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  #1  
Old March 9, 2009, 09:58 PM
ehteshamul ehteshamul is offline
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Default Opening Pair and Top Order Concerns – Solution

OPENING PAIR AND TOP ORDER CONCERNS – SOLUTION

Brittle Opening pair and Top order tops the list of present concerns of Tigers.

The exodus of talented cricketers like Aftab, Kapali to ICL has made matters worse.

It goes to credit of Jamie Siddons that he has been able to bring about marked improvements in Tamim , Saqib, Raqib as far as batting is concerned though in the past few series Tamim ‘s form has taken a nose dive and a real worry for Tigers and Fans alike.

Imrul the new rookie opener on whom a lot was expected was not able to live up to promise in the tour to South Africa forcing the selectors to try Zunaed back to opening slot where he was a complete failure.

One can’t blame the Selectors as they did not have too many options.

It may be worth mentioning here that while Imrul, Tamim pair was on Zunaed did not do anything significant but he did not do anything too bad either in no3 slot. At least he was able to prolong his stay.

Currently we do not have a dependable opening partner for Tamim and Imrul should not be judged just by South African performance. In his very first major Series he was exposed to the menacing Pace battery of Steyn,Morkel, Ntini, Zondeki. Poor Guy short of match experience he easily succumbed.

With what we saw in the past few series it may be a good idea to bring back Imrul to open with Tamim.

Mehrab is a compact player and plays reasonable good shots. Has the ability to graft and build . Should be able to fill the slot of No 3 or Maybe one last chance for Junaed. No3 is indeed a tricky situation to fill for Tigers.

Number 4 should be Raqib who has regained his form and presently
the most solid player.

The most ridiculous thing that Tiger management has done was playing the captain at No3 and No 4 when he was showing such indifferent form.

Most cricket teams irrespective of the star value plays an out of form player down the order so that slowly and gradually he regains his confidence and form and then reverted to suitable position for which I think 5 or 6 would be an appropriate that will allow him to play his natural game.

We all know if the opening pair fails it puts a lot of pressure on the top Order( 3,4) that rubs subsequently on the remainder batsmen.

One should not expect Raqib, Saqib and Mashrafee to bail out the team every time our Opening pair and top order collapses.

The above concerns are really a big worry. What can our bowler do if the team cannot post a defendable total?

We have not seen any improvements in the past few series ( Opening Pair and top orderwise) and with consistent collapse of Opening and top order the bowlers will soon get disheartened and lose heart to deliver telling blows to their opponents and all the good work of Champaka will die out.

Siddons with so many concerns in the team- Opening Pair,Top Order, Fielding – specially slip position should immediately seek a Batting consultant to lessen his responsibilities and the three that comes to mind are :

Sourav Ganguly ( best option as being a bengali he would be able to communicate easily with our batsmen).

Or Matthew Hayden ( recently retired).

Or Mahela Jayawardene ( who also have retired).

BCB Bhaiyyas please for God sake get hold of the one of the aforementioned batting Masters as a Batting coach/Consultant .

We do appreciate your wise decision to select Champak Ramanayake as Bowling Coach whose efforts are already showing good results in a short span which everyone can see.

If Bangladesh can have a competent Batting Coach ( No offense to Siddons he can continue as a Head Coach till his tenure)/Consultant we will be able to develop into force to reckon with.

God bless our Tigers! We are with you through thick and thin.
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  #2  
Old March 9, 2009, 11:55 PM
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Ok, I'll bite. Ehteshamul, you had me until the last part. Why when Siddons is a batting specialist would he need to get another batting coach? To wit, this is typically what a coach would do:
1) Watch eat batsman at the nets, have him taped
2) Have Nasy run stats analysis on past dismissals, runs scored etc.
3) Try and co-relate what he has seen with what the #s suggest and formulate some hypothesis. These would obviously be informed by overall team strategy and opponent's SWOTs and tendencies.
4) Have a 1-v-1 with the batsman to see if this hypothesis hold water and if certain game plans can be developed
5) Go to nets and have elements of the game plan practiced until muscle memory is developed.
6) Help batsmen deploy the strategy during match and measure and record
7) Repeat 1-6 as needed or as opponent adjusts.

