Serial Losers: No place in test cricket?

[ashkale]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle5218885.ece

Serial losers who have no place in the Test arena
So let’s have a moan about terrible results in cricket. No, nothing to do with England; we can always give them a kicking next week if they seem to deserve it. Let’s talk about teams that shouldn’t be playing top-flight international cricket at all, and yet they do, and there is no stopping them.
Bangladesh lost a Test match again last week. Bangladesh are the Polly Garter of international cricket. Polly, the loose woman in Under Milk Wood, was regarded by some as a saint: “She was martyred again last night.” Bangladesh were martyred again last week, this time at the hands of South Africa, who won by an innings and 129 runs. Now this sort of bad result happens to all teams at some time or another, but it happens to Bangladesh every time. They have won one Test match out of 56. Against whom do you think that was?
All right, put your hands down, it was indeed Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe’s cricket has already gone from bad to worse; now it’s progressing smoothly to shatteringly inept. Sri Lanka beat them by six wickets in a one-day international last week and then in the second match bowled them out for 67, knocking off the runs in 18 overs.
And any side can have a bad trot, as Kevin Pietersen will be the first to agree, but these two processions of calamity do no good to anybody. There is no joy for the winners, only embarrassment. There is nothing to be learnt by the losers, other than that humiliation tastes bitter.
The first rule of any governing body is to provide the most compelling sport it possibly can. But cricket has neglected that, because of the power game at the heart, and the splitting of the game on colour lines. Bangladesh play Test cricket because they vote for India whenever asked.
It’s a win every way you look at it for India. Those who lose are those that matter least in sport: the audience and the athletes.

[Eshen]

Can't refute what Barnes wrote.

Without the opportunity of participating in a decent FC league, you can't expect a player to develop skills and attitude required for Test cricket. Reasonable thing for BCB to do would be to withdraw ourselves from Test arena and to concentrate on developing a decent FC league first.

[AsifTheManRahman]

Originally Posted by ashkale
Bangladesh play Test cricket because they vote for India whenever asked.

If only the BCB understood that, we would have SN, Alok and Dhiman playing for us today.

[cricket_king]

LOL. We got owned rather hard...

[RazabQ]

As myself:
Eshen - please get over such a defeatist attitude. I'm seeing a lot of it lately. Yes we need a competitive FC. But that ain't gonna happen overnight. Why _should_ we withdraw from Test cricket? The other day Vettori pointed out that after all these year's NZ has been playing Test cricket, they've had just had Martin Crowe with a 45 avg. No one else comes close. Think about that! I hate it that after every big defeat we have legions of uncle Tom wannabe apologist who will go: "yessa... massa be right ...we be 2nd class and we deserves the beat down"
How can the national team grow a pair when we ourselves (the general population) seem so sorely lacking?

[Rifat]

Originally Posted by RazabQ
As myself:
Eshen - please get over such a defeatist attitude. I'm seeing a lot of it lately. Yes we need a competitive FC. But that ain't gonna happen overnight. Why _should_ we withdraw from Test cricket? The other day Vettori pointed out that after all these year's NZ has been playing Test cricket, they've had just had Martin Crowe with a 45 avg. No one else comes close. Think about that! I hate it that after every big defeat we have legions of uncle Tom wannabe apologist who will go: "yessa... massa be right ...we be 2nd class and we deserves the beat down"
How can the national team grow a pair when we ourselves (the general population) seem so sorely lacking?

perfectly put!

[Spitfire_x86]

Originally Posted by Eshen
Without the opportunity of participating in a decent FC league, you can't expect a player to develop skills and attitude required for Test cricket. Reasonable thing for BCB to do would be to withdraw ourselves from Test arena and to concentrate on developing a decent FC league first.

If prospect of a spot in the test team can't make the players take NCL very seriously, what would happen if we stop playing tests? If BCB doesn't have enough money now to make NCL a financially lucrative option for players, how will they get the money to do it when we won't play tests?

Withdrawing from test cricket is no way to increase quality, Zimbabwe is the proof.

[kalpurush]

Originally Posted by Eshen
Can't refute what Barnes wrote.

Without the opportunity of participating in a decent FC league, you can't expect a player to develop skills and attitude required for Test cricket. Reasonable thing for BCB to do would be to withdraw ourselves from Test arena and to concentrate on developing a decent FC league first.

Originally Posted by RazabQ
As myself:
Eshen - please get over such a defeatist attitude. I'm seeing a lot of it lately. Yes we need a competitive FC. But that ain't gonna happen overnight. Why _should_ we withdraw from Test cricket? The other day Vettori pointed out that after all these year's NZ has been playing Test cricket, they've had just had Martin Crowe with a 45 avg. No one else comes close. Think about that! I hate it that after every big defeat we have legions of uncle Tom wannabe apologist who will go: "yessa... massa be right ...we be 2nd class and we deserves the beat down"
How can the national team grow a pair when we ourselves (the general population) seem so sorely lacking?

