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  #1  
Old January 19, 2009, 06:13 AM
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Sohel Sohel is offline
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Question Shonar Moyna Pakhi

He has continued to improve in every facet of the game, and he'd be the first one to tell you that he has a long way to go before being the best cricketer he can be. RARE from one of us on all counts.

Would it be wise for us to gamble with all this and make him captain at this point? Captaincy may accelerate his growth or stagnate it beyond repair. He is "mature for his age" and all that, but would it be RIGHT to play with yet another promising career in our incessant search for "new and improved" stop gap measures?

Or do we have better odds with someone like McInnes as a proactive, emapathetic coach who knows how to deal with the Bangladeshi petit-bourgeoisie/lumpen proletariat, breathing down Ash's neck, a well-oiled and tempered bamboo prod in hand?

BTW, Mashrafe has also found his form. So how how wise would it be to funk that up again?
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Last edited by Sohel; January 19, 2009 at 06:38 AM..
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  #2  
Old January 19, 2009, 06:20 AM
billah billah is offline
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Here we go....

Knew this would happen, didn't expect it from Sohel NR
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  #3  
Old January 19, 2009, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billah
Here we go....

Knew this would happen, didn't expect it from Sohel NR
Just asking questions bro, not asking for anyone's head or tail. Read it carefully if you please ...

Hindsight is always 20/20, but I had my doubts about Sid being a good hire or a real motivator. I stand by that but it bothers me that he has not been able to make me eat my words. I'm still waiting for our top order batsmen to click as unit more or less regularly. I'm still waiting to see better footwork, strike rotation and shot selection with regards to the actual merit of the delivery.

Having said all this, I don't have the answer. Looking for thoughtful thoughts.
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  #4  
Old January 19, 2009, 06:27 AM
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BTW, Sakib has broken into the top 5 ODI alrounder ranking. He is #3 now. Quoting from today's ICC Media Release:

"The main beneficiary of Bangladesh’s success was Shakib Al Hasan, who has broken into the top five in the Reliance Mobile ICC Player Rankings for ODI all-rounders. The 21-year-old scored 153 runs in the series at an average of 76.50 and a strike-rate of better than a run a ball while also managing to collect five wickets for 69 runs at an average of 13.80 and an economy-rate of just 2.65.

That effort has gained him three places in the all-rounders’ list, putting him above Jacques Kallis of South Africa and Pakistan’s Shoaib Malik but still behind Jacob Oram of New Zealand in first place and England’s Andrew Flintoff second. He has also moved up 10 places to 34th in the Reliance Mobile ICC Player Rankings for ODI batsmen."

All-rounders

Rank (+/-) Player Team Points HS Rating

1 ( - ) Jacob Oram NZ 368 383 v WI at Queenstown 2008
2 ( - ) Andrew Flintoff Eng 366 544 v SL at The Rose Bowl 2004
3 (+3) Shakib Al Hasan Ban 361! 361 v SL at Dhaka 2009
4= (+1) Jacques Kallis SA 342 505 v WI at Bridgetown 2001
(-1) Shoaib Malik Pak 342 402 v WI at Brisbane 2005
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  #5  
Old January 19, 2009, 06:33 AM
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I don't think we should gamble with Moyna's development at this point OR MaMu's form for that matter.

The coach needs to be more proactive, period. International cricket has come a long way. In their time, Ian Chappell and Clive Lloyd served as captain/coach. In our time in Bangladesh, we need someone who's a coach/captain as far as the ability to motivate goes. I'm takling about the ability to motivate the batsmen to apply themselves sensibly.
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Last edited by Sohel; January 19, 2009 at 06:38 AM..
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  #6  
Old January 19, 2009, 06:42 AM
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  #7  
Old January 19, 2009, 06:50 AM
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IMO, Siddons do not spend enough time with these batsmen. By now, he should have had some success in correcting their mistakes.