Now from all accounts, Jamie is already doing that. Shakib has said that Siddon's has helped him play pace better and watching his improved proficiency pulling and hooking has born that out. Siddons has said he's working on changing Ash's off-side stroke play - Ash is just too dumb to implement it. It's obvious to anyone who's been watching that Tamim's batsman ship is improving and he's developing a leg side game other than hoiks (still needs to get better at on side horiz. bat shots). Coach can only suggest and teach - the players have to implement it.

Now what do you suggest a Haydos (whose approach is predicated on power and superior reach), Jaya (who's got a touch game) going to offer on top of that? Ganguly??? No comment. What additional responsibilities would these coaches perform that Siddons is not doing? They are not even certified coaches and have NOT expressed any interest in coaching to date.

Offering the Ramanayeke example is not pertinent. As mentioned before Jamie is a batting coach and hence his awareness of the nuances of wrist position, back arch, cadence of run up, etc might not be sufficient.

My take: while you've managed to rehash the predicament/options of our opening slots capably, you have not offered any realistic ideas for a solution.
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  #3  
Old March 10, 2009, 12:26 AM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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current opening options and reasons why they're name is up there:

- imrul (inform and has been consistent this DPL, was consistent in last years NCL list A's)
- NI (was fairly consistent in the NCL list A's this season, experience)
- talukder (inform, fairly consistent, tamim's opening partner this DPL)
- mithun (somewhat consistent, looks to have great hitting ability, can keep as well)
- nazmus sadat (fairly consistent this DPL, pretty consistent in list A's his whole career, big hitter, can bowl a bit)

others:
- junaid (tamim's main partner over the last year)
- mehrab (someone recently tried by the selectors)
- JO (the former opener)
- naeem (former u19 opener, fighting for a spot in the team especially if they bring in another spinner)
- riyad (opened in a warm-up in Oz, fighting for a spot in the team and this might be his chance to keep that spot)

as for a specialist batting coach, i'm not against that idea as siddons himself has said he's got too much on his plate atm and wouldn't mind a batting coach. i guess the other thing to consider would be to make siddons the batting coach and bring someone else in as the head coach.

the selectors have plenty of options, though it's probably not likely that many if any of them will work. the only thing to do atm imo is to test out the ones who haven't already been tested (in a careful and responsible manner) and further test the ones who haven't been given much of a run. as said siddons has been a specialist batting coach before and even if he has too much on his plate he'd be able to give enough advice to fix some of the issues so it's best just to test the options, and help develop the players, obviously none are ready for the spot atm.
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  #4  
Old March 10, 2009, 12:26 AM
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Easy solution to the opening problem - bring in Javed Omar to fill in 'til we find a decent opner to partner Tamim.
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  #5  
Old March 10, 2009, 12:32 AM
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Only Talking about Limited Overs Cricket here

Maybe the pitches had some role in futility of the batsmen? Only a handful of Batsmen have been able to Dictate the Bowling in ODI's on our Turf, Taylor, Oram (Twice), Shakib (Once), Ash (Once).

For Such a Young team, playing on Pitches were 180-210 are Considered Winning Totals and 250 being near impossible without Blind Hitting is a tough task. Especially when your batting 1st your always think of a 250 score, when in reality going @ 3.5-4 runs an over would have been more than Sufficient has some effect in them struggling.

The thing is who knows how the pitch is gonna be in the Pakistan Series, The Curator might decide to have better bounce or leave it as status quo.
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  #6  
Old March 10, 2009, 01:05 AM
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First off... Mahela din't retire... he just resigned captaincy....

