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  #1  
Old October 21, 2008, 04:11 AM
Russell2k7 Russell2k7 is offline
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Default Captain vs Captain

Ashrafool scored 2 runs averaging 1 runs.
Vettori scored 131 while averaging 131 and took 9 wickets averaging 14.8.

What a pathetic of a player this Ashrafool is. 10 years and this guy is still the same ol fool. If he had batted sensibly and scored around 60 runs in two innings then we would have a much better chance of winning the test match. Shame on him.
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  #2  
Old October 21, 2008, 04:48 AM
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Nahh Ashraful ain't so bad...and he hasn't been playing professionally for 10 years.

Anyway, Ashraful's a good kid. I still like him. =]

Watch him next test match...
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  #3  
Old October 21, 2008, 05:12 AM
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tiger_club tiger_club is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cricket_king
Nahh Ashraful ain't so bad...and he hasn't been playing professionally for 10 years.

Anyway, Ashraful's a good kid. I still like him. =]

Watch him next test match...
Yup, he did nothing wrong.. we always get excited when he is on the crease. It was his bad luck that he couldn't contribute much for the team but overall he did good job as captain. I was so positive we'll win this time.. we went so close yet so far.. better luck next time.. I think this game possibly the best test match of the year.. it doesn't matter who won at the end it is the pride we take for making them earn it. Well done tigers!!
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  #4  
Old October 21, 2008, 05:19 AM
cric crazy cric crazy is offline
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Nothing gives me more pleasure than to watch Ashraful batting in the middle when he is on song, but sadly, that is a very rare occurrence.

This guy is a burden and liability and should be stripped off his captaincy so that the only way of keeping his place in the final 11 is by simply performing.
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  #5  
Old October 21, 2008, 05:34 AM
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yaseer yaseer is offline
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Ya, it was a bad match for Ashraful. Most pathetic was the way he got out in the 2nd innings when team needed him most. We fans also expect a lot every time he is on the cease. Why not? as we all know Bangladesh wins when Ashraful is at his best.

Ashraful has been good as a captain. His on-field decision making has been impressive in the series so far.

He has to learn to play with some more responsibility and as he is captain now, he has to remember that he has to set the example like Vettori did.

Reluxe guyz, we have had a wonderful test match. Looking forward to the Dhaka test as Ashraful is due for a big one. (Again as a typical fan )
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  #6  
Old October 21, 2008, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cric crazy
Nothing gives me more pleasure than to watch Ashraful batting in the middle when he is on song, but sadly, that is a very rare occurrence.

This guy is a burden and liability and should be stripped off his captaincy so that the only way of keeping his place in the final 11 is by simply performing.
Thats the problem, if he is not captain he won't play for BD.. ICL still a option for him.. You don't want to loose another good player do you?
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  #7  
Old October 21, 2008, 06:03 AM
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ক্যাপ্টেন উইনস দি ম্যাচ ফর নিউজিল্যান্ড
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  #8  
Old October 21, 2008, 08:37 AM
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we are really unlucky nation,player like ashraful keep on failing but keep playing in the team.there is no replacement.vettori had more test average than any of our batsman.that speaks out all.just imagine with this performance ashraful will not get B or C of other test team
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  #9  
Old October 21, 2008, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cricket_king
...Watch him next test match...
lol, ar koto kal eita niya thakben? Let him watch the next match from his living room. And if you want to see him perform then watch Mohamadan play. You will find him warming the bench there. What Mohamadan officials could do the national selectors can't. Bunch of sissy's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger_club
Yup, he did nothing wrong..
What?? Okay, I understand you didn't watch the match, at least you saw the score card, right? If not then here it is http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/bdes...ch/361758.html
Check out as a second down batsman how much he scored. Once you see it come back here and tell me if he did any thing right while batting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger_club
Thats the problem, if he is not captain he won't play for BD.. ICL still a option for him.. You don't want to loose another good player do you?
Insecurity. Player's threat is more than nation's pride? Drop that boy. Let him join HB and take down Dhaka Warriors for all I care. After 80+ test innings, 100+ ODI innings, being a captain if he doesn't understand the word resposibility, captain's knock, leading by example; then he needs to sit his as$ just like Kumble.
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  #10  
Old October 21, 2008, 08:57 AM
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Along with batting , he failed in fielding placements , he should had attacking fielding from the beginning , allowed batsmen to take easy singles.
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  #11  
Old October 21, 2008, 09:20 AM
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T_E,
Assthefool's fans live in wonderland like Alice. You can not wake them up. I gave up. If it was upon me, I should have told Assthefool to leave the stadium and never ever dream of playing for Bangladesh unless he scored with Bradmanesque average in FC once he returned to pavilion after that horrendous shot. The fan still belive he would shine in next innings; they would rate his 158 over Nafees 120 any day; But forgot Nafees 120 was a match saving one while Assthefool's one show man one. The would talk about his 100, 80 againest Aus, SA conveiently forgetting the role of HB and Aftab in those match. The new word is he captained well; When you are playing well captaining is always in auto-pilot; but it comes into question when you are in pressure. Today I watch post lunch session; Still we have chance ; He should have crowded the batsmen. Instead he was giving single. Even when Flyn was batting there was no second slip or leg gully. Bowlers were bowling just outside off. That is not intelligent captaincy in my eye. Yesterday when Mash-Raj bowling there was six fielders within 3 m of batsmen. Vet and Obrain was bowling negative. Thus forcing Rajjak to play shots which ultimately cost his wicket. This is called captaincy. When going get tough, tough get going. Vettori is tough; my hats off to him; Assthefool is a pure softie and his fans live in Alice in wonderland
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  #12  
Old October 21, 2008, 09:29 AM
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BANFAN BANFAN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
lol, ar koto kal eita niya thakben? ....................

