the band wagon to malign him; but when the same thing SN and AK did we opened a thread Ash is culprit. Why this double standard by the fan.
BTW I did not like the BCB stunt on putting my beloved flag as jersy. That was simply a cheap shot. Neither did I like that players denial that they joined ICL for money
At the end, I would conclude both party is guilty. But board officials crimes are at Bush/ Chenny scale in terms of greed and abuse of power the ICL players crime is Quisling scale in terms of greed and betray.
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  #4  
Old October 10, 2008, 02:44 PM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thetest
Fazal,
you are living too much in the land of Dubya. Either with us or against us - nothing in between. But life is not black and white. There are grey areas in most cases. There are three parties in each and every sport - the administrators, the players and match officials and fans.
Well am I the one who belive in "Either with us or against us - nothing in between." or some line like you and some other fans for example who announced the revolted players as traitors? I know about the grey area very well, but do you? If so who come you are so reluctance to give these players the benifrit of doubt from the begining?
[quote=thetest]

Quote:
Originally Posted by thetest
For success of the sport each of these actors have to perform its acts perfectly. You want Board should operate professionally. If you want professionals you need to pay them top money. To give them top money you need your fan are willing to pay you top money. Fan would only pay top money if players perform regulerly. To perform regulerly players need world class facilities beside the god given talent. Again administrator need the money to develop those facilities. So you see it is vicious circle. So what options the administrators have.
Agaiun follow your own advice, and you will get the answer... i.e. there is that grey area between black and white. That means, ofcourse you need money, but for the power comes with responsibility i.e when the board has the sole authority to select and run the national team and all the cricket related activities, it also comes with the responsibility and that is to take care of the natioanl interest, the players in general (not only the national players, but all players), responsibility to the fans and the citizen and there where the broard's prime resonsibility lies... they need to make money to fullfill their responsibility, not the other way around. AQnd when they conflicts, making money should be comp[romized. Thats how I see the board should run ... and that shouldbe the difference between them and private leagues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thetest
The only feasible option without antagonizing the fans directly is to commercialize the sports. They are commercializing the sports. This happened not only in cricket but also in Football , Olympics (actually cricket is much less commercialize than the other popular sport). In ideal situation,
Have you heard conflict with news media with other major sports (where their national team plays) or in Olympics? Its happening in cricket. It happend in Australia and now in India. They started boycotting the game in stadium, onlyt then it resolved temprarily...these cricet boards
getting over greedy.... we are seing who BCCI are flexing their mussle based on marektability power... have you seen those in other sports where national team plays?
Thats where the problem lies with the cricket. Its not good for the game and its not good for the fans.... and it all comming from too much greedyness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thetest
Fazal, you were one of the vetern of this board. I did not expect a cheap shot againest BCCI from you. We should our grievnece againest BCCI but on this issue (that is ICL) I would keep out BCCI. There are two reasons - number one you mentioned a board should make their decision purely based on principle, for the betterment of the game, promotion the game.
I don't know where you see a cheep shot here. I simply stated the fact. I don't like BCCI's thug like mentality and I pointed it out. Not liking the executived of BCCI doesn't mean I dislike India or the people of India.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thetest
For this we need our share from ICC. You and I like it or not, ICC is run by BCCI; unless you have big balance like ACB and ECB and team like Australia and England I would not antagonize BCCI. Look at NZ and Pakistan. NZ in fact sacrificed their best player and their board is more accountble to the stakeholders than us , I believe. Number two - our board is the richest sports administration of teh country not because cricket is popular than football but we are one of the top dog of the world. We are top dog, because we are a test playing country. All most all the money came to cricket after our elevation to test status. And do you honestly belive we were more deserving test status than Kenya?
So absically you are saying because BCCI is so strong that BCB has no backbone to protect their own people's interest. ..i.e. interest of BD players, BD cricket and BD fans.
Why we should ban our own players for life if they play ICL? What national conflict do we have with ICL?