Top order is a serious problem... what we need to understand is.. our (local) level of cricket and international level of cricket is very far....Ash is a smart example... even though he is a proven failure... but he did worst at opening and number 3 position... batting consultant is a smart idea... but I just don't get why we have head batting coach and we cant see much of an improvement???

Anyways... since Tamim is our automatic... I would give Imrul a chance... and repalcing him in t/20 with Mithun...One down is a very tricky position... I wanna play Mahmudullah there... I personally feel he is being wasted down the order.... followed by Rock and MR.... Ash @ number 6 and Shakib to follow....

T/20

Tamim
Mithun
Junaid
Ash
Shakib
Naeem
Mashrafe
Shuvo
Razzaq
Rasel
Rubel

ODI

Tamim
Imrul
Mahmudullah
Rakibul
Mushfiq
Ash
Shakib
Mashrafe
Razzaq
Rasel
Rubel
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  #7  
Old March 10, 2009, 01:06 AM
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Rifat Rifat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cricket_king
Easy solution to the opening problem - bring in Javed Omar to fill in 'til we find a decent opner to partner Tamim.
ya, i miss Javed Omar too...too bad he is already out of the scene and also too bad bringing him out of nowhere will actually make things worse! unless he can somehow get to play in A team or against some excellent quality oppostition get in strong batting form, i do not mind recalling him back!

my thinking/assumption behind Tamim's recent failure: Tamim is simply not an opening batsmen! have Mehrab jr. and Kayes open. it will work out

point to support this argument: very rarely our opening partnership gets past 10 overs in all formats of the game, specially tests!

*my suggestion for Tests:

Kayes/Naeem Islam
Mehrab jr.
Junaed
Tamim
Shakib
Rahim
Rakibul Hasan
Ashraful
Mortaza
Enamul Haque jr./Shahadat(situation/form depending!)
Robin

for ODI(by no choice, i have to try Tamim/Islam combo)

Tamim
Naeem Islam
Junaed
Shakib
Rakib
Ashraful
Rahim
Mahmudullah
Mortaza
Nazmul hossain
Rubel Hossain

for T20 ???? i am not an T20 Expert, ask other BanglaCricket pundits

and yes! if Rasel is fit and on form, why not try him too, including tests, ODI's and T20s

Last edited by Rifat; March 10, 2009 at 01:24 AM.. Reason: lol i keep editing :D
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  #8  
Old March 10, 2009, 01:23 AM
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Yeah, that old batting problem. I really don't think a specialist batting consultent will do much. As razab said, Siddons is a batting coach and he's working on our batting. And it's not as if our batsmen don't know how to bat. They just don't know how to "Implement". In my mind, we need is a counsellor, who will build and shape our player's attitude and mindset in a healthy and scientific way.

Back in 2000, when Saurav and John first started working on the India team, they had a "choker" and a "dependent on tendulker" team to start with. They hired a counsellor to break their players out of those habits and see where they are now. I don't see why we don't do that.
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  #9  
Old March 10, 2009, 03:54 AM
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It is really worrying to see Tamim/Junaed not finding their form during the League And I dont get why. The pitches were not that bad as we understand but the nationals are playing pretty bad. Imrul certainly stands out with his consistency. I think he should come back... I mean I would rather have an in-form guy than players like Junaed/Mehrab who are struggling pretty bad. Too many changes are not too good as we have had 30 players in ODIs in the last 2 years. But if we have Tamim also out of form,, we are pretty doomed. Man,, when can we have a team where 50 percent of the "talented" players are in form !!!
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  #10  
Old March 10, 2009, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehteshamul
OPENING PAIR AND TOP ORDER CONCERNS – SOLUTION

Brittle Opening pair and Top order tops the list of present concerns of Tigers.

The exodus of talented cricketers like Aftab, Kapali to ICL has made matters worse.

....
I can argue that this is dead wrong. Would continue only if you want me to. One of the AAA is still there. Upon his exit Bd would be strongest and consistant as ever in all format.
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  #11  
Old March 10, 2009, 09:26 AM
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Nice one Robin.
Waiting for your Part III of the series....

