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  #26  
Old February 12, 2009, 08:15 PM
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Yeah let the ICL players play, lift the ban!
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  #27  
Old February 12, 2009, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal
I thought Bangladesh alreaDY Bangladesh embraced T20 more than any other country.They like T20 so much, they even use T20 stategy in TEST matches.
Yeah dude, we invented T20. Like 9 years ago.
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  #28  
Old February 12, 2009, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AsifTheManRahman
Yeah dude, we invented T20. Like 9 years ago.
I thought Al Gore invented it?
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  #29  
Old February 12, 2009, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal
I agree with all of you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MohammedC
I agree with Fazal Bhai
ফযল মামু এবং মোহাম্মাদ ভাই যে সকল বিষয়ের উপর একমত হয়েছেন আমিও একমত হলাম।
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  #30  
Old February 13, 2009, 12:16 AM
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No they don't. Die twenty20...DIE.
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  #31  
Old February 13, 2009, 12:39 AM
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but still they need to be able to differentiate between t20 and the other forms....

can our players handle so much work?
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  #32  
Old February 13, 2009, 01:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
Self belief, lol. 4 years have passed Bd team had the self-belief of beating big boys in ODIs. That didn't do us any good in Test. All loses barring weather. Mostly by innings. Oi self belief'er dorkar nai. T20 thekey only self belief they will get is we may be able to win 1 out of 3 in this format, but 0 out 30 in test.
Our recent performances suggest, even if we didn't win any tests but we are performing much better than the early days. We must have been boosted by the self belief gained from ODI wins into tests.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
1) First of all, T20 "jodi laigga jai" cheap thrill method will not be lost from BD cricket as long as there is AAA and other players as such. And by chance if we lose the ability to play T20, that doesn't hurt BCB's FTP, or their earnings at all. BD Cricket is safe.

2) However, by any chance, if we lose Test status, that is it buddy. That is the end of Banglacricket.com also. If we don't start performing in Test soon we will lose our status. Top eight BOARDS will agree to that before they agree on two tier system. (Say, I am wrong!! Please)

Risk mgmt that is all you need to do. The threats are enormous and real. You put your resources to fight of the fire which may destroy your existence. They you focus on other issues. Test, ODIs and then T20. If Ireland wins the T20 WorldCup they will not be given test status next day. Simple fact.
I agree T20 results are more on chances. But this is the pattern of game in last roughly 20 overs in all form of the game. Off course in the tests you may have different situations as well. if that is a match saving situation, rathar than winning.

I agree with your concern of losing the the test status, but if you can also master the last 20 overs skills, you can convert such situations in the test to victories. That helps. We went close to winning in a good number of test matches but couldn't convert it to victory at the end. May be we lacked T20 skills to do that, either with ball or bat. If we could, that would help our status as well in tests.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
This may be a temporary solution but then the test players salary must be very high to keep them grounded. I would still prefer a overall ban on this format only for BD and Zim.

The ban should be temporary. Very essential to make BD players/fans understand which format is more important and why. T20 teaches the very opposite that is necessary for Test which is Patience, perseverance, diligence. T20 teaches you to go after bowlers doesn't matter where your foot is (technique). Run pailai hoilo. This is a direct conflict with the core values of test.
You are concerned that the players might be carried away with the pattern of T20 and that might affect Test Temperament, that can be eliminated by a temporary method as you say. The message needs to be engraved in their mind that every form has different attitude predominantly, but the T20 skills can come into play in appropriate situations even in a test match. So banning might hinder the development of much needed sets of skills which can make difference at the end. There are players who can play T20 & Tests with same temperament and team benefits from that immensely, if he is good in doing that. Like Shahwag, Gilli, Snath etc etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
You guys are looking at T20 from Australia, India, SA, Eng all the established nations point of view. We are not those country. Unless we learn how to be patient while batting we will not get close to them. Again I have no problem what the world does with T20. Or even invent T10, F5. My concern is Bangladesh, part of Zimbabwe also cause we are in the same boat.

Getting few wins in T20, does not do us any good to be recognised as cricketing power. We do not have the luxury of services of players like De Silva, Ranatunga. We have make our own De Silva and Ranatunga's. Emphasizing T20 will only slow down the process.
If the broader principle of acquiring knowledge in life is, "Knowing Something of Everything & Everything of Something", wheather you look at Cricket broadly or narrow it down from a cricketer's point of view, you cannot tottaly ban/ignore a form of cricket which has been embraced by the international community & which is going to be useful at some stage in the longer version as well & most importantly it is an aggressive skill which can bring results if utilized properly in any form of the game.