He usually have a camp for a few days before a series, then he is off on holidays. I will say that he is not a dedicated coach, it is the money and benefits that he has taken this job.
It will be a shame if BD loses this series to Zim, a team who is struggling against all the odds, and who is not even mentioned on any of the rankings. Ireland seems to be the team below BD.
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  #8  
Old January 19, 2009, 06:55 AM
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pretty sure i read an article recently where siddons says that as he is the head coach he doesn't have enough time to work with the batsmen, he wants a specialist batting coach hired.
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  #9  
Old January 19, 2009, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
pretty sure i read an article recently where siddons says that as he is the head coach he doesn't have enough time to work with the batsmen, he wants a specialist batting coach hired.
What does head coach do then, count how many dirty shorts need to be given to the laundry.
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  #10  
Old January 19, 2009, 07:10 AM
billah billah is offline
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Over and over, we hear the horrible stories of one problem - "Batting Failure". Over and over, we hear the possible/probable cause: "Shot-selection". Well, "Shot-selection" is not just skill, not just intuition. "Shot selection" is a decision-making process.The decision-making process of a "cumulative" top-middle order brain that is averaging about 20 years is quite different than that of a 30-ish one.

It's the coach.
It's the skipper.
It's Junaid
Sack this guy, sack that guy.

We've heard it all.

Ranjit Fernando was sharing: Sri Lankans, before becoming a Test nation, used to play a lot of 4-day matches. Players such as Ranatunga, Mendis were quite prone to playing long, arduous, innings well before they started playing Tests - the only arena where you can get a lot of time in the middle against quality bowling.

When that 20-ish cerebral cortex gets to be 30-ish, this batting demon will mitigate itself - my humble opinion. We need to back our "kids" wholeheartedly. We need to give them tenure. Worship their primary success - you get Shahriar Nafees type flops. Drop too many of them - you end up with a team with even hotter head.

We are passing, of all things, a time of development. It will pass. So will the batting, I mean decision-making issues. Soon enough, soon enough - we'll see consistency, repeated success and more so - substantial averages from our future batting stars.

DW, towards the end of his tenure - was pretty much giving motivational speeches every now and then. Salauddin bhai was doing much of the daily trainings with the players. JS is very much hands on. He's been a "process" coach from just about day one. Very different in style, yet, success of these two coaching era can not be much different from each other. Next coach, I suppose, would probably be looking for a genetic disorder for the batting failure. Point is, methods of the coach will become less of an issue as we become more success-prone with time.

Time. Let them mature. Diamonds in the rough. Every one of these kids.

I often think of the lives of these kids. Yes, there is glamour, money, air travel, fancy hotel, autograph etc. etc. But imagine yourself as Ash. Where is your young adulthood? How does it feel to stand under the beating sun in Multan, helplessly staring at sure defeat, being deliberately hit by Inzamam, while fielding at silly point? How does it feel to come home after these heavy beatings? How fast do these kids have to mature to handle the pressure? Injuries, insults and what not....

I love every one of them. I respect them deeply.
They will succeed.
In time.
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  #11  
Old January 19, 2009, 07:50 AM
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Sakib is still not ready.
Just when he is about to become n°1 allrndr, let him first gain this place.
Better make Mashr despite his injury .
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  #12  
Old January 19, 2009, 10:04 AM
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spot on billah.

well said. even the most devout of fans need some shots of reality. bottom line is there will always be a low to go with the "highs". a series loss to zimbabwe is just one of those lows. we've survived far worse (losses to canada and the ICL), we can get through this as well.
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  #13  
Old January 19, 2009, 10:07 AM
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How about ICC just strips us off from all sorts of cricket and ICL fires DW from next season. Then we do not have to worry about Moyna, Tia, Olympic Battery etc.
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  #14  
Old January 19, 2009, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zainab
IMO, Siddons do not spend enough time with these batsmen. By now, he should have had some success in correcting their mistakes.