Bowling Solution.
Keep up the good work.
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  #12  
Old March 10, 2009, 10:22 AM
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i wanna bat open........
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  #13  
Old March 10, 2009, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nadim 98
i wanna bat open........
unless u have any connection with BCB you are out of luck bro
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  #14  
Old March 10, 2009, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nadim 98
i wanna bat open........
unless you can lose your wicket in the first 3 overs....u are out of luck nadim.
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  #15  
Old March 10, 2009, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nadim 98
i wanna bat open........
Well, bat close for a while kiddo.
wait till you turn 20, and then get in the team as a 16 year old....
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  #16  
Old March 10, 2009, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabz
Well, bat close for a while kiddo.
wait till you turn 20, and then get in the team as a 16 year old....
Ar dosh khali amar jay ami polapain noshto kori? jottoshob. By the way, wrist bone testing ki bondho hoiya gasey? Naki tar'o "cheat" ber hoiye gasey? I can not keep up with latest technology and the counterfeits.
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  #17  
Old March 10, 2009, 02:55 PM
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what is wrong with riyad or naeem opening with the bat
they are both steady batsman and give value to their wickets
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  #18  
Old March 10, 2009, 04:35 PM
sbsash sbsash is offline
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I would like Mehrab jr with Tamim to open for tests and Naeem to open with Tamim in ODIs.

Tests...
1.Tamim
2.Mehrab jr
3.Junaid
4.Rokib
5.Ash
6.Sakib
7.Mushfiq
8.Naeem
9.Mashrafe
10.Shahadat
11.Mahbubul/Rubel/Nazmul

ODI...
1.Tamim
2.Naeem
3.Mehrab jr
4.Rokib
5.Ash
6.Sakib
7.Mushfiq
8.Mahmadulla
9.Mashrafe
10.Rasel/Shahadat/Nazmul/Mahbubul/Rubel
11.Rasel/Shahadat/Nazmul/Mahbubul/Rubel

20/20...
1.Tamim
2.Junaid
3.Ash
4.Mehrab jr
5.Rokib
6.Sakib
7.Mushfiq
8.Naeem
9.Mashrafe
10.Rasel/Shahadat/Nazmul/Mahbubul/Rubel
11.Rasel/Shahadat/Nazmul/Mahbubul/Rubel

Last edited by sbsash; March 10, 2009 at 04:40 PM..
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  #19  
Old March 10, 2009, 05:18 PM
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Rifat Rifat is offline
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Tamim is a great batsmen but not opening material, sorry
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  #20  
Old March 10, 2009, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rifat
Tamim is a great batsmen but not opening material, sorry
what do u mean he's been a successful opener forever excluding the past 5 months
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  #21  
Old March 10, 2009, 06:44 PM
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our problem is Siddon. Its been long enough in fact its been since he became BD coach..I don't remember any significant opening partnership in any of the series. (of course I am ignoring the odds such as the partnership between Tamim and Zunaid against NZ in NZ)

We have tried enough AUSSIES, SA's , British. its time for us to move on to our Kind. BCB should appoint a Srilankan Coach or Indian Coach. I don't want Bangali coach because there will be partiality. and not any Pakistani because they are all high tempered when comes to batting.

and for a record We can have two batting coaches from subcontinent for the amount of money Siddon is taking from BCB.
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  #22  
Old March 10, 2009, 06:54 PM
ehteshamul ehteshamul is offline
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Default Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabz
Nice one Robin.
Waiting for your Part III of the series....

Bowling Solution.
Keep up the good work.
Thanks Rabz Bhaiyya for your kind appreciation.

I really like inputs from readers as they see from their perspective.

It enriches the thread content and in a small or big way we all become more informed and knowledegable on the topic which is what a forum is all about.