If you want to win in any sports competition, you need to master agressiveness to be able to convert marginal chances into victory. Wars/battles aren't won by deffensive techniques/tactics, which are also important as a part of over all strategy. But victory only comes through measured agressive actions. That T20 can teach our players to win the battles with bat & ball.
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Last edited by BANFAN; February 13, 2009 at 04:49 AM..
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  #33  
Old February 13, 2009, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auntu
ফযল মামু এবং মোহাম্মাদ ভাই যে সকল বিষয়ের উপর একমত হয়েছেন আমিও একমত হলাম।
Now I disagree. If Mohammed calls Fazal bhai, how come you call him mamu and you call me bhai. I need explanation
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  #34  
Old February 13, 2009, 09:48 AM
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BANFAN and others,
Give me one situation, in the history of the game or even hypothetically (last 20 overs), where T20 experience can help in Test for BD. Try me, I am open to change my opinion as long as you have sound logic. Warning: I will disect your hypothesis pretty badly so make sure your "what-if" is a good one.

If you can't why all this arguement?
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  #35  
Old February 13, 2009, 10:29 AM
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Find me a player who suddenly forgot how to play real cricket after playing few T20 tournaments.
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  #36  
Old February 13, 2009, 11:01 AM
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I don't understand why some of you think that playing T20 hurts your ability to play any other form of cricket.

Shane Warne captained the rajasthan team to the IPL victory. Are you telling me that he won't know how to play tests anymore if he wasn't retired?

Why does India have the same opening pair in T20 and Tests and very successful at that nonetheless.

For Shaun Marsh, T20 has led him to be in teh ODI squad and a good showing there will get him into the test squad.

Look at Rafique, the one consistant player for us in Test and ODI and he did very well in the ICL tournament.

T20 is not just a hit and miss game. A good player will always perform consistantly, no matter what the format. Besides if the better team on paper always one in every sport whats the point of playing? The superbowl is a bigger draw than the MLB or NBA because the best of 7 gets boring (but it does usually ensure that the better team wins). Worldcup soccer is great because one match can turn the tournament upside down. T20 brings that excitement to cricket.

I love test as much as the next guy but I think this hatred toward T20 is unfounded.
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  #37  
Old February 13, 2009, 11:48 AM
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Again Guys for the 100th time, BD is different than the rest of the top nations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire_x86
Find me a player who suddenly forgot how to play real cricket after playing few T20 tournaments.
The players must know how to play real cricket first. Had our players knew how to play real cricket then we would not be having this discussion. Our results would be much better than 1 win (alleged), 1 draw. Look at our average age. 22/23?

Top nations 20-23 year olds learn how to play real cricket from their domestic cricket structure. Only the very few god-gifted ones (which we don't have) who have some brains get in to a test side. We are learning through test matches. right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynman
Look at Rafique, the one consistant player for us in Test and ODI and he did very well in the ICL tournament.
Too many holes. 1st, he is a bowler, bats at 7/8. To be good at test a team has to be good in batting.

"T20 is not just a hit and miss game. A good player will always perform consistantly, no matter what the format." Correct. Good player meaning he is good in test first. We don't have that. Our best player Ash averages 23. "Besides if the better team on paper always one in every sport whats the point of playing?" Are we sure we are talking about cricket here? Only ten teams play cricket. The rest just participate on WCs. "The superbowl is a bigger draw than the MLB or NBA because the best of 7 gets boring (but it does usually ensure that the better team wins). Worldcup soccer is great because one match can turn the tournament upside down. T20 brings that excitement to cricket." Excitement to some which is fine with me. But if this excitement harms the growth of Bangladesh's cricket then I have a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynman
I love test as much as the next guy but I think this hatred toward T20 is unfounded.
If the T20 hurts my interest (hampers test growth of Bangladesh - even slows it down a bit), I will voice my displeasure. Not for once I have said anything against Australia, India, NZ, SL, Pakistan, SA, England or WI playing T20. Or the T20 WC. My problem is asking BCB to emphasis on T20 is dead wrong (hurts more than helps (if any) for our future).