What?? Okay, I understand you didn't watch the match, at least you saw the score card, right? If not then here it is ..........................................

Insecurity. Player's threat is more than nation's pride? Drop that boy. .................................................. ..... then he needs to sit his as$ just like Kumble.

TE you are right in all of the criticism, but you ignored a few facts:

1. see his relation with BD victories. Once again in the first ODI against NZ. Isn't it amazing? If he performs BD wins. Their are many who has individually performed, but we didn't manage a win. Doesn't it say that the guy also performed at the right time?

2. It isn't only him who didn't perform in 1st test. He performed in the ODIs Sakib didn't. Sakib performed in 1st test. Most of the players didn't perform in this test, if it wasn't Sakib, we would look like a familiar team, crumbling in 3 days.

3. He was excellent as BD Captain. You can compare his attitude & using resources as a captain with any previous captains, he will have a clear edge above the best.

It's true we expect more from Ash that's why we can't tolerate his failures. He should do more that I agree, but the guy is a lone match winner of the team, can we really afford to drop/dump him?

Kumble is a retard now & he should retire. Ash is still a young boy. Lets try to make him more responsible with bat. "..... Ekbar Na parile dekho shotobar"
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  #13  
Old October 21, 2008, 09:34 AM
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In the West, the way problems are tackled is by working on them, and not by dismissing them right away.

Whatever problem any single person has in our team, is pretty common with all players (and sometimes with fans too).

The pleasure should come from being able to overcome the challenge, and not by hiding it away.
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  #14  
Old October 21, 2008, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BANFAN
TE you are right in all of the criticism, but you ignored a few facts:

1. see his relation with BD victories. Once again in the first ODI against NZ. Isn't it amazing? If he performs BD wins. Their are many who has individually performed, but we didn't manage a win. Doesn't it say that the guy also performed at the right time?

2. It isn't only him who didn't perform in 1st test. He performed in the ODIs Sakib didn't. Sakib performed in 1st test. Most of the players didn't perform in this test, if it wasn't Sakib, we would look like a familiar team, crumbling in 3 days.

3. He was excellent as BD Captain. You can compare his attitude & using resources as a captain with any previous captains, he will have a clear edge above the best.

It's true we expect more from Ash that's why we can't tolerate his failures. He should do more that I agree, but the guy is a lone match winner of the team, can we really afford to drop/dump him?

Kumble is a retard now & he should retire. Ash is still a young boy. Lets try to make him more responsible with bat. "..... Ekbar Na parile dekho shotobar"
First of all, you are mixing test and ODIs. This thread was started with comparing two captains with test statistics.

1. Game 1 vs NZ: Rather than giving credit to Ash for that victory you can do a better analysis than above. I give you another chance. No, it is not amazing. BD wins and will win without his performance. Right time?? What better right time would have been than second innings against NZ????