Originally Posted by Spitfire_x86
If prospect of a spot in the test team can't make the players take NCL very seriously, what would happen if we stop playing tests? If BCB doesn't have enough money now to make NCL a financially lucrative option for players, how will they get the money to do it when we won't play tests?

Withdrawing from test cricket is no way to increase quality, Zimbabwe is the proof.

Nothing I see to add.

[mahbubH]

Originally Posted by AsifTheManRahman
If only the BCB understood that, we would have SN, Alok and Dhiman playing for us today.

I have seen these players many years . I think current players are as good as these.

If BD need support it is BCCI who vote for us none of AUS,NZ,ENG would vote for us.

[Eshen]

Originally Posted by RazabQ
As myself:
Eshen - please get over such a defeatist attitude. I'm seeing a lot of it lately. Yes we need a competitive FC. But that ain't gonna happen overnight. Why _should_ we withdraw from Test cricket? The other day Vettori pointed out that after all these year's NZ has been playing Test cricket, they've had just had Martin Crowe with a 45 avg. No one else comes close. Think about that! I hate it that after every big defeat we have legions of uncle Tom wannabe apologist who will go: "yessa... massa be right ...we be 2nd class and we deserves the beat down"
How can the national team grow a pair when we ourselves (the general population) seem so sorely lacking?

Defeatist?! I think the appropiate word is realistic.

45+ ?! I will be very happy to see someone after Bashar reaching 30+.

Why should we withdraw from Test cricket? Because our team ain't worth sh!t in this version. In Test arena, the question is not whether Bangladesh will be able to avoid a defeat, the question is whether Bangladesh will be able to avoid an innings defeat. All those thrashings help our players gain nothing but their match fees.

The players can develop herniated pairs if they like, but I don't see how that may help them for a format they are simply not prepared for.

[Sovik]

as long as we don't start to perform there will be no shortage of these sort of articles. i am not really bothered about this but BCB should. they should start to think whats the best for our cricket. we need competitive NCL. We need talent hunts. We need to organize cricket league in every district. in My town Sirajganj we never had regular first division league, last time we had that didn't come easy. we had to protest and rally with banners. we have few good cricketers in our district but they are never going to get any exposure and i think that would be the case with many towns.

[Eshen]

Originally Posted by Spitfire_x86
If prospect of a spot in the test team can't make the players take NCL very seriously, what would happen if we stop playing tests? If BCB doesn't have enough money now to make NCL a financially lucrative option for players, how will they get the money to do it when we won't play tests?

I have wrote in another thread why NCL is an inherently flawed league that may never turn into an effective professional FC league.

http://www.banglacricket.com/alochon...86&postcount=9

I don't believe pouring more money into NCL will do us any good. What BCB needs do is to figure which are the appropiate leagues and series where to spend its time and money, instead of overcrowding the both international and domestic schedules with too many matches.

Money-wise, not being able to host 2-4 Tests per year should not hurt BCB that much. If BCB can implement proper planning, it should have enough money for development funds from the dozen or so ODIs it hosts yearly.

Withdrawing from test cricket is no way to increase quality, Zimbabwe is the proof.

By withdrawing from Test cricket, I am not asking BCB to mess up the national team, domestic leagues, the cricket academy, and school leagues in ZC style. So, I am not sure how relevant is Zimbabwe's example in this case.

[Zeeshan]

Originally Posted by RazabQ
As myself:
Eshen - please get over such a defeatist attitude. I'm seeing a lot of it lately. Yes we need a competitive FC. But that ain't gonna happen overnight. Why _should_ we withdraw from Test cricket? The other day Vettori pointed out that after all these year's NZ has been playing Test cricket, they've had just had Martin Crowe with a 45 avg. No one else comes close. Think about that! I hate it that after every big defeat we have legions of uncle Tom wannabe apologist who will go: "yessa... massa be right ...we be 2nd class and we deserves the beat down"
How can the national team grow a pair when we ourselves (the general population) seem so sorely lacking?

Razab bhaiyer sathe kono kotha hoy nai....ei koidin BC-te thakar por.... but i follow ur many post and eibaro.... pura puri fataye falaisen...

i think you and al-furqaan bhai should team up together....a lethal combo

[al Furqaan]

Originally Posted by Eshen
Defeatist?! I think the appropiate word is realistic.

45+ ?! I will be very happy to see someone after Bashar reaching 30+.

Why should we withdraw from Test cricket? Because our team ain't worth sh!t in this version. In Test arena, the question is not whether Bangladesh will be able to avoid a defeat, the question is whether Bangladesh will be able to avoid an innings defeat. All those thrashings help our players gain nothing but their match fees.

The players can develop herniated pairs if they like, but I don't see how that may help them for a format they are simply not prepared for.

well there simply is NO other way. everyone here understands that we aren't ready for test cricket, but not playing is no solution. in fact, it will cricket.

bangladeshis play/follow cricket in the hope that one day they will come to be a force to reckon with, take the hope away, and thats it.

to be honest, our ODI record is not very good either. shouldn't we also give that up.

and while we're at it, bangladesh as a nation is poor, corrupt, ill-managed, and filthy. since we obviously aren't at par with the US or EU, shouldn't we give up our sovereignty as well? we obviously don't deserve or know how to run a country either.