Cheers!
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  #23  
Old March 10, 2009, 07:48 PM
ehteshamul ehteshamul is offline
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Default Good observation and insights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
current opening options and reasons why they're name is up there:

- imrul (inform and has been consistent this DPL, was consistent in last years NCL list A's)
- NI (was fairly consistent in the NCL list A's this season, experience)
- talukder (inform, fairly consistent, tamim's opening partner this DPL)
- mithun (somewhat consistent, looks to have great hitting ability, can keep as well)
- nazmus sadat (fairly consistent this DPL, pretty consistent in list A's his whole career, big hitter, can bowl a bit)

others:
- junaid (tamim's main partner over the last year)
- mehrab (someone recently tried by the selectors)
- JO (the former opener)
- naeem (former u19 opener, fighting for a spot in the team especially if they bring in another spinner)
- riyad (opened in a warm-up in Oz, fighting for a spot in the team and this might be his chance to keep that spot)

as for a specialist batting coach, i'm not against that idea as siddons himself has said he's got too much on his plate atm and wouldn't mind a batting coach. i guess the other thing to consider would be to make siddons the batting coach and bring someone else in as the head coach.

the selectors have plenty of options, though it's probably not likely that many if any of them will work. the only thing to do atm imo is to test out the ones who haven't already been tested (in a careful and responsible manner) and further test the ones who haven't been given much of a run. as said siddons has been a specialist batting coach before and even if he has too much on his plate he'd be able to give enough advice to fix some of the issues so it's best just to test the options, and help develop the players, obviously none are ready for the spot atm.
Hello Gowza Bhaiyya,

Very good observation and insights.

I am amazed at your knowledge of BD Cricket potential and prospective cricketers
which really helps to enrich thread and post content and benefit readers.

Thanks and Cheers!

Robin!
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  #24  
Old March 10, 2009, 07:51 PM
ehteshamul ehteshamul is offline
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Default Interesting observations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Umar
our problem is Siddon. Its been long enough in fact its been since he became BD coach..I don't remember any significant opening partnership in any of the series. (of course I am ignoring the odds such as the partnership between Tamim and Zunaid against NZ in NZ)

We have tried enough AUSSIES, SA's , British. its time for us to move on to our Kind. BCB should appoint a Srilankan Coach or Indian Coach. I don't want Bangali coach because there will be partiality. and not any Pakistani because they are all high tempered when comes to batting.

and for a record We can have two batting coaches from subcontinent for the amount of money Siddon is taking from BCB.
Hello Umar Bhaiyya,

Interesting observations.

Food for thought for our cricket management.

Cheers!
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  #25  
Old March 10, 2009, 08:01 PM
ehteshamul ehteshamul is offline
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Default Good Selection

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbsash
I would like Mehrab jr with Tamim to open for tests and Naeem to open with Tamim in ODIs.

Tests...
1.Tamim
2.Mehrab jr
3.Junaid
4.Rokib
5.Ash
6.Sakib
7.Mushfiq
8.Naeem
9.Mashrafe
10.Shahadat
11.Mahbubul/Rubel/Nazmul

ODI...
1.Tamim
2.Naeem
3.Mehrab jr
4.Rokib
5.Ash
6.Sakib
7.Mushfiq
8.Mahmadulla
9.Mashrafe
10.Rasel/Shahadat/Nazmul/Mahbubul/Rubel
11.Rasel/Shahadat/Nazmul/Mahbubul/Rubel

20/20...
1.Tamim
2.Junaid
3.Ash
4.Mehrab jr
5.Rokib
6.Sakib
7.Mushfiq
8.Naeem
9.Mashrafe
10.Rasel/Shahadat/Nazmul/Mahbubul/Rubel
11.Rasel/Shahadat/Nazmul/Mahbubul/Rubel
Hello sbsash Bhaiyya,

Good selection for both ODI AND TEST.

My only objection is considering Nayeem as a One day opener.

He has to gradually climb up the ladder.

He looks compact and steady and who knows with time and more exposure he might be a solution to our opening dilemma

I appreciate your inputs.

Thanks and cheers!
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