2. It is only he who has the TEST EXPERIENCE. It is only he who didn't perform. He is not worthy to hog a top order position. The moment you take him out of that position he does not warrant a place in the team. He needs a break. He needs to prove that he can be consistant. Only way one can do that is by playing on domestic cricket.

3. You haven't read theBest bhai's post. Please read it. There goes the captaincy!! Comparing with HB, lol, we have a very low standard. Anything would be better than that.

Kumble and Ash are not performing captains. So was Vaughn. When you can't perform you donot warrant a place in the team. Young-old, black-white doesn't matter. Otherwise you are short changing the team. Team always comes before any player. Not the other way around. He can't learn responsibility if he is not facing any hardship. Spoilbrats never realise how good everythings are made for them. Only when the allowance is taken away, or punishment is imposed they realise their mistakes. Ash is no different. He will never learn how to build an innings in the National team settings.

In net practice, he faces balls says 4 ball and 6 ball (but in real life game settings those are out balls) since there is no fielders around. How can he realise his misconception? Unless you kick him out from his comfort zone (National side) he will not realise who good was everything made for him. Let him compete with other non-talented ones for a prolong period of time and prove that he understands how to build an innings and how to perform. He is no longer the 16 year old. Nor as a captain he has license to kill anymore.
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  #15  
Old October 21, 2008, 10:02 AM
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That's why sometimes its good to have an allrounder as a captain. He will perform in both way. If he fails in batting he will perform in bowling.

I want to see Mash captaining in the next match and Shakib becoming VC.

Ash needs a break in the next match. But can't be dropped from the SA squad. SA squad needs experienced players (even if they don't play in the main eleven). However, after the SA tour, he should be dropped till he becomes consistent.
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  #16  
Old October 21, 2008, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pundit
In the West, the way problems are tackled is by working on them, and not by dismissing them right away.

Whatever problem any single person has in our team, is pretty common with all players (and sometimes with fans too).

The pleasure should come from being able to overcome the challenge, and not by hiding it away.
Totally agree with. However, the environment of correcting the problem may not be in live settings (software). For sports: Minor leagues (baseball), working in the off season (Basketball, Football etc.)

Professionals should already have the basic knowledge. When someone doesn't, he/she is either sent for training (not live) or gets fired.

Send the boy to the minor leagues. We have replacements who may not have the talent but have better tempartment and can contribute consistantly.
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  #17  
Old October 21, 2008, 10:07 AM
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অধিনায়ক হিসাবে আশরাফুলের উন্নতি চোঝে পরার মত। শুধু ব্যাটিংটাই ডুবাল ওকে
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  #18  
Old October 21, 2008, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auntu
অধিনায়ক হিসাবে আশরাফুলের উন্নতি চোঝে পরার মত। শুধু ব্যাটিংটাই ডুবাল ওকে
Auntu bhaia,
chokher dactar dekhan. or read:

Quote:
Originally Posted by theBest
...The new word is he captained well; When you are playing well captaining is always in auto-pilot; but it comes into question when you are in pressure. Today I watched post lunch session; Still we have chance ; He should have crowded the batsmen. Instead he was giving single. Even when Flyn was batting there was no second slip or leg gully. Bowlers were bowling just outside off. That is not intelligent captaincy in my eye. Yesterday when Mash-Raj bowling there was six fielders within 3 m of batsmen. Vet and Obrain was bowling negative. Thus forcing Rajjak to play shots which ultimately cost his wicket. This is called captaincy. When going get tough, tough get going. Vettori is tough; my hats off to him; Assthefool is a pure softie and his fans live in Alice in wonderland
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  #19  
Old October 21, 2008, 10:15 AM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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If you beliven that Ash should be be dropped, before Sa tour is the time to do, not after SA tour. If you keep him upto SA, that means after Sa game there will be a gap, Ash will his a 200 in local practice match, and every thing will be forgotten and forgiven and same the cycle of self destruct and team destruction will continue for 2009.

So if you belive he should be droped, it have to be before SA tour.