So basically they sold their sole to BCCI and actining againt our own interest. So basically if we need to find a Mirjafor, who is the real Mirjafor here? If I have to pick, I will pick BCB here for not standing up to our own interest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thetest

For political reason, BCCI backed us and suddenly lots of money in cricket and we have this discussion on ICL and exodous to ICL. Yes BCB fail to perform its duty; We still did not know what action BCB took after Ash and JS inform about ICL's approach to national cricketer; who assured Aftab that there would be only six months ban? Why senior players (Rafiq, HB, even Pilot) are so venomous againest the board? Why there are mismanagement before every series in Bangladesh? But are these make them traitor; They are incompetant; yes. They are greedy; yes but traitor I do not think so.
Money is needed, but too much money spoil the whole thing. That is happening here. Cricket survived without that much money before for years, so money is not going to solve all of the peoblems, sometimes too much money attracks wrong people for wrong reasons and in the process you loose loose yopur princple in the process.
I said it before and I am saying it again, if any one is a traitor in this whole process, its the BCB, who is the traitor for selling their sole to BCCI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thetest
Now come to the players exodous. They are badly treated by the board, yes if you belive them. Lets give them benefit of doubt and belive their version and why some of us think that they are traitor. Lets see who is traitor. Dictionary defined traitor a person who is guilty of treason in betraying friends, country or cause.
Again in my observation ist BCB who is guilty of treason in betraying friends, country or cause. We don't have a issue with ICL, BCB took a stand to please their master BCCI forgeting their responsibility to the nation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thetest
What they did bring bad PR for cricket of Bangladesh. There was talk of NZ pulling out of this tour. Even after the great victory yesterday NZ media was portaying that that got beaten by Bangladesh B.
You are tryiong to find a scape goat for our national player and BCB's failure. If anybopdy created a PR problem its mainly BCB who should be blamed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thetest
With the exception of Rafiq and HB all the others are product of BCB. BCB spends lots of money on them. BCB did take care of their development; ICL knows them because BCB invest on them. It is their responsibilty to confirm themselves as part of national team. Mash, Sakib, Raj does not need those assurance because they ensured themselves. I did not like their backstabbing. Why they want Ash's name go down with them. If their claim is true just submit those proof to BCB or other authority you have confidence. You don't malign your leader in front of foreign media. When Sk Hasina did those, almost all of us joined in the band wagon to malign him; but when the same thing SN and AK did we opened a thread Ash is culprit. Why this double standard by the fan.
It goes both way. They BCB spent money on these players, they also made money on this players... their onw salary and those pleasure trips comes sweat of these players. The player have the right to get immotional, the BCB is supposed to be even handed and impartial... life ban by BCB cannot be justified in my book regardless how wrong the players are.

And blaming BCB is not balming the country, its blaming more like baling your current employer rather than the instutution. I think rightly ro wrongly players should have the right to criticize the nboard, specaily when they are quiting from their job.
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  #5  
Old October 10, 2008, 03:01 PM
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No one's a traitor. Everyone's an idiot for talking when they shouldn't.
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Old October 10, 2008, 03:01 PM
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BANFAN BANFAN is offline
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Agreed Fazal, Nice & Logical post.

Don't like to repeat the points mentioned. But two of your points I liked most & must repeat:
1. "Either You are with us or against us" - Those who call them (ICL) traitors; are the perfect examples of that. Though thebest claims that he doesn't call them traitors.