++++
I am still waiting for a scenario where T20 can help BD improve in Test. I must be a fool not to get this.
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  #38  
Old February 13, 2009, 12:09 PM
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Mijan bhai,
the young generation are like Ashraful(care free) while we are like HB (more conservative). They did not feel the pain of missing out in Kenya. They found out we are test nation and hence comparable with Aussi, WI, Ind.
So give up.
Ideally I would like BCB to forfiet T20 WC or send a team of has been or near men (i.e a team without Sakib, Mushy, Mash, Robin, Rajib, Rubel, Nayeem, Tamim, Rakib, Riyad). Ash can play (it would not make any difference)
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  #39  
Old February 13, 2009, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BANFAN
Our recent performances suggest, even if we didn't win any tests but we are performing much better than the early days. We must have been boosted by the self belief gained from ODI wins into tests.
Really? What time frame you would suggest as recent? After WC2007? Don't just say home games only. We did score 400 in our first innings of test history. 2003/04 we performed at much higher level in test. Cause those players were not T20 type players nor did they have (self-belief gained from) much ODI wins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BANFAN
If you want to win in any sports competition, you need to master agressiveness to be able to convert marginal chances into victory. Wars/battles aren't won by deffensive techniques/tactics, which are also important as a part of over all strategy. But victory only comes through measured agressive actions. That T20 can teach our players to win the battles with bat & ball.
Hello, what's up!! "Offense gets the glory and defense wins championship." Proven fact. All sports (some exceptions are there but that is the once in a blue moon). Beamer, here loves the aggressiveness, however, he can tell you how Steelers won the championship (superbowl) two weeks back. We can talk about this on some other thread.
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  #40  
Old February 13, 2009, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebest
Mijan bhai,
the young generation are like Ashraful(care free) while we are like HB (more conservative). They did not feel the pain of missing out in Kenya. They found out we are test nation and hence comparable with Aussi, WI, Ind.
So give up.
Ideally I would like BCB to forfiet T20 WC or send a team of has been or near men (i.e a team without Sakib, Mushy, Mash, Robin, Rajib, Rubel, Nayeem, Tamim, Rakib, Riyad). Ash can play (it would not make any difference)
LOL, Shakil bhaia, speak for yourself. I am only 27 year old and Almighty Lord has stopped my aging.

The only reason I got in to this thread because the thread starter is close to our age and having to experience the 70s cricket. I love the forfiet idea. These boys are our core. Send them to Australia, SA, NZ or England for three months every year. In three years time, we will compete in all format T20 included.
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  #41  
Old February 13, 2009, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
BANFAN and others,
Give me one situation, in the history of the game or even hypothetically (last 20 overs), where T20 experience can help in Test for BD. Try me, I am open to change my opinion as long as you have sound logic. Warning: I will disect your hypothesis pretty badly so make sure your "what-if" is a good one.

If you can't why all this arguement?
T_E

The trend shows clearly that Test cricket has become more and more aggressive lately between competing teams. Now, if that is due to the introduction of 20/20 or just because of the natural evolution of the game, can be debated ad nauseam and will be debated. However, if you tell me that the advent of ODI's in the past twenty years haven't made any difference in the way test cricket is being played, then I am afraid, there is not much room to debate. Draws have dwindled, 4+ RR's a day became the norm and thats clearly because of the evolution of ODI games carried itself over to the Test matches. Clearly ODI's have made an impact on Tests. Now, has 20/20 made an impact in tests? I will say maybe not, yet, since the sampling period is short, but down the road, it will influence Test matches. It is inevitable. Lately, I have already seen record attempts of run chases in fourth innings with success. I have already seen Switch hitting in tests. What may have been eyesore to purists a decade ago, will be applauded, because reality dictates that adaptation of current trends coupled with economic factors will be the difference between staying afloat or sink. There is no question that we have to play 20/20. There will be less and less tests played in future, even less for us ( money again ) and if we shut ourselves out from 20/20's, not only would we suffer monetarily ( players and boards ), but also, we would detach ourselves from the evolving game.

I said in the other thread to you that the crawl-walk- sprint scenario that you envisioned, will not be afforded to us, and we would have to learn everything on the fly, that includes playing 20/20's regularly. Its not so much about the shots but it is also about the mindset. Every yougster should be afforded by our board to compete in domestic 20/20 leagues just as every youngster from other nations will do so. In ten years time when they face each other in an intl event, at least they would start even on mindset.

Hey you know what, if you introduce general IT/computer based basic lessons to two kids from Seventh grade, one from BD, and another say from US, you teach them the current knowledge of today. Now, if our BD kid is given a lecture on '80s style IBM box as a starter, as opposed to the US kid who gets introduced to todays version, guess who will get a kick start? We don't tell BD kid ( lets call him Fazal ) that 2009 version will be availbale to you in Seventeen years from now! No. In this world, he has no chance to compete globally, if he is a decade behind.
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  #42  
Old February 13, 2009, 12:46 PM
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Tests > T20s > ODIs. Verdict: ODIs must die.
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  #43  
Old February 13, 2009, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AsifTheManRahman
Tests > T20s > ODIs. Verdict: ODIs must die.
ODI must not die.
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  #44  
Old February 13, 2009, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AsifTheManRahman
Tests > T20s > ODIs. Verdict: ODIs must die.
Why? All this three formats looks very good.
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  #45  
Old February 13, 2009, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
Again Guys for the 100th time, BD is different than the rest of the top nations.
You can't say that in a real game and ask for handicap. In international cricket our players have to compete against the players who are developing their games in all 3 formats simultaneously.