He usually have a camp for a few days before a series, then he is off on holidays. I will say that he is not a dedicated coach, it is the money and benefits that he has taken this job.
It will be a shame if BD loses this series to Zim, a team who is struggling against all the odds, and who is not even mentioned on any of the rankings. Ireland seems to be the team below BD.
In short...I would rather put the whole thing in a different perspective. Siddons is probably a coach who is pretty much used to deal with players who are hard-tempered already through a very systematic aussi format. He seems to have a hard time handling players who have a changed mindset and mood every morning. The subcontinental mindset is always very volatile and emotional. That is why coaching a subcontinental side is more about motivating than about sharpening up their skills. It is more about understanding the chemistry rather than the physics of the minds of the team-members. Somehow, DW used to be alart of this visionary way of motivating them.. much more than Siddons.

It will probably take JS about a decade to understand what DW was already equipped with...
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  #15  
Old January 19, 2009, 10:22 AM
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I believe after this Job JS will not have much places to go - hope he does not end up in a rehab.
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  #16  
Old January 19, 2009, 10:30 AM
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Spot on Billah bhai. You spoke my mind.
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  #17  
Old January 19, 2009, 10:34 AM
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Billah bhai, what is Champaka doing that is working so well? The bowlers almost got us two wins defending a target's below 150 and actually bowled Sri Lanka out for that score. What has he done in his very short tenure that JS is struggling to do with the batsmen?
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  #18  
Old January 19, 2009, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tehsin
Billah bhai, what is Champaka doing that is working so well? The bowlers almost got us two wins defending a target's below 150 and actually bowled Sri Lanka out for that score. What has he done in his very short tenure that JS is struggling to do with the batsmen?
Nothing special, I think. Champaka needed some young hot-heads with some raw talent, a bowling coach's dream. He is focusing their rage. I do expect some injury problems with Rubels and such in near future, unfortunately. Those ligaments have not had enough time to get strong yet.

JS also have some young hot-heads with some raw talent in his hands. Indeed, that is the problem. The young hot-heads.....

Give them time. Time to cool down.
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  #19  
Old January 19, 2009, 11:18 AM
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all rounders shouldn't be given captaincy. if it works out, yeah its great.. but its too risky for a country like bangladesh and a player like shakib.

the only brilliant all rounder captain that comes to mind is imran khan. others have all experienced a slump after being given captaincy, eg. flintoff (ashes, 2006)
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  #20  
Old January 19, 2009, 12:30 PM
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all hail shakib all hail shakib all hail shakib all hail shakib all hail shakib all hail shakib all hail shakib all hail shakib all hail shakib all hail shakib all hail shakib all hail shakib all hail shakib all hail shakib
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  #21  
Old January 19, 2009, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billah

We've heard it all.
I think you sum it up pretty well. I've always maintained that a higher average age could eliminate most of our problems.
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  #22  
Old January 19, 2009, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billah
Over and over, we hear the horrible stories of one problem - "Batting Failure". Over and over, we hear the possible/probable cause: "Shot-selection". Well, "Shot-selection" is not just skill, not just intuition. "Shot selection" is a decision-making process.The decision-making process of a "cumulative" top-middle order brain that is averaging about 20 years is quite different than that of a 30-ish one.

It's the coach.
It's the skipper.
It's Junaid
Sack this guy, sack that guy.

We've heard it all.

Ranjit Fernando was sharing: Sri Lankans, before becoming a Test nation, used to play a lot of 4-day matches. Players such as Ranatunga, Mendis were quite prone to playing long, arduous, innings well before they started playing Tests - the only arena where you can get a lot of time in the middle against quality bowling.

When that 20-ish cerebral cortex gets to be 30-ish, this batting demon will mitigate itself - my humble opinion. We need to back our "kids" wholeheartedly. We need to give them tenure. Worship their primary success - you get Shahriar Nafees type flops. Drop too many of them - you end up with a team with even hotter head.