2. "Money Spent For These Players": Surely they didn't spend a penny from their own pocket, they have earned it through the hard work of these players. So the players have all the rights to criticize BCB. BCB should be more answerable for the money they spend rathaer than to question individual players for the money they give. BCB is not their masters, just organizers on their behalf. BCB is carrying out BCCI policies, it's not ICC policy to ban ICL players.
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Old October 10, 2008, 03:36 PM
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Zeeshan Zeeshan is offline
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To rehash the famous quote by Samuel Johnson, "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."
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Old October 11, 2008, 08:00 AM
thebest thebest is offline
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Fazal Mamu,
Nice try. I tried to give them benefit of doubt till the jug head Ghose utter " I have done enough for my country". There was no spin , no lost in translation. I heard him uttering those in TV and in Bangla. I have not heard yet he apologies or some one on his behalf apologies. I still feel that you are in Dubya world blaming everything on administrators and BCCI; not a single word that these boys are guilty. My response was both party have to blame but major share should be the players. But at least we two agree that they chose different employer. If you choose different employer why you are worry whether you could partcipate in the event organize by your former employer. Do you think any organization would embrace their former employee who is working for other organization to their blue ribband project.
You and I both may dislike the mingling of BCCI in our matter. But the situation is that we need BCCI for our sake as much as BCCI need us. Talking about betrayal of friend, last time I checked ICL did not invest a single penny in local cricket; BCCI also not but indirectly they did so by supporting our status to be elevated in Test Status which Kenya failed because they do not have a friend like BCCI in 2000 (at the time any neutral would have said Kenya had a better squad than us). That means BCCI is more friend to us than ICL ever was. You talk about players bringing money to the game; this is true but I would call them Return of investment.
The other thing about commercialization and all others we came a long way from that ideal world where only talent would have won you.
BTW, on this issue we agree to disagree.
No hard feelings and thank you for reading my long post
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Old October 12, 2008, 01:12 PM
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Quoting one of my posts in another thread.
Quote:
I beg to differ here about professionalism. I am in fact getting sick hearing this word every now and then in regards of ICL.

Cricket is a game played by professionals; but it's played for the fans too. This instance of me in BC as WarWolf is not a professional; he is a fan who likes to cheer about cricket, his country, his country men and his favorite team Bangladesh. The players are getting money because we make them stars. Without us, they are nothing. So they must respect the fans' perspectives.

Cricket is unlike most other games in the sense this game is mainly played as national teams not as international leagues. We all love our country and like to cheer about it. So any move by any player in BD which I may feel would harm the cricket of our country would hurt me and is an offense to me. I really cannot be so much open minded to forgive these kinda moves. If you guys think that it's not right, I cannot do any thing about it. Cause that's me.

I am against the current board and at the same time I am against this ICL morons. The reason is simple ; they are hurting our cricket.
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Last edited by WarWolf; October 12, 2008 at 01:21 PM..
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  #10  
Old October 13, 2008, 09:38 AM
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BANFAN BANFAN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarWolf
I am against the current board and at the same time I am against this ICL morons. The reason is simple ; they are hurting our cricket.
I don't think they are hurting our cricket, pretty much the opposite IMO.

A country can sustain 15 such players half of whom have got a chance and either retired or are proven to be useless, you are undermining our tallent pool. Only 1/2 promising players might have been there, but we may be wrong as well calling them promising, since they aren't proven at that level. We havn't lost any superstar.

Positive is that, 15 more players are getting some international exposure and believe it or not, this ICL thing will end or be recognized in a couple of years. Even if it is not solved, knowledge/skill/tricks will come through them to the BD next generation for sure. So no worries

Some might say, "BD has got a new basket for the rotten Mangoes to not to polute the better one's keeing in same basket."

I don't see ICL hurting us from any angle.
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Last edited by BANFAN; October 24, 2008 at 06:07 AM..
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Old October 14, 2008, 04:13 PM
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Brother BF, temptation brings temptation. The ICL rebellers has shown the way which was followed by Rubel Hossain also. They failed to understand that they brought themselves at the end of their carrier probably. If the ban with ICL is not lifted in near future then these players will not find a place to play regularly. With only few T20 matches in the ICL they will forget to play cricket.

BD team is not hurt that badly with their exclusion as some of us guessed initially. But the condition could be much worse. Running behind these temptations can never be good for cricket and it hurts cricket for sure.
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Old October 14, 2008, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarWolf
If the ban with ICL is not lifted in near future then these players will not find a place to play regularly. With only few T20 matches in the ICL they will forget to play cricket.
There is nothing called absolute my friend, and that includes the life term ban. I say give one year or two year at most, and you will see these same players are playing in the local league... and who knows some of them may even join the national team....

just wait and see, some of these players (younger one) will out last the current selectors and executives as well as the coach..... just mark my word.... their ban will be lifted.....some of them will be rehabilated to bangladesh cricket league....after all we are talking about Bangladesh here where we are known as hujugey bangalee and the people are immotional and polarized in one end and forgiving in other end.
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Old October 15, 2008, 07:25 AM
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I am with Mamu and BANFAN on this issue. Very well put. We should focus on where the real problem is.
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