Quote:
I am still waiting for a scenario where T20 can help BD improve in Test. I must be a fool not to get this.
There's no proof, only speculation (Just like you're speculating demise of our players' limited cricketing ability from playing T20.)

Good T20 performance
-> Improved batting/bowling skills in limited over cricket + confidence
-> Better ODI performance
-> Improved innings building ability in batting + confidence
-> Improved Test performance

Here's where I stand about T20: Test and longer version cricket should always be #1 priority. But I couldn't care less if T20 replaces ODI as #2 priority.
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  #46  
Old February 13, 2009, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MohammedC
ODI must not die.
I won't be too sad if it dies. It's the worst of all 3 formats when it comes to shielding mediocrity.
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  #47  
Old February 13, 2009, 01:02 PM
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BANFAN..Tremendous thinking on your part. I am impressed.
Spitty..He is always a step ahead.
the best ..I am older than you guys. Have seen and lived through early nineties, missing WC's etc..But, I am a realist and a test cricket purist to the core, but willing to adapt to every situation in cricket and maybe in life.
T_E ..Steelers are the most "agressive" defense around !
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  #48  
Old February 13, 2009, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire_x86
You can't say that in a real game and ask for handicap. In international cricket our players have to compete against the players who are developing their games in all 3 formats simultaneously.
I didn't ask for handicap. I am talking about BD cricket. My interest lies around BD cricket. My players donot know the T of Test cricket. They don't know how to bat. They don't have the mindset on how to bat. They may be trying to learn but they are still not there. Whereas, international players (top 8) already knows that when they get a test call. T20 will not effect them to forget how to play test. Bd players who don't know how to bat in test will have a negative impact if they play more T20 cricket. Why can't you understand this simply fact? There is no assumptions here. Pure fact. Which BD player knows how to bat in Test format? Ash? I wish. He has an average of 23.

Intl players and BD players are not comparable because of their knowledge of the game in the longer version.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire_x86
There's no proof, only speculation (Just like you're speculating demise of our players' limited cricketing ability from playing T20.)

Good T20 performance
-> Improved batting/bowling skills in limited over cricket + confidence
-> Better ODI performance
-> Improved innings building ability in batting + confidence
-> Improved Test performance
lol, from T20, players will learn how to improve batting and build innings for ODI/test games? I am totally lost. A format that requires less technique and more ura-dhura batting will teach BD players how to bat?

I thought innings building is learnt in the longer version of the game which requires patience. Patience and T20 batting doesn't sit well together.
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  #49  
Old February 13, 2009, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
Really? What time frame you would suggest as recent? After WC2007? Don't just say home games only. We did score 400 in our first innings of test history. 2003/04 we performed at much higher level in test. Cause those players were not T20 type players nor did they have (self-belief gained from) much ODI wins.
TE, consider the last few home test series where we actually had a few close contests. These tests were definitely improved performances. Wheather they made 400 or not, that's not a comparison, comparison is in relation to the opponent team in that match. That gives a better picture of improvement or competitive attitude.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
Hello, what's up!! "Offense gets the glory and defense wins championship." Proven fact. All sports (some exceptions are there but that is the once in a blue moon). Beamer, here loves the aggressiveness, however, he can tell you how Steelers won the championship (superbowl) two weeks back. We can talk about this on some other thread.
Com'n TE, What you are telling is something rare & exceptional.

Footbal: you may defend whole life, but if you don't attackl no golas no victory.
Basketball: No Attack, no Basket no victory
Hockey: same
Take any game
.....

Eeven Kabadi ....

You never win by only defending. But you may win by only attacking as well. Atacking is the only way to victory in war and all outdoor sports.

To win by defending, you have to depend on the mercy of the opponent to lose by themselves, by same side goals or by throwing away wickets or by some nonsensical act.

To master the art of attack in cricket, one must play T20. Be it with bat or ball.

[NB: I hope to give you the situation in a match where T20 skills have worked or would work to make a decision. But have to spend some time with stats guru to get the data. I will insh-Allah, but it might take some time.]
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  #50  
Old February 13, 2009, 02:30 PM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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Join Date: September 16, 2004
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In NFL and NBA without Realy Really good defence, you cannot win in playoffs and beyond when the opponent is stonger. This is universally known among fans of these two league .

Teams even won all the way with very solid defence and below par offnece in NFL (Baltimore Ravens when they won super ball for example) and NBA (Detoit for example).

Cricket "may" or "may not" be different. But lets not fabricate facts for the sake of just trying to prove our point.
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Last edited by Fazal; February 13, 2009 at 02:39 PM..
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