We are passing, of all things, a time of development. It will pass. So will the batting, I mean decision-making issues. Soon enough, soon enough - we'll see consistency, repeated success and more so - substantial averages from our future batting stars.

DW, towards the end of his tenure - was pretty much giving motivational speeches every now and then. Salauddin bhai was doing much of the daily trainings with the players. JS is very much hands on. He's been a "process" coach from just about day one. Very different in style, yet, success of these two coaching era can not be much different from each other. Next coach, I suppose, would probably be looking for a genetic disorder for the batting failure. Point is, methods of the coach will become less of an issue as we become more success-prone with time.

Time. Let them mature. Diamonds in the rough. Every one of these kids.

I often think of the lives of these kids. Yes, there is glamour, money, air travel, fancy hotel, autograph etc. etc. But imagine yourself as Ash. Where is your young adulthood? How does it feel to stand under the beating sun in Multan, helplessly staring at sure defeat, being deliberately hit by Inzamam, while fielding at silly point? How does it feel to come home after these heavy beatings? How fast do these kids have to mature to handle the pressure? Injuries, insults and what not....

I love every one of them. I respect them deeply.
They will succeed.
In time.





one of the greatest BC posts of all time
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  #23  
Old January 19, 2009, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billah
Over and over, we hear the horrible stories of one problem - "Batting Failure". Over and over, we hear the possible/probable cause: "Shot-selection". Well, "Shot-selection" is not just skill, not just intuition. "Shot selection" is a decision-making process.The decision-making process of a "cumulative" top-middle order brain that is averaging about 20 years is quite different than that of a 30-ish one.

It's the coach.
It's the skipper.
It's Junaid
Sack this guy, sack that guy.

We've heard it all.

Ranjit Fernando was sharing: Sri Lankans, before becoming a Test nation, used to play a lot of 4-day matches. Players such as Ranatunga, Mendis were quite prone to playing long, arduous, innings well before they started playing Tests - the only arena where you can get a lot of time in the middle against quality bowling.

When that 20-ish cerebral cortex gets to be 30-ish, this batting demon will mitigate itself - my humble opinion. We need to back our "kids" wholeheartedly. We need to give them tenure. Worship their primary success - you get Shahriar Nafees type flops. Drop too many of them - you end up with a team with even hotter head.

We are passing, of all things, a time of development. It will pass. So will the batting, I mean decision-making issues. Soon enough, soon enough - we'll see consistency, repeated success and more so - substantial averages from our future batting stars.

DW, towards the end of his tenure - was pretty much giving motivational speeches every now and then. Salauddin bhai was doing much of the daily trainings with the players. JS is very much hands on. He's been a "process" coach from just about day one. Very different in style, yet, success of these two coaching era can not be much different from each other. Next coach, I suppose, would probably be looking for a genetic disorder for the batting failure. Point is, methods of the coach will become less of an issue as we become more success-prone with time.

Time. Let them mature. Diamonds in the rough. Every one of these kids.

I often think of the lives of these kids. Yes, there is glamour, money, air travel, fancy hotel, autograph etc. etc. But imagine yourself as Ash. Where is your young adulthood? How does it feel to stand under the beating sun in Multan, helplessly staring at sure defeat, being deliberately hit by Inzamam, while fielding at silly point? How does it feel to come home after these heavy beatings? How fast do these kids have to mature to handle the pressure? Injuries, insults and what not....

I love every one of them. I respect them deeply.
They will succeed.
In time.
fantastic post. mind blasting
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  #24  
Old January 19, 2009, 05:46 PM
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my first preference is Mortaza but yes, this boy will do damn good for sure..

I beleive Mortaza and Shakib will do way better than Ash..
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  #25  
Old January 19, 2009, 06:17 PM
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Compulsary captaincy classes for Ash, Mash, Shakib, Mushi, Naeem (future ones potential) and Siddons. All the strategy making decision will be fine. I mean 60% of the time instead of now 10%.

Plus education.

Good thread bro, great post Billah bhai.
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