"Justice delayed is justice denied" same way if you delay your action, the effectivity reduces.
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  #20  
Old October 21, 2008, 10:23 AM
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BANFAN BANFAN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
First of all, you are mixing test and ODIs. This thread was started with comparing two captains with test statistics.
Seen that and there is no disagreement with that. He has to learn to take the responsibility as a captain. We must not forget that he doesn't have that strong test cricket culture at his back as Vetori has.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
1. Game 1 vs NZ: Rather than giving credit to Ash for that victory you can do a better analysis than above. I give you another chance. No, it is not amazing. BD wins and will win without his performance. Right time?? What better right time would have been than second innings against NZ????
Don't agree that BD would win without him, why then complain when he doesn't perform and we lose? How many wins we have while he didn't perform? We can't expect one person to perform in every right time. The occasions he performed were right times, so we won. Why can't someone else do it in some occasions?[/QUOTE]

I read thebest's post and agree and also agree to most of the criticisms that you and a few others made. But as I mentioned before; he is a match winner in ODI context and don't agree that we can aford to dump him & truely we have a short supply of quality tallents.

Test can't be won by one individual as it can be in ODIs & that's why it is test. It is the skill of Every department that matters for a win. I brought in ODIs to show individual characters effectively displayed.

It was one individuals all round performance that made us look competitive in this test. Adding another 60 would not give us a victory, the NZ would have to have a gameplan to score at a higher rate only and they would have done it the same way. We didn't have the bowling attack to dictate terms to the opponents, specially in 4th innings. We really can't dream of winning a test with this bowling attack.

Ash will do good in the next test i hope. There are quiet a few top order batsmen who failed to perform in this test.
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Last edited by BANFAN; October 21, 2008 at 12:57 PM..
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  #21  
Old October 21, 2008, 10:23 AM
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WE dodn't have any gap after SA tour as well.

WE have Srilanka coming in December. Just around 1/2 weeks after they come back from SA.

I guess its not better to debut another new player in an alien land. SA is a danger place to debut for any players.
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  #22  
Old October 21, 2008, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muradnyc
WE dodn't have any gap after SA tour as well.

WE have Srilanka coming in December. Just around 1/2 weeks after they come back from SA.

I guess its not better to debut another new player in an alien land. SA is a danger place to debut for any players.
Correct!! Raqibul can take over the second down. Mash can take over the captaincy and Shakib as his deputy. Ash can stay home and get married and follow the foot steps of AA, SN.
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  #23  
Old October 21, 2008, 10:43 AM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BANFAN
Why can't someone else do it in some occasions?
How can someone preform when Ash is occupying the most important slot in the the batting order for last 6/7 years.... you cannot perform for the team if you are not in the team. The team invested in Ash for 6/7 years hoping that he start performing in a consistent basis.... not when he feel like once in a blue moon.... but it never happened. And its time to cut loss and move forward and see what others can do(who is not in the team, like for example Rokibul).


In 1st ODI he played a supporting role (same way Tushar and Aftab did in a ODI win against Australia) and he should get credit for that. But to tell that he was responsible for winning the game for us is like just giving credit to the wrong player for the win.

Its not that we don't have any players who cannot replace Ash in test. We have, and if we are patients enough to gime him few chances, he will produce more runs than what Ash is producing now a days in test.

I said it before, and I am saying it now... Ash is btter suited for 20-20 rather than ODI or TEST. In ODi he can only justify his position if he plays at #7 and polish his bowling, otherwise with his current form and current mentality (only know to play in one gear) he should not be in our national ODI team.
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Last edited by Fazal; October 21, 2008 at 10:50 AM..
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  #24  
Old October 21, 2008, 10:57 AM
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Spitfire_x86 Spitfire_x86 is offline
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His contribution is practically nothing in 4 of our best test matches.

1. Pakistan (Multan)
2. Australia (Fatullah)
3. South Africa (Dhaka)
4. New Zealand (Chittagong)
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  #25  
Old October 21, 2008, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal
How can someone preform when Ash is occupying the most important slot in the the batting order for last 6/7 years.
Give a name of a BD player who if given Ashraful's 'Important' batting position would have won matches for us or say in tests score four centuries for us ? I would happily replace him with ash as my profile favorite player and bookmark his cricinfo profile page.

Speaking of slots why do you think 2 down is the most important slot ? I thought 1 down accommodated the teams best batsmen and Ash barring recent games hardly played in that slot.

Hate him or like him, deep down inside the heart of every fan pumps two liters of blood every time he comes onto bat.
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