[bujhee kom]

that's craazy talk...! this man needs to get his screw tightened (currently screw super dhilaa)...! who is this guy anyway..?

[GuruTM]

Great arguments from both point of view. al Furqaan's argument have great substance, sounds much like a resilience with a lot of elasticity attached to it. And BC fans can stretch this logic as much as they want to. The fact will remain the same. That elastic material is getting thinner. Its not just about bad performance, its also about the way BD gets treated in Test arena, its also about attitude and ethics. Denial is a negative attitude, you can only go this far with this attitude. Sadly that's the strongest trait with BD cricketers and fans alike.

[Tintin]

Originally Posted by Eshen

Why should we withdraw from Test cricket? Because our team ain't worth sh!t in this version. In Test arena, the question is not whether Bangladesh will be able to avoid a defeat, the question is whether Bangladesh will be able to avoid an innings defeat. All those thrashings help our players gain nothing but their match fees.

Bangladesh is hopeless in Tests under certain circumstances (playing South Africa away is one of them) and competitive in some others (NZ at home, for eg). What the management should do till the team improves is to minimise the former and maximize the latter. This is just not happening.+

[Dhakablues]

We don't need to be US/UK to be a better sporting country,, nor is a dientologist sporting body needed for its development. Srilanka is not a rich sport body,, it relies on India's money. In fact, Bangladesh board is richer than SL cricket.

There is a difference between ODI and Test. Our records in the last 5 years or so in ODIs are much better and promising. We are consistently beating major countries and getting used to it.. Why are we better in ODIs? Because, we play many ODIs and our domestic structure assist ODI players more than FC players. However, for Test cricket we have shown very little improvements and in fact most of it is due to self-deprecating decisions and policies than infrastructure or reasons.

We have discussed many times why we suck at Test cricket. There are numerous reasons but one primary reason we see clearly is the class of difference between players. Ashraful vs. Smith, Ntini vs. Shahadat, Styen vs. Mashrafee. We have good players but do they reach that height? The technique, stamina, mindset, strategy,, everything is simply wrong when it comes to playing Test cricket. And its simple... you bring a 19 year old to play a game where experience is needed. If the 19 year old is so good then why couldn't he score runs against domestic teams like Sylhet or Chittagong? Heck, even Barisal bowlers can restrict these players in 30 odd runs..Talent is one thing but experience is whats needed for international test matches and we against experienced players in our national team. Like or hate it thats our selection policy. We will not tolerate any players above 29 to be in our national team. Simply put, its a crime, its an embarrassment and its not Test cricket.

[smashyboy]

Originally Posted by Dhakablues
There is a difference between ODI and Test. Our records in the last 5 years or so in ODIs are much better and promising. We are consistently beating major countries and getting used to it.. Why are we better in ODIs?

Are you sure?

http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/...ults;type=team

[nzfan]

You win one day matches for the same reason New Zealand does. They are only one day long, a test match is 5 days and you have to do consistantly well over all days to win it

[RazabQ]

Eshen, so let me ask you this. An India vs. Australia match is going on Sopcast and a Abahoni vs. Mohammedan 4-day match is going on the same time and also available on Sop (highly doubtful to start with)? You telling me you'll stay up late to watch the latter? Now let me change the last option to a Bangladesh vs. Windies Test match in Guyana that is available on Sopcast (way more probable). Any change?

Perhaps it will be easier if you stop following the Tigers. Clearly you have lost the appetite for the fight.

Again as myself of course and not intended to cause any disrespect.

[Dhakablues]

In ODIs only,,We have a 52% win rate in the last 4 years ( http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/...ults;type=team) compared to 3% ( http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/...ults;type=team) fr the 4 years prior. Yes, some wins are against the minnows but we used to lose against them not too long ago... If you think about the tours we are having and in every tour we are winning one match every so often.. thats what I meant. I mean think of it this way,, how many people were on the streets when we beat NZ this time? None..We are a competitive side for ODIs and there is no denial to that..even from likes of Tony Greig..

[RazabQ]

Originally Posted by Eshen
By withdrawing from Test cricket, I am not asking BCB to mess up the national team, domestic leagues, the cricket academy, and school leagues in ZC style. So, I am not sure how relevant is Zimbabwe's example in this case.

And pray tell what would be the apex of this organizational pyramid? A-team tours????

[Murad]

Originally Posted by Dhakablues
In ODIs only,,We have a 52% win rate in the last 4 years ( http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/...ults;type=team) compared to 3% ( http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/...ults;type=team) fr the 4 years prior. Yes, some wins are against the minnows but we used to lose against them not too long

Its actually 34.6% win rate not 52%.

[Russell2k7]

All Bangladesh needs to do is win just 1 out 10 matches against top teams in ODI. And just freakin